ARCANIST SKILL COST

Astin_nds

Hi again, everybody.
Today I come to propose that you leave your opinions on what I am going to say next, because it seems to me a piece of information to take into account for the following patches on the arcanist.

The thing is that the arcanist, as we have already seen, everyone has good skills and damage, however it is not something new to see that his healing leaves something to be desired.
To avoid this we have the mechanics of using shields and using many skills in a short time and although we have a passive that gives us some magicka and stmina regeneration I think it falls short.
The issue is the following, we have to use a lot of shields, a lot of skills, roll a lot to dodge or block if you are a tank and the "bad" thing about this is the EXTREMELY HIGH cost of the skills, I have skills that cost me 4k of magicka and the one that costs me the least is 2.6k, with some reducers you can reach 2.4k or even 2.3k.
The fact is that this is even the spammable ability and if we have to accumulate the crux throw shields throw the skill that gives us a bit of regeneration of resources throw ground skills, throw a healing again etc having a regeneration of 1.7k or 2k costs me to maintain the survival of my resources.

The point is to see if you agree on this and see your opinions.

In pve it is a little more sustainable but it is well below the support of all other classes (Because of the need to spam skills and the high cost).
In pvp it is much more noticeable.

I would appreciate everyone leaving your opinion on the case.

Jestir

While it does have some other issues, especially in PvP where fatecarver is of limited use/not very good, I believe the sustain issue is a design choice to help balance the class along with the lack of a true burst heal

ZOS_Kraken

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

FeedbackOnly

I believe it's fair with arcantist having way more utility then any other class.

LittlePinkDot

Bleakz wrote: »

While it does have some other issues, especially in PvP where fatecarver is of limited use/not very good, I believe the sustain issue is a design choice to help balance the class along with the lack of a true burst heal

Isn't Runemend a burst heal?

CameraBeardThePirate

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

While it does have some other issues, especially in PvP where fatecarver is of limited use/not very good, I believe the sustain issue is a design choice to help balance the class along with the lack of a true burst heal

Isn't Runemend a burst heal?

Yes and no. It doesn't instantly pop you up like other burst heals, and the cost is rather high for the tooltip. You're better off using Impervious Runeward combined with Curative Surge while CC immune.

LittlePinkDot

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

While it does have some other issues, especially in PvP where fatecarver is of limited use/not very good, I believe the sustain issue is a design choice to help balance the class along with the lack of a true burst heal

Isn't Runemend a burst heal?

Yes and no. It doesn't instantly pop you up like other burst heals, and the cost is rather high for the tooltip. You're better off using Impervious Runeward combined with Curative Surge while CC immune.

Nah, I think I'll just use restoration staff backbar in that case.

I'm already planning on using Snipe and poison injection instead of beam or Rune blades.

If there's anything I've learned it's that weapon skill lines are the solution to every classes problems.

taugrim

Bleakz wrote: »

While it does have some other issues, especially in PvP where fatecarver is of limited use/not very good

If you believe this, you are not using Fatecarver correctly.

I was skeptical whether a 4.5-sec channel would work, esp for the morph that lacks the snare, but I've been playing a ton of Stamarc in med-to-high MMR BGs and it's just a matter of knowing when to use it, e.g. when there's a tunnel, after casting your class stun, and especially when you're fighting in the open and it will take time for a target to run out of range.

Cast_El

Astin_nds wrote: »

Hi again, everybody.
Today I come to propose that you leave your opinions on what I am going to say next, because it seems to me a piece of information to take into account for the following patches on the arcanist.

The thing is that the arcanist, as we have already seen, everyone has good skills and damage, however it is not something new to see that his healing leaves something to be desired.
To avoid this we have the mechanics of using shields and using many skills in a short time and although we have a passive that gives us some magicka and stmina regeneration I think it falls short.
The issue is the following, we have to use a lot of shields, a lot of skills, roll a lot to dodge or block if you are a tank and the "bad" thing about this is the EXTREMELY HIGH cost of the skills, I have skills that cost me 4k of magicka and the one that costs me the least is 2.6k, with some reducers you can reach 2.4k or even 2.3k.
The fact is that this is even the spammable ability and if we have to accumulate the crux throw shields throw the skill that gives us a bit of regeneration of resources throw ground skills, throw a healing again etc having a regeneration of 1.7k or 2k costs me to maintain the survival of my resources.

The point is to see if you agree on this and see your opinions.

In pve it is a little more sustainable but it is well below the support of all other classes (Because of the need to spam skills and the high cost).
In pvp it is much more noticeable.

I would appreciate everyone leaving your opinion on the case.

Not worst than templar skill cost. I am main templar for PvP and I sustain the arcanist easily with two reduce cost Magicka glyph,one infused + Jewel of misrule

NyassaV

Ya'll are having issue with sustain? Huh... I've had no issue at all. Arcanist has a passive that increases your regen by a % and by a stat amount, make sure you may attention to that.

fred4

The gist I hear from everyone is that Arcanist is different, unusually strong in some scenarios and unusually weak in others. I think we have to reserve judgement, but will add two points from my own experience:

1. Play a stam arc. Stamina morphs cost 20% (or thereabouts) less than magicka morphs. This is in line with the general rules of the game. Stamina is the resource for core combat, e.g. blocking, dodging, sprinting, bashing, that's why stamina morphs cost less. However you can partially or fully turn this on it's head, e.g. by blocking with an ice staff and tri-focus, or by wearing Stormweaver's Cavort. This makes Runemend and Runeblades much more affordable.
2. It's got to be possible to make something of the high regens that arc can achieve. High regen and high class skill cost means that weapon skills should be relatively cheaper, although I have not looked into this angle yet. I will say, however, that Esoteric Greaves work reasonably well for me, in PvP, on a stam arc. The same can not be said for all classes. I have about 2.6K unbuffed (no potion, no Continuous Attack) stam regen and 35K stamina on my arc.

Personally I'm forgetting about the shielding skills for the time being. I would go so far as to say they may be a red herring for PvP. Everyone seems to be jumping on the high health, shielding, Death-Dealer's bandwagon. I'm not convinced that's the way to go.

That said, the problem with the Esoteric Greaves is that they are brittle. They are about as situational as the class. Great as gank protection. I would go so far as to say you can't be ganked. Great against Dizzying Swing spammers or anyone that tries to burst you. Terrible against lightning heavy attacks, because those drain your stamina. Probably terrible, if you're standing in a Fatecarver yourself. Probably also terrible 1vX without LoSing a lot, but that's par for the course, so I don't know. It's very hard to evaluate the greaves, because every fibre of my being wants to block or dodge roll in certain situations. You have to consciously stop yourself and heal or stay on couterattack - do whatever minimizes your stamina use. So that's going to take a while to evaluate. That said I've found it relatively easy to keep stam up on my arc. Fatecarver is cheap, maybe just over 1K per second on Imperial.

Necrotech_Master

fred4 wrote: »

The gist I hear from everyone is that Arcanist is different, unusually strong in some scenarios and unusually weak in others. I think we have to reserve judgement, but will add two points from my own experience:

1. Play a stam arc. Stamina morphs cost 20% (or thereabouts) less than magicka morphs. This is in line with the general rules of the game. Stamina is the resource for core combat, e.g. blocking, dodging, sprinting, bashing, that's why stamina morphs cost less. However you can partially or fully turn this on it's head, e.g. by blocking with an ice staff and tri-focus, or by wearing Stormweaver's Cavort. This makes Runemend and Runeblades much more affordable.
2. It's got to be possible to make something of the high regens that arc can achieve. High regen and high class skill cost means that weapon skills should be relatively cheaper, although I have not looked into this angle yet. I will say, however, that Esoteric Greaves work reasonably well for me, in PvP, on a stam arc. The same can not be said for all classes. I have about 2.6K unbuffed (no potion, no Continuous Attack) stam regen and 35K stamina on my arc.

Personally I'm forgetting about the shielding skills for the time being. I would go so far as to say they may be a red herring for PvP. Everyone seems to be jumping on the high health, shielding, Death-Dealer's bandwagon. I'm not convinced that's the way to go.

That said, the problem with the Esoteric Greaves is that they are brittle. They are about as situational as the class. Great as gank protection. I would go so far as to say you can't be ganked. Great against Dizzying Swing spammers or anyone that tries to burst you. Terrible against lightning heavy attacks, because those drain your stamina. Probably terrible, if you're standing in a Fatecarver yourself. Probably also terrible 1vX without LoSing a lot, but that's par for the course, so I don't know. It's very hard to evaluate the greaves, because every fibre of my being wants to block or dodge roll in certain situations. You have to consciously stop yourself and heal or stay on couterattack - do whatever minimizes your stamina use. So that's going to take a while to evaluate. That said I've found it relatively easy to keep stam up on my arc. Fatecarver is cheap, maybe just over 1K per second on Imperial.

esoteric greaves should only be reducing your stam when they provide the mitigation, which should only be against direct dmg (not dots)

2 of the 3 ticks of lightning staff heavy are considered a dot, if those are triggering the esoteric greaves then something is wrong with them

now against something like a templar jabs or someone flurry spamming, yeah the greaves are not going to work well

thedoodle_90

Its even worse now that they nerfed crux into the ground as you have to constantly generate it to even keep some of your passives. Also on any PVE where the boss makes you break free randomly or throws a stun at a random party member the dps need massive sustain because your fate carvers are interrupted. They need to bring back infinite crux and give people a reason to hold onto crux more.

fred4

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

The gist I hear from everyone is that Arcanist is different, unusually strong in some scenarios and unusually weak in others. I think we have to reserve judgement, but will add two points from my own experience:

1. Play a stam arc. Stamina morphs cost 20% (or thereabouts) less than magicka morphs. This is in line with the general rules of the game. Stamina is the resource for core combat, e.g. blocking, dodging, sprinting, bashing, that's why stamina morphs cost less. However you can partially or fully turn this on it's head, e.g. by blocking with an ice staff and tri-focus, or by wearing Stormweaver's Cavort. This makes Runemend and Runeblades much more affordable.
2. It's got to be possible to make something of the high regens that arc can achieve. High regen and high class skill cost means that weapon skills should be relatively cheaper, although I have not looked into this angle yet. I will say, however, that Esoteric Greaves work reasonably well for me, in PvP, on a stam arc. The same can not be said for all classes. I have about 2.6K unbuffed (no potion, no Continuous Attack) stam regen and 35K stamina on my arc.

Personally I'm forgetting about the shielding skills for the time being. I would go so far as to say they may be a red herring for PvP. Everyone seems to be jumping on the high health, shielding, Death-Dealer's bandwagon. I'm not convinced that's the way to go.

That said, the problem with the Esoteric Greaves is that they are brittle. They are about as situational as the class. Great as gank protection. I would go so far as to say you can't be ganked. Great against Dizzying Swing spammers or anyone that tries to burst you. Terrible against lightning heavy attacks, because those drain your stamina. Probably terrible, if you're standing in a Fatecarver yourself. Probably also terrible 1vX without LoSing a lot, but that's par for the course, so I don't know. It's very hard to evaluate the greaves, because every fibre of my being wants to block or dodge roll in certain situations. You have to consciously stop yourself and heal or stay on couterattack - do whatever minimizes your stamina use. So that's going to take a while to evaluate. That said I've found it relatively easy to keep stam up on my arc. Fatecarver is cheap, maybe just over 1K per second on Imperial.

esoteric greaves should only be reducing your stam when they provide the mitigation, which should only be against direct dmg (not dots)

2 of the 3 ticks of lightning staff heavy are considered a dot, if those are triggering the esoteric greaves then something is wrong with them

now against something like a templar jabs or someone flurry spamming, yeah the greaves are not going to work well

It's possible I screwed up by instinctively blocking at the same time.