Necromancer not playable anymore in pvp

Utt of the Freezing Tomb

As said in the title, an overhaul of the Necromancer would be important for good balancing.

After many nerfs to the necromancer, this class is no longer playable in pvp, let's take a look at the skills in more depth.

GRAVE LORD:
-After the nerf of the colossus magic version which stuns only at the end of the 3 damage and a nerve of damage this spell is totally useless in pvp
-The blastbone is so slow that it manages to get stuck on its own and/or cannot run to his target.
-Boneyard is definitly useless, no one use it
-Skeletal Mage and both morph deal no damage in pvp
-Mystic syphon is a pve skill

BONE TYRANT
-Goliath is pretty bad, when you using it everyone run away for 20 second till end
-Scythe and both morph should apply offbalance (not always the stam one)
-Totem: ranged morph is useless no one use it.... other morph is fine but its a defensive stun

LIVING DEATH
-Resurect ult cost too high.. let the morph that can revive ally + restore ressource with high cost.... second morph should cost less but it resurect only corps to make 3 blastbones
-Render flesh and both morph: Why it apply minor defile permantly? Honor the dead haven't malus, Dragon blood haven't malus, Artic wind too, arcanist heal too
-Expunge cost to high HP, in pvp you can't use it outnumbered or you'll take damage + 2k hp less
-Life amid death: change the skill like healing ritual(templar aoe heal) you loosing too much time to cast it at your position etc even with automatic setting
-Spirit mender and both morph: please add more heal from thoses skill, it heal actually nothing
-Restoring tether and both morph : this skill is garbage 80% of time, 1 tree or 1 wall or anything that break LOS destroy this skill

Conclusion:
1-Blastbone should be like Deepfissure from warden (cast the skill and after X second it explose in front of you
2-Buff skeletal mage damage
3-Make magicka scythe with offbalance
4-Reduce the cost of resurect ult (Resurect only blastbone)
5-Make totem that stun instantly and 1 morph after 2 second, so player can choose between defensive or offensive stun
6-Remove Minor defile from Render Flesh
7-Modify the ressource of Expunge and both morph to your highter stats
8-Make Spirit mender great again.....
9-Make restoring tether that consume a corps within X meters without choosing a corps OR make tether that can't be breaked by LOS
10-Problem of necromancer is the corps system, arcanist system is super fine you regen you crux without doing anything, just use skills etc, Corps survive only 6 second and you have to select it
11-Necromancer has to spend all his time to recast all buff always exemple (Armor buff, mender, blastbone, mage etc to get corps) this class hasn't any instant stun or gapcloser
12-Make Colossus that stun at first damage tick



No one playing necromancer anymore in pvp
Its actually not the best tank/healer/dd in pve too

ArchMikem

So does this mean no more Necro Harmony Bombers? Cause if yes then I'm happy.

OtarTheMad

ArchMikem wrote: »

So does this mean no more Necro Harmony Bombers? Cause if yes then I'm happy.

Harmony bombers haven’t been a thing for a while, they nerfed graveyard and harmony.

Unfortunately, while harmony bombers were indeed annoying it was just about the only play style Magcro had. Now it’s basically plaguebreak/vicious death build but any class can do that build and probably do it much better.

jerj6925

Templar class has been all but destroyed in pvp, they will never get to play in their former glory. Don't waste time hoping they will undo anything done to necromancer class, welcome to the beaten red headed step child class.

Tyrant_Tim

You should check out the buff to Venom Skull, it’s hitting almost a 3rd harder than Wrecking Blow now with its 50% increase.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it deals with PvP.

Thank you for your understanding

mmtaniac

Goliath is good defense i would like too see similiar thing on templar but our defense ability is cast time healing per 8seconds. We don't have anything that can scary enemy except jabs ,but not something that can give us time to regen health in peace maybe only stuns but still stuns can be broken.

Luckylancer

mmtaniac wrote: »

Goliath is good defense i would like too see similiar thing on templar but our defense ability is cast time healing per 8seconds. We don't have anything that can scary enemy except jabs ,but not something that can give us time to regen health in peace maybe only stuns but still stuns can be broken.

You dont want to see something similar on templar because goliath is just 20 second stalemate. It wont win you any fight and it will prolong any losing fight last longer for you.

JerBearESO

Blastbones can be unreliable, but it's current mechanic as a seeking pet is very unique. Please do not advocate the loss of this mechanic, though it's buggy coding does need further improvement.

mb10

Necromancer is very disappointing
The spammable skulls are so clunky and slow as well and yeah anything you summon is practically useless.
Like you said mage and archer do literally no damage and the healer doesnt heal anything but the 10% reduction is nice.

The summons cant even take damage like the Sorc summons do, at least that would mean they defend you a bit.

But this is a classic case of not being able to seperate PVE from PVP by the devs.

SaffronCitrusflower

jerj6925 wrote: »

Templar class has been all but destroyed in pvp, they will never get to play in their former glory. Don't waste time hoping they will undo anything done to necromancer class, welcome to the beaten red headed step child class.

Ya, templar is still way worse off than necromancer. U35 gutted templar so severely they'll likely never recover.

xFocused

mb10 wrote: »

Necromancer is very disappointing
The spammable skulls are so clunky and slow as well and yeah anything you summon is practically useless.
Like you said mage and archer do literally no damage and the healer doesnt heal anything but the 10% reduction is nice.

The summons cant even take damage like the Sorc summons do, at least that would mean they defend you a bit.

But this is a classic case of not being able to seperate PVE from PVP by the devs.

I miss my Cro. I've tried using it for solo bombs without the harmony/boneyard setup and it just hits like a wet noodle. It's good for tanking and heals but damage, ehh..I've seen a handful of decent 1vx builds but even then, just a small handful of them. Cro used to be a outstanding class, dunno why it got nerfed so hard

xylena_lazarow

JerBearESO wrote: »

Blastbones can be unreliable, but it's current mechanic as a seeking pet is very unique. Please do not advocate the loss of this mechanic, though it's buggy coding does need further improvement.

Warden's Cliff Racer is a seeking pet that's at least functional. Why they couldn't make Blastbones work similarly?

JerBearESO

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

Blastbones can be unreliable, but it's current mechanic as a seeking pet is very unique. Please do not advocate the loss of this mechanic, though it's buggy coding does need further improvement.

Warden's Cliff Racer is a seeking pet that's at least functional. Why they couldn't make Blastbones work similarly?

That's actually just a projectile. It can be rolldodged and is structured very differently. Perhaps blastbones could behave that way with a non dodgable AoE result, but such would require removing the delay it has as it would otherwise jump through walls the majority of the time. So it's more complicated than a quick fix

Edit: for clarity, I don't believe removing it's spawn in delay would be a good direction to go

katorga

xFocused wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Necromancer is very disappointing
The spammable skulls are so clunky and slow as well and yeah anything you summon is practically useless.
Like you said mage and archer do literally no damage and the healer doesnt heal anything but the 10% reduction is nice.

The summons cant even take damage like the Sorc summons do, at least that would mean they defend you a bit.

But this is a classic case of not being able to seperate PVE from PVP by the devs.

I miss my Cro. I've tried using it for solo bombs without the harmony/boneyard setup and it just hits like a wet noodle. It's good for tanking and heals but damage, ehh..I've seen a handful of decent 1vx builds but even then, just a small handful of them. Cro used to be a outstanding class, dunno why it got nerfed so hard

Me too. I've played necro in every MMO since Everquest.

LittlePinkDot

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

jerj6925 wrote: »

Templar class has been all but destroyed in pvp, they will never get to play in their former glory. Don't waste time hoping they will undo anything done to necromancer class, welcome to the beaten red headed step child class.

Ya, templar is still way worse off than necromancer. U35 gutted templar so severely they'll likely never recover.

I just finished my stamplar. She doesn't need to slot jabs.
Binding javelin is a great stun.
So far I really like her.
Radiant oppression is awesome.
Shes nowhere near as bad as my Necro.

Marcus684

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

jerj6925 wrote: »

Templar class has been all but destroyed in pvp, they will never get to play in their former glory. Don't waste time hoping they will undo anything done to necromancer class, welcome to the beaten red headed step child class.

Ya, templar is still way worse off than necromancer. U35 gutted templar so severely they'll likely never recover.

I just finished my stamplar. She doesn't need to slot jabs.
Binding javelin is a great stun.
So far I really like her.
Radiant oppression is awesome.
Shes nowhere near as bad as my Necro.

How dare you?! Templar is complete trash now! Just ask one.

Hailgrim

Yes, the class is absolutely unsuitable for PvP. I would also add these edits:

1) it is necessary to add some buffs for Bone Armor (Brutality/Sorcerer, Berserk, Savagery/Prophecy);
2) Spirit Mender must have a duration of 10/20 seconds to coincide with the rotation cycle of Bone Armor;
3) Dismember should work if there are skills on the panel, not while they are working.

Utt of the Freezing Tomb

Hailgrim wrote: »

Yes, the class is absolutely unsuitable for PvP. I would also add these edits:

1) it is necessary to add some buffs for Bone Armor (Brutality/Sorcerer, Berserk, Savagery/Prophecy);
2) Spirit Mender must have a duration of 10/20 seconds to coincide with the rotation cycle of Bone Armor;
3) Dismember should work if there are skills on the panel, not while they are working.

Read my post about necromancer suggestion

WreckfulAbandon

My 3 favorite classes in PvP are Sorc, Necro, and Templar. I want them all to be at the same level as the other classes. So now that my background and intentions are out of the way...

I'm bookmarking this thread @Utt of the Freezing Tomb. I will be back to talk about Sorc or Templar buffs for every off topic post I see you make in other threads. I get it, Necro needs help. I agree. But stop chiming in Sorc threads or other threads and trying to make it about Necro. You have been warned.

Shadowbinder7

Utt of the Freezing Tomb wrote: »

As said in the title, an overhaul of the Necromancer would be important for good balancing.

After many nerfs to the necromancer, this class is no longer playable in pvp, let's take a look at the skills in more depth.

GRAVE LORD:
-After the nerf of the colossus magic version which stuns only at the end of the 3 damage and a nerve of damage this spell is totally useless in pvp
-The blastbone is so slow that it manages to get stuck on its own and/or cannot run to his target.
-Boneyard is definitly useless, no one use it
-Skeletal Mage and both morph deal no damage in pvp
-Mystic syphon is a pve skill

BONE TYRANT
-Goliath is pretty bad, when you using it everyone run away for 20 second till end
-Scythe and both morph should apply offbalance (not always the stam one)
-Totem: ranged morph is useless no one use it.... other morph is fine but its a defensive stun

LIVING DEATH
-Resurect ult cost too high.. let the morph that can revive ally + restore ressource with high cost.... second morph should cost less but it resurect only corps to make 3 blastbones
-Render flesh and both morph: Why it apply minor defile permantly? Honor the dead haven't malus, Dragon blood haven't malus, Artic wind too, arcanist heal too
-Expunge cost to high HP, in pvp you can't use it outnumbered or you'll take damage + 2k hp less
-Life amid death: change the skill like healing ritual(templar aoe heal) you loosing too much time to cast it at your position etc even with automatic setting
-Spirit mender and both morph: please add more heal from thoses skill, it heal actually nothing
-Restoring tether and both morph : this skill is garbage 80% of time, 1 tree or 1 wall or anything that break LOS destroy this skill

Conclusion:
1-Blastbone should be like Deepfissure from warden (cast the skill and after X second it explose in front of you
2-Buff skeletal mage damage
3-Make magicka scythe with offbalance
4-Reduce the cost of resurect ult (Resurect only blastbone)
5-Make totem that stun instantly and 1 morph after 2 second, so player can choose between defensive or offensive stun
6-Remove Minor defile from Render Flesh
7-Modify the ressource of Expunge and both morph to your highter stats
8-Make Spirit mender great again.....
9-Make restoring tether that consume a corps within X meters without choosing a corps OR make tether that can't be breaked by LOS
10-Problem of necromancer is the corps system, arcanist system is super fine you regen you crux without doing anything, just use skills etc, Corps survive only 6 second and you have to select it
11-Necromancer has to spend all his time to recast all buff always exemple (Armor buff, mender, blastbone, mage etc to get corps) this class hasn't any instant stun or gapcloser
12-Make Colossus that stun at first damage tick



No one playing necromancer anymore in pvp
Its actually not the best tank/healer/dd in pve too

They’re gonna buff in in terms of minor/major buffs in U43. Great. But they haven’t really given it any better capability in pvp

None of the grave lord abilities except blast ones are practical in pvp (except bombing kinda with boneyard). Meanwhile I notice Necro doesn’t even compensate with a super strong heal combo like templar and warden, or damage shield like sorc and arc. Nightblade is similar except it has a healing spammable and can go invi anyways… and dk focuses on ulti regen to keep getting resources/health back, not to mention their dumb translucent blood heal is the strongest heal I believe.

Necro either needs more power in its heals, add minor force to them or something, or… idk just a strong cheaper combo to stay survivable and compensate for clutching on very little class damage in pvp

Shadowbinder7

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You should check out the buff to Venom Skull, it’s hitting almost a 3rd harder than Wrecking Blow now with its 50% increase.

U need grace lord sacrifice for this. Then you have no blastbones for burst

Navaac223

Shadowbinder7 wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You should check out the buff to Venom Skull, it’s hitting almost a 3rd harder than Wrecking Blow now with its 50% increase.

U need grace lord sacrifice for this. Then you have no blastbones for burst

you actually don't need GLS for the 3rd cast but the animation is so bad and hard to time that it's better to just slot d-swing

"Lob an explosive skull at an enemy, dealing 2090 Flame Damage. Every third cast of this ability deals 50% increased damage."

taugrim

I rolled a Necro about a week before Update 41.

When I hit 50 and reached high MMR in BGs, the first 4-5 weeks was a miserable struggle in terms of sustain and killing power.

So I looked at the class mechanics, concluded that Blastbones was the best source of burst and killing power (not DoTs despite the 10% buff), created a Stamcro build around AOE direct damage, and I've been doing well since then.

Necro is still underpowered, and it will still not be meta even when Update 42 comes out with the buffs. The main issue is the design around corpse-targeting abilities. They really limit the class in PVP since we can't control where corpses are formed.

But if you build to not use the corpse-targeting abilities and address the fact that the class lacks obviously buffs for Major Brutality & Sorcery (hint: Rattlecage actually addresses this well), you can get it to be workable. I also highly recommend running Vate staff backbarred as that provides a zero-cost ability that carries a heavy weapon set DoT and debuff.

I get a lot of DMs asking for my build after BGs. It's not OP but having a 4-to-1 kill-to-death ratio on a class everyone says sucks (understandably so) is pretty cool.

Urzigurumash

Yes it is, but only as a Zerg Destroyer, however it still does that rather well, maybe the best.

We all know the usefulness of True Tanks in PvP, but Necro could be the best there too.

But it is true Necro is a very weak Duelist / Brawler right now, and that's 99% of PvP.

On Xbox GH I think there's 4 Necros on the All Alliance Leaderboard. About 1/3 the list is NB. In my view neither is ideal for a class.

Udrath

I made a gimmicky stam necro build. Rallying cry dw front bar, merciless charge back bar. Deadly strike, malacath. Rapid strikes spammable.

Pretty much just proc merciless charge, since it adds 500 damage to each tick of rapid strike and all direct damage. Blast bones into knife throw (ruffian perk added) and spam rapid strike, repeat. So rapid strikes was over 5k tooltip.

It was fun but necro still is not good. Idk maybe someone can take this and make it better.

Urzigurumash

Udrath wrote: »

I made a gimmicky stam necro build. Rallying cry dw front bar, merciless charge back bar. Deadly strike, malacath. Rapid strikes spammable.

Pretty much just proc merciless charge, since it adds 500 damage to each tick of rapid strike and all direct damage. Blast bones into knife throw (ruffian perk added) and spam rapid strike, repeat. So rapid strikes was over 5k tooltip.

It was fun but necro still is not good. Idk maybe someone can take this and make it better.

Sure I can, slot Dark Convergence and go Stampede right into zergs. If you're talking better as in more AP.

Otherwise, whatever Necro offers you is outclassed by Deep Fissure.

Urzigurumash

To be clear, what I mean:

For dealing damage in PvP, the only objective reason to pick Necro is Colossus.

Urzigurumash

Which used to be said about DK, "only good for Leap".

And the class was buffed so that it went from 4 players on the Leaderboard to 1/3 of it.

I used to say Just Buff Leap. These days I'm saying just give Death Knell the bothbar treatment, 80% Crit Chance in Execute is really good for Brawling and Dueling, and it's not going to make Colossus VD Occult Overload any more powerful than it already is, not by much anyhow, Necro is already the best at DC/VD. Backbarrable, Any Weapon, Alpha Strike compliant Brutality was previously achievable only with Potions, bothbar Death Knell and it might seal the deal for us to slot Skeleton.

And it does nothing for Necro's tankiness as this is already supreme or close to it.

divnyi

I'm building ranged bomber DC/VD necro atm. Backbar greatsword DC, frontbar lightning staff VD, balogh x2, Sea-Serpent's Coil.
Since it's 7 light, surviving is a struggle and I (reasonably) lose any 1v1. I did go 64 into HP already to at least get a chance at escaping fights with Elusive Mist.

I want to give a feedback on Grave Lord's Sacrifice:
I really tried to justify losing AoE burst. I really did try to use it. Buffing Colossus is pretty solid, but it's so clunky:

1. You need to be in combat. Why? No other buffs require to be in combat. This thing doesn't do anything but buff.
2. It takes 3 seconds to receive a buff. So if you click it and start spamming you might not receive it at the third gcd even.
3. It doesn't do anything on single target, which is LAME. Blastbones do hit single target.
4. Why it doesn't do anything except buff? Healing, shield, resource restoration, anything?
5. To gain profits from it, you need to use Ricochet Skull. Which isn't bad deal if you are given opportunity to just stand and spam, it's probably one of the most damaging skills, bounce + AoE absolutely slaughters. But it is slow and dodgeable. Thus, it's not fit for my main goal - colossus bombing.
6. It doesn't help that necro doesn't have any other decent damage skills for PvP.

Once I've switched back to Blastbones, crafted Elemental Explosion with Fire + Immobilize & took Elemental Ring, it actually started to feel decently strong.

The chain is Blastbones -> Fire Explosion (2s) -> (backbar) Colossus -> (frontbar) Elemental Rings.

It doesn't feel like I'm doing much in the fights but when I look at the end screen results it's generally a whole lot of kills. Probably a whole lot of kills I didn't even notice because VD just did the job.

divnyi

Oh yeh and another one about Grave Lord's Sacrifice - it doesn't see you when you crouching!