Mag or stam arcanist

Syiccal

Which plays better and why just got mine to 50 on xbox, now to make pvp ready...
I'm thinking stam as all damage abilities amd vigor are stam then shields/ utility mag

LunaFlora

try magicka and stamina out and see which build you like more

merpins

The class has a better Stamina spammable, since it's AOE, heals, does decent damage, builds crux, is an execute, and gives you 5% extra damage for 20 seconds. The other morph, though magicka, is a crux consumption skill making is useless. The magicka spammable is basically just damage. Okay damage, but that's all it really gives. So there's no real incentive to use it. And unfortunately for magicka builds, you don't really have an alternative choice for a spammable outside your main class. The only magicka weapon skill line with a damaging spammable is Destruction Staff, and it's not any better than Runeblades. And though I like Elemental Weapon in the psijic skill line, it needs a decent sized buff to be any good. Stamina on the other hand has a 2h spammable and a dual wield spammable that are pretty good if you don't feel like using the class stam spammable (no reason not to though since it's so good).

fred4

I like Escalating Runeblades. Not saying it's meta or anything, but Draugrkin gives it and the beam some much needed kick. Cephaliarch's Flail is expensive, weak, not a very strong execute, and IMO more designed to work in conjunction with the ult as a root / snare, but not as a spammable. It does heal you, and ongoing healing is something the class is otherwise missing. That's the main reason why I think players go for Flail over Runeblades, but IMO it doesn't do enough damage - at least not when you build with Draugrkin. I also think Runeblades is better than Force Shock on account of the AOE component. It is a flexible skill in PvPvE, e.g. IC and in keeps.

Main stat: Stam all the way. Why? Simple: Runeblades and Runemend cost less. (EDIT: I may be wrong about that, but the following still turned out a decent-feeling way to build). I invested into stam regen, high stam pool and use an ice staff with the tri-focus passive on the back bar. This means my starc plays somewhat like a magicka build with the stat pools reversed. You can block on the magicka pool while burst healing via Runemed on the stamina pool. You're not cutting off the regen you need for healing while you block. That was important to me. You could probably build to mix Cruxweaver Armor with 2x Runemend on stamina, followed by 1x Runeward at full crux on magicka, becoming tanky that way. This is only for when you're being focused, of course. The key thing seems to be that Runeward is more of a reactive skill than the proactive shield other classes have. The proactive skill is the one that heals you when you fall below 50% health, which competes with Vigor.

EDIT: Am I wrong about the stam morphs being cheaper than mag? Gee, I'm not sure anymore. I am sure about Runeblades being cheaper than Flail, though, and about preferring medium armor over light in PvP. You got to watch what you're wearing when comparing skill costs. I thought I was in 1H, 3M, 3L, but I could be wrong.

LunaFlora

fred4 wrote: »

I like Escalating Runeblades. Not saying it's meta or anything, but Draugrkin gives it and the beam some much needed kick. Cephaliarch's Flail is expensive, weak, not a very strong execute, and IMO more designed to work in conjunction with the ult as a root / snare, but not as a spammable. It does heal you, and ongoing healing is something the class is otherwise missing. That's the main reason why I think players go for Flail over Runeblades, but IMO it doesn't do enough damage - at least not when you build with Draugrkin. I also think Runeblades is better than Force Shock on account of the AOE component. It is a flexible skill in PvPvE, e.g. IC and in keeps.

Main stat: Stam all the way. Why? Simple: Runeblades and Runemend cost less. (EDIT: I may be wrong about that, but the following still turned out a decent-feeling way to build). I invested into stam regen, high stam pool and use an ice staff with the tri-focus passive on the back bar. This means my starc plays somewhat like a magicka build with the stat pools reversed. You can block on the magicka pool while burst healing via Runemed on the stamina pool. You're not cutting off the regen you need for healing while you block. That was important to me. You could probably build to mix Cruxweaver Armor with 2x Runemend on stamina, followed by 1x Runeward at full crux on magicka, becoming tanky that way. This is only for when you're being focused, of course. The key thing seems to be that Runeward is more of a reactive skill than the proactive shield other classes have. The proactive skill is the one that heals you when you fall below 50% health, which competes with Vigor.

EDIT: Am I wrong about the stam morphs being cheaper than mag? Gee, I'm not sure anymore. I am sure about Runeblades being cheaper than Flail, though, and about preferring medium armor over light in PvP. You got to watch what you're wearing when comparing skill costs. I thought I was in 1H, 3M, 3L, but I could be wrong.

runeblades and runemend use your stamina or magicka depending on the highest so it should be the same cost for either resource.

HidesInPlainSight

Neither right now.

Class does not function in the current server meltdown.

The crux changed makes it cost 8-10k resources to gain access to your burst heal and 3 GCDs (4k+ stam for 2x spammable, 4.5k mag, depending on armor weight) that you have to hit vigor after just to top off after a failed gank or a burst. You have zero healing ability without Crux's to consume. It is so ass, that even duels, Arcanist is trash tier. You just burst them down in the first few seconds and they can't recover.

You want to burst a player down? Well they hit you and you have heal, now you have to build Crux's back up. So you just keep spending resources for your "brust" but its never there if they put any kind of pressure on you. You literally can't not build pressure or turtle and build because everything you would use on your "burst' is consumed in your turtle.

Servers are so trash right now, nothing on Arcanist is registering. Even in PvE instanced content, at 80 ping, *** is not register.

fred4

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

The crux changed makes it cost 8-10k resources to gain access to your burst heal and 3 GCDs (4k+ stam for 2x spammable, 4.5k mag, depending on armor weight) that you have to hit vigor after just to top off after a failed gank or a burst. You have zero healing ability without Crux's to consume. It is so ass, that even duels, Arcanist is trash tier. You just burst them down in the first few seconds and they can't recover.

You want to burst a player down? Well they hit you and you have heal, now you have to build Crux's back up. So you just keep spending resources for your "brust" but its never there if they put any kind of pressure on you. You literally can't not build pressure or turtle and build because everything you would use on your "burst' is consumed in your turtle.

Yes! This is exactly how I feel about Arc and why I feel Runemend is essential whereas Runeward is not. In fact I haven't been using Runeward, because I'm used to using shields proactively and didn't want it consuming my crux all the time. I wanted the crux for Fatecarver. I've only played on live. Didn't know this was different, initially, on the PTS.

That said, while I've been struggling, I watched a DK and Arc duel extensively in IC. It was the typical scenario where the DK would back off when anyone else from their faction turned up, attacking the Arc, and, being a good dueler, the Arc would just demolish the 3rd person. As far as I could see, the Arc was running the typical meta Master DW + Vateshran ice staff combo, which dominates PvP and perhaps wipes out class differences to some degree. That said he put the DK severely on the defensive, when I first watched them duelling, and eventually killed him. The DK, then, dusted himself off and they've been duelling ever since. Perhaps he underestimated the Arc at first.

It's early yet. We can all say we know Arc has no burst and bad / expensive healing, but I certainly don't feel confident how the meta will shake out. I also think if Arc wasn't a good dueller, but shone in support roles, against groups, or at choke points, that wouldn't be a bad outcome. I find the whole "every class must be equally capable in every role" thing severely limiting to class variety.

fred4

LunaFlora wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I like Escalating Runeblades. Not saying it's meta or anything, but Draugrkin gives it and the beam some much needed kick. Cephaliarch's Flail is expensive, weak, not a very strong execute, and IMO more designed to work in conjunction with the ult as a root / snare, but not as a spammable. It does heal you, and ongoing healing is something the class is otherwise missing. That's the main reason why I think players go for Flail over Runeblades, but IMO it doesn't do enough damage - at least not when you build with Draugrkin. I also think Runeblades is better than Force Shock on account of the AOE component. It is a flexible skill in PvPvE, e.g. IC and in keeps.

Main stat: Stam all the way. Why? Simple: Runeblades and Runemend cost less. (EDIT: I may be wrong about that, but the following still turned out a decent-feeling way to build). I invested into stam regen, high stam pool and use an ice staff with the tri-focus passive on the back bar. This means my starc plays somewhat like a magicka build with the stat pools reversed. You can block on the magicka pool while burst healing via Runemed on the stamina pool. You're not cutting off the regen you need for healing while you block. That was important to me. You could probably build to mix Cruxweaver Armor with 2x Runemend on stamina, followed by 1x Runeward at full crux on magicka, becoming tanky that way. This is only for when you're being focused, of course. The key thing seems to be that Runeward is more of a reactive skill than the proactive shield other classes have. The proactive skill is the one that heals you when you fall below 50% health, which competes with Vigor.

EDIT: Am I wrong about the stam morphs being cheaper than mag? Gee, I'm not sure anymore. I am sure about Runeblades being cheaper than Flail, though, and about preferring medium armor over light in PvP. You got to watch what you're wearing when comparing skill costs. I thought I was in 1H, 3M, 3L, but I could be wrong.

runeblades and runemend use your stamina or magicka depending on the highest so it should be the same cost for either resource.

OK, I double-checked. The costs are not the same. On my Imperial without any gear:

Escalating Runeblades = 2157 stamina or 2538 magicka
Pragmatic Fatecarver = 360 stamina or 423 magicka
Evolving Runemend = 3667 stamina or 4315 magicka

Stamina morphs have always been cheaper than magicka, I just had to double-check for Arc. The historical reason is that you need your stamina pool for core combat as well, e.g. blocking, rolling, sprinting, bashing.

Given the above, and with today's options of using an ice staff with tri-focus or using Stormweaver's Cavort, the choice is clear. It's stam all the way. It's not even a choice in my book. I'd go stam in PvE as well.

EDIT: Do I ever not have afterthoughts? I mostly play solo. That's my context. Please bear that in mind. If you are a group healer, I don't know how that works out for you.

fred4

This thread made me think about my Arc. Just a quick update: I switched from Draugrkin to Dagon's Dominion as my front bar set. The result is that Escalating Runeblades is marginally weaker, but still almost 10K with crux, Flail is stronger at almost 8K, Fatecarver and the ult are stronger, at least per the tooltips. I've lost some pen and some crit, so the end result is hard to judge, but I think this is a better setup. I hope it will make Flail viable as the spammable and will be taking advantage of that heal for a while.

fred4

@HidesInPlainSight, I've read your contributions in this other thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/635635/elemental-susceptibility-wrath-of-elements-twin-slashes-perfected-stinging-slashes/p1

You seem to know a lot of stuff. I think if we are to have a fair discussion, it needs to be open. With that in mind, here's my Arcanist as of now:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=545405

• I'm using double destro staves, because that's the only weapon type I have levelled for now.
• It's an Imperial Stam Arcanist to bring down skill costs as discussed above. Also I'm blocking with magicka on the back bar, as discussed.
• UESP gets the stats and sustain right, but weapon damage and tooltips are overcooked for some reason. Unbuffed (only with permanent Major Brutality) Flail / Fatecarver tooltips are 7890 and 3579 respectively. That said, the game currently does not display the Lightning Staff's Ancient Knowledge passive properly, but DOES buff the actual damage (I tested).
• UESP does not get the stamina cost of the flex skills right. See above for naked costs. Less with medium armor passives.
• As this is not a high health build, the tanking skills are pretty useless and I agree you shouldn't burn crux with your defensive skills, at least not on this build. However the regen buffs from slotting tanking skills are just insane, which is why I'm trying Runeguard of Freedom instead of Vigor and have two tanking skills on each bar.
• Pragmatic Fatecarver is just bad in the final analysis. I've been stunned so many times by NPCs. I believe the skill only starts doing damage after 1s and maybe that's also only the time when the shield kicks in. At any rate, the shield is too small to be truly worthwhile. You only have CC immunity while the shield holds. If I read Exhausting Fatecarver correctly, it can snare up to 48% at full crux, so the idea is to control players with Colorless Pool, Exhausting Fatecarver, and the root from Flail while they are being ulted. While sorcs typically streak away and anyone with RAT will just cast that, I did corner a sorc and almost killed him with an ult / Fatecarver combo, and he was a good sorc that I'd been duelling.

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Class does not function in the current server meltdown.

I assume you're on console. PC EU mostly works fine, these days, with new servers.

The crux changed makes it cost 8-10k resources to gain access to your burst heal and 3 GCDs (4k+ stam for 2x spammable, 4.5k mag, depending on armor weight)

I really don't think Runespite Ward is a burst heal. It's IMO an overhyped skill that can only work on a high health build, preferably on a stamina build that has a half decent cost of Runemed, which you also need to slot and use to build crux when you are being focused.

that you have to hit vigor after just to top off after a failed gank or a burst. You have zero healing ability without Crux's to consume. It is so ass, that even duels, Arcanist is trash tier. You just burst them down in the first few seconds and they can't recover.

Esoteric Greaves and throw everything else into offense and sustain. You can't be ganked and you can only be be burst in a longer duel where you didn't manage your stamina (need to switch to DW for heavy attacks). This is why I built for 35K stam and stam regen. Thankfully the class allows for that and I think the selection of mythics we got along with this class are no accident. As long as your stam is high, you can go on the attack with Fatecarver, because you basically can't be burst. That said you are still vulnerable to the meta, e.g. Master's DW / Vateshran destro. DOTs are your enemy. I'm trying Runeguard of Freedom right now instead of Vigor. I wanted the regen passives on both bars to keep my stam above 50%, but you may need to stack Flail + Vigor to deal with DOTs.

You want to burst a player down? Well they hit you and you have heal, now you have to build Crux's back up.

Nope. Forget the overhyped Runespite Ward.

So you just keep spending resources for your "brust" but its never there if they put any kind of pressure on you. You literally can't not build pressure or turtle and build because everything you would use on your "burst' is consumed in your turtle.

I think this just means you haven't figured out your playstyle yet. My answer is the above. Another answer might be to heal with stamina (costs less) Runemend, building crux, and use Runeward only as a top off skill before resuming attack. I don't think that looks all that promising, cause you have to build crux again, at least if you're using Fatecarver, but I haven't explored every option yet. Maybe you don't slot Fatecarver in that case.

geonsocal

as always @fred4 I love reading your posts - I always learn something