Dro-m'Athra style from new Crown crate.

laniakea_0

Is it wise to let us get this style in this way? They even put it in as a single purchase for only 100 crown gems or 3600 seals of endeavor. this feels like they are stabbing Maw of Lorkhaj in the back.

HidesInPlainSight

The crafting pages are like 100k average. Id just buy them off the trader

Braffin

Don't see much of a problem here, as you can already:

1) Buy them at a trader
2) Hope for some luck during anniversary event (yeah, they are dropping out of the boxes there)

And if you can't afford buying them either with gold or crowns and also don't want to wait you can still utilize Noble Sergeant Brokensoul (yeah, he got a promotion last patch) and brrrrzzzzzz them out of Rakkhat yourself.

Ragnarok0130

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Is it wise to let us get this style in this way? They even put it in as a single purchase for only 100 crown gems or 3600 seals of endeavor. this feels like they are stabbing Maw of Lorkhaj in the back.

I'm not a fan of selling motif styles that drop from content into the crown store. If you want the motif play the content. I'm not crazy about them being able to be sold to people outside of your raid group TBH either.

laniakea_0

yes. to me, it seems like this would heavily dilute the game reward value of this motif. 3600 seals is less than 18 weeks worth of endeavors if you only do the weekly one. it's less than half that long if you do the daily ones as well. seems unfair that you would be able to get such a high level reward just from logging in and doing a few little things every day for a few months.

virtus753

This particular ship sailed ~~five~~ six years ago, which was when it was offered directly for crowns in the store. The only change now is you play the crate/gems/seals game instead.

ETA: lost track of time! Six years.

Soarora

This isn’t the first time motifs have been available in the crown store and it won’t be the last. It won’t harm the value of the real motifs since most people have the sense to buy pages off the trader or farm them themselves.

CameraBeardThePirate

Why are people acting like the Dro-m'Athra style is hard to get? Sure, it drops from a trial, but it's also tradeable and sellable. You can buy it for a very reasonable price on the guild trader all things considered. I've never even step foot in Maw and I have most of the style pages. It's hardly "an achievement" to own the style.

vsrs_au

laniakea_0 wrote: »

yes. to me, it seems like this would heavily dilute the game reward value of this motif. 3600 seals is less than 18 weeks worth of endeavors if you only do the weekly one. it's less than half that long if you do the daily ones as well. seems unfair that you would be able to get such a high level reward just from logging in and doing a few little things every day for a few months.

3600 seals is a large time investment, getting a style book from it sounds perfectly reasonable to me. What I personally find not reasonable is having to pay at least 4k crowns (and enough IRL money to buy a new game) for a style book.

thedoodle_90

These pages are not 100k. They average 800k-1mil on PC... lol The 100k ones are like daggers.... and belts.

CameraBeardThePirate

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

These pages are not 100k. They average 800k-1mil on PC... lol The 100k ones are like daggers.... and belts.

1mil is still a pretty reasonable price for not having to farm a trial. It's also a much quicker milestone than reaching 3600 seals of endeavor; with how wild inflation has gotten you can get 1mil in materials fairly quickly from farming tutorial zones.

The point is that adding them to crown crates doesn't really cheapen the motif at all, especially considering it's years old, can be bought on traders, and has been in the crown store already for ages.

HidesInPlainSight

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

These pages are not 100k. They average 800k-1mil on PC... lol The 100k ones are like daggers.... and belts.

Only the chest are like a 800k.Rest of the pages are like 100k-300k.

Takes me 1 min 30 sec to farm 300k. i aint stepping in a trial unless i need to farm gear.

Kitziboo

They must be available for sale on guild stores or given away in an event as I already had seven of the styles before landing the full book via my crate. I have never been in a dlc dungeon except to grab the freebies or easy lore books 😸

ApoAlaia

This is one of those situation where the layers of obfuscation make - by design mind you - difficult to calculate the actual value of anything in the cash shop.

If this was purchased with crowns directly it would be a single step of conversion, still no ideal - and don't they know it - but serviceable:

In PC/EU crown to gold rate is around 1:2,000, so if this was a 'gold' book purchased for crowns 5,000 x 2,000 would be 10M gold.

10M/14 pages is 714,285 per page on average which based on EU prices it would only make the non-existent Ancient Daedric gold book perhaps worth purchasing for crowns.

Any other gold book makes little sense purchasing for crowns directly or via 'crowns for in-game gold' conversion.

The price of crowns themselves in actual 'real world' money is a can or worms that I am not going to open here.

However here is where the second layer of obfuscation gets in the way: how much is 1 gem worth? how much is '33 gems' - the value of the book OP mentions.

Is 33 gems the equivalent of 5k crowns - the value of the gold motif books in the crown store? Or is it 100 gems - the purchase cost of the item if acquired with gems - 5k crowns? Why do items cost x to purchase with gems but only yield x/3 of the gem value when redeemed?

Gems are only obtainable as a diminished byproduct of consuming crown crates; one cannot buy 'gem packs' from anywhere, if one could then the conversion rate to both in-game gold and 'real world' currency would be pretty trivial, however as it stands is anything but.

Maybe a mathematician can resolve this one but it certainly eludes me, and this again is by design. Make it as complicated as possible so the only thing one can know for sure is how much money one spent originally on crowns.

What those crowns will buy? Well that just depends...

BlueRaven

That style has been around for ages, this can’t be the first time it’s available in the crown store, no?

If it is new then whatever, I have had the style for a long time myself, I would think it’s about time they sold it in the store.

ApoAlaia

BlueRaven wrote: »

That style has been around for ages, this can’t be the first time it’s available in the crown store, no?

If it is new then whatever, I have had the style for a long time myself, I would think it’s about time they sold it in the store.

This book has been available in the cash shop before:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316362/limited-dro-m-athra-style-available-in-the-crown-store-all-platforms

Not sure if it was ever available as FOMO 'limited time availability' purchase after that.

BlueRaven

ApoAlaia wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

That style has been around for ages, this can’t be the first time it’s available in the crown store, no?

If it is new then whatever, I have had the style for a long time myself, I would think it’s about time they sold it in the store.

This book has been available in the cash shop before:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/316362/limited-dro-m-athra-style-available-in-the-crown-store-all-platforms

Not sure if it was ever available as FOMO 'limited time availability' purchase after that.

Oh! Ok. So really no big deal then.

laniakea_0

I'm seeing a lot of people saying that this isn't the first time a Motif has been for sale in the crown store. that is correct, it happens all the time. but this is different. this time you don't buy it from crowns, you can buy it from crown gems and seals of endeavor. and on top of it, it's so cheap that if you start farming seals right now, you'd probably have enough to buy it before it's out of the store again. as far as I know, this hasn't really happened before. being able to get an entire motif just from login in and spending maybe half an hour in the game every day. not even doing anything challenging. this defeats the purpose of this motif. it's a meant as a trial reward. if everyone can just passively gain it while not even working toward it, what even is the point anymore?

Dagoth_Rac

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I'm seeing a lot of people saying that this isn't the first time a Motif has been for sale in the crown store. that is correct, it happens all the time. but this is different. this time you don't buy it from crowns, you can buy it from crown gems and seals of endeavor. and on top of it, it's so cheap that if you start farming seals right now, you'd probably have enough to buy it before it's out of the store again. as far as I know, this hasn't really happened before. being able to get an entire motif just from login in and spending maybe half an hour in the game every day. not even doing anything challenging. this defeats the purpose of this motif. it's a meant as a trial reward. if everyone can just passively gain it while not even working toward it, what even is the point anymore?

Motifs are available with gems and seals all the time. Last season was Welkynar and Dreadhorn, the season before that was Huntsman and Pyre Watch, season before was Nighthollow and Sea Giant, season before was Honor Guard and Silver Dawn. This season is Dro-m'Athra and Meridian.

I don't understand why there is such a collective freakout over motif books in crates. This has been standard for years. Is it because Dro-m'Athra is a popular motif? If you oppose the practice in principal, you had years to complain. It is not even that simple daily delve motifs were available in crates but not trials. Or base game motifs were in crates but not DLC. DLC Trial/Arena/Dungeon motifs have been in crates for many seasons. This complaint feels more like, "Motifs people think are lame can be available in crates, but not motifs people think are cool!"

laniakea_0

I check the store any time there's a new crate with new stock. I haven't noticed anything like this before. but it doesn't matter. if they are just in the crate, it's hardly different from buying it for crowns directly. even buying it with crown gems would be fine if it's the right price, since it come from the same source. but this is the first time I saw it being available from the seals shop. anyway, even if this happened before, I still take the same issue with it. these are high level rewards and you shouldn't be able to get them by doing little more than logging into the game.

FayJolyn

I'd just snag them of the guild traders. I got the bow for like 60k a while ago. Pants and sword dropped from anniversary crates. it's the chest and some of the weapons that still sell for above 100k over on pc eu.

Braffin

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I check the store any time there's a new crate with new stock. I haven't noticed anything like this before. but it doesn't matter. if they are just in the crate, it's hardly different from buying it for crowns directly. even buying it with crown gems would be fine if it's the right price, since it come from the same source. but this is the first time I saw it being available from the seals shop. anyway, even if this happened before, I still take the same issue with it. these are high level rewards and you shouldn't be able to get them by doing little more than logging into the game.

Sorry, I don't get it.

Fine, you're one of the guys which are organizing rewards into some sort of levelled system to determine their worth as status symbol. A questionable opinion at best, but to each his own.
Still, you don't seem to have a problem if people simply buy this motif with either real money or gold. But an alternative way to earn it by working for it seems out of the question.

Why is that?

CameraBeardThePirate

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I'm seeing a lot of people saying that this isn't the first time a Motif has been for sale in the crown store. that is correct, it happens all the time. but this is different. this time you don't buy it from crowns, you can buy it from crown gems and seals of endeavor. and on top of it, it's so cheap that if you start farming seals right now, you'd probably have enough to buy it before it's out of the store again. as far as I know, this hasn't really happened before. being able to get an entire motif just from login in and spending maybe half an hour in the game every day. not even doing anything challenging. this defeats the purpose of this motif. it's a meant as a trial reward. if everyone can just passively gain it while not even working toward it, what even is the point anymore?

You can already farm this motif in the exact same amount of time by farming gold though - its years old and can be found in guild traders.

Daoin

could not say no to this particular chapter for 100 gems really only need finish a few more of the newer chapters now and the whole motif saga will finally be done for one character, no way i want to go to MoL for chapter pages. (provided more new ones dont arrive just before again) or you could always volunteer to make up the numbers in the wipe squads if not have a team on motif or style days

Grizzbeorn

BlueRaven wrote: »

So really no big deal then.

Nope.
Neither is it a big deal for any of the other motifs to be made available in the shop.

Personalities, Polymorphs, skins... things that are only available in Veteran dungeon runs... fine.

But leave motifs alone.

laniakea_0

Braffin wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I check the store any time there's a new crate with new stock. I haven't noticed anything like this before. but it doesn't matter. if they are just in the crate, it's hardly different from buying it for crowns directly. even buying it with crown gems would be fine if it's the right price, since it come from the same source. but this is the first time I saw it being available from the seals shop. anyway, even if this happened before, I still take the same issue with it. these are high level rewards and you shouldn't be able to get them by doing little more than logging into the game.

Sorry, I don't get it.

Fine, you're one of the guys which are organizing rewards into some sort of levelled system to determine their worth as status symbol. A questionable opinion at best, but to each his own.
Still, you don't seem to have a problem if people simply buy this motif with either real money or gold. But an alternative way to earn it by working for it seems out of the question.

Why is that?

Because it's just no challenge at all. you can log in once a day, kill a few mobs, craft a few things, read a few books, or whatever else is on the list to get your seals, and after a couple months (easily less than 2) you'll have enough to just buy the whole motif. this is basically no effort. you're playing the game anyway so you're just earning it passively as you go along. now, I didn't want to get into the crown store option because that's another whole topic. I don't like that you can buy these things there for real money but that's not the point of this thread. my point is that this particular motif is awarded for completing challenging content and I don't believe it's wise to basically give it away for free. even buying it from other players for gold is more challenging than this because you've got to save up enough gold first. I don't know where some of the people in this thread get so much gold in just a few minutes, but even getting 100k takes me more than a week (unless I'm finding and selling motifs or an event just ended, which is usually not the case) and I'm sure that most players aren't that much more successful either. so yeah, even getting the gold to buy it is more challenging than basically getting it for free through the seals shop.

CGPsaint

ApoAlaia wrote: »

This is one of those situation where the layers of obfuscation make - by design mind you - difficult to calculate the actual value of anything in the cash shop.

If this was purchased with crowns directly it would be a single step of conversion, still no ideal - and don't they know it - but serviceable:

In PC/EU crown to gold rate is around 1:2,000, so if this was a 'gold' book purchased for crowns 5,000 x 2,000 would be 10M gold.

10M/14 pages is 714,285 per page on average which based on EU prices it would only make the non-existent Ancient Daedric gold book perhaps worth purchasing for crowns.

Any other gold book makes little sense purchasing for crowns directly or via 'crowns for in-game gold' conversion.

The price of crowns themselves in actual 'real world' money is a can or worms that I am not going to open here.

However here is where the second layer of obfuscation gets in the way: how much is 1 gem worth? how much is '33 gems' - the value of the book OP mentions.

Is 33 gems the equivalent of 5k crowns - the value of the gold motif books in the crown store? Or is it 100 gems - the purchase cost of the item if acquired with gems - 5k crowns? Why do items cost x to purchase with gems but only yield x/3 of the gem value when redeemed?

Gems are only obtainable as a diminished byproduct of consuming crown crates; one cannot buy 'gem packs' from anywhere, if one could then the conversion rate to both in-game gold and 'real world' currency would be pretty trivial, however as it stands is anything but.

Maybe a mathematician can resolve this one but it certainly eludes me, and this again is by design. Make it as complicated as possible so the only thing one can know for sure is how much money one spent originally on crowns.

What those crowns will buy? Well that just depends...

I 100% agree that the only thing going on here is trying to hide the actual cost behind layers of different currencies, which is why I don't purchase Crowns for real money. That being said, there is no shortage of people on Xbox/NA who sell UNLIMITED Crowns which could be legit since there are plenty of whales in the game, however there is a fishy side to what they are doing. I have purchased large quantities of Crowns from multiple sellers and none of the items that were gifted to me originated from the account where I mailed the money. Furthermore, I received those gifts from multiple alternate accounts each time. So for instance, if I asked for 25K Crowns worth of Crown Crates, I received 5 different gifts from 5 different accounts. Maybe I'm crazy, but some shenanigans are going down somewhere.

CameraBeardThePirate

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I check the store any time there's a new crate with new stock. I haven't noticed anything like this before. but it doesn't matter. if they are just in the crate, it's hardly different from buying it for crowns directly. even buying it with crown gems would be fine if it's the right price, since it come from the same source. but this is the first time I saw it being available from the seals shop. anyway, even if this happened before, I still take the same issue with it. these are high level rewards and you shouldn't be able to get them by doing little more than logging into the game.

Sorry, I don't get it.

Fine, you're one of the guys which are organizing rewards into some sort of levelled system to determine their worth as status symbol. A questionable opinion at best, but to each his own.
Still, you don't seem to have a problem if people simply buy this motif with either real money or gold. But an alternative way to earn it by working for it seems out of the question.

Why is that?

Because it's just no challenge at all. you can log in once a day, kill a few mobs, craft a few things, read a few books, or whatever else is on the list to get your seals, and after a couple months (easily less than 2) you'll have enough to just buy the whole motif. this is basically no effort. you're playing the game anyway so you're just earning it passively as you go along. now, I didn't want to get into the crown store option because that's another whole topic. I don't like that you can buy these things there for real money but that's not the point of this thread. my point is that this particular motif is awarded for completing challenging content and I don't believe it's wise to basically give it away for free. even buying it from other players for gold is more challenging than this because you've got to save up enough gold first. I don't know where some of the people in this thread get so much gold in just a few minutes, but even getting 100k takes me more than a week (unless I'm finding and selling motifs or an event just ended, which is usually not the case) and I'm sure that most players aren't that much more successful either. so yeah, even getting the gold to buy it is more challenging than basically getting it for free through the seals shop.

Go to Kenarthi's Roost. Harvest every blacksmithing, clothing, or jewelry node you come across. In about an hour you should have around 500k in mats, more if you get lucky with refining.

It's ridiculous to gatekeep something like this when 1) it's already been sold in the crown store many times, and 2) it takes very little effort already to get enough gold to buy the motifs.

Other trial motifs like the Welkynar style have literally never left the crown store and I don't see anyone complaining about that.

CGPsaint

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I check the store any time there's a new crate with new stock. I haven't noticed anything like this before. but it doesn't matter. if they are just in the crate, it's hardly different from buying it for crowns directly. even buying it with crown gems would be fine if it's the right price, since it come from the same source. but this is the first time I saw it being available from the seals shop. anyway, even if this happened before, I still take the same issue with it. these are high level rewards and you shouldn't be able to get them by doing little more than logging into the game.

Sorry, I don't get it.

Fine, you're one of the guys which are organizing rewards into some sort of levelled system to determine their worth as status symbol. A questionable opinion at best, but to each his own.
Still, you don't seem to have a problem if people simply buy this motif with either real money or gold. But an alternative way to earn it by working for it seems out of the question.

Why is that?

Because it's just no challenge at all. you can log in once a day, kill a few mobs, craft a few things, read a few books, or whatever else is on the list to get your seals, and after a couple months (easily less than 2) you'll have enough to just buy the whole motif. this is basically no effort. you're playing the game anyway so you're just earning it passively as you go along. now, I didn't want to get into the crown store option because that's another whole topic. I don't like that you can buy these things there for real money but that's not the point of this thread. my point is that this particular motif is awarded for completing challenging content and I don't believe it's wise to basically give it away for free. even buying it from other players for gold is more challenging than this because you've got to save up enough gold first. I don't know where some of the people in this thread get so much gold in just a few minutes, but even getting 100k takes me more than a week (unless I'm finding and selling motifs or an event just ended, which is usually not the case) and I'm sure that most players aren't that much more successful either. so yeah, even getting the gold to buy it is more challenging than basically getting it for free through the seals shop.

Go to Kenarthi's Roost. Harvest every blacksmithing, clothing, or jewelry node you come across. In about an hour you should have around 500k in mats, more if you get lucky with refining.

It's ridiculous to gatekeep something like this when 1) it's already been sold in the crown store many times, and 2) it takes very little effort already to get enough gold to buy the motifs.

Other trial motifs like the Welkynar style have literally never left the crown store and I don't see anyone complaining about that.

You can buy the entire Welkynar style on Xbox/NA for 250-300K total. I've seen the chests for around 100K recently and the other pages sell for 10-15K or less if you take the time look around!

Braffin

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I check the store any time there's a new crate with new stock. I haven't noticed anything like this before. but it doesn't matter. if they are just in the crate, it's hardly different from buying it for crowns directly. even buying it with crown gems would be fine if it's the right price, since it come from the same source. but this is the first time I saw it being available from the seals shop. anyway, even if this happened before, I still take the same issue with it. these are high level rewards and you shouldn't be able to get them by doing little more than logging into the game.

Sorry, I don't get it.

Fine, you're one of the guys which are organizing rewards into some sort of levelled system to determine their worth as status symbol. A questionable opinion at best, but to each his own.
Still, you don't seem to have a problem if people simply buy this motif with either real money or gold. But an alternative way to earn it by working for it seems out of the question.

Why is that?

Because it's just no challenge at all. you can log in once a day, kill a few mobs, craft a few things, read a few books, or whatever else is on the list to get your seals, and after a couple months (easily less than 2) you'll have enough to just buy the whole motif. this is basically no effort. you're playing the game anyway so you're just earning it passively as you go along. now, I didn't want to get into the crown store option because that's another whole topic. I don't like that you can buy these things there for real money but that's not the point of this thread. my point is that this particular motif is awarded for completing challenging content and I don't believe it's wise to basically give it away for free. even buying it from other players for gold is more challenging than this because you've got to save up enough gold first. I don't know where some of the people in this thread get so much gold in just a few minutes, but even getting 100k takes me more than a week (unless I'm finding and selling motifs or an event just ended, which is usually not the case) and I'm sure that most players aren't that much more successful either. so yeah, even getting the gold to buy it is more challenging than basically getting it for free through the seals shop.

I still don't get it. You still can earn this motif by running MoL (even in normal mode, which isn't particulary "challenging content") if you decide to do it this way. So you loose nothing, if other player use another option to earn it.

There are countless people out there, which aren't able or willing to do trails out of various reasons, and I really see no reason to gatekeep motifs just for the sake of it. I assure you, the trial won't be harmed, as there isn't a single player I know (I've done HM countless times myself in there btw), which is doing trials primarily for motifs. They're a nice addition, but not anything particulary interesting.

Honestly, this sounds like an envy debate to me.

laniakea_0

to be blunt. if you get something basically for free with little to no effort, you didn't earn it. there is no accomplishment here. which defeats the purpose of this motif. it's a reward for end-game content. making it available in this fashion diminishes the accomplishment of those that get it the intended way. that sense of accomplishment and the fruits of that labor absolutely is something players are looking for.