Class individuality is dead in ESO!

Rapt0rtech

I’ve played ESO since day 1 and I can say 100% that the class individuality has almost died! The biggest culprit is the inclusion of everything for player characters. As a sorcerer you can wear heavy armour or even stamina sets. As a DK you can wear light armour and go full magicka.
It just seems that everyone playing just simply wants to know how much damage you can do or how tanky you are without really caring about what class you have. Countless other MMOs make your class feel needed when groups need a certain skill that only a specific class has access to. In ESO that need is very nearly completely vanished. One of the few times in matters is when trial groups need a Necro for Colossus.
I just feel like in allowing everyone to use everything the games classes become kind of pointless. Why play a class you like when this other one does more damage and so on. It takes away that individuality you have with your class because everyone can use everything anyway. It needs to change in my opinion.

LunaFlora

im glad every class can use any set and any item and that they're not locked to one role. that would be an extremely boring game

Legate_Lanius

LunaFlora wrote: »

im glad every class can use any set and any item and that they're not locked to one role. that would be an extremely boring game

This. If you played any ES game, you should know anyone can build pretty much whatever they want to play. ESO isn’t much different.

Heavy armored sorcerers a bad thing ? Ever heard of battlemages / spellswords ? What you may find unattractive or even repulsive in theme might appeal to someone else. And that’s the beauty of it.

Now granted some skills are streamlined and similar in what they do, but I feel overall each class has its own gimmicks to make them stand out : bears = wardens, daedras = sorcerers, holy spells and attacks = templars, fire = dragonknight etc.

They even have their own color palettes as stated by the devs when they searched for a new class to make and started to look at those colors and see which ones were not used.

BejaProphet

And yet there is something to the original post, no?

I join the other responses in that I love ALL the flexibility. But if we are being honest…hasn’t class uniqueness been the price we have paid for this?

I’m just saying that we should acknowledge the trade off. And it would be a good thing if ZOS pulled off some crazy outside the box strat for making classes feel unique again without taking away the flexibility.

Can it be done? 🤷‍♂️ but it would be awesome.

ADarklore

And yet, Arcanist comes out and some people are already complaining that it's "not like the other classes". Arcanist was designed from the ground up to be a hybrid, yet, it also is designed around the crux system which completely limits playstyle. You have some people complaining when they try to play it like other classes, because they generate crux but have no way of spending them because they aren't using crux spenders on their build.

So an example of ZOS creating a class with a very specific identity, and people complaining that it's a class with a very specific identity.

I much prefer being able to create my own build, instead of being locked into a class with a very specific identity. However, with that being said, I'm loving Arcanist and it's specific identity. Go figure.

tenryuta

you could play the mmo's with little to freedom in how their played hint hint 14 hint hint, that have tons of identity, and yet eso classes have more identity than them because you mold a theme around a character you made picking each skill... or meta up for maximum 'rotation!'.

Tessitura

I half agree with op and half do not. This game never was good at class identity and I honestly thought having classes to begin with was a bad call for a Elder Scrolls game. However if you are going to have classes they should have a reason to be there and function with class mechanics for the sake of design cohesion. I think Arcanist is the most well designed class they have made yet. Class mechanics go a long way to building up a fantasy and imposing a form of balance that isnt just wild number adjustments.

This game does suffer from its freedom to build at times. Mostly because it pretty much became you are free to build this one way on all classes. Very slight variations based on class passives and utility but for the most part everyone is kitted up the same except for Arcanist. Which I like about Arcanist. Meta is always going to be a thing, but when the meta is the same no matter the class, what then is the point of the class?

I dont think the game would be that boring if there was more class mechanics put in to break things up. Its a balancing act between freedom and limitation that makes theory crafting the most fun for me. It would be better to look at the classes rather than their access to armor, or weapon, or outside skill lines. What armor they can wear does not matter as much as what the playstyle is.

Vevvev

Rapt0rtech wrote: »

As a DK you can wear light armour and go full magicka..

Yes.... they're fire mages.... I've been doing this since before Summerset after I realized DK was more fun as a fire mage than a warrior running around in full plate armor.

DK is even written in the lore books about it to be mostly focused on magic, in fact pretty much all the classes are, and being able to use that magic in a knight style format is just convenient. ESO is based off Elder Scrolls lore, and even in games like Oblivion your class didn't pigeon hole you into a single fighting style. It just made you pretty good at it starting off, but nothing stopped a Nightblade in Oblivion from picking up restoration magic or for being forced to use illusions.

Braffin

Expected a thread about hybridization tbh, which leads indeed to some problems with class identity, zos should adress.

But this... Sry bro, what you're complaining about isn't alone ESO but TES since the very beginning. Implementing gear and build restrictions on classes would be like taking away lightsabers from jedi and force them to use some phaser or so. Hard no for me.

Daoin

i agree with post wont matter if one could be good at something while not too good at something else, but race goes hand in hand with class now in being part resposible for the games dead individuality of characters like hearing people ask other people what race they should choose for thier characters class and with which items. instead of playing the ones they like and maybe have some connection with weapons and sets they enjoy using, you are right people only care about damage output or tankiness but this can only be expected in an MMO, at least the game offers such a large enviroment to play in and so many things to do it can all go largely unnoticed in the game at large. but yes having been around a long time it seems very noticable, not so much lately with eso trying and keep thier promise of making the games content more accesible to newer and older players alike.

Rampeal

Personally I think it is the weapon/world skills that kill class identity. I mean can you say you're a warden when 80% of your skills are weapon and world skills?

Look I am not blaming people for using them, but when world/weapon skills out preform class skills who can blame them?Some skills are just useless. I mean how often do you see a warden rocking Frozen Gate, Crystallized Shield, or Nature's Grasp?

tenryuta

Rampeal wrote: »

Personally I think it is the weapon/world skills that kill class identity. I mean can you say you're a warden when 80% of your skills are weapon and world skills?

Look I am not blaming people for using them, but when world/weapon skills out preform class skills who can blame them?Some skills are just useless. I mean how often do you see a warden rocking Frozen Gate, Crystallized Shield, or Nature's Grasp?

if ice furnace post update works with arctic wind, then it would be used on my offense style... sadly i dumped my last warden, and new one is not being rushed to 50 with a 5p set to see if it ticks with arctic or on use.(at 30 now) and sadly as ranged attack i would use FG offensively<_<(as inefficient as that is, and solo...), if shards cast motion was more like seeds arise or NB's quicker cripple and have some instant damage it would be better.

GrimStyx

Braffin wrote: »

Expected a thread about hybridization tbh, which leads indeed to some problems with class identity, zos should adress.

But this... Sry bro, what you're complaining about isn't alone ESO but TES since the very beginning. Implementing gear and build restrictions on classes would be like taking away lightsabers from jedi and force them to use some phaser or so. Hard no for me.

but non-Jedi still cannot use lightsabers, or rather they can, but rather, because of his lightness and slowness, they will cut off something for themselves, because they do not have the superpowers of a Jedi. In general, I can understand the creator of the post, even though I support hybridization, but the game with the initial structure of building classes, weapons and armor does not have the ideas that I see, so it's pointless to blame someone for this, it remains to play according to an already thought out scheme and where it goes. If armor and weapons would adapt and change class skills as in gw2 (although this rule only applies to equipped weapons there), it might be more interesting, but it is unlikely that anyone will bother because of this, significantly redoing the balance of the whole game

Braffin

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Expected a thread about hybridization tbh, which leads indeed to some problems with class identity, zos should adress.

But this... Sry bro, what you're complaining about isn't alone ESO but TES since the very beginning. Implementing gear and build restrictions on classes would be like taking away lightsabers from jedi and force them to use some phaser or so. Hard no for me.

but non-Jedi still cannot use lightsabers, or rather they can, but rather, because of his lightness and slowness, they will cut off something for themselves, because they do not have the superpowers of a Jedi. In general, I can understand the creator of the post, even though I support hybridization, but the game with the initial structure of building classes, weapons and armor does not have the ideas that I see, so it's pointless to blame someone for this, it remains to play according to an already thought out scheme and where it goes. If armor and weapons would adapt and change class skills as in gw2 (although this rule only applies to equipped weapons there), it might be more interesting, but it is unlikely that anyone will bother because of this, significantly redoing the balance of the whole game

Yeah, the analogy is limping, as most of them do

But nonetheless, implementing rigid gear restrictions regarding classes is something eso (and tes) never were about. The only things you'd achieve by doing so is killing off the identity of the whole franchise, as well as freedom of choice regarding character development.

GrimStyx

Braffin wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Expected a thread about hybridization tbh, which leads indeed to some problems with class identity, zos should adress.

But this... Sry bro, what you're complaining about isn't alone ESO but TES since the very beginning. Implementing gear and build restrictions on classes would be like taking away lightsabers from jedi and force them to use some phaser or so. Hard no for me.

but non-Jedi still cannot use lightsabers, or rather they can, but rather, because of his lightness and slowness, they will cut off something for themselves, because they do not have the superpowers of a Jedi. In general, I can understand the creator of the post, even though I support hybridization, but the game with the initial structure of building classes, weapons and armor does not have the ideas that I see, so it's pointless to blame someone for this, it remains to play according to an already thought out scheme and where it goes. If armor and weapons would adapt and change class skills as in gw2 (although this rule only applies to equipped weapons there), it might be more interesting, but it is unlikely that anyone will bother because of this, significantly redoing the balance of the whole game

Yeah, the analogy is limping, as most of them do

But nonetheless, implementing rigid gear restrictions regarding classes is something eso (and tes) never were about. The only things you'd achieve by doing so is killing off the identity of the whole franchise, as well as freedom of choice regarding character development.

what if I say that the identity of the same necro is also killed, we can refer to other parts of the scrolls, where the roleplaying of the necromancer is completely different than in eso, instead of normal undead pets we have pseudo, which are only a visual part of the ability, they do not tank , do not pull damage onto themselves, just like they practically do not inflict it, everything is done for the sake of balance, to which there are a lot of questions, so talking about the identity of the franchise, having MMOs on hand, with a completely different combat system than in single parts I don't see the point, people who talk about lore and identity, as a rule, turn a blind eye to those things that spoil this identity, this is strange

Braffin

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Expected a thread about hybridization tbh, which leads indeed to some problems with class identity, zos should adress.

But this... Sry bro, what you're complaining about isn't alone ESO but TES since the very beginning. Implementing gear and build restrictions on classes would be like taking away lightsabers from jedi and force them to use some phaser or so. Hard no for me.

but non-Jedi still cannot use lightsabers, or rather they can, but rather, because of his lightness and slowness, they will cut off something for themselves, because they do not have the superpowers of a Jedi. In general, I can understand the creator of the post, even though I support hybridization, but the game with the initial structure of building classes, weapons and armor does not have the ideas that I see, so it's pointless to blame someone for this, it remains to play according to an already thought out scheme and where it goes. If armor and weapons would adapt and change class skills as in gw2 (although this rule only applies to equipped weapons there), it might be more interesting, but it is unlikely that anyone will bother because of this, significantly redoing the balance of the whole game

Yeah, the analogy is limping, as most of them do

But nonetheless, implementing rigid gear restrictions regarding classes is something eso (and tes) never were about. The only things you'd achieve by doing so is killing off the identity of the whole franchise, as well as freedom of choice regarding character development.

what if I say that the identity of the same necro is also killed, we can refer to other parts of the scrolls, where the roleplaying of the necromancer is completely different than in eso, instead of normal undead pets we have pseudo, which are only a visual part of the ability, they do not tank , do not pull damage onto themselves, just like they practically do not inflict it, everything is done for the sake of balance, to which there are a lot of questions, so talking about the identity of the franchise, having MMOs on hand, with a completely different combat system than in single parts I don’t see the game of meaning, people who talk about lore and identity, as a rule, turn a blind eye to those things that spoil this identity, this is strange

Well, I don't talk about the lore here.

Fact is, that you're suggesting to change core mechanics of this game: freedom of choice and build diversity. You may counter, that there is no diversity when it comes to meta builds, but that's the same in every game. That's why we call it meta.

Fact is, you won't find any other game with a nearly big number of viable builds than this one. Why should we sacrifice this? What is won, if we forbid DKs going full magicka in light armor, as OP suggests? What do we gain by limiting sorcerers to light armor and magicka sets?

On top of that: Would it stop any of the behaviours OP is really complaining about? No, it wouldn't. Look at gw2, swtor, wow or any other mmo out there. Whole classes aren't viable for endgame content and if we go for meta the amount of possibilities is declining even more.

Coppes

Classes haven't changed much since the base game. If individuality is 'dead' now then it's always been dead.

GrimStyx

Braffin wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Expected a thread about hybridization tbh, which leads indeed to some problems with class identity, zos should adress.

But this... Sry bro, what you're complaining about isn't alone ESO but TES since the very beginning. Implementing gear and build restrictions on classes would be like taking away lightsabers from jedi and force them to use some phaser or so. Hard no for me.

but non-Jedi still cannot use lightsabers, or rather they can, but rather, because of his lightness and slowness, they will cut off something for themselves, because they do not have the superpowers of a Jedi. In general, I can understand the creator of the post, even though I support hybridization, but the game with the initial structure of building classes, weapons and armor does not have the ideas that I see, so it's pointless to blame someone for this, it remains to play according to an already thought out scheme and where it goes. If armor and weapons would adapt and change class skills as in gw2 (although this rule only applies to equipped weapons there), it might be more interesting, but it is unlikely that anyone will bother because of this, significantly redoing the balance of the whole game

Yeah, the analogy is limping, as most of them do

But nonetheless, implementing rigid gear restrictions regarding classes is something eso (and tes) never were about. The only things you'd achieve by doing so is killing off the identity of the whole franchise, as well as freedom of choice regarding character development.

what if I say that the identity of the same necro is also killed, we can refer to other parts of the scrolls, where the roleplaying of the necromancer is completely different than in eso, instead of normal undead pets we have pseudo, which are only a visual part of the ability, they do not tank , do not pull damage onto themselves, just like they practically do not inflict it, everything is done for the sake of balance, to which there are a lot of questions, so talking about the identity of the franchise, having MMOs on hand, with a completely different combat system than in single parts I don’t see the game of meaning, people who talk about lore and identity, as a rule, turn a blind eye to those things that spoil this identity, this is strange

Well, I don't talk about the lore here.

Fact is, that you're suggesting to change core mechanics of this game: freedom of choice and build diversity. You may counter, that there is no diversity when it comes to meta builds, but that's the same in every game. That's why we call it meta.

Fact is, you won't find any other game with a nearly big number of viable builds than this one. Why should we sacrifice this? What is won, if we forbid DKs going full magicka in light armor, as OP suggests? What do we gain by limiting sorcerers to light armor and magicka sets?

On top of that: Would it stop any of the behaviours OP is really complaining about? No, it wouldn't. Look at gw2, swtor, wow or any other mmo out there. Whole classes aren't viable for endgame content and if we go for meta the amount of possibilities is declining even more.

I agree that there is really more diversity in pve in terms of choosing sets, in comparison with what it was a few years ago, especially now ha builds have gained popularity, which everyone whines who does not play with this build, this is of course a plus , but also a minus, because they were completely removed from pvp, like crit builds, with the exception of broken builds through the mechanics, while contradicting the concept, play as you want, by the way about pvp, the meta in choosing sets has not changed very much, in any case it has changed a lot slowly, a lot of useless and unnecessary sets are being released for the sake of show, which do not find application, like the same vampire lord, which even after the rebalance is not even a middle or narrowly focused, but just a another useless set. Rallying, daedric trck, wretched, mechanica (especially broken on who? ofc on lovely dk), way of fire, draugrkin, master weapons, mythic Sets and Trainee cuirass still remain in the meta, well, each of them of course has its own parts build structure, however, there are not so many other effective variations, in the end we have exclusively meta sets, and other sets that are absolutely useless, you might say, look how many of the listed sets have accumulated, and then I have not listed everything, but, only in other games there is also no +100 sets, most of which are thrown into the trash, let's see how many sets are inoperative from the word at all, or not strong enough to even a little bit to compete with the current meta, the problem with zos is that they make mostly useless sets that need to either be redone or removed from the game and further introduce thoughtful sets that will actually be useful

GrimStyx

Braffin wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Expected a thread about hybridization tbh, which leads indeed to some problems with class identity, zos should adress.

But this... Sry bro, what you're complaining about isn't alone ESO but TES since the very beginning. Implementing gear and build restrictions on classes would be like taking away lightsabers from jedi and force them to use some phaser or so. Hard no for me.

but non-Jedi still cannot use lightsabers, or rather they can, but rather, because of his lightness and slowness, they will cut off something for themselves, because they do not have the superpowers of a Jedi. In general, I can understand the creator of the post, even though I support hybridization, but the game with the initial structure of building classes, weapons and armor does not have the ideas that I see, so it's pointless to blame someone for this, it remains to play according to an already thought out scheme and where it goes. If armor and weapons would adapt and change class skills as in gw2 (although this rule only applies to equipped weapons there), it might be more interesting, but it is unlikely that anyone will bother because of this, significantly redoing the balance of the whole game

Yeah, the analogy is limping, as most of them do

But nonetheless, implementing rigid gear restrictions regarding classes is something eso (and tes) never were about. The only things you'd achieve by doing so is killing off the identity of the whole franchise, as well as freedom of choice regarding character development.

what if I say that the identity of the same necro is also killed, we can refer to other parts of the scrolls, where the roleplaying of the necromancer is completely different than in eso, instead of normal undead pets we have pseudo, which are only a visual part of the ability, they do not tank , do not pull damage onto themselves, just like they practically do not inflict it, everything is done for the sake of balance, to which there are a lot of questions, so talking about the identity of the franchise, having MMOs on hand, with a completely different combat system than in single parts I don’t see the game of meaning, people who talk about lore and identity, as a rule, turn a blind eye to those things that spoil this identity, this is strange

Well, I don't talk about the lore here.

Fact is, that you're suggesting to change core mechanics of this game: freedom of choice and build diversity. You may counter, that there is no diversity when it comes to meta builds, but that's the same in every game. That's why we call it meta.

Fact is, you won't find any other game with a nearly big number of viable builds than this one. Why should we sacrifice this? What is won, if we forbid DKs going full magicka in light armor, as OP suggests? What do we gain by limiting sorcerers to light armor and magicka sets?

On top of that: Would it stop any of the behaviours OP is really complaining about? No, it wouldn't. Look at gw2, swtor, wow or any other mmo out there. Whole classes aren't viable for endgame content and if we go for meta the amount of possibilities is declining even more.

and also return viable builds through HA and crits to the same pvp, and bring weak classes such as templar, sorcerer, mana range nighblade and necro into an adequate form (especially necro, it hurts to look at and play on it), as well as finally fix this rubbish from the mechanical to the dk, and give him a few nerfs, then I will say that everything is fair

Braffin

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Expected a thread about hybridization tbh, which leads indeed to some problems with class identity, zos should adress.

But this... Sry bro, what you're complaining about isn't alone ESO but TES since the very beginning. Implementing gear and build restrictions on classes would be like taking away lightsabers from jedi and force them to use some phaser or so. Hard no for me.

but non-Jedi still cannot use lightsabers, or rather they can, but rather, because of his lightness and slowness, they will cut off something for themselves, because they do not have the superpowers of a Jedi. In general, I can understand the creator of the post, even though I support hybridization, but the game with the initial structure of building classes, weapons and armor does not have the ideas that I see, so it's pointless to blame someone for this, it remains to play according to an already thought out scheme and where it goes. If armor and weapons would adapt and change class skills as in gw2 (although this rule only applies to equipped weapons there), it might be more interesting, but it is unlikely that anyone will bother because of this, significantly redoing the balance of the whole game

Yeah, the analogy is limping, as most of them do

But nonetheless, implementing rigid gear restrictions regarding classes is something eso (and tes) never were about. The only things you'd achieve by doing so is killing off the identity of the whole franchise, as well as freedom of choice regarding character development.

what if I say that the identity of the same necro is also killed, we can refer to other parts of the scrolls, where the roleplaying of the necromancer is completely different than in eso, instead of normal undead pets we have pseudo, which are only a visual part of the ability, they do not tank , do not pull damage onto themselves, just like they practically do not inflict it, everything is done for the sake of balance, to which there are a lot of questions, so talking about the identity of the franchise, having MMOs on hand, with a completely different combat system than in single parts I don’t see the game of meaning, people who talk about lore and identity, as a rule, turn a blind eye to those things that spoil this identity, this is strange

Well, I don't talk about the lore here.

Fact is, that you're suggesting to change core mechanics of this game: freedom of choice and build diversity. You may counter, that there is no diversity when it comes to meta builds, but that's the same in every game. That's why we call it meta.

Fact is, you won't find any other game with a nearly big number of viable builds than this one. Why should we sacrifice this? What is won, if we forbid DKs going full magicka in light armor, as OP suggests? What do we gain by limiting sorcerers to light armor and magicka sets?

On top of that: Would it stop any of the behaviours OP is really complaining about? No, it wouldn't. Look at gw2, swtor, wow or any other mmo out there. Whole classes aren't viable for endgame content and if we go for meta the amount of possibilities is declining even more.

I agree that there is really more diversity in pve in terms of choosing sets, in comparison with what it was a few years ago, especially now ha builds have gained popularity, which everyone whines who does not play with this build, this is of course a plus , but also a minus, because they were completely removed from pvp, like crit builds, with the exception of broken builds through the mechanics, while contradicting the concept, play as you want, by the way about pvp, the meta in choosing sets has not changed very much, in any case it has changed a lot slowly, a lot of useless and unnecessary sets are being released for the sake of show, which do not find application, like the same vampire lord, which even after the rebalance is not even a middle or narrowly focused, but just a another useless set. Rallying, daedric trck, wretched, mechanica (especially broken on who? ofc on lovely dk), way of fire, draugrkin, master weapons, mythic Sets and Trainee cuirass still remain in the meta, well, each of them of course has its own parts build structure, however, there are not so many other effective variations, in the end we have exclusively meta sets, and other sets that are absolutely useless, you might say, look how many of the listed sets have accumulated, and then I have not listed everything, but, only in other games there is also no +100 sets, most of which are thrown into the trash, let's see how many sets are inoperative from the word at all, or not strong enough to even a little bit to compete with the current meta, the problem with zos is that they make mostly useless sets that need to either be redone or removed from the game and further introduce thoughtful sets that will actually be useful

I'll stay on topic (class identity), so just one question: Isn't the HA build you're referring to (sergeant's + noble + oakensoul + lightning staff) a prime example for killing off class identitiy, as it's basically the same build on every class? Armor is predeterminated, sets are predeterminated and weapon is predeterminated too, while class skills have little to no use. Seems quite the contrary of what you were advocating for

Tonturri

I think OP is aiming at the wrong thing, partially. I don't particularly care that anyone can use heavy armor, or a destro staff, medium armor, light armor, etc. These are...build options that are effectively (except weapon skills) passives that contribute to a final 'build'. It's nice to have these customisations and they serve an important basis for everything else.

What I don't like is the standardization of buffs. Everyone has a single generic armor buff now (with the exception of nightblades, and I like how theirs works). All of the armor buffs - DK spikes, necro armor, warden ice armor, arcanist armor skill - these are effectively morphs of each other I would expect to see in the same class. It's horribly boring how many skills across the classes are basically the same thing - nightblade funnel health, warden dive, destro staff force pulse, that necro skull thing.

Necro render flesh, nightblade malevolent offering, templar rushed ceremony.

There are so many skills that are basically just reskins of each other with minor variation to fit the theme and some different tertiary or secondary effects. That isn't the worst thing, per se, since there's only so many ways you can make a 'heal someone' skill, but it's ridiculous how rampant it is in ESO. Your bars are going to be full of generic buffs, probably generic spammable, burst skill, a few HoTs, heal, etc, and then whatever unique thing your class may have IF it has it - bolt escape, cloak, and so on. But no class has a single, unique thing that ties everything together to make for a fully unique experience. Not that I expect ZOS to be able to overhaul classes to add something like this, but eh. At least they're starting to make some progress, what with Crix and all...Like woo, congrats! They've discovered how to add in basic build-spend mechanics like every MMO has had for the past 20 years. Baby steps I guess.

Quethrosar

Forcing people to use medium armor as a wizard to do the most damage as a mage is [snip]

That's my gripe.

[edited for profanity bypass]

SandandStars

There is clear class identity in PvP:

DK n NB are incredibly skilled and dangerous warriors, Necro n Magsorc are clumsy, ineffectual wimps.

Luckylancer

All classes are same in ESO and most skills are reskins of each other. Just look at alcast's builds. 1 spammable, 1 pseudo spammable (blastbones, backlash, beetles), 1-2 class dot, barbed trap. back bar: an arena weapon skill, 2 dots. 2 flex spots that give same thing one way or another.

All spammables deal nearly same damage and cost the same. All classes have a pseudospammable cooldown skill. All classes have a magica costing class aoe ring that have a different colour. All classes have same armor buff with different secondary effect. Look at NB's major armor buff, it is different. It is a relic from old days of the game.

All classes can use all equipment and this kills equipment variety. There are a few BiS equipment. If all classes had different gears every class class would have different BiS equipment. This was the case. Scating mage was used on magNBs, burningspell weave was a mostly DK set etc.

AFAIK this is gilliam's idea for balancing the game and this ruined the diversity of the game.

Nihilr

If we really wanted diversity, classes would be split, and players can choose their flavor of stun, spammable, HoT, DoT, etc. Mix and match stuff, remove the buffs/debuffs and limit the number of abilities+pasives you can choose from (like champion points, only so many can be slotted).

Like, if we can only choose a max of 10 class skills from all original classes on characters, there wouldn't be a need for classes or to repec characters or let characters rot in the lobby for years until ZoS boosts them again. Character slots will always be full anyway because crafters and not wanting to pay for additional outfit slots.

Melzo

SandandStars wrote: »

There is clear class identity in PvP:

DK n NB are incredibly skilled and dangerous warriors, Necro n Magsorc are clumsy, ineffectual wimps.

It is very rude to compare a single class and a specific specification. The necromancer is generally crap, but the sorcerer has a lot of builds that allow you to deal almost twice as much damage as any necromancer builds. Under the conditions of hybridization of the build with a magical bias, this class is weaker, the same can be said about NB, only it has weaker stamina builds.

In terms of hybridization, it is necessary to compare the entire class and not a separate build or specification ..

MindOfTheSwarm

Rapt0rtech wrote: »

I’ve played ESO since day 1 and I can say 100% that the class individuality has almost died! The biggest culprit is the inclusion of everything for player characters. As a sorcerer you can wear heavy armour or even stamina sets. As a DK you can wear light armour and go full magicka.
It just seems that everyone playing just simply wants to know how much damage you can do or how tanky you are without really caring about what class you have. Countless other MMOs make your class feel needed when groups need a certain skill that only a specific class has access to. In ESO that need is very nearly completely vanished. One of the few times in matters is when trial groups need a Necro for Colossus.
I just feel like in allowing everyone to use everything the games classes become kind of pointless. Why play a class you like when this other one does more damage and so on. It takes away that individuality you have with your class because everyone can use everything anyway. It needs to change in my opinion.

Class identity does indeed exist and recently some changes have been made to push this. Warden for example has been given more Chill uptime as well as increased damage on Chilled targets. This was a good move to promote identity for the class.

NoticeMeArkay

My current pet peeve with class identity is the amount of sets one can use to be able to play the endgame content. ESO offers hundreds of different sets and thousands of different combinations but it feels like over 85% are mechanically useless in actual combat. Visiting ESOLOGS and taking a peak at normal, veteran and hm trials quickly reveals that every single class uses the same two to four sets for 2 bars and the same 2 sets for one bar in order to create damage that's high enough for the group content one applied for. No matter the class. It makes total sense that you can't build without any given thought to create these stats, but the amount of sets that allow for it is incredibly low. And I can't exactly play 'how I want' either because none of the sets I need to use in order to join trials fits the theme of my chosen class. I play a necromancer and I don't want to join the PoN+Rele or EK+WoD army. I want to build something that has me play a necromancer through both skills and set effects without taking my ability to run trials as more than just a burden. I want to stick to staffs but chosing those over DW and 2H almost comes off as trolling because the damage I lose through them is so bloody high.

I'd rather farm necromancy themed sets like Caluurion or Sul-Xan Tormentor and have those give me the necessary stat bonus I need for simply using them on a necromancer. Currently, playing how I want makes attending anything in regards of endgame content almost impossible because the calculated damage is so incredibly low that I'd rather set myself to anonymous in combat logs and refuse to take over any portal mechanics etc. In trials. I can't play how I want even tho I chose a necromancer all those years ago. I can cast windmagic and throw sharp stones tho.