Play However You Want...Unless It's As The Vestige

CoolBlast3

Just a small rant of mine. Whilst I appreciate ZOS' effort to make sure players can play in whatever order, even without playing the original main quest at all, I am a bit sick of well- that main quest being ignored throughout the game.

This happens in every chapter, every dlc, every story- but in Necrom particularly it annoyed me.
NECROM MAIN QUEST SPOILER FREE

At one point in the main quest, a daedric NPC tells you something along the lines of "Be careful mortal, Daedra may reform when we die, but you will not." When...that's just incorrect? That's our entire gimmick- being an immortal warrior. (And no, getting your soul back does not canonically take that power away, we are still made of Azure Plasm)

What annoyed me the most was this one sidequest, the Numinous Grimmoire.
SIDEQUEST SPOILER
The sidequest is about a mortal trying to become immortal through a rite which "unmoors a living soul" and which fuels this immortality by "consuming something, the souls of others in this case".
Sounds familiar to the Vestige right? Hell, "Numinous" was the alpha ESO term for the Vestige. Of course however, we don't have a single way of interacting with this, not even a throwaway line of "hey, that's sort of like me!"

This happens in *every* gods damn chapter. In Blackwood's prologue there was a ward which blocked out daedra. We can argue that our mortal soul protects us from it...but our body is daedric (azure plasm) and that isn't brought up either!

I'm not asking ZOS to remove this freedom of any playthrough timeline, but please, just like you guys make efforts for everyone elses' play order with misc dialogues that only appear depending on what we've done, can we also have some optional dialogues that at the very minimum allow us to bring up our immortality or partial daedric-ness?

EX:
NPC: "Be careful mortal, Daedra may reform when we die, but you will not."
Player: "About that..."
NPC: "Ah, still, be wary, death is painful regardless"

Something this simple and throwaway-y would help keep immersion for us that actually care about the original main quest and The Vestige as a character. It just saddens me you guys go through all this effort for people that play in non-release order and completely throw those that do play in release order under the bus so to speak..

Dr_Con

The Vestige is destined to be the one who is to be forgotten.

Elsonso

Dr_Con wrote: »

The Vestige is destined to be the one who is to be forgotten.

Right. By the time the 3rd Era comes around, everyone has forgotten.

Another annoying thing about them abandoning the whole Wailing Prison and main quest is that there are still plenty of places where the character is apparently uniquely qualified for the job because they stand out as not having a soul. Except... they haven't lost their soul yet. That is yet to happen, when they stop dodging the hooded figure in every major city of the three alliances.

I just wish they had someone in place that was tasked with story continuity across the chapters. Maybe that is a lesson that their other game can learn from so that they avoid what happened to ESO.

chessalavakia_ESO

DC Story Line Spoiler:

My impression was that it wasn't well known in-universe that the Vestige would reform. I assumed that Septima Tharn was ahead of the pack in realizing it and attempting to mitigate it.


Septima Tharn: "Hush now, Emeric. Your death matters little—there are other kings. It's this one I wanted. The one who's been holding the Covenant together at every turn. The vestige from Coldharbour."
<...>
Septima Tharn: "Didn't think I knew, did you? I did, and I knew I couldn't kill you … on Mundus. Here though, you're severed from Coldharbour, from your soul. Here, you're stuck. Goodbye now."

ArchMikem

ZOS made this writing "decision" years ago with the release of One Tamriel. In order to facilitate every player who would rather choose exactly where to start playing no matter what, they've neglected cohesive story telling, and with every subsequent Chapter they made it so all the new players coming into the game were plopped right into the very content that more or less sold them on buying the game, the idea being, if a customer bought the game because they saw the advertising for Summerset, or Elsweyr, but the game drops them in Coldharbour which then takes them to their Alliance starting zone, they're gonna start wondering where the fancy new content is.

And this creates numerous continuity problems. The Vestige can play anywhere in the world, at any time. In ZOS' attempt to mitigate confusion for the new player, somehow, they've written it so everything in the game world is happening at the same exact time more or less, with the Planemeld Questline being the "Prequel", but even then they let you do the Planemeld AFTER everything else.

I'd fully support content locks, in order to create a stable narrative. Force us down a linear path, I really don't care. So long as the story and passage of time makes sense.

Tessitura

Honestly, I like that they never acknowledge the original main story anymore. It was bad, like really bad. Written by people who did not know the lore and did not care about good story telling or character work. Mannimarco was basically Skeletor, other then Abnur the companions were as milk toast as it got, with no personality, and the ending made Mass Effect 3's ending look like the Godfather's. ALSO, the quests were boring.

They could remove the entire thing from the game and I wouldn't care less.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

To be fair they call you mortal even if your a Vampire and here is the thing...

Go the Feral Gallery, their is a Vampire Lord in their in what is called the "Immortal's Exhibit" alongside several Daedra which mean that Hermaeus Mora, the Daedric Prince of Knowledge considers them Immortals so a random Dremora has no authority on the matter, the ability to revive oneself is irrelevant to that fact.

Also it is not as if that Daedra knows anything about you, they do not know your a Prisoner much less the Vestige, half of the enemies you go up against would probably be terrified of you if they did.

TaSheen

Tessitura wrote: »

Honestly, I like that they never acknowledge the original main story anymore. It was bad, like really bad. Written by people who did not know the lore and did not care about good story telling or character work. Mannimarco was basically Skeletor, other then Abnur the companions were as milk toast as it got, with no personality, and the ending made Mass Effect 3's ending look like the Godfather's. ALSO, the quests were boring.

They could remove the entire thing from the game and I wouldn't care less.

Agreed. I've done the MQ twice and that was quite enough of that.

Dr_Con

Tessitura wrote: »

Honestly, I like that they never acknowledge the original main story anymore. It was bad, like really bad. Written by people who did not know the lore and did not care about good story telling or character work. Mannimarco was basically Skeletor, other then Abnur the companions were as milk toast as it got, with no personality, and the ending made Mass Effect 3's ending look like the Godfather's. ALSO, the quests were boring.

They could remove the entire thing from the game and I wouldn't care less.

Is there anything about this game that you like?

Sarannah

This is the way I understand it: Through the storylines it is made clear the Vestige(us) is simply a regular mortal, but can't be killed on Nirn due to how we lost our soul. Causing us to respawn when we 'die'.

This is also why at the hall of heroes(final Bangkorai main quest) the main enemy takes us to an in-between place, as she knows we are the Vestige and can't be killed on Nirn.

The reason everyone during quests states/thinks we can die or thinks they can kill us, is because we are basically a regular mortal and none of them have the power to sense we have no soul. To them we are just regular mortals. Only some rare beings can sense this about the Vestige. Though some NPC's do recognize us as different, they most often cannot sense how we are different or even why. (during the Stormhaven main quest not even Azura notices this about us(Vestige), it is only after we start completing tasks for her followers that she takes a closer look at us and tells us we are special and she will keep an eye on us from now on)

So NPC's stating we are normally dying mortals, is following the storyline.

PS: Not sure how this Vestige respawning/immortality works exactly in Daedric realms, and if we are immortal there. But on Nirn we are.
PPS: The reason we are stronger than everyone else, is because we do things that grant us power: Unlock skilllines, gain powerful gear, gather skyshards, etc. Things other NPC's do not do.

Edit: Loved the main quest!
Edit 2: Most NPC's have no clue that a Vestige even exists or what that is, nor why daedric dolmens are opening. Only the companions and a very few select NPC's know about the Vestige. So really noone will recognize the player as such.

Ragnarok0130

Tessitura wrote: »

Honestly, I like that they never acknowledge the original main story anymore. It was bad, like really bad. Written by people who did not know the lore and did not care about good story telling or character work. Mannimarco was basically Skeletor, other then Abnur the companions were as milk toast as it got, with no personality, and the ending made Mass Effect 3's ending look like the Godfather's. ALSO, the quests were boring.

They could remove the entire thing from the game and I wouldn't care less.

I OTOH thoroughly enjoy the main quest and complete it as well as the fighters guild and mages guild quest lines on every character both due to the later implications and the copious skill point awards. The alliance quests I am open to skipping as most of those if I'm in a rush only to come back to them later as they are rather bland.

M_Volsung

Dr_Con wrote: »

The Vestige is destined to be the one who is to be forgotten.

Which I find funny, because I imagine my character, ancient to the point she almost looks like a draugr, blasting into Mistveil Keep in TESV and just bellowing at them "WHAT DID YOU DO TO MY HOUSE?!"

CoolBlast3

Sarannah wrote: »

This is the way I understand it: Through the storylines it is made clear the Vestige(us) is simply a regular mortal, but can't be killed on Nirn due to how we lost our soul. Causing us to respawn when we 'die'.

This is also why at the hall of heroes(final Bangkorai main quest) the main enemy takes us to an in-between place, as she knows we are the Vestige and can't be killed on Nirn.

The reason everyone during quests states/thinks we can die or thinks they can kill us, is because we are basically a regular mortal and none of them have the power to sense we have no soul. To them we are just regular mortals. Only some rare beings can sense this about the Vestige. Though some NPC's do recognize us as different, they most often cannot sense how we are different or even why. (during the Stormhaven main quest not even Azura notices this about us(Vestige), it is only after we start completing tasks for her followers that she takes a closer look at us and tells us we are special and she will keep an eye on us from now on)

So NPC's stating we are normally dying mortals, is following the storyline.

PS: Not sure how this Vestige respawning/immortality works exactly in Daedric realms, and if we are immortal there. But on Nirn we are.
PPS: The reason we are stronger than everyone else, is because we do things that grant us power: Unlock skilllines, gain powerful gear, gather skyshards, etc. Things other NPC's do not do.

Edit: Loved the main quest!
Edit 2: Most NPC's have no clue that a Vestige even exists or what that is, nor why daedric dolmens are opening. Only the companions and a very few select NPC's know about the Vestige. So really noone will recognize the player as such.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

To be fair they call you mortal even if your a Vampire and here is the thing...

Go the Feral Gallery, their is a Vampire Lord in their in what is called the "Immortal's Exhibit" alongside several Daedra which mean that Hermaeus Mora, the Daedric Prince of Knowledge considers them Immortals so a random Dremora has no authority on the matter, the ability to revive oneself is irrelevant to that fact.

Also it is not as if that Daedra knows anything about you, they do not know your a Prisoner much less the Vestige, half of the enemies you go up against would probably be terrified of you if they did.

I think people are misunderstanding me.
I am not asking to lock linearity, even if I would prefer it, ZOS would never do it and many don't want it.
I am not saying every NPC must know we're immortal.
I'm not saying to bring it up literally everywhere and make it a quest point again.

I am asking for the option to still RP as the Vestige, just like ZOS gives people the option to not RP as them. It is annoying that they're literally re-using old Vestige content (Numinous) without even giving us the option to interact with it. We should have the option.
They give those who play out of order the options to have unique dialogues based on that, such as doing Y quest in new content having dialogue for when you meet said NPC again in older content. I don't see why we can't have the options of also telling NPCs to bugger off when they act all high and mighty immortality wise with us. Are options in a RPG a bad thing now? Or are they only good when they're for those who dislike the main quest lol

kargen27

I don't see any reason for most NPCs to have any idea that you are something special. Nor do I see any particular reason for you to let them know. Kind of like giving away a tactical advantage.

Braffin

In think the Vestige is some sort of shezarrine (avatar of lorkhan), so indeed mortal (in a way), as described in the book "Chaotic Creatia: The Azure Plasm". If he dies, he isn't just pretending to do so, but indeed vanishes.
After that a new body is formed out of his "intrinsic anuic aspect", which is different from the a regular soul. (Think about Varen's words about Lorkhan when you consume the first skyshard.)

Think about the stories about Pelinal Whitestrake. None of them are fitting each other, as does the story of the Vestige. I indeed believe freezing the game in 2E 582 isn't solely out of gameplay reasons. Time itself is bending to the needs of this being, who's only purpose is to defend the mechanism Lorkhan built (Mundus).

The Vestige isn't aware of that of course, as is no one else. That's why memory about him is fading (causing all the odd dialogue choices).

chessalavakia_ESO

CoolBlast3 wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

This is the way I understand it: Through the storylines it is made clear the Vestige(us) is simply a regular mortal, but can't be killed on Nirn due to how we lost our soul. Causing us to respawn when we 'die'.

This is also why at the hall of heroes(final Bangkorai main quest) the main enemy takes us to an in-between place, as she knows we are the Vestige and can't be killed on Nirn.

The reason everyone during quests states/thinks we can die or thinks they can kill us, is because we are basically a regular mortal and none of them have the power to sense we have no soul. To them we are just regular mortals. Only some rare beings can sense this about the Vestige. Though some NPC's do recognize us as different, they most often cannot sense how we are different or even why. (during the Stormhaven main quest not even Azura notices this about us(Vestige), it is only after we start completing tasks for her followers that she takes a closer look at us and tells us we are special and she will keep an eye on us from now on)

So NPC's stating we are normally dying mortals, is following the storyline.

PS: Not sure how this Vestige respawning/immortality works exactly in Daedric realms, and if we are immortal there. But on Nirn we are.
PPS: The reason we are stronger than everyone else, is because we do things that grant us power: Unlock skilllines, gain powerful gear, gather skyshards, etc. Things other NPC's do not do.

Edit: Loved the main quest!
Edit 2: Most NPC's have no clue that a Vestige even exists or what that is, nor why daedric dolmens are opening. Only the companions and a very few select NPC's know about the Vestige. So really noone will recognize the player as such.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

To be fair they call you mortal even if your a Vampire and here is the thing...

Go the Feral Gallery, their is a Vampire Lord in their in what is called the "Immortal's Exhibit" alongside several Daedra which mean that Hermaeus Mora, the Daedric Prince of Knowledge considers them Immortals so a random Dremora has no authority on the matter, the ability to revive oneself is irrelevant to that fact.

Also it is not as if that Daedra knows anything about you, they do not know your a Prisoner much less the Vestige, half of the enemies you go up against would probably be terrified of you if they did.

I think people are misunderstanding me.
I am not asking to lock linearity, even if I would prefer it, ZOS would never do it and many don't want it.
I am not saying every NPC must know we're immortal.
I'm not saying to bring it up literally everywhere and make it a quest point again.

I am asking for the option to still RP as the Vestige, just like ZOS gives people the option to not RP as them. It is annoying that they're literally re-using old Vestige content (Numinous) without even giving us the option to interact with it. We should have the option.
They give those who play out of order the options to have unique dialogues based on that, such as doing Y quest in new content having dialogue for when you meet said NPC again in older content. I don't see why we can't have the options of also telling NPCs to bugger off when they act all high and mighty immortality wise with us. Are options in a RPG a bad thing now? Or are they only good when they're for those who dislike the main quest lol

The thing is, when you add a choice you also need to consider the consequences for that choice.

Realistically speaking, the individuals that you are talking to are not necessarily going to believe you and you've got a decent chance they'll make another dig at you.

I suppose at that point we could have an option for your character to demonstrate but, that could be problematic for IRL reasons.

If you actually have managed to persuade the individual that you are immortal, you then have to deal with the consequences of them attempting to use it against you in the future or them letting other parties know and having them attempting to do so.

Plus, my impression is that many of the npcs that are acting high and mighty are doing so because they like behaving in that fashion and not merely because they think you are a mortal.

Hurbster

kargen27 wrote: »

I don't see any reason for most NPCs to have any idea that you are something special. Nor do I see any particular reason for you to let them know. Kind of like giving away a tactical advantage.

On the level of blurting out you are a member of the Dark Brotherhood, yes.

EramTheLiar

I think about this a lot and I think there are two problems that need to be fixed in order for there to be more continuity, and honestly I don't know how complicated each are.

The first isbthe game needs some way to track not just level progression but story progression. And to a very precise level of detail: character is Vestige AND did covenant arc BUT has not done cadwells silver or gold AND is doing Summerset arc BUT has not done clockwork city is should have different conversations with sotha sil than someone who has done the Pact arc AND morrowind AND clockwork city BUT never started the Vestige arc (it's possible to do this) and keeping track of all the possible branches and how far along them you are requires a personal database for each character that does not appear to exist. I keep thinking the easiest way to do this is to give the character undroppable "mementos" (that don't take up inventory space) that the game can scan to see what your character has done.

Second, you'd have to pay all those voice actors to speak a bunch of new lines for old content and those Iines would NOT sound the same because it's been years. But recording all those lines requires first figuring out what specific situations they need to cover.

Instead, I just assume Molag Bal caused a dragon break when the attempted the plane meld and parts of my character's life are occurring out of order. He just rolls with it.

Kesstryl

EramTheLiar wrote: »

I think about this a lot and I think there are two problems that need to be fixed in order for there to be more continuity, and honestly I don't know how complicated each are.

The first isbthe game needs some way to track not just level progression but story progression. And to a very precise level of detail: character is Vestige AND did covenant arc BUT has not done cadwells silver or gold AND is doing Summerset arc BUT has not done clockwork city is should have different conversations with sotha sil than someone who has done the Pact arc AND morrowind AND clockwork city BUT never started the Vestige arc (it's possible to do this) and keeping track of all the possible branches and how far along them you are requires a personal database for each character that does not appear to exist. I keep thinking the easiest way to do this is to give the character undroppable "mementos" (that don't take up inventory space) that the game can scan to see what your character has done.

Second, you'd have to pay all those voice actors to speak a bunch of new lines for old content and those Iines would NOT sound the same because it's been years. But recording all those lines requires first figuring out what specific situations they need to cover.

Instead, I just assume Molag Bal caused a dragon break when the attempted the plane meld and parts of my character's life are occurring out of order. He just rolls with it.

It shouldn't need a separate database, it can query each character's quest progress (an already existing database) in exactly those things you mentioned. It would only need additional voice lines and a programming logic tree that hits each of those points you mentioned to get to the final voice line appropriate for that character and where they currently are. It's not impossible with the current technology, they only need to pay for additional voice lines and really small scripts for the major NPCs.

Michae

Maybe it's Kenny from South Park kind of deal? Kenny dies all the time, and yet no one remembers this. It could be the same with the Vestige. It's their superpower, and a curse at the same time.

As for messy timeline it's clear that all of ESO is happening during the Dragon Break, which is a plotpoint originally invented to adress Daggerfalls multiple endings in later games. Basically it meant that all of the endings (and none of the endings) happened all at once, and multiple people remember it differentely. Dragon Break in lore sort of unravels the reality, and strange things are possible. There can be multiple iterations of the same hero, they can be in many places at once, and events that contradict eachother can happen simultaniousely. And after the break ends, nobody really remembers, or they remember only one timeline each, except they get the feeling that something weird happened. Which could explain absence of many of ESO plotlines being mentioned in third and fourth Era. Of course it's very bare bones explenation, I'm not a lore expert.

And hey, it's just a theory, a forum theory!

Gameplaywise I just try to do questlines in order. It's really not that hard to keep the chronology right if you try. Just do the base game quests zone by zone, only ignoring the prologue quest givers in hub cities (you can check who they aro on uesp.net although usually they are quite obvious). Then just go by the dlc order, the dlc's are quite self contained, and don't have "foreign" quests in their zones. Zone guide also helps in remembering where you should go next, if you are in the right zone already of course.

EramTheLiar

Kesstryl wrote: »

EramTheLiar wrote: »

I think about this a lot and I think there are two problems that need to be fixed in order for there to be more continuity, and honestly I don't know how complicated each are.

The first isbthe game needs some way to track not just level progression but story progression. And to a very precise level of detail: character is Vestige AND did covenant arc BUT has not done cadwells silver or gold AND is doing Summerset arc BUT has not done clockwork city is should have different conversations with sotha sil than someone who has done the Pact arc AND morrowind AND clockwork city BUT never started the Vestige arc (it's possible to do this) and keeping track of all the possible branches and how far along them you are requires a personal database for each character that does not appear to exist. I keep thinking the easiest way to do this is to give the character undroppable "mementos" (that don't take up inventory space) that the game can scan to see what your character has done.

Second, you'd have to pay all those voice actors to speak a bunch of new lines for old content and those Iines would NOT sound the same because it's been years. But recording all those lines requires first figuring out what specific situations they need to cover.

Instead, I just assume Molag Bal caused a dragon break when the attempted the plane meld and parts of my character's life are occurring out of order. He just rolls with it.

It shouldn't need a separate database, it can query each character's quest progress (an already existing database) in exactly those things you mentioned. It would only need additional voice lines and a programming logic tree that hits each of those points you mentioned to get to the final voice line appropriate for that character and where they currently are. It's not impossible with the current technology, they only need to pay for additional voice lines and really small scripts for the major NPCs.

Well, I think it would probably be easier to create a second database than it would to try to mod the current one, because you'd have less chance of breaking the current one by leaving it alone. Adding more writes and tracking more things (a LOT more writes and a LOT more things) just feels safer on something new, that way if it really breaks you can just wipe it and start over without wrecking, you know, the entire rest of the game.

But "it would only need" is I think a dangerous underestimation of the complexity of what's being tracked. There are a LOT of variables, and it's not just variables for one player in a single player game, it's every player currently logged in to the game having conversations with NPCs. If a game wasn't built from the ground up with that level of detail in mind (which I think ESO probably wasn't, because when it first came out it was a LOT more linear and it just needed to keep track of things like "who was the sacrifice" and "did you let mannimarco go free" rather than "did you complete orsinium before you became the vestige, making the final conversation at the very very end of the entire arc a little out of context" or "is this delve the first time you meet Kireth and Raynor, or should they remember you from coldharbor, or should they NOT remember you because you're doing Caldwell's Gold and Magic is Making Them Forget?"

I suspect tracking and untangling all of that would be ridiculously complicated, at this point. I would love to see it done. I'm not sure how much of the game they'd have to change to do it. I suspect if they devoted the time to doing it the PvPers would complain though

Holycannoli

Every character should always start in the Wailing Prison, as it was in the beginning. From there there should be options on where to go, with that portal system.

TaSheen

Holycannoli wrote: »

Every character should always start in the Wailing Prison, as it was in the beginning. From there there should be options on where to go, with that portal system.

No thank you. I'm fine with getting to skip the tutorials entirely.

EramTheLiar

Holycannoli wrote: »

Every character should always start in the Wailing Prison, as it was in the beginning. From there there should be options on where to go, with that portal system.

While in theory I agree with that, practically I don't. Enticing potential new players with a new release (like Necrom) only to force them to play through 2014 content before getting to the thing that captured their interest seems... unfair.

EDIT: Sorry, I misread your original post! You mean basically put the balfiera portals in the wailing prison. That's an interesting idea, and I think I *do* agree with that. Though I would also want the opportunity to overhaul the wailing prison itself.

Braffin

Holycannoli wrote: »

Every character should always start in the Wailing Prison, as it was in the beginning. From there there should be options on where to go, with that portal system.

Is there any reason for this besides personal preference?

EramTheLiar

TaSheen wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Every character should always start in the Wailing Prison, as it was in the beginning. From there there should be options on where to go, with that portal system.

No thank you. I'm fine with getting to skip the tutorials entirely.

I would have the wailing prison have two starting points: one where you wake up in prison, overpower a guard to escape (that's your combat tutorial), and then you run into Lyris in a hallway, and one where you wake up in prison, and Lyris busts you out (that's you skipping the tutorial) which would be used if you skipped everything and landed in the latest DLC, only to talk to mysterious hooded figure, etc, etc.

At the end, the Prophet does his "Akatosh, dragon guard of time" speech to power up a crystal and open all the portals, and you jump through whichever one you want to progress further, though the Stros M'kai, Bleakrock, and Khenarthi's Roost choices would dump you in the water and start you off with you being fished out of the drink.

ApoAlaia

The Vestige might be an SCP with both cognitohazardous and antimemetic properties.

Abavarlor.

Braffin

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

DC Story Line Spoiler:

My impression was that it wasn't well known in-universe that the Vestige would reform. I assumed that Septima Tharn was ahead of the pack in realizing it and attempting to mitigate it.


Septima Tharn: "Hush now, Emeric. Your death matters little—there are other kings. It's this one I wanted. The one who's been holding the Covenant together at every turn. The vestige from Coldharbour."
<...>
Septima Tharn: "Didn't think I knew, did you? I did, and I knew I couldn't kill you … on Mundus. Here though, you're severed from Coldharbour, from your soul. Here, you're stuck. Goodbye now."

You're indeed right about Septima Tharn. She was definitely getting closer to the truth than most others speculating about the Vestige's real nature. But ultimately her plan couldn't succeed because if you somehow manage to die in Aetherius you'll respawn nonetheless.

So I assume her theory, although well considered, is wrong in the end.

spartaxoxo

Most characters have no clue you're the vestige. Even some powerful ones only realize it later and are surprised.

Jaraal

CoolBlast3 wrote: »

Something this simple and throwaway-y would help keep immersion for us that actually care about the original main quest and The Vestige as a character. It just saddens me you guys go through all this effort for people that play in non-release order and completely throw those that do play in release order under the bus so to speak..

If you think it's confusing for us, imagine being a non-Vestige character in the main story and volunteering to make the ultimate sacrifice to save Tamriel..... only to wake up one day and find that your sacrifice actually meant nothing and now your new day job is to sell chapters to a revolving door of Vestiges who, by Arkay's beard (and a whole lotta Champion Points), are pretty darn good in a fight.

EramTheLiar

Yes, if you don't choose the one they expect you to choose to do the thing, and then the one you chose shows up later to do some other thing, I imagine there are questions that are not answered to anyone's satisfaction.