PVP DK Corrosive

WoppaBoem

New Patch released great work developers. Now please for next patch address Corrosive. DK's have way to many good things but it is what it is but Corrosive has to be changed we cannot have another patch after Necrom where Corrosive is not being addressed. The skill some ups DK perfectly, unkillable and able to kill everything. The gameplay it enables is DK's go full Turtle and then go offensive it is horrible to play against. What the change needs to be I have no strong opinion about but I do know for the health of PVP please get it sorted.... Make DK leap again

ZOS_Phoenix

Greetings,

After review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic (PvP Combat & Skills, as this thread is regarding a skill's use in PVP).

Thank you for your understanding.

Weckless

I second this.
Either:
- Remove the defensive aspect from Corrosive and have it be the offensive option while Magma is the defensive one.
- Disable ulti gen while its active. This should honestly already be the case because no other ultimate generates ult while active so I dont see how something as strong as Corrosive does.

Ideally both would apply [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Urzigurumash

Weckless wrote: »

Ideally both would apply [snip]

Find me one single player with a DK above rank 20 who excuses the state of the class in PvP. I've only written that Corrosive should keep its "tanklet" theme and not be a purely offensive Ult because it never was, and I think plenty of other 5 star DKs agree and we certainly don't need "training wheels", I don't even play the class because it's too easy these days.

Nearly every imaginable point has already been discussed in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf#latest

Long story short I would agree with making it a proper "Transformation Ult" - raising its cost and disabling Ult Gen during it. Some could make the argument disabling Ult Gen is an unfair hit to DK's sustain which is a valid suggestion, but then again it's not really going to hurt the class is it. The only real logical problem there would be that Magma Shell in PvE doesn't need to have its Ult Gen disabled - so why would one morph be a Transformation and not the other.

I and other have suggested it just be balanced as more of a "Poison version of Northern Storm", but the simplest way I guess would just be to considerably raise its cost. Goliath and Vamp Ult both make you tankier than Corrosive, in my experience.

PS. Other Ults do generate Ult while active? It's just the Transformation ones and Overload that don't I thought?

[edited to remove quote]

Weckless

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

Ideally both would apply [snip]

Find me one single player with a DK above rank 20 who excuses the state of the class in PvP. I've only written that Corrosive should keep its "tanklet" theme and not be a purely offensive Ult because it never was, and I think plenty of other 5 star DKs agree and we certainly don't need "training wheels", I don't even play the class because it's too easy these days.

Nearly every imaginable point has already been discussed in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf#latest

Long story short I would agree with making it a proper "Transformation Ult" - raising its cost and disabling Ult Gen during it. Some could make the argument disabling Ult Gen is an unfair hit to DK's sustain which is a valid suggestion, but then again it's not really going to hurt the class is it. The only real logical problem there would be that Magma Shell in PvE doesn't need to have its Ult Gen disabled - so why would one morph be a Transformation and not the other.

I and other have suggested it just be balanced as more of a "Poison version of Northern Storm", but the simplest way I guess would just be to considerably raise its cost. Goliath and Vamp Ult both make you tankier than Corrosive, in my experience.

PS. Other Ults do generate Ult while active? It's just the Transformation ones and Overload that don't I thought?

I never said anything any 5 star DKs or anything of the sort you are implying so I have no idea what that's about.
And if they do then I wasnt aware but I was treating it more like a transformation because it functions like one. And I disagree about vamp ult making you tankier than corrosive. It just gives you a lot of health and base stats pretty much but they can still be bursted. Corrosive makes being bursted inpossible and the only way to die is to have either so many people on you to the point your game isn't even running smoothly or a few people focusing you with pressure builds with so many negative effects on you they can't fit on the screen and they chip away at your health 3% at time

[edited to remove quote]

Rhaegar75

My take as a DK main.

DK in itself is fine: leave us alone!

However, corrosive is not...it needs tuning down. It cannot be an offensive and defensive powerhouse at the same time!

Weckless

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

My take as a DK main.

DK in itself is fine: leave us alone!

However, corrosive is not...it needs tuning down. It cannot be an offensive and defensive powerhouse at the same time!

Fr with Bloodspawn and corrosive all a dk has to do is sit on its back bar and turtle until corrosive is up. They had a dude dueling people in elden root doing that the other day it was so shameless. He got mad when he finally lost because i was on a nb and just shaded around and didnt attack him so he couldnt get his ult up while his corrosive was up and got a kill window on him lol

xylena_lazarow

Maybe make Corrosive prevent ult gen until it expires, and give it a much more noticeable sound and visual.

Generally we need to stop nerfing classes, that leads to a boring generic meta. Buff the underperforming ones.

Holycannoli

Some of us have been saying this about Corrosive for years. It shouldn't be both offense and defense in one. That should be in the morphs: one offensive morph, one defensive.

Weckless

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Maybe make Corrosive prevent ult gen until it expires, and give it a much more noticeable sound and visual.

Generally we need to stop nerfing classes, that leads to a boring generic meta. Buff the underperforming ones.

I am of the same mind as you on that subject but corrosive is an outlier. Its well know it has been too strong for years. Theres a reason its banned in every duel tournament because a DK using Corrosive wont lose

Urzigurumash

Weckless wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Maybe make Corrosive prevent ult gen until it expires, and give it a much more noticeable sound and visual.

Generally we need to stop nerfing classes, that leads to a boring generic meta. Buff the underperforming ones.

I am of the same mind as you on that subject but corrosive is an outlier. Its well know it has been too strong for years. Theres a reason its banned in every duel tournament because a DK using Corrosive wont lose

Right it's always been like that though, it's always been banned from dueling tournaments for as long as they've been around, which was only a few patches after the Poison Corrosive was added.

Which gets to my point about the role of this Ult in the 6 years or so it existed prior to DK becoming OP. [snip] me and other actual DK mains - whether active or retired from the class in PvP - have asked:

Exactly why should it should be an "All Offense" morph? How much time did you guys spend thinking up this brilliantly complex and compelling solution? Pretty sure if we did a tally at least 1/3 of Ultimates have a Defensive and Offensive component.

[edited to remove quote]

Urzigurumash

To go on - Corrosive was banned from dueling tournaments for years, so were Bloodspawn and Trollking. During those years, how often did you see tournaments won by a StamDK when Corrosive was banned? Go ahead and look through some old results, I'd bet right now the only time prior to 2021 was maybe briefly during maybe Morrowind and Clockwork City, if you were an old StamDK main you'd know why.

I could be wrong about that, but the point is the defensive component of Corrosive was integral to the role StamDK occupied in PvP for years. Corrosive was specifically set out to uniquely distinguish StamDK in PvP. Without it the class was "only good for Leaping", which was something StamDK may or may not have done better in any one patch than MagDK - especially in 1v1. Go ahead and hit "/played" on your StamDK and reflect about how well-informed your opinion of what Corrosive "should be" is. [snip]

A crutch, yes absolutely, like cloak for NB, like Streak for Sorc, etc.

Yes DK is now OP and it's time for Corrosive to be dialed down - obviously a StamDK can win a dueling tournament without it easily. Yes it is proper for non-mains to bring this up and identify this glaring problem with the class - absolutely. But an Ult which does nothing more than give 100% Pen simply does not fit the theme of the class or the theme of the Ult, and it would still be overpowered and inefficient at the same time - meaning it's OP but you have to build specifically into it in a cheesy, uninteresting, uncompelling way.

Why'd I bother mentioning Trollking? Because it also gave you a neon green hue - past tense. You don't see it anymore, it's gone. I'm retired from the class but the Ult remains dear to me. It should not go the way of Trollking.

[edited to remove quote]

DrNukenstein

It's not the corrosive armor. You can kite and cc the corrosive armor once you notice it's up. It's only up for 12 seconds and then it's going to be down for a minute unless they went overboard with ultimate generation or are dropping big bucks for that fight.

-roll catches with fossilize. Imagine punishing the roll, forcing a break free then forcing another roll. Insane

-flame's of oblivion doing more than chip damage to a single target on cast, but to 3 targets and automatically firing every 5 seconds. It's like if current caluurions legacy auto fired on 3 people every time it's up and scaled with Pstat+damage

- the dk's class skills give an option for incidental healing. Such as powerlash, which is definitely not a bad alternative to molten whip just not as fun or bursty. It'll definitely keep a dk spamming if the target is off balance

-Passives that are extremely pvp friendly such as warmth, bonus resists, and blocking bonuses

-An extremely potent sustain mechanic that just involves playing around your ultimate. A classic play pattern for making kills happen.

And leap is definitely not a more bearable ultimate. If you are not blocking before they push the button you will get hit and eat all of it. You will be held in place during cast and travel time, and then you will be desynced by knockback. In fact, I would say less leaps is the upside to corrosive being so good. There is nothing more frustrating in this game than being triple leaped by 3 Donkey Kongs

*Edit, Balorgh is the best set in the game but I can't use it on a corrosive DK because penetration is a dump stat for that sweet 12 seconds where the magic happens. A 2 light set loadout gives penetration that I don't want. The 100% penetration doesn't apply to dots, so I should I avoid using those. Even if corrosive DK is the defacto strongest version of the strongest class, trade offs were made, limitations were acknowledged, and draw backs are there.

Weckless

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Maybe make Corrosive prevent ult gen until it expires, and give it a much more noticeable sound and visual.

Generally we need to stop nerfing classes, that leads to a boring generic meta. Buff the underperforming ones.

I am of the same mind as you on that subject but corrosive is an outlier. Its well know it has been too strong for years. Theres a reason its banned in every duel tournament because a DK using Corrosive wont lose

Right it's always been like that though, it's always been banned from dueling tournaments for as long as they've been around, which was only a few patches after the Poison Corrosive was added.

Which gets to my point about the role of this Ult in the 6 years or so it existed prior to DK becoming OP. [snip] me and other actual DK mains - whether active or retired from the class in PvP - have asked:

Exactly why should it should be an "All Offense" morph? How much time did you guys spend thinking up this brilliantly complex and compelling solution? Pretty sure if we did a tally at least 1/3 of Ultimates have a Defensive and Offensive component.

[snip] Negate ult gen and im fine with that. Hell im fine if they leave it as it is now because it still doesnt stop me from doing what I do. If a dk wants to camp in corrosive he can do it alone and i know, they know, and everyone else knows that the dk was being a bot and thats why hes standing there alone. Im just saying the truth about the matter and if it gets fixed cool and if not then no problem.

[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

Weckless

DrNukenstein wrote: »

It's not the corrosive armor. You can kite and cc the corrosive armor once you notice it's up. It's only up for 12 seconds and then it's going to be down for a minute unless they went overboard with ultimate generation or are dropping big bucks for that fight.

-roll catches with fossilize. Imagine punishing the roll, forcing a break free then forcing another roll. Insane

-flame's of oblivion doing more than chip damage to a single target on cast, but to 3 targets and automatically firing every 5 seconds. It's like if current caluurions legacy auto fired on 3 people every time it's up and scaled with Pstat+damage

- the dk's class skills give an option for incidental healing. Such as powerlash, which is definitely not a bad alternative to molten whip just not as fun or bursty. It'll definitely keep a dk spamming if the target is off balance

-Passives that are extremely pvp friendly such as warmth, bonus resists, and blocking bonuses

-An extremely potent sustain mechanic that just involves playing around your ultimate. A classic play pattern for making kills happen.

And leap is definitely not a more bearable ultimate. If you are not blocking before they push the button you will get hit and eat all of it. You will be held in place during cast and travel time, and then you will be desynced by knockback. In fact, I would say less leaps is the upside to corrosive being so good. There is nothing more frustrating in this game than being triple leaped by 3 Donkey Kongs

*Edit, Balorgh is the best set in the game but I can't use it on a corrosive DK because penetration is a dump stat for that sweet 12 seconds where the magic happens. A 2 light set loadout gives penetration that I don't want. The 100% penetration doesn't apply to dots, so I should I avoid using those. Even if corrosive DK is the defacto strongest version of the strongest class, trade offs were made, limitations were acknowledged, and draw backs are there.

A dk doesn't have to go overboard or even do anything different. Back bar trickery and bloodspawn, 2 staple sets for the class will have corrosive up very quickly. And yea you can kite them, in fact you better, but then youre just in a back in forth of parsing on a turtle and running from a killer. Who wants to do that?

Iriidius

Weckless wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Maybe make Corrosive prevent ult gen until it expires, and give it a much more noticeable sound and visual.

Generally we need to stop nerfing classes, that leads to a boring generic meta. Buff the underperforming ones.

I am of the same mind as you on that subject but corrosive is an outlier. Its well know it has been too strong for years. Theres a reason its banned in every duel tournament because a DK using Corrosive wont lose

Corosive armor is banned in duell tournaments because it is a defensive ultimate and all defensive ultimates( and sets) are disabled in duell tournaments to make duellants more squishy and reduce duell length. Werewolf is also still banned from almost all duell tournaments althought it makes the user weaker not stronger.

Weckless wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

Ideally both would apply [snip]

Find me one single player with a DK above rank 20 who excuses the state of the class in PvP. I've only written that Corrosive should keep its "tanklet" theme and not be a purely offensive Ult because it never was, and I think plenty of other 5 star DKs agree and we certainly don't need "training wheels", I don't even play the class because it's too easy these days.

Nearly every imaginable point has already been discussed in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf#latest

Long story short I would agree with making it a proper "Transformation Ult" - raising its cost and disabling Ult Gen during it. Some could make the argument disabling Ult Gen is an unfair hit to DK's sustain which is a valid suggestion, but then again it's not really going to hurt the class is it. The only real logical problem there would be that Magma Shell in PvE doesn't need to have its Ult Gen disabled - so why would one morph be a Transformation and not the other.

I and other have suggested it just be balanced as more of a "Poison version of Northern Storm", but the simplest way I guess would just be to considerably raise its cost. Goliath and Vamp Ult both make you tankier than Corrosive, in my experience.

PS. Other Ults do generate Ult while active? It's just the Transformation ones and Overload that don't I thought?

I never said anything any 5 star DKs or anything of the sort you are implying so I have no idea what that's about.
And if they do then I wasnt aware but I was treating it more like a transformation because it functions like one. And I disagree about vamp ult making you tankier than corrosive. It just gives you a lot of health and base stats pretty much but they can still be bursted. Corrosive makes being bursted inpossible and the only way to die is to have either so many people on you to the point your game isn't even running smoothly or a few people focusing you with pressure builds with so many negative effects on you they can't fit on the screen and they chip away at your health 3% at time

[edited to remove quote]

Dont know why everyone tries to burst down dks while they are in corrosive armor. I also dont try to burst someone down while they are blocking/using shieldulti/goliath/vampre, because it is doesnt work. 10k more hp from vampre ulti makes it much harder to burst and most otherwise sucessful burst combos fail. As a solo player you cant burst 40k hp. It also gives you 10k max stamina and magicka(If you use orzogas and 64 health youre pool is very low), deals half of destro ult dmg for three times the duration and heals you for 20% of the dmg done including ulti dmg. Goliath ulti with 30k extra hp makes it completely impossible for a solo player and most smallscales to burst and the ulti also deals high aoe dmg.
Normaly you try to burst down players when their defense is weakest not strongest. With bloodspawn and daedrick trickery, heroism otions and nord you get maybe 40% uptime, much lower without them, so 60% of the time the dk is vulnerable to your burst combos and deals low dmg because he doesnt have penetration.

If Corrosive gets nerfed than no ult regen in corrosive or a slightly shorter duration would be best to keep corrosive identity while preventing permacorrosive builds.

Weckless

Iriidius wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Maybe make Corrosive prevent ult gen until it expires, and give it a much more noticeable sound and visual.

Generally we need to stop nerfing classes, that leads to a boring generic meta. Buff the underperforming ones.

I am of the same mind as you on that subject but corrosive is an outlier. Its well know it has been too strong for years. Theres a reason its banned in every duel tournament because a DK using Corrosive wont lose

Corosive armor is banned in duell tournaments because it is a defensive ultimate and all defensive ultimates( and sets) are disabled in duell tournaments to make duellants more squishy and reduce duell length. Werewolf is also still banned from almost all duell tournaments althought it makes the user weaker not stronger.

Weckless wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

Ideally both would apply [snip]

Find me one single player with a DK above rank 20 who excuses the state of the class in PvP. I've only written that Corrosive should keep its "tanklet" theme and not be a purely offensive Ult because it never was, and I think plenty of other 5 star DKs agree and we certainly don't need "training wheels", I don't even play the class because it's too easy these days.

Nearly every imaginable point has already been discussed in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf#latest

Long story short I would agree with making it a proper "Transformation Ult" - raising its cost and disabling Ult Gen during it. Some could make the argument disabling Ult Gen is an unfair hit to DK's sustain which is a valid suggestion, but then again it's not really going to hurt the class is it. The only real logical problem there would be that Magma Shell in PvE doesn't need to have its Ult Gen disabled - so why would one morph be a Transformation and not the other.

I and other have suggested it just be balanced as more of a "Poison version of Northern Storm", but the simplest way I guess would just be to considerably raise its cost. Goliath and Vamp Ult both make you tankier than Corrosive, in my experience.

PS. Other Ults do generate Ult while active? It's just the Transformation ones and Overload that don't I thought?

I never said anything any 5 star DKs or anything of the sort you are implying so I have no idea what that's about.
And if they do then I wasnt aware but I was treating it more like a transformation because it functions like one. And I disagree about vamp ult making you tankier than corrosive. It just gives you a lot of health and base stats pretty much but they can still be bursted. Corrosive makes being bursted inpossible and the only way to die is to have either so many people on you to the point your game isn't even running smoothly or a few people focusing you with pressure builds with so many negative effects on you they can't fit on the screen and they chip away at your health 3% at time

[edited to remove quote]

Dont know why everyone tries to burst down dks while they are in corrosive armor. I also dont try to burst someone down while they are blocking/using shieldulti/goliath/vampre, because it is doesnt work. 10k more hp from vampre ulti makes it much harder to burst and most otherwise sucessful burst combos fail. As a solo player you cant burst 40k hp. It also gives you 10k max stamina and magicka(If you use orzogas and 64 health youre pool is very low), deals half of destro ult dmg for three times the duration and heals you for 20% of the dmg done including ulti dmg. Goliath ulti with 30k extra hp makes it completely impossible for a solo player and most smallscales to burst and the ulti also deals high aoe dmg.
Normaly you try to burst down players when their defense is weakest not strongest. With bloodspawn and daedrick trickery, heroism otions and nord you get maybe 40% uptime, much lower without them, so 60% of the time the dk is vulnerable to your burst combos and deals low dmg because he doesnt have penetration.

If Corrosive gets nerfed than no ult regen in corrosive or a slightly shorter duration would be best to keep corrosive identity while preventing permacorrosive builds.

I offered the same solution as you did. Another reason corrosive is so oppressive though is bc it synergizes so well with the dks ability to lock someone down and prevent them from escaping. Before this patch they also had the increased range making them harder to kite as well, which didn't go away just everyone has it now. The most frustrating thing tho is that when you get your burst window the dks choose to sit there on their ice staff or s&b until it's ready again creating never ending cycles of defending then attacking eachother. I just choose not to fight these people but in some game modes they can make themselves pretty hard to ignore

WoppaBoem

Weckless wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Maybe make Corrosive prevent ult gen until it expires, and give it a much more noticeable sound and visual.

Generally we need to stop nerfing classes, that leads to a boring generic meta. Buff the underperforming ones.

I am of the same mind as you on that subject but corrosive is an outlier. Its well know it has been too strong for years. Theres a reason its banned in every duel tournament because a DK using Corrosive wont lose

Corosive armor is banned in duell tournaments because it is a defensive ultimate and all defensive ultimates( and sets) are disabled in duell tournaments to make duellants more squishy and reduce duell length. Werewolf is also still banned from almost all duell tournaments althought it makes the user weaker not stronger.

Weckless wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

Ideally both would apply [snip]

Find me one single player with a DK above rank 20 who excuses the state of the class in PvP. I've only written that Corrosive should keep its "tanklet" theme and not be a purely offensive Ult because it never was, and I think plenty of other 5 star DKs agree and we certainly don't need "training wheels", I don't even play the class because it's too easy these days.

Nearly every imaginable point has already been discussed in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf#latest

Long story short I would agree with making it a proper "Transformation Ult" - raising its cost and disabling Ult Gen during it. Some could make the argument disabling Ult Gen is an unfair hit to DK's sustain which is a valid suggestion, but then again it's not really going to hurt the class is it. The only real logical problem there would be that Magma Shell in PvE doesn't need to have its Ult Gen disabled - so why would one morph be a Transformation and not the other.

I and other have suggested it just be balanced as more of a "Poison version of Northern Storm", but the simplest way I guess would just be to considerably raise its cost. Goliath and Vamp Ult both make you tankier than Corrosive, in my experience.

PS. Other Ults do generate Ult while active? It's just the Transformation ones and Overload that don't I thought?

I never said anything any 5 star DKs or anything of the sort you are implying so I have no idea what that's about.
And if they do then I wasnt aware but I was treating it more like a transformation because it functions like one. And I disagree about vamp ult making you tankier than corrosive. It just gives you a lot of health and base stats pretty much but they can still be bursted. Corrosive makes being bursted inpossible and the only way to die is to have either so many people on you to the point your game isn't even running smoothly or a few people focusing you with pressure builds with so many negative effects on you they can't fit on the screen and they chip away at your health 3% at time

[edited to remove quote]

Dont know why everyone tries to burst down dks while they are in corrosive armor. I also dont try to burst someone down while they are blocking/using shieldulti/goliath/vampre, because it is doesnt work. 10k more hp from vampre ulti makes it much harder to burst and most otherwise sucessful burst combos fail. As a solo player you cant burst 40k hp. It also gives you 10k max stamina and magicka(If you use orzogas and 64 health youre pool is very low), deals half of destro ult dmg for three times the duration and heals you for 20% of the dmg done including ulti dmg. Goliath ulti with 30k extra hp makes it completely impossible for a solo player and most smallscales to burst and the ulti also deals high aoe dmg.
Normaly you try to burst down players when their defense is weakest not strongest. With bloodspawn and daedrick trickery, heroism otions and nord you get maybe 40% uptime, much lower without them, so 60% of the time the dk is vulnerable to your burst combos and deals low dmg because he doesnt have penetration.

If Corrosive gets nerfed than no ult regen in corrosive or a slightly shorter duration would be best to keep corrosive identity while preventing permacorrosive builds.

I offered the same solution as you did. Another reason corrosive is so oppressive though is bc it synergizes so well with the dks ability to lock someone down and prevent them from escaping. Before this patch they also had the increased range making them harder to kite as well, which didn't go away just everyone has it now. The most frustrating thing tho is that when you get your burst window the dks choose to sit there on their ice staff or s&b until it's ready again creating never ending cycles of defending then attacking eachother. I just choose not to fight these people but in some game modes they can make themselves pretty hard to ignore

Exactly this and again I am not pro or anti anything this playstyle is fine with me to exist but it does has to have more trade-offs and also again the developers have their own minds my suggestions wont matter much but something has to give right now nothing on the side of DK but all on the side of non DK players which is not how it should be there is some unfairness we all feel against these opponents.

Urzigurumash

Weckless wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Maybe make Corrosive prevent ult gen until it expires, and give it a much more noticeable sound and visual.

Generally we need to stop nerfing classes, that leads to a boring generic meta. Buff the underperforming ones.

I am of the same mind as you on that subject but corrosive is an outlier. Its well know it has been too strong for years. Theres a reason its banned in every duel tournament because a DK using Corrosive wont lose

Corosive armor is banned in duell tournaments because it is a defensive ultimate and all defensive ultimates( and sets) are disabled in duell tournaments to make duellants more squishy and reduce duell length. Werewolf is also still banned from almost all duell tournaments althought it makes the user weaker not stronger.

Weckless wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

Ideally both would apply [snip]

Find me one single player with a DK above rank 20 who excuses the state of the class in PvP. I've only written that Corrosive should keep its "tanklet" theme and not be a purely offensive Ult because it never was, and I think plenty of other 5 star DKs agree and we certainly don't need "training wheels", I don't even play the class because it's too easy these days.

Nearly every imaginable point has already been discussed in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf#latest

Long story short I would agree with making it a proper "Transformation Ult" - raising its cost and disabling Ult Gen during it. Some could make the argument disabling Ult Gen is an unfair hit to DK's sustain which is a valid suggestion, but then again it's not really going to hurt the class is it. The only real logical problem there would be that Magma Shell in PvE doesn't need to have its Ult Gen disabled - so why would one morph be a Transformation and not the other.

I and other have suggested it just be balanced as more of a "Poison version of Northern Storm", but the simplest way I guess would just be to considerably raise its cost. Goliath and Vamp Ult both make you tankier than Corrosive, in my experience.

PS. Other Ults do generate Ult while active? It's just the Transformation ones and Overload that don't I thought?

I never said anything any 5 star DKs or anything of the sort you are implying so I have no idea what that's about.
And if they do then I wasnt aware but I was treating it more like a transformation because it functions like one. And I disagree about vamp ult making you tankier than corrosive. It just gives you a lot of health and base stats pretty much but they can still be bursted. Corrosive makes being bursted inpossible and the only way to die is to have either so many people on you to the point your game isn't even running smoothly or a few people focusing you with pressure builds with so many negative effects on you they can't fit on the screen and they chip away at your health 3% at time

[edited to remove quote]

Dont know why everyone tries to burst down dks while they are in corrosive armor. I also dont try to burst someone down while they are blocking/using shieldulti/goliath/vampre, because it is doesnt work. 10k more hp from vampre ulti makes it much harder to burst and most otherwise sucessful burst combos fail. As a solo player you cant burst 40k hp. It also gives you 10k max stamina and magicka(If you use orzogas and 64 health youre pool is very low), deals half of destro ult dmg for three times the duration and heals you for 20% of the dmg done including ulti dmg. Goliath ulti with 30k extra hp makes it completely impossible for a solo player and most smallscales to burst and the ulti also deals high aoe dmg.
Normaly you try to burst down players when their defense is weakest not strongest. With bloodspawn and daedrick trickery, heroism otions and nord you get maybe 40% uptime, much lower without them, so 60% of the time the dk is vulnerable to your burst combos and deals low dmg because he doesnt have penetration.

If Corrosive gets nerfed than no ult regen in corrosive or a slightly shorter duration would be best to keep corrosive identity while preventing permacorrosive builds.

I offered the same solution as you did. Another reason corrosive is so oppressive though is bc it synergizes so well with the dks ability to lock someone down and prevent them from escaping. Before this patch they also had the increased range making them harder to kite as well, which didn't go away just everyone has it now. The most frustrating thing tho is that when you get your burst window the dks choose to sit there on their ice staff or s&b until it's ready again creating never ending cycles of defending then attacking eachother. I just choose not to fight these people but in some game modes they can make themselves pretty hard to ignore

This is a huge part of why Corrosive became overpowered in the era of hybridization: new or improved sources of CC.

Both Fossilize and Talons were quite expensive to run on StamDK always - Fossilize you could use but it was a big nerf to your Vigor/Rally by way of eating your Mag for Frag Shield, and Talons was almost cost-prohibitive outside of a large group.

And also, the big one, coming from someone who once had to persuade others that my Corrosive Titanic Cleave build wasn't complete trash and could reasonably compete with Spin 2 Win StamCros: Pull Sets. Probably nothing has changed PvP so much as these Pull Sets.

But, there's plenty of room for discussion about whether CC had gotten too weak for quite some time, any old DK will fondly remember the power of spamming Talons on Breaches and such back in the day.

Weckless

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Maybe make Corrosive prevent ult gen until it expires, and give it a much more noticeable sound and visual.

Generally we need to stop nerfing classes, that leads to a boring generic meta. Buff the underperforming ones.

I am of the same mind as you on that subject but corrosive is an outlier. Its well know it has been too strong for years. Theres a reason its banned in every duel tournament because a DK using Corrosive wont lose

Corosive armor is banned in duell tournaments because it is a defensive ultimate and all defensive ultimates( and sets) are disabled in duell tournaments to make duellants more squishy and reduce duell length. Werewolf is also still banned from almost all duell tournaments althought it makes the user weaker not stronger.

Weckless wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

Ideally both would apply [snip]

Find me one single player with a DK above rank 20 who excuses the state of the class in PvP. I've only written that Corrosive should keep its "tanklet" theme and not be a purely offensive Ult because it never was, and I think plenty of other 5 star DKs agree and we certainly don't need "training wheels", I don't even play the class because it's too easy these days.

Nearly every imaginable point has already been discussed in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf#latest

Long story short I would agree with making it a proper "Transformation Ult" - raising its cost and disabling Ult Gen during it. Some could make the argument disabling Ult Gen is an unfair hit to DK's sustain which is a valid suggestion, but then again it's not really going to hurt the class is it. The only real logical problem there would be that Magma Shell in PvE doesn't need to have its Ult Gen disabled - so why would one morph be a Transformation and not the other.

I and other have suggested it just be balanced as more of a "Poison version of Northern Storm", but the simplest way I guess would just be to considerably raise its cost. Goliath and Vamp Ult both make you tankier than Corrosive, in my experience.

PS. Other Ults do generate Ult while active? It's just the Transformation ones and Overload that don't I thought?

I never said anything any 5 star DKs or anything of the sort you are implying so I have no idea what that's about.
And if they do then I wasnt aware but I was treating it more like a transformation because it functions like one. And I disagree about vamp ult making you tankier than corrosive. It just gives you a lot of health and base stats pretty much but they can still be bursted. Corrosive makes being bursted inpossible and the only way to die is to have either so many people on you to the point your game isn't even running smoothly or a few people focusing you with pressure builds with so many negative effects on you they can't fit on the screen and they chip away at your health 3% at time

[edited to remove quote]

Dont know why everyone tries to burst down dks while they are in corrosive armor. I also dont try to burst someone down while they are blocking/using shieldulti/goliath/vampre, because it is doesnt work. 10k more hp from vampre ulti makes it much harder to burst and most otherwise sucessful burst combos fail. As a solo player you cant burst 40k hp. It also gives you 10k max stamina and magicka(If you use orzogas and 64 health youre pool is very low), deals half of destro ult dmg for three times the duration and heals you for 20% of the dmg done including ulti dmg. Goliath ulti with 30k extra hp makes it completely impossible for a solo player and most smallscales to burst and the ulti also deals high aoe dmg.
Normaly you try to burst down players when their defense is weakest not strongest. With bloodspawn and daedrick trickery, heroism otions and nord you get maybe 40% uptime, much lower without them, so 60% of the time the dk is vulnerable to your burst combos and deals low dmg because he doesnt have penetration.

If Corrosive gets nerfed than no ult regen in corrosive or a slightly shorter duration would be best to keep corrosive identity while preventing permacorrosive builds.

I offered the same solution as you did. Another reason corrosive is so oppressive though is bc it synergizes so well with the dks ability to lock someone down and prevent them from escaping. Before this patch they also had the increased range making them harder to kite as well, which didn't go away just everyone has it now. The most frustrating thing tho is that when you get your burst window the dks choose to sit there on their ice staff or s&b until it's ready again creating never ending cycles of defending then attacking eachother. I just choose not to fight these people but in some game modes they can make themselves pretty hard to ignore

This is a huge part of why Corrosive became overpowered in the era of hybridization: new or improved sources of CC.

Both Fossilize and Talons were quite expensive to run on StamDK always - Fossilize you could use but it was a big nerf to your Vigor/Rally by way of eating your Mag for Frag Shield, and Talons was almost cost-prohibitive outside of a large group.

And also, the big one, coming from someone who once had to persuade others that my Corrosive Titanic Cleave build wasn't complete trash and could reasonably compete with Spin 2 Win StamCros: Pull Sets. Probably nothing has changed PvP so much as these Pull Sets.

But, there's plenty of room for discussion about whether CC had gotten too weak for quite some time, any old DK will fondly remember the power of spamming Talons on Breaches and such back in the day.

Oh yea I've seen the rush of agony/Dark Convergence master 2h corrosive bombs lol. Do you still get any type of bonus from attacking in sneak in pvp?

HidesInPlainSight

I mean I could release some group builds for basically perma Corrosive if you want to make ZoS change Corrosive.

Weckless

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

I mean I could release some group builds for basically perma Corrosive if you want to make ZoS change Corrosive.

They already had perma corrosive builds running rampant when oakensoul came out and they didn't do anything but nerf oakensoul lol

HidesInPlainSight

Weckless wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

I mean I could release some group builds for basically perma Corrosive if you want to make ZoS change Corrosive.

They already had perma corrosive builds running rampant when oakensoul came out and they didn't do anything but nerf oakensoul lol

lol for real? I took a break during High Isle. Im glad I took that break then

Turtle_Bot

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

I mean I could release some group builds for basically perma Corrosive if you want to make ZoS change Corrosive.

They already had perma corrosive builds running rampant when oakensoul came out and they didn't do anything but nerf oakensoul lol

lol for real? I took a break during High Isle. Im glad I took that break then

yep, corrosive went untouched after the perma-corrosive oakensoul meta of U34, meanwhile sorcs that could barely have 2 atros up at the same time (they overlapped typically for around 2-3 seconds, 6 seconds if the sorc ran an ulti-gen build) got atro duration heavily reduced on top of a rework to atro and a bunch of other nerfs to the class...

It was very easy to see which class the devs wanted dead for U35/36, it definitely wasn't DK, that's for sure.

I still don't know why DK is allowed to generate ultimate during corrosive, even sorcs overload prevents ulti gen while its toggled on (and this update overload has become even more clunky to use than ever before with it now actively hindering weaving most abilities with its buffed light attacks while its active).

Weckless

Also why does whip keep its seething fury stacks if it is dodged. Seems a little preferential to me