Some of us don’t want to play this game!

Rapt0rtech

I don’t know why but ZOS continues to try and force us to play this terrible card “game”. Believe it or not some people, myself and my entire five guilds which include hundreds of people included, DO NOT WANT TO PLAY THIS CARD GAME! Yet now some furnishing leads, and other things, are being locked behind farming these tribute dailies to drop the lead! On top of that the “novice” NPCs have become more difficult to beat! Constantly the ai is using Pelin cards to spam power and/or using Rahjin to spawn false cards! WE DON’T WANT TO PLAY TRIBUTE! Along with I’d guess 90% of the playerbase. Stop locking things behind these dailies! Keep tribute away from us!

rabidmyers

i mean zos doesn't force anything, you only force yourself

disintegr8

Sounds like FOMO to me (Fear Of missing Out). I've never played ToT and have no plans to. Personal choice.

SpiritKitten

Furnishing leads should never be locked behind the card game. I have never played it, don't plan to. But now I might have to. That's not right.

Nestor

Supposedly, the Experts are still easy to beat. During the dailies, you can challenge any level even though they say you are not worthy.

I will say back when all NPCs were easy, it was an easy Twist the Patrons and be done in 5 to 10 minutes. Not anymore.

merpins

Tbf, tons of players don't want to participate in PVP either. And tons don't want to participate in PVE. And both parties are forced to do so when they want something from those zones.

But I agree, alternative ways to get leads and other things, as long as the things aren't specifically ToT related, should be obtainable elsewhere. The PVP and PVE argument is just sensationalism and, though a valid argument, is very different.

valenwood_vegan

I mean the issue is... imo... that ToT has absolutely nothing to do with ESO. I've said this in a couple other threads, but if I wanted to play a card game, I wouldn't be playing a mmo. (I might actually enjoy it outside of ESO, like on a phone app or something when I'm not at my PC, but I digress...). I think it's grinding peoples' gears because it's too time consuming and takes them completely out of the game they're actually here to play.

I'm not a big fan of pvp, but I do it sometimes - at least it's an activity that exists within the game world... uses the characters I've created and game-playing skills I've learned... ToT literally removes you from ESO makes you play a different game. Nothing I have created / learned / accomplished in ESO exists on the ToT screen. Chat is hidden by default (some people don't even realize you can chat during ToT). You can't see your opponent's character or the location you're playing the game in. Other players can't watch and cheer you on.

The cards have names and pictures on them that relate to ESO... yeah... but that's it.

And again, I really don't mean to suggest that it's a bad game or that people are wrong to enjoy it - I just think ZoS attempting to make people who are here to play ESO to play ToT instead in this manner is a really poor idea. If they want ToT to take off, maybe they need to promote it better it as its own thing.

Do a mini-ToT event... or an organized tournament... for people who WANT to play it, and give it a unique reward (which... I mean is a subtle difference, but IS different from requiring people to play ToT to get a piece of an item that's released as part of new chapter content that people paid a lot of money for). Maybe even open ToT to people outside ESO, and use it as a means to promote ESO to a new group of players... instead of vice versa.

Ok little rant over.

I'll finish with more useful info: for those struggling with the music box lead, I can confirm that the expert NPC (if you're able to play against it) was not upgraded with better AI and is the easiest one to beat at the moment. I wish you all luck!

MidniteOwl1913

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I mean the issue is... imo... that ToT has absolutely nothing to do with ESO. I've said this in a couple other threads, but if I wanted to play a card game, I wouldn't be playing a mmo. (I might actually enjoy it outside of ESO, like on a phone app or something when I'm not at my PC, but I digress...). I think it's grinding peoples' gears because it's too time consuming and takes them completely out of the game they're actually here to play.

For those struggling with the furnishing lead, I can confirm that the expert NPC (if you're able to play against it) was not upgraded with better AI and is the easiest one to beat at the moment. I wish you all luck!

Yes and this weird because *only* the expert was supposed to be upgraded, not the novice. Instead we have a patron spamming novice mode. Not, good, not good.

Meji

I surely want to play the card game. The rewards are secondary to me as I have no interest in housing. But if you want rewards for things you gotta do them, whether thats PvP, PvE, Overland, Questing. That's always been the case for MMOs.

Meji

In all fairness, I get it. I'm pretty much 99% PvP but since I wanted some rewards that were locked to PvE/Trial content I started doing them, met new people and had a blast doing the content.

I know Tales of Tribute isn't for everyone, heck it wasn't even for me when I started but now that I understand the game it is much for fun albeit a few QoL changes would make it far better.

DragonRacer

ESO is frustrating like this in all regards.

You know how much I would like to be able to buy that beautiful lit-up orange and blue dragon door furnishing?

You know, the one that's locked behind completing a 12- man trial called Sunspire to be able to buy at the achievement vendor?

At least ToT is something you can play against NPCs or, at worst, queue up against one player. Versus I would have to try and get carried or join a prog group coordinating 12 PEOPLE or pay insanely large gobs of money to some run carrier to complete a trial JUST so I can buy a door.

FantasticFreddie

DragonRacer wrote: »

ESO is frustrating like this in all regards.

You know how much I would like to be able to buy that beautiful lit-up orange and blue dragon door furnishing?

You know, the one that's locked behind completing a 12- man trial called Sunspire to be able to buy at the achievement vendor?

At least ToT is something you can play against NPCs or, at worst, queue up against one player. Versus I would have to try and get carried or join a prog group coordinating 12 PEOPLE or pay insanely large gobs of money to some run carrier to complete a trial JUST so I can buy a door.

You would be surprised to learn how many people buy vss and vka carries just for the achievement items

SaffronCitrusflower

I'm still baffled when I think that the management at ZOS thought that people invest thousands of dollars into a gaming computer so that they can play a card game. ToT would make far more sense as a phone app.

sharquez

[snip] It's not going anywhere regardless. If you want the rewards for the content than do the content.

If the game turns you off that much that you need to publicly declare your hatred for it for the world to see repeatedly then maybe you need to do a cost benefit analysis and live without the reward.

[snip]

Would you like it if you made something for some folks and they told you it's worthless? [snip]

You didn't ask for it? Ok ignore it.
You hate it? Don't play it.
You want the thing that you get by playing it? Tough it out its a card game it's not eating a cactus you'll live.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]

valenwood_vegan

I personally feel that there's value in relaying feedback to ZoS about things in the game that aren't enjoyable, and the reasons why. Which is why I also attempted to offer some suggestions for how they could spark more interest in ToT. (Though my limited knowledge of the game limits the detail of the suggestions I'm able to offer).

But I'm sorry for upsetting you so much.

Vaqual

I like the game and I like that there are incentives for playing it. The fact that you share decks with the opponent means winning is down to understanding of the game (optimal) and a bit of luck (to be expected from cardgames).

Play by the brick, lose by the brick.





And it adds a nice atmosphere to the world, populates the taverns, gives you something to chase, etc.

GooGa592

I tried Tales of Tribute for the first time today.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT ? Why??? I thought this was an MMO?

RevJJ

DragonRacer wrote: »

ESO is frustrating like this in all regards.

You know how much I would like to be able to buy that beautiful lit-up orange and blue dragon door furnishing?

You know, the one that's locked behind completing a 12- man trial called Sunspire to be able to buy at the achievement vendor?

At least ToT is something you can play against NPCs or, at worst, queue up against one player. Versus I would have to try and get carried or join a prog group coordinating 12 PEOPLE or pay insanely large gobs of money to some run carrier to complete a trial JUST so I can buy a door.

While I get what you’re trying to say, there is one big difference. If you complete Sunspire once on normal difficulty, you can buy that furnishing forever.

If you want to get the Captain Kaleen houseguest you have to collect ten fragments that have a chance to drop from ToT matches. Since Necrom went live I’ve played more than fifty matches against both NPCs and players and have gotten four fragments so far.

spartaxoxo

There should be nice rewards in all forms of content for players to enjoy. This includes Tales.

spartaxoxo

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

I'm still baffled when I think that the management at ZOS thought that people invest thousands of dollars into a gaming computer so that they can play a card game. ToT would make far more sense as a phone app.

They needed a non-combat altering addition to the game while they did major work on the performance of the main game. People had been requesting mini-games to play in taverns for a while, and many games have such things. Seems like an good idea to me.

WitchyKiki

Theres ESO content I don't partake and have come to really dislike. I used to raid a lot on my xbox account, when i crossed over to PC I realized how much I hated raiding because I can't stand how crazy people get over trials, and how much they hold your time hostage: which was one of the reasons why I quit the game.

I don't partake in raids anymore, once in a full moon I'll go in one and get some shinnies. Really, what I'm trying to say is that ESO is a very diverse game that has a million different ways to play. I don't really think ESO forces you into anything, but if you want rewards then you are forced into content i.e: raids for me, TOT for you. Its just how it is, the content needs incentive and TOT also deserves nice rewards.

Xarc

I dont play this mini game and i'm not interested to do it.
It could have been cool to have a mini game like a game of dice, in kingdom come:deliverance, to have fun in tavern, but this card game isnt fun at all for me...

Katheriah

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I mean the issue is... imo... that ToT has absolutely nothing to do with ESO. I've said this in a couple other threads, but if I wanted to play a card game, I wouldn't be playing a mmo. (I might actually enjoy it outside of ESO, like on a phone app or something when I'm not at my PC, but I digress...). I think it's grinding peoples' gears because it's too time consuming and takes them completely out of the game they're actually here to play.

For those struggling with the furnishing lead, I can confirm that the expert NPC (if you're able to play against it) was not upgraded with better AI and is the easiest one to beat at the moment. I wish you all luck!

Yes and this weird because *only* the expert was supposed to be upgraded, not the novice. Instead we have a patron spamming novice mode. Not, good, not good.

It's still dumb [snip] though, pick Hlaalu and the NPC will get rid of any card they buy.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Northwold

As far as I can tell, there is no reward (other than the tales of tribute trophies themselves) that is a unique *type* in Tales of Tribute. There may be unique "tapestries" / whatever. But there are other tapestries in the game.

Compare, as the most egregious example, the Reinforced Dwarfglass Window, which was at the time literally the *only* transparent window available in the game -- a basic necessity of housing that had been missing ever since housing was launched. It can only be obtained by completing Graven Deep -- a dungeon so difficult for a solo player that it's close to impossible to complete unless you have very high CP and a maxed out companion. To this day, it remains the only transparent window of anything like that size in the game.

I don't think it's wrong to include rewards that are unique to a facet of gameplay some people do not like and will not play. We may want them, but we can also get alternatives elsewhere. What I do think is wrong is to include rewards that make a difference to other gameplay and are unique *in type* as rewards for a gameplay style that not everyone will engage with. Tales of Tribute does not have those.

As for people saying MMOs don't have card games. Well, this one does. And like Witcher 3 (yes, it's not an MMO), such a game makes perfect sense within the game's world. Varieties of gameplay are a good thing.

emilyhyoyeon

Northwold wrote: »

As far as I can tell, there is no reward (other than the tales of tribute trophies themselves) that is a unique *type* in Tales of Tribute. There may be unique "tapestries" / whatever. But there are other tapestries in the game.

Why does unique type matter? If someone wants a TOT tapestry, are you saying some random redguard tapestry is a reasonable alternative? They look completely different. That matters. (although thankfully with the tapestries, they are tradeable.)

When I'm decorating a house, I don't look at a wall and think ''I need a tapestry for this wall, I'll go get a random one.'' I carefully think of the look I'm going for, or even the story I'm trying to create with the space, and pick something accordingly.

Also, there is no other music box than Glyphic Secrets that plays the Glyphic Secrets song. Music boxes aren't unique but the songs are very different in each. Being the same ''type'' of furnishing (music box) means nothing. Farewell Nenalata is not a reasonable alternative to Glyphic Secrets.


on another note, I'm now 15 purple boxes (+ about 40 green boxes) in with no inkwood box lead


Maybe it's just because I grew up on Runescape, but I think ESO needs way fewer BOP things and more tradeable things.

I feel like this is what it comes down to, for me: putting certain rewards behind certain things is fine, but wayyyyyyy more of them should be tradeable. That dwarven window should be tradeable, for example, in my opinion. I also think leads should be tradeable but that might have more contention.

bulbousb16_ESO

Don't play ToT or join the Alliance War if you don't want to. But there is nothing wrong with, and in fact there should be rewards specific to participation in different aspects of the game.

eternalshockcable

I didn't like the game but they don't force me to play it.

Lord_Graas

@ZOS_Kevin Any chance there won't be tales of tribute in the antiquities leads in the future? For this reason I still cannot get Glyphic Secrets Music Box (and maybe some other furnishing and achievements). If your card game was similar to Arcomage, that is, understandable to everyone, hazardous, then all players would want to play it. But you came up with a strange and too complex game that I don’t want to study and play at all after a working day.

xilfxlegion

i hate this card game and it is pissing me off because i have done the dailies six billion times and still no lead for this music box.

Calastir

"I can solo these."

Araneae6537

Northwold wrote: »

As far as I can tell, there is no reward (other than the tales of tribute trophies themselves) that is a unique *type* in Tales of Tribute. There may be unique "tapestries" / whatever. But there are other tapestries in the game.

Compare, as the most egregious example, the Reinforced Dwarfglass Window, which was at the time literally the *only* transparent window available in the game -- a basic necessity of housing that had been missing ever since housing was launched. It can only be obtained by completing Graven Deep -- a dungeon so difficult for a solo player that it's close to impossible to complete unless you have very high CP and a maxed out companion. To this day, it remains the only transparent window of anything like that size in the game.

I don't think it's wrong to include rewards that are unique to a facet of gameplay some people do not like and will not play. We may want them, but we can also get alternatives elsewhere. What I do think is wrong is to include rewards that make a difference to other gameplay and are unique *in type* as rewards for a gameplay style that not everyone will engage with. Tales of Tribute does not have those.

As for people saying MMOs don't have card games. Well, this one does. And like Witcher 3 (yes, it's not an MMO), such a game makes perfect sense within the game's world. Varieties of gameplay are a good thing.

That dungeon only requires being completed ONCE on normal and then you are GUARANTEED access to the window. And if you absolutely hate that sort of content or cannot do it for some reason, you can find people to carry you through it.

Even the Cyrodiil leads were not bad when I had absolutely no intention of doing that kind of PvP at the time. I went into the under 50 campaign and just did the PvE quests until I got it (eventually I tried the PvP again and enjoyed it, because I didn’t feel forced and there were some very welcoming and helpful players).

I really don’t like lengthy activities for just a chance at a lead dropping, even when it’s an activity I otherwise like. And it seems to me that the antiquities are getting more and more fragmented to prolong the process, which to me makes it less fun and exciting to get a lead. Having some take longer and more work is good, but it seems out of balance now.

And I really resent getting ToT stuff as overland quest rewards. You don’t get telvar and siege gear, why ToT? And worse is locking unrelated rewards behind it. When it was ToT related furnishings and a houseguest, that’s cool, although I don’t think this type of game fits an MMO (regardless if others have done it), if it’s here, it should have rewards, but I should be able to ignore it, even as I ignored PvP until I felt like participating.