Which role is the best fit for Azandar?

SilverBride

I am tempted to make him a tank because the only time I have my Companions with me is when I'm soloing Dungeons or World Bosses. But I've been happy with Isobel as my tank and see no reason to change that.

I've never tried using a Companion as a healer and wonder if maybe I should give that a try with him.

Any ideas?

Ecgberht_confused

I also have Isobel as a tank for my sorc main and she's excellent! On my new arcanist I only unlocked Azandar and planning to set him up as a tank as well. Hoping he becomes similar to Isobel in terms of survivability. He'll be providing me with minor vulnerability (high uptime), major vulnerability (ult), and debuffing bosses with minor maim. This is more support (dps increase) than I get from Isobel, I just hope he's also as difficult to kill as she is.

SilverBride

I considered tank for him because I know I'd use him more than if he was DPS or a Healer. I just wasn't sure how well that role really fits with who he is.

I'd be interested to hear how that works out for you.

SilverBride

Now that I think I may try him as tank, choosing his gear and build will be a challenge. I looked up 3 different tank builds and got 3 different setups.

They all recommend heavy armor but the traits differ.

One recommends all Bolstered.
One recommends all Vigorous.
One recommends a combination of Quickened and Vigorous.

Any thoughts?

Ecgberht_confused

What I ended up doing on Isobel, and will be repeating on Azandar, is going with the third option you listed (quickened/vigorous mix). I think the differences between all three strategies may be marginal, but the third one got me the best results.

I'm also planning on using 2 of those 20% mitigation skills (from fighters guild and DW) instead of his 2 shields skills. Though I'll do some experimenting but it seems to me shields won't be as effective.

SilverBride

I am so bad at theory crafting and figuring this stuff out, so I thank you for the insight. I am going to try the same!

Ecgberht_confused

You're welcome! Once he's levelled I'll report here how he's doing, and whether shields are better than those 20% mitigation skills

Necrotech_Master

i think generally speaking quickened tends to be the best trait because it reduces the cooldown on the companion skills, which provides far more uptime on buffs/debuffs, allows them to use their heals more option to help themselves stay alive (or heal you), or reapply shields more often

SilverBride

I appreciate all the great advice! Thanks!

Elvenheart

One thing I can add is that Hack the Minotaur mentioned that in his opinion Azander’s ultimate is the best companion ultimate in the game, and that his skills make him a good support ally. He’s got several suggested builds for Azander on his site for different roles.

Necrotech_Master

Elvenheart wrote: »

One thing I can add is that Hack the Minotaur mentioned that in his opinion Azander’s ultimate is the best companion ultimate in the game, and that his skills make him a good support ally. He’s got several suggested builds for Azander on his site for different roles.

for the debuffs, sure, but does it have some kind of absurd cast time like isobels ultimate? lol

isobels ultimate is so bad with its 3.8 sec cast time i actually removed it from her bar so she cant try to use it while tanking and leaving her vulnerable for the cast time (seen her too many times start trying to cast this ultimate and then get walloped or 1 shotted by some boss heavy)

Kesstryl

There's a new craftable armor set that reduces companion cool downs by 50% so you could still do all Vigorous if you choose to use that.

Ecgberht_confused

Mine is currently level 12 in all heavy with quickened/vigorous and 31k health. I decided to test him a bit. I took him to normal wayrest 1, spindleclutch 1, and tempest island and we did them together with me not healing him at all, not even once. He tanked and survived everything (apart from 1 time we both died to spindle's 2nd boss, the one that drains your resources and put you in a death circle). Sure normal base game dungeons aren't really a hard test, but he's still a level 12 baby

For skills I'm using his taunt (which applies minor maim), his burst heal, his minor vulnerability debuff, and then his 2 shields abor's augmented ward and shields of erudition (this one he also gives to me and allies so pretty cool). I still haven't unlocked the 20% mitigation skills, which i think might be better than shields, though now I'm actually rooting for the shields because one of them applies to allies. We'll see. But so far he looks very promising.

phaneub17_ESO

On the PTS with full quickened, telvanni efficiency, and ascendant ring its possible to stack 4 Zone of Recuperation on top of each other, I don't know if they fixed that for Live. Each stack adds up on each recovery, the healing is static for each one, magicka and stamina recovery have a diminishing return on how much it provides per stack. 1 = 150, 2 = 275, 3 = 375, 4 = 450 recovery. Even so, multiple players using Azandar probably stacks the same way.

Max quickened again If you give him The Triune Word, Starfall, and Sniping Silver he will never stop casting, by the time Sniping Silver finishes casting the first 2 spells are ready to go again. Triptych Physic in front to complete the craziness.

I plan on making him an all out buffer with 12 prolific, Shields of Erudition, Fate Omen's Inspiration, Tendrils of the Colorless Sea, Parallel, and Haste. He will be hitting Minor Vulnerability, Major Vulnerability, Minor Berserk, and shielding like a madman.

Hotdog_23

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

On the PTS with full quickened, telvanni efficiency, and ascendant ring its possible to stack 4 Zone of Recuperation on top of each other, I don't know if they fixed that for Live. Each stack adds up on each recovery, the healing is static for each one, magicka and stamina recovery have a diminishing return on how much it provides per stack. 1 = 150, 2 = 275, 3 = 375, 4 = 450 recovery. Even so, multiple players using Azandar probably stacks the same way.

Max quickened again If you give him The Triune Word, Starfall, and Sniping Silver he will never stop casting, by the time Sniping Silver finishes casting the first 2 spells are ready to go again. Triptych Physic in front to complete the craziness.

I plan on making him an all out buffer with 12 prolific, Shields of Erudition, Fate Omen's Inspiration, Tendrils of the Colorless Sea, Parallel, and Haste. He will be hitting Minor Vulnerability, Major Vulnerability, Minor Berserk, and shielding like a madman.

Interesting idea.

Stay safe

ADarklore

Running Telvanni Efficiency... on PTS and will also on Live once he's leveled, I'll have Azandar set as my main Tank. Unfortunately on PTS we had all Purple gear but on Live I have mostly Blues. Yet, he will be in 7 Heavy Bolstered with Purple Quickened Jewelry and Purple Quickened Sword/Shield.

Skills (in order): Abor's Augmented Ward, Scathing Rune (taunt), Ritual of Salvation, Shields of Erudition and Zone of Recuperation. On PTS he tanked everything perfectly, never died against any World Boss I took him against, and always kept me protected with shields, healing and damage reduction.

Vigorous only seems to fit for companions that have healing/shields that are based on 'max health', such as Bastian. Otherwise, I think Bolstered is better for tanks.

SilverBride

My Isobel is wearing all Bolstered which is what her build suggested, so I was surprised that none of the builds for Azandar recommended that. I just figured it had to do with his different class and skill set.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

My Isobel is wearing all Bolstered which is what her build suggested, so I was surprised that none of the builds for Azandar recommended that. I just figured it had to do with his different class and skill set.

from what ive seen a lot of the "recommended" builds arent necessarily the best

like theres a lot of suggested builds for a dps companion to use all aggressive gear (which sounds legit because of the +dmg trait), but because your companion will have longer cooldowns, sustained dps in a longer fight will be worse (their burst dmg will be pretty good for short term fights)

so for a dps companion the traits for cooldown reduction and/or penetration would be better in reality

so diving full into the "obvious" traits is not always the best way to go

SilverBride

I hope as we learn more about them the best builds will become more obvious because trying to figure this out just confuses me.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

I hope as we learn more about them the best builds will become more obvious because trying to figure this out just confuses me.

@phaneub17_ESO has probably done some of the most extensive testing regarding companion builds

would recommend reading their companion guide here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/620245/companions-basics-traits-and-mechanics

ADarklore

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

My Isobel is wearing all Bolstered which is what her build suggested, so I was surprised that none of the builds for Azandar recommended that. I just figured it had to do with his different class and skill set.

from what ive seen a lot of the "recommended" builds arent necessarily the best

like theres a lot of suggested builds for a dps companion to use all aggressive gear (which sounds legit because of the +dmg trait), but because your companion will have longer cooldowns, sustained dps in a longer fight will be worse (their burst dmg will be pretty good for short term fights)

so for a dps companion the traits for cooldown reduction and/or penetration would be better in reality

so diving full into the "obvious" traits is not always the best way to go

This is what I use on my DPS companions. Four times medium Quickened, three times medium Shattering (pen) and Quickened jewelry and weapons.

I've also seen many "guides" that offer 'best' builds and in reality, there is nothing best about them IMO. I'm sure many of them haven't taken the time to actually check numbers like @phaneub17_ESO has done, and instead make these builds based on tool tips and what they think is the best. I've learned to create my own builds based on what works for ME and how I play.

SilverBride

I looked at the guide @phaneub17_ESO posted on his thread but when it comes to theory crafting I completely shut down. I will wait and see what he puts in the Azandar section of his guide and make any changes I need then.

I greatly appreciate the time and effort that goes into making these guides.

BasP

ADarklore wrote: »

Running Telvanni Efficiency... on PTS and will also on Live once he's leveled, I'll have Azandar set as my main Tank. Unfortunately on PTS we had all Purple gear but on Live I have mostly Blues. Yet, he will be in 7 Heavy Bolstered with Purple Quickened Jewelry and Purple Quickened Sword/Shield.

Skills (in order): Abor's Augmented Ward, Scathing Rune (taunt), Ritual of Salvation, Shields of Erudition and Zone of Recuperation. On PTS he tanked everything perfectly, never died against any World Boss I took him against, and always kept me protected with shields, healing and damage reduction.

Vigorous only seems to fit for companions that have healing/shields that are based on 'max health', such as Bastian. Otherwise, I think Bolstered is better for tanks.

For someone that won't be using Telvanni Efficiency (if that changes anything), what companion do you think is the best Tank? Up until now I've only really used Mirri, as a Healer, but I thought it'd be nice to level one companion as a Tank too.

Necrotech_Master

BasP wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Running Telvanni Efficiency... on PTS and will also on Live once he's leveled, I'll have Azandar set as my main Tank. Unfortunately on PTS we had all Purple gear but on Live I have mostly Blues. Yet, he will be in 7 Heavy Bolstered with Purple Quickened Jewelry and Purple Quickened Sword/Shield.

Skills (in order): Abor's Augmented Ward, Scathing Rune (taunt), Ritual of Salvation, Shields of Erudition and Zone of Recuperation. On PTS he tanked everything perfectly, never died against any World Boss I took him against, and always kept me protected with shields, healing and damage reduction.

Vigorous only seems to fit for companions that have healing/shields that are based on 'max health', such as Bastian. Otherwise, I think Bolstered is better for tanks.

For someone that won't be using Telvanni Efficiency (if that changes anything), what companion do you think is the best Tank? Up until now I've only really used Mirri, as a Healer, but I thought it'd be nice to level one companion as a Tank too.

i dont use telvanni efficiency and i currently use isobel as my tank

i have her with the 1h shield taunt, her templar skill that gives her a shield + dmg reduction, the 1h shield dmg shield, then her version of purifying light, and her version of breath of life

she can survive most things with minimal extra healing, though in some dlc dungeons companions still straight up dont work well (due to mechanics, or because of others which they dont know they should block like the final boss of earthen root enclave with the lightning breath cone, the companions are too dumb to block that)

Zodiarkslayer

I will use Azandar as a healer in all Augmented light armor plus Resto Staff. I want my Comps at range, as far away from the Big Bosses, as possible.

Rejuvenation + Reverse Entropy + Zone of Recuperation will have very good uptimes, too. Thus actually making a decent healing build, if I should need it.

I will also check how much impact minor berserk and vulnerability really have.

For this I will most likely go the augmented route, since Augmented is much cheaper to buy plus extends the heals and the Ultimate debuff, too.

Ecgberht_confused

SilverBride wrote: »

My Isobel is wearing all Bolstered which is what her build suggested, so I was surprised that none of the builds for Azandar recommended that. I just figured it had to do with his different class and skill set.

This makes sense because Azandar's shields (or at least one of them) scales with his max health. So vigorous which buffs max health would benefit him more, in a way it's double dipping

ADarklore

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

My Isobel is wearing all Bolstered which is what her build suggested, so I was surprised that none of the builds for Azandar recommended that. I just figured it had to do with his different class and skill set.

This makes sense because Azandar's shields (or at least one of them) scales with his max health. So vigorous which buffs max health would benefit him more, in a way it's double dipping

The problem is, you're pretty much designing their armor based around ONE skill, which he doesn't use all the time. Whereas damage reduction is constant with Bolstered. So sure, with Vigorous he might get a slightly beefier shield, but once that shield drops he's going to be losing health. Whereas with Bolstered, combined with shields, combined with Ritual of Salvation, it all adds up to drop the amount of damage he takes. Bastian is the only one I've found Vigorous to work well with because of the amount of healing he receives with max health.

ADarklore

BasP wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Running Telvanni Efficiency... on PTS and will also on Live once he's leveled, I'll have Azandar set as my main Tank. Unfortunately on PTS we had all Purple gear but on Live I have mostly Blues. Yet, he will be in 7 Heavy Bolstered with Purple Quickened Jewelry and Purple Quickened Sword/Shield.

Skills (in order): Abor's Augmented Ward, Scathing Rune (taunt), Ritual of Salvation, Shields of Erudition and Zone of Recuperation. On PTS he tanked everything perfectly, never died against any World Boss I took him against, and always kept me protected with shields, healing and damage reduction.

Vigorous only seems to fit for companions that have healing/shields that are based on 'max health', such as Bastian. Otherwise, I think Bolstered is better for tanks.

For someone that won't be using Telvanni Efficiency (if that changes anything), what companion do you think is the best Tank? Up until now I've only really used Mirri, as a Healer, but I thought it'd be nice to level one companion as a Tank too.

A lot of people prefer Isobel as their main tank, I prefer Bastian. He was pretty much designed as a Dragonknight tank, and he works well in that regard. I think both can work well.

However, with Telvanni set, what I found on PTS is that Azandar was just amazing as tank. Not only do his defensive skills help himself, but they also heavily benefit the player as well. However, without TE set, I'm not sure he'd do as well without being able to cast those skills so frequently.

Necrotech_Master

ADarklore wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

My Isobel is wearing all Bolstered which is what her build suggested, so I was surprised that none of the builds for Azandar recommended that. I just figured it had to do with his different class and skill set.

This makes sense because Azandar's shields (or at least one of them) scales with his max health. So vigorous which buffs max health would benefit him more, in a way it's double dipping

The problem is, you're pretty much designing their armor based around ONE skill, which he doesn't use all the time. Whereas damage reduction is constant with Bolstered. So sure, with Vigorous he might get a slightly beefier shield, but once that shield drops he's going to be losing health. Whereas with Bolstered, combined with shields, combined with Ritual of Salvation, it all adds up to drop the amount of damage he takes. Bastian is the only one I've found Vigorous to work well with because of the amount of healing he receives with max health.

bastian and mirri both have self heals that heal based on % of max hp, where as most of the other newer companions dont

bastian has the dragon blood (25% max hp heal, and gives him dmg reduction), mirri has the cloak (25% max hp heal and full on dmg immunity for 3 sec)

so it makes sense that bastian would do better with a max hp trait gear

phaneub17_ESO

I'm thinking of redoing the format of the companion guide, that first post is getting rather long and I have a lot of updated information to add to it. Even if I add searchable tags, one post alone is overwhelming. I'll be combining the individual companions by chapter seeing as one post alone for each is unnecessary, that frees me up 3 extra posts.

You're going to be waiting a while for the new companions, It will take some time before I get both new companions to 20 to do some thorough testing. While I have access to the PTS, it isn't the same as Live with Templates vs my own characters, it doesn't have the same feel with game world experience. Plus everywhere is devoid of other players on PTS so it's not the same, taking on a dragon solo isn't going to give much data as opposed to running across one with multiple players attacking it. Harrowstorms, Dolmens, Geysers, Vents, etc. needs others around to get a good grasp on how well they perform.

phaneub17_ESO

Also... why does Azandar when as a quest follower has Fatecarver (his aim is terrible) in his arsenal, but when he becomes a companion he seems to forget all about it.