Elemental Susceptibility/Wrath of Elements + Twin Slashes/Perfected Stinging Slashes

Vaqual

1. Elemental Susceptibility/Wrath of Elements :

ZOS reintroduced a huge magicka cost to Mark Target when they "buffed" the skill last time and I would argue that the sum of these changes has made the skill even more unattractive. Around the same time they heavily buffed Elemental Susceptibility, which can be cast for free, deals roughly the same base damage as a regular dot (3 burn ticks + 2 status ticks) and applies 2 Minor Debuffs and one Major Debuff. I think I don't have to explain how good these buffs are even on their own. It also has a 50 % longer duration compared to regular dots, which can make it very oppressive even after disengaging. The sheer number of effects can also effectively protect better dots very easily from small scale purges.
To top it all off, it has an arena weapon to go with it, that can be played on the backbar without set bonus downtime (I know many can, but I don't take it for granted) and deals AoE damage with a 1s tick rate (higher base damage than Merciless Charge, which was nerfed). Yes, it technically has a counterplay due to the range limit, but by the time you make it out the set has already generated massive value (if you dont streak through the guy he will mostly be able to keep up for a bit). I know I already wrote it, but all of this doesn't cost resources. What is going on?

2. Twin Slashes/Perfected Stinging Slashes:

This set basically provides a full value dot on a 2 piece bonus. Which is strong, but sort of acceptable for an arena weapon or a monster set. It also elevates the abilities base damage above the damage of an average single target spammable. So in total what you get from Twin slashes is: I) full value single target spammable in 2 damage ticks; II) 2x full value dot; III) a HoT/Slow+Hemorrhaging Proc (which is potentially another full value dot). And the cool part? The bonus is flat damage. You do not need to invest a single €€€ in WD/SD. Didn't they deliberately change all other proc sets to scale with something just because this was OP? This set works on every single build in existence, and not running it is more often than not a DPS loss, if you are not running high WD/SD. So slotting this doesn't only give you a 2x (or 3x) full value dot, but also a convenient spammable to go with it. No brain bar space management.

There are many sets/passives that synergize with this, and it is not my point to get those involved. These two sets are overpowered on their own. It took a minute for this to become more prevalent in the meta, as many people were a bit hesitant to slot a lot of dot sets while everyone was running Mara's, but this stuff has now been broken for ages. And this isn't even a DoT-hate thread or a proc-hate thread, because I love to play proc sets and I also like dots a lot, but these sets are so OP, you always just end up feeling like an idiot for not bringing them. No other set/skill combo can offer such high sustained pressure in just 2 GCDs for only a total of 4 set slots and 2 skill slots (and half of it is for free). This is the most convenient and easy to apply damage available, at a laughably low opportunity cost.

How can any self-respecting player slot this?


Edit: I hope I found all typos.

duckdown

Finally someone address this wep. Stinging slashes r just stupid people friendly weapon no skill at all. It ticks 8x = 11k++ damage in bg with pariah both bar. Not including bleed/hemmorhaging proc. Full hp without pariah proc i got 33k armor back bar Imagine if someone dont use defensive set. Delete this or rework this set.

And Elemental Susceptibility/Wrath of Elements skill should cost resource not FREE. as for the staff. I think its ok cos it got range and damage r still acceptable not too op not to low.

SandandStars

Agree this is the braindead meta I see the most in bgs these days. Seems mostly used by StamSorcs, but I’m seeing on almost every class now.

I think Stinging Slashes is more imbalanced than Elem Wrath/Vateshran staff backbar, but the combination is so cookie cutter/pervasive that I always see them used together.

Sometimes pvp feels like 50% DKs and 50% Stinging S/Vateshran spammers.

It was more diverse and fun when I started a couple of years ago.

Also, I don’t feel like either of these OP sets will be adjusted any time soon.

xylena_lazarow

These sets weren't dominant until the U35 dot nerfs ruined most class sources of PvP pressure damage. I'd much rather see them un-nerf class dots in PvP to restore build diversity than gut pressure damage with nerfs yet again.

CameraBeardThePirate

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

These sets weren't dominant until the U35 dot nerfs ruined most class sources of PvP pressure damage. I'd much rather see them un-nerf class dots in PvP to restore build diversity than gut pressure damage with nerfs yet again.

This. The real problem is that these two sets are some of the only ways for most classes to have any sort of DoT pressure. DoT abilities simply don't deal enough damage anymore in today's PvP meta, so procs like these two or Oblivion's Foe are much stronger.

HidesInPlainSight

Ive been trying to avoid going this route with Arcanist, but good god is sustain an issue on Arcanist.

There is another proc setup that I might debut, that is just as bad if not worse. Not looking forward to it becoming a meta build.

Vaqual

I appreciate your comments xylena and Camera, but these are both missing the point a bit. Yes, dots are comparatively weaker now and wether this should be balanced again is certainly a fair debate, but there is no reason for some sets/abilities to be completely overshadowing other options. These sets are so overly cost effective that it is simply not fair compared to other sets and skills.

Yes, Oblivions Foe is a decent dot (many 5-piece dot sets are good) but you have to bring 5 pieces and a weak dot ability with horrible passives and an almost useless morph effect. This is not even remotely close to the power of Perfected Stinging Slashes. You can literally bring both of these Arena sets and a Mythic for the amount of slots you need for Oblivions foe (I know you can not split a 5 piece on 2 weapon bars, but the number adds up).
While Wrath of Elements synergizes with a very good skill without costing any resources. The amount of cost free pressure for only 2 slots is massive and only rivaled by light/heavy attacks and maybe a couple monster sets that have light attack/heavy attack based proc conditions. This is completely out of proportion when you look at similar skill/set combinations.

HiImRex

Vaqual wrote: »

I appreciate your comments xylena and Camera, but these are both missing the point a bit. Yes, dots are comparatively weaker now and wether this should be balanced again is certainly a fair debate, but there is no reason for some sets/abilities to be completely overshadowing other options. These sets are so overly cost effective that it is simply not fair compared to other sets and skills.

Yes, Oblivions Foe is a decent dot (many 5-piece dot sets are good) but you have to bring 5 pieces and a weak dot ability with horrible passives and an almost useless morph effect. This is not even remotely close to the power of Perfected Stinging Slashes. You can literally bring both of these Arena sets and a Mythic for the amount of slots you need for Oblivions foe (I know you can not split a 5 piece on 2 weapon bars, but the number adds up).
While Wrath of Elements synergizes with a very good skill without costing any resources. The amount of cost free pressure for only 2 slots is massive and only rivaled by light/heavy attacks and maybe a couple monster sets that have light attack/heavy attack based proc conditions. This is completely out of proportion when you look at similar skill/set combinations.

Ok I’m all for reducing free damage but what happens to the already tanky meta once we gut all remaining offensive sets that are actually strong?

Nerfing these in a vacuum because every other offensive set pretty much sucks will have pretty predictable results on the meta.

Chilly-McFreeze

HiImRex wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

I appreciate your comments xylena and Camera, but these are both missing the point a bit. Yes, dots are comparatively weaker now and wether this should be balanced again is certainly a fair debate, but there is no reason for some sets/abilities to be completely overshadowing other options. These sets are so overly cost effective that it is simply not fair compared to other sets and skills.

Yes, Oblivions Foe is a decent dot (many 5-piece dot sets are good) but you have to bring 5 pieces and a weak dot ability with horrible passives and an almost useless morph effect. This is not even remotely close to the power of Perfected Stinging Slashes. You can literally bring both of these Arena sets and a Mythic for the amount of slots you need for Oblivions foe (I know you can not split a 5 piece on 2 weapon bars, but the number adds up).
While Wrath of Elements synergizes with a very good skill without costing any resources. The amount of cost free pressure for only 2 slots is massive and only rivaled by light/heavy attacks and maybe a couple monster sets that have light attack/heavy attack based proc conditions. This is completely out of proportion when you look at similar skill/set combinations.

Ok I’m all for reducing free damage but what happens to the already tanky meta once we gut all remaining offensive sets that are actually strong?

Nerfing these in a vacuum because every other offensive set pretty much sucks will have pretty predictable results on the meta.

Correct. But I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf DOT sets first, and buff skills never.

Vaqual

But if the balance is held together only by overpowered sets that is not a good state for the game to be in. That is why it is important to bring pain points up and if you think that things like this are an issue it would be good to show unanimous support. I understand were scepticism and cynicism towards ZOS' balancing efforts come from, but the best we can do is provide clearly communicated feedback.

katorga

Vaqual wrote: »

but there is no reason for some sets/abilities to be completely overshadowing other options.

No matter what gets nerfed something else always replaces it as the mathematically superior option.

All you get is a race to the bottom.

Anyway they can't nerf them now, or Arcanist got nuthin.

Vaqual

katorga wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

but there is no reason for some sets/abilities to be completely overshadowing other options.

No matter what gets nerfed something else always replaces it as the mathematically superior option.

All you get is a race to the bottom.

Anyway they can't nerf them now, or Arcanist got nuthin.

True, but also the extent of the imbalance matters.
The race to the bottom is not implied when asking for fair balance. What good are hundreds of sets and meticulous balancing if obvious outliers are just going to be tolerated.

Chilly-McFreeze

Maybe it's how you go about this. I guess people would be more inclined to support your quest for a nerf if you'd started with "bring class X and Y up to par, then bring down these outlier sets".
As of now, one or the other classes nearly needs those builds to remain viable compared to the current top classes that can pretty much use any set they want and still perform good (although we all know that even those classes just hop from one meta to the next). Ask yourself which classes you primarily see using those busted combos, then ponder why those cling to these sets etc.

Vaqual

You make it sound like it is only allowed to patch one thing at a time. If there are balancing deficits with certain classes the best thing would be to bring them up in an objective manner and to discuss it with other players in a subject oriented fashion. Not saying that this guarantees success, but what else can you do?

Justifying one issue with another is about the least professional way to do things. If the underperformance of certain classes is the best argument to keep overpowered items in the game, then I think I will need to quit this discussion. This can not be a serious concern. Isn't the goal to get the gear and the classes balanced? I admit, class balancing is probably much more intricate, than balancing of isolated items/non-class skills, as many more factors/consequences have to be considered. But this is all the more reason to clean up the gear landscape and review issues with class performance at a level were gear imbalances are no longer falsifying performance benchmarks.

bachpain

Now you've done it. These sets will only work in PVE next patch .

HidesInPlainSight

So, my build is

Vaqual wrote: »

I appreciate your comments xylena and Camera, but these are both missing the point a bit. Yes, dots are comparatively weaker now and wether this should be balanced again is certainly a fair debate, but there is no reason for some sets/abilities to be completely overshadowing other options. These sets are so overly cost effective that it is simply not fair compared to other sets and skills.

Yes, Oblivions Foe is a decent dot (many 5-piece dot sets are good) but you have to bring 5 pieces and a weak dot ability with horrible passives and an almost useless morph effect. This is not even remotely close to the power of Perfected Stinging Slashes. You can literally bring both of these Arena sets and a Mythic for the amount of slots you need for Oblivions foe (I know you can not split a 5 piece on 2 weapon bars, but the number adds up).
While Wrath of Elements synergizes with a very good skill without costing any resources. The amount of cost free pressure for only 2 slots is massive and only rivaled by light/heavy attacks and maybe a couple monster sets that have light attack/heavy attack based proc conditions. This is completely out of proportion when you look at similar skill/set combinations.

Oblivions Foe and Soul skill are wasted slots. There are new and old sets, that make these weapon combos really shine. It also works stripped down, in No Proc, but is more work.

HidesInPlainSight

Vaqual wrote: »

But if the balance is held together only by overpowered sets that is not a good state for the game to be in. That is why it is important to bring pain points up and if you think that things like this are an issue it would be good to show unanimous support. I understand were scepticism and cynicism towards ZOS' balancing efforts come from, but the best we can do is provide clearly communicated feedback.

Its not the sets its the skill. Entire build works in No Proc, just more work.

Elemental Succeptability is giving me 3k+ ticks on every single player I put it on. Before even engaging either Arena Weapon. Enemy is already close to 70% hp by the time Im in range for Vateshran to proc. Its literally free damage, that you can apply over and over and over.

You are going to see more Arcanist running these style of builds simply because their sustain and access to Major Breach sucks ass.

Vaqual

Yes but that is already written in the first paragraph. It is the sum of effects bundled up in one skill. I know I refer to the sets a lot but I think I did a reasonably good job explaining my thoughts in the beginning.

And I don't know what you mean by

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

So, my build is

I was just engaging with another persons argument, and numerically the Oblivions Foe dot is not much better or worse than other 5-piece-bonus sticky dots with a trivial cd-free proc condition. I am not stating that this set is in any way in the same league as the things that this thread is focusing on.

And i feel like I have said everything I can say, this is already going in circles were half of the stuff isn't being read properly.

Last addition: I don't want these things to be nerfed to uselessness, just to be comparable with similar effects. The discussions here are always so unnecessarily dramatic.

xylena_lazarow

Vaqual wrote: »

Last addition: I don't want these things to be nerfed to uselessness, just to be comparable with similar effects. The discussions here are always so unnecessarily dramatic.

Is your goal build diversity, or to make the meta more tanky? Nerfs are only gonna do the latter.

Vaqual

Ok, I will answer since, it was a direct question:

You might as well buff other sets/skills up to the same level of effectiveness. That would find an equal amount of criticism. I am making no demands how good or bad proc/dot based playstyles should be and how they should fare against tanks, etc. I am just advocating for an even playing field in terms of build design options, because I am convinced that the game is much more interesting if you encounter players with many different builds and if thematic builds can perform somewhat closer to the the fotm.

Of course if 10 sets out of 500 are overperforming the reasonable things would be to adjust 10 and not 500. None of this means that this can not go hand in hand with other changes (weaker dots hitting on 0, more dynamic tick frequencies, dot lengths, dot strengths, as before U35). I am not making suggestions like that because the options are almost endless and I just don't think everything needs to be fully spelled out all the time.

Mayrael

I am all for balance, and I don't like it when something significantly stands out above everything else because it leads to a boring state where all, or at least the majority of players, play in the same way. However, looking at how easy it is now to be a tank and have immense sustain, I dare to say that those sets and skills should not be nerfed, but rather other sets and skills should be brought up to their level, thus achieving not only a better balance between offensive skills and sets but also a general better balance between damage and tankiness. Nerfing those skills will solve one problem while potentially exacerbating another.

usmcjdking

I don't think either of these sets are the culprit - neither are particularly strong when in isolation.

- The CP penetration star needs to be reworked.
- Twin Slashes initial hit damage needs to be halved, with that damage being given to the DOT portion.
- ZOS really, REALLY need to create a better debuff accountability system. Considering it can take anywhere between 2 (Extended RItual) to 5 (Purge) purge casts to rid yourselves of a FREE TO CAST SKILL AND IT'S EFFECT is hilariously wack.

HidesInPlainSight

usmcjdking wrote: »

I don't think either of these sets are the culprit - neither are particularly strong when in isolation.

- The CP penetration star needs to be reworked.
- Twin Slashes initial hit damage needs to be halved, with that damage being given to the DOT portion.
- ZOS really, REALLY need to create a better debuff accountability system. Considering it can take anywhere between 2 (Extended RItual) to 5 (Purge) purge casts to rid yourselves of a FREE TO CAST SKILL AND IT'S EFFECT is hilariously wack.

That would legit kill the skill, which is not over performing at all. The problem is the Elemental Sub. Even then, adding a cost or reworking that skill will not fix the problem. Problem is that players don't have to spec into any damage to get the benefits. They can go full defense and get the same benefits as everyone else. Devs need to come to a solution to deal with the ever increasing HP pool, making DMG and Health directly inversely proportional, or we are just going to keep ending up with a meta where player stack health and cheese dmg.

ZoS does not even have a clue on how broken some builds can be, especially with current bugs in the game. No Cp is such a cluster *** in the current patch, that even with the limited testing Ive done, I am finding sets that should not work, that currently work. Then there are sets that do not visually work in No Cp, but checking the damage logs, they are doing the damage.

Not to mention that passives falling off bug is back, and now Ive found another bug where I am randomly receiving other stats from one encounter to the next.

YandereGirlfriend

usmcjdking wrote: »

I don't think either of these sets are the culprit - neither are particularly strong when in isolation.

- The CP penetration star needs to be reworked.
- Twin Slashes initial hit damage needs to be halved, with that damage being given to the DOT portion.
- ZOS really, REALLY need to create a better debuff accountability system. Considering it can take anywhere between 2 (Extended RItual) to 5 (Purge) purge casts to rid yourselves of a FREE TO CAST SKILL AND IT'S EFFECT is hilariously wack.

Penetration star is 100% fine as it is. It was already giga-nerfed from what it was set to originally.

LittlePinkDot

Vaqual wrote: »

1. Elemental Susceptibility/Wrath of Elements :

ZOS reintroduced a huge magicka cost to Mark Target when they "buffed" the skill last time and I would argue that the sum of these changes has made the skill even more unattractive. Around the same time they heavily buffed Elemental Susceptibility, which can be cast for free, deals roughly the same base damage as a regular dot (3 burn ticks + 2 status ticks) and applies 2 Minor Debuffs and one Major Debuff. I think I don't have to explain how good these buffs are even on their own. It also has a 50 % longer duration compared to regular dots, which can make it very oppressive even after disengaging. The sheer number of effects can also effectively protect better dots very easily from small scale purges.
To top it all off, it has an arena weapon to go with it, that can be played on the backbar without set bonus downtime (I know many can, but I don't take it for granted) and deals AoE damage with a 1s tick rate (higher base damage than Merciless Charge, which was nerfed). Yes, it technically has a counterplay due to the range limit, but by the time you make it out the set has already generated massive value (if you dont streak through the guy he will mostly be able to keep up for a bit). I know I already wrote it, but all of this doesn't cost resources. What is going on?

2. Twin Slashes/Perfected Stinging Slashes:

This set basically provides a full value dot on a 2 piece bonus. Which is strong, but sort of acceptable for an arena weapon or a monster set. It also elevates the abilities base damage above the damage of an average single target spammable. So in total what you get from Twin slashes is: I) full value single target spammable in 2 damage ticks; II) 2x full value dot; III) a HoT/Slow+Hemorrhaging Proc (which is potentially another full value dot). And the cool part? The bonus is flat damage. You do not need to invest a single €€€ in WD/SD. Didn't they deliberately change all other proc sets to scale with something just because this was OP? This set works on every single build in existence, and not running it is more often than not a DPS loss, if you are not running high WD/SD. So slotting this doesn't only give you a 2x (or 3x) full value dot, but also a convenient spammable to go with it. No brain bar space management.

There are many sets/passives that synergize with this, and it is not my point to get those involved. These two sets are overpowered on their own. It took a minute for this to become more prevalent in the meta, as many people were a bit hesitant to slot a lot of dot sets while everyone was running Mara's, but this stuff has now been broken for ages. And this isn't even a DoT-hate thread or a proc-hate thread, because I love to play proc sets and I also like dots a lot, but these sets are so OP, you always just end up feeling like an idiot for not bringing them. No other set/skill combo can offer such high sustained pressure in just 2 GCDs for only a total of 4 set slots and 2 skill slots (and half of it is for free). This is the most convenient and easy to apply damage available, at a laughably low opportunity cost.

How can any self-respecting player slot this?


Edit: I hope I found all typos.

"how can any self respecting player slot this"

Well if your class doesn't have a class spammable that's any good, I guess they have to slot THAT.
As a solo player I can't do trials because there's no group finder for trials. So my Warden is using Wrecking blow instead of rending slashes like the build I was following recommended. It's hard to hit anybody with Wrecking blow.

Jabs is nerfed, so my Templar is also using Wrecking blow.

I can't say I've seen or heard of Night blades using rending slashes much.. Probably because they have great class spammables.

SandandStars

The utlity of an effective class spammable is often underestimated.

DK & NB have them.

Other classes do not.

Jabs were nerfed to useless
Birds are too slow to hit anyone
Frags are too slow to hit anyone
Blastbones…. are blastbones

Cast_El

Vaqual wrote: »

1. Elemental Susceptibility/Wrath of Elements :

ZOS reintroduced a huge magicka cost to Mark Target when they "buffed" the skill last time and I would argue that the sum of these changes has made the skill even more unattractive. Around the same time they heavily buffed Elemental Susceptibility, which can be cast for free, deals roughly the same base damage as a regular dot (3 burn ticks + 2 status ticks) and applies 2 Minor Debuffs and one Major Debuff. I think I don't have to explain how good these buffs are even on their own. It also has a 50 % longer duration compared to regular dots, which can make it very oppressive even after disengaging. The sheer number of effects can also effectively protect better dots very easily from small scale purges.
To top it all off, it has an arena weapon to go with it, that can be played on the backbar without set bonus downtime (I know many can, but I don't take it for granted) and deals AoE damage with a 1s tick rate (higher base damage than Merciless Charge, which was nerfed). Yes, it technically has a counterplay due to the range limit, but by the time you make it out the set has already generated massive value (if you dont streak through the guy he will mostly be able to keep up for a bit). I know I already wrote it, but all of this doesn't cost resources. What is going on?

2. Twin Slashes/Perfected Stinging Slashes:

This set basically provides a full value dot on a 2 piece bonus. Which is strong, but sort of acceptable for an arena weapon or a monster set. It also elevates the abilities base damage above the damage of an average single target spammable. So in total what you get from Twin slashes is: I) full value single target spammable in 2 damage ticks; II) 2x full value dot; III) a HoT/Slow+Hemorrhaging Proc (which is potentially another full value dot). And the cool part? The bonus is flat damage. You do not need to invest a single €€€ in WD/SD. Didn't they deliberately change all other proc sets to scale with something just because this was OP? This set works on every single build in existence, and not running it is more often than not a DPS loss, if you are not running high WD/SD. So slotting this doesn't only give you a 2x (or 3x) full value dot, but also a convenient spammable to go with it. No brain bar space management.

There are many sets/passives that synergize with this, and it is not my point to get those involved. These two sets are overpowered on their own. It took a minute for this to become more prevalent in the meta, as many people were a bit hesitant to slot a lot of dot sets while everyone was running Mara's, but this stuff has now been broken for ages. And this isn't even a DoT-hate thread or a proc-hate thread, because I love to play proc sets and I also like dots a lot, but these sets are so OP, you always just end up feeling like an idiot for not bringing them. No other set/skill combo can offer such high sustained pressure in just 2 GCDs for only a total of 4 set slots and 2 skill slots (and half of it is for free). This is the most convenient and easy to apply damage available, at a laughably low opportunity cost.

How can any self-respecting player slot this?


Edit: I hope I found all typos.

You are right. I am so sick of this meta. Worst part is op class like DK playing this or stam sorc in group and t bagging you when they take more than several minutes to take you down while you solo play without procs

lnigo

I really wish the other arena weapons were as competitive as the master dual wield and vateshran destro. The other arena weapons are either too niche (maelstrom DW/resto, master destro/SnB, master 2h, asylum destro/2h/SnB, blackrose SnB) or not worth losing a 2pc monster set, 5pc set, or mythic (blackrose bow/2h, vateshran resto, asylum bow).

Let's not even talk about how the maelstrom 2h DoT is absurdly weak.

Rhaegar75

Vaqual wrote: »

1. Elemental Susceptibility/Wrath of Elements :

ZOS reintroduced a huge magicka cost to Mark Target when they "buffed" the skill last time and I would argue that the sum of these changes has made the skill even more unattractive. Around the same time they heavily buffed Elemental Susceptibility, which can be cast for free, deals roughly the same base damage as a regular dot (3 burn ticks + 2 status ticks) and applies 2 Minor Debuffs and one Major Debuff. I think I don't have to explain how good these buffs are even on their own. It also has a 50 % longer duration compared to regular dots, which can make it very oppressive even after disengaging. The sheer number of effects can also effectively protect better dots very easily from small scale purges.
To top it all off, it has an arena weapon to go with it, that can be played on the backbar without set bonus downtime (I know many can, but I don't take it for granted) and deals AoE damage with a 1s tick rate (higher base damage than Merciless Charge, which was nerfed). Yes, it technically has a counterplay due to the range limit, but by the time you make it out the set has already generated massive value (if you dont streak through the guy he will mostly be able to keep up for a bit). I know I already wrote it, but all of this doesn't cost resources. What is going on?

2. Twin Slashes/Perfected Stinging Slashes:

This set basically provides a full value dot on a 2 piece bonus. Which is strong, but sort of acceptable for an arena weapon or a monster set. It also elevates the abilities base damage above the damage of an average single target spammable. So in total what you get from Twin slashes is: I) full value single target spammable in 2 damage ticks; II) 2x full value dot; III) a HoT/Slow+Hemorrhaging Proc (which is potentially another full value dot). And the cool part? The bonus is flat damage. You do not need to invest a single €€€ in WD/SD. Didn't they deliberately change all other proc sets to scale with something just because this was OP? This set works on every single build in existence, and not running it is more often than not a DPS loss, if you are not running high WD/SD. So slotting this doesn't only give you a 2x (or 3x) full value dot, but also a convenient spammable to go with it. No brain bar space management.

There are many sets/passives that synergize with this, and it is not my point to get those involved. These two sets are overpowered on their own. It took a minute for this to become more prevalent in the meta, as many people were a bit hesitant to slot a lot of dot sets while everyone was running Mara's, but this stuff has now been broken for ages. And this isn't even a DoT-hate thread or a proc-hate thread, because I love to play proc sets and I also like dots a lot, but these sets are so OP, you always just end up feeling like an idiot for not bringing them. No other set/skill combo can offer such high sustained pressure in just 2 GCDs for only a total of 4 set slots and 2 skill slots (and half of it is for free). This is the most convenient and easy to apply damage available, at a laughably low opportunity cost.

How can any self-respecting player slot this?


Edit: I hope I found all typos.

I could not agree more: there’s always been a tendency towards a meta but it’s rarely been as fixed and stale as it is now.

Both abilities are fundamentally an example of skill-less PvP: they do damage for you, the proc condition is too easy, reapplying them is too easy.

They definitely need tuning down so that the meta can finally move on: Mara was eventually nerfed and I really hope it won’t be long before ZOS does something about stinging slashes and wrath

StaticWave

This is just a fraction of the actual problem, which not many people seem to be addressing, and that’s Charged + Status Effects.

These Arena weapons are strong no doubt and definitely need to be slightly tuned down, but by themselves, the pressure isn’t as bad.

What really makes everything bad right now is using Charged trait and stacking as many status effects as possible. For example, my Dw/Ice staff stamsorc build has zero Arena weapons. However, I have a charged off-hand and disease + poisoned enchants on my Dw. I also use Ele Sus on back bar, and Crystal Weapon + B4B front bar.

So with just 1 charged off hand and Ele Sus, I am able to proc Chilled, Concussed, Burning, Poisoned, Diseased, Overcharged, and Sundered status effects. All of these give a small amount of damage when procced (between 150-250 dmg). This is not to mention the secondary effects that come with these status effects like Minor Vul, Minor Breach, Minot Defile, Minor Main, etc.

Combined with Hurricane, Quick Cloak, double dmg poisons back bar, and I have enough AFK pressure without needing Vate Ice or Master DW. This is one of, if not the biggest problem right now and should be addressed first imo.

HidesInPlainSight

StaticWave wrote: »

This is just a fraction of the actual problem, which not many people seem to be addressing, and that’s Charged + Status Effects.

These Arena weapons are strong no doubt and definitely need to be slightly tuned down, but by themselves, the pressure isn’t as bad.

What really makes everything bad right now is using Charged trait and stacking as many status effects as possible. For example, my Dw/Ice staff stamsorc build has zero Arena weapons. However, I have a charged off-hand and disease + poisoned enchants on my Dw. I also use Ele Sus on back bar, and Crystal Weapon + B4B front bar.

So with just 1 charged off hand and Ele Sus, I am able to proc Chilled, Concussed, Burning, Poisoned, Diseased, Overcharged, and Sundered status effects. All of these give a small amount of damage when procced (between 150-250 dmg). This is not to mention the secondary effects that come with these status effects like Minor Vul, Minor Breach, Minot Defile, Minor Main, etc.

Combined with Hurricane, Quick Cloak, double dmg poisons back bar, and I have enough AFK pressure without needing Vate Ice or Master DW. This is one of, if not the biggest problem right now and should be addressed first imo.

None of the Arena weapons need to be tuned down, they need to buff the weaker ones. They take considerable amount of time to farm, and should be powerful and build defining. Charged status and Status Effects are not overpowered, in No CP, and not really overpowered in CP, they are just "free" damage.

The problem lies with players stacking health and using Proc sets that don't scale with weapon damage but are flat damage. Health needs to be inversely proportional to damage. There is no reason a 40k hp player should be dealing anywhere near the damage they currently are. If you want to pump your health pool, you should be hitting like a noodle. Vampire stage 3 and Pariah, only compound this.

Severs performance is so ***, that actual skilled play no longer matters, just stack hp, proc sets, and sustain. You will eventually win by attrition simply because burst will not line up in this lag, and players will run out of sustain.

You have 20 min fights running around rocks waiting for a player to run out of stam so you can stun lock them. CP compounds this with ridiculous healing you can achieve. They need to bring back Befoul CP so it would actually make sustained damage viable again, giving Arcanist class actual viability in PvP.

The removal of No CP w/ Procs enabled is probably the biggest loss to PvP, ESO has had. It was the perfect balance in power level and fun. BGs are No CP w/ Procs enabled because it the best combination of fairness and fun. Any player can pick up a set and join in.