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This doesn't make any sense

Rageypoo
Rageypoo
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One handed weapons offer half the power of a 2-handed weapons when enchanted, and only counts as 1 set piece, where a 2-handed weapon counts as 2...yet they both require the same mats to gold.

Thoughts?
  • Tenthirty2
    Tenthirty2
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    I never noticed that before, interesting observation.

    It doesn't really bother me I spose but I agree the mat cost is a little odd.
    I guess if they changed it to make logical sense you would expect 2H, thus larger weapons, to use a bit more materials. Versus something like a dagger which should cost almost half what it would take to gold a regular 1H weapon.
    • "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs - horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
    • "When my time comes, I will smile. And that will be all." -Sir Nathain Galien
    • IGN: TenThirty2 (PC/PS: NA, PC/PS: EU)
  • Braffin
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    You're right. Zos should double the amount of mats needed to improve 2-handed weapons to bring them in line with every other piece of equipment 🤔😆
    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • Rageypoo
    Rageypoo
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    Braffin wrote: »
    You're right. Zos should double the amount of mats needed to improve 2-handed weapons to bring them in line with every other piece of equipment 🤔😆

    OR...and this is gonna sound crazy, lets make 1 handed weapons/shields cost half the mats that a 2-hander costs.
  • Braffin
    Braffin
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    Rageypoo wrote: »
    Braffin wrote: »
    You're right. Zos should double the amount of mats needed to improve 2-handed weapons to bring them in line with every other piece of equipment 🤔😆

    OR...and this is gonna sound crazy, lets make 1 handed weapons/shields cost half the mats that a 2-hander costs.

    Yeah, that sounds crazy indeed, given the fact that every piece of equipment has exactly the same improvement cost per slot filled, except 2-handed weapons (at least since zos finally changed them to provide better enchantments and let them count as two set-pieces after years of begging them to do so).
    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • phaneub17_ESO
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    Two-handed weapons originally counted as 1 item in a set not 2 as it does now. They were considered inferior to 1h and shield or dual-wield because having a two-handed weapons and staves limited you to 11 items for sets not 12. The 2-piece arena weapon bonuses used to unique weapon enchants allowing two-handed and staves to have those set bonus effects.

    This argument is basically the same, but in reverse.
  • Snamyap
    Snamyap
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    Same goes for reconstructing.
  • ApoAlaia
    ApoAlaia
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    A fortunate oversight.

    Between halving the 'tempering' costs of 1H weapons or doubling the costs of 2H weapons guess which avenue ZOS would choose?

    Same with enchanting... we don't have 1/2 glyphs so the path of minimum resistance is to double the glyph requirements to enchant 2H weapons.

    I am going to say 'let the sleeping dogs lie' with this one and just park it along with wearing rings that weigh in excess of 3Kg or skeevers carrying plate armour in their bellies...

    'Rules of the Wasteland Codsworth, rules of the Wasteland...'

    Edited by ApoAlaia on June 12, 2023 8:57AM
  • Kite42
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    Transmutes is more annoying tbh
  • SeaGtGruff
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    You can wield two one-handed weapons at once, thus letting you double your damage while also giving you the opportunity to benefit from two different weapon traits and two different weapon enchantments. It seems to me like two-handed weapons still have a disadvantage.

    As for things like tempering mats and transmute crystals, they cost the same for everything else, too-- for instance, a girdle takes just as many of those to improve or transmute as a cuirass does, despite the differences in their armor protection and their effective amounts of armor enchantments.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • Jarl_Ironheart
    Jarl_Ironheart
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    No change needed. It's been this away for a little while and there has been no issues. Getting gold mats isn't hard. No need to buff dual wielding even more with making it easier to upgrade
    Push Posh Applesauce, Pocket Full of Marmalade.
  • jtm1018
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    Rageypoo wrote: »
    One handed weapons offer half the power of a 2-handed weapons when enchanted, and only counts as 1 set piece, where a 2-handed weapon counts as 2...yet they both require the same mats to gold.

    Thoughts?

    It just works!
  • wilykcat
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    I thought dual weilding two weapons in each hand will deal twice the damage too.
  • belial5221_ESO
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    But with dual weild,you can mix/match items, so more damage and more pen,or whatever,can't with 2h.Also,there's speed differences,and other stuff,like passives.why not make DW take longer to swing,also,like 2h as example,so gotta look at the whole picture.
    Edited by belial5221_ESO on June 13, 2023 11:31PM
  • markulrich1966
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    now really?
    Price for a temp is like 3400 gold on xbox, so golding out the second weapon costs 27.200 gold.
    I guess the game has much more severe issues to adress.
  • SacredNym
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    now really?
    Price for a temp is like 3400 gold on xbox, so golding out the second weapon costs 27.200 gold.
    I guess the game has much more severe issues to adress.

    50k on PC-NA so an additional 400,000 Gold.
  • phaneub17_ESO
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    Glad I'm sitting on over 1500 tempers, same with resin, but only have 600 wax. Hoarding ftw!
  • ixthUA
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    Should 2-handed weapon upgrade costs be doubled then? I dont mind as a shield user.
  • Gnesnig
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    ixthUA wrote: »
    Should 2-handed weapon upgrade costs be doubled then? I dont mind as a shield user.

    Why? It's one item. Creation uses more material but upgrading it shouldn't. Just like there's no extra cost for a robe versus a belt. There's also downsides. You can't get more pen and more crit chance, it's either/or for melee 2-handed versus dual-wield. No pen passives for bow. No crit chance passives for staves. Etcetera.

    The consistency is that upgrading 1 item has a fixed cost. Has nothing to do with the slot it occupies or how many slots. That should be noticeable in the creation cost.
  • ixthUA
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    2-hander is much bigger than 1-hander, thus price should be doubled.
  • Gnesnig
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    ixthUA wrote: »
    2-hander is much bigger than 1-hander, thus price should be doubled.

    Try reading what I said. Don't you think a robe is much bigger than a belt or bracers? Upgrade is a different process than creation and doesn't consume more or less materials based on the size of item.
  • ixthUA
    ixthUA
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    Gnesnig wrote: »
    Try reading what I said. Don't you think a robe is much bigger than a belt or bracers? Upgrade is a different process than creation and doesn't consume more or less materials based on the size of item.
    I tried reading, but could not get much sense out of it. Robe is bigger, but not denser.
    Upgrade process is still unknown. How do you apply wax to a cloth?
  • Gnesnig
    Gnesnig
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    ixthUA wrote: »
    Gnesnig wrote: »
    Try reading what I said. Don't you think a robe is much bigger than a belt or bracers? Upgrade is a different process than creation and doesn't consume more or less materials based on the size of item.
    I tried reading, but could not get much sense out of it. Robe is bigger, but not denser.
    Upgrade process is still unknown. How do you apply wax to a cloth?

    Yes, the upgrade process is unkown and probably magical given that it increases also the magical effects of sets. In fact, armor and weapons in game are made from ingots, while tradionally they're made from blooms or slabs of tamahagane (crude steel), still:

    - Rubedite Mace, 160CP, 110 ingots
    - Rubedite Maul, 160CP, 140 ingots
    - Rubedo Leather Jack, 160CP, 150 leather
    - Rubedo Leather Helm/Bracer/Belt, 160CP, 130 leather

    All need the same cost for upgrades and the size difference is expressed in material to create them. Whether these values are anywhere near the actual cost of an item can easily be seen by the amount difference between 150CP and 160CP (factor 10).

    But at least it's consistent: upgrades have fixed cost, creation does not. Transmuting is also twice as costly as reconstruction. Trying to make sense of it from an immersion perspective presents it's challenges, since I'm sure these decisions have been made more from a game economical perspective then from immersion.
  • opalcity
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    ixthUA wrote: »
    Gnesnig wrote: »
    Try reading what I said. Don't you think a robe is much bigger than a belt or bracers? Upgrade is a different process than creation and doesn't consume more or less materials based on the size of item.
    I tried reading, but could not get much sense out of it. Robe is bigger, but not denser.
    Upgrade process is still unknown. How do you apply wax to a cloth?

    Have you ever heard of 'wax jackets' or 'oilskin'?
  • zaria
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    wilykcat wrote: »
    I thought dual weilding two weapons in each hand will deal twice the damage too.
    In real life not, dual wield was used but off hand was mostly for parrying or exploiting openings.

    Yes you have sword an pistol but think that is more like the missile on say an Bradly, a 1-2 shot long reload time weapon you can use then the *** hit the fan.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • ixthUA
    ixthUA
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    opalcity wrote: »
    Have you ever heard of 'wax jackets' or 'oilskin'?
    They look expensive, no wonder upgrading robes should cost double materials.
  • barney2525
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    It's a Game.

    Those are the mechanics.

    Mechanics are rarely perfect.

    Deal with it.

    :#
  • Vaqual
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    Considering that DW can apply twice as many status effects, I think the little extra cost while upgrading can be neglected

    Edit: And you can double-backbar sets with an arena frontbar (or vice versa) which is a combo that 2h weapons can not use
    Edited by Vaqual on June 15, 2023 1:00PM
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