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Has your Tank been having problems with aggro in dungeons since Necrom? This is probably why...
N00BxV1
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✭
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Arcanist.
Who in the world thought it was a good idea to make the first skill that unlocks in a class skill line have a taunt ability!? Most people, especially newer players, are going to slot and use the first class skills that they get access to no matter what it is. Also in order to level a class skill line you must slot those class skills and earn experience. So what this causes is people going around in group content getting (or stealing) aggro because one of their first class skills to unlock just happens to have a taunt on it...
I'm currently leveling 2 Arcanist Tanks using the Dungeon Finder. And in every single dungeon that I've done this week there has been Arcanists spamming this taunt throughout the whole dungeons. I have also seen people straight-up steal aggro from me even while I'm spamming Pierce Armor (hard taunt)!!!
This is kinda like when Ice Staff heavy attacks used to taunt (if a certain passive was used) and people would be getting (or stealing) aggro because of it. Except now everyone in the group is getting aggro because they're using one of their first class skills that just happens to have a taunt on it... And it's just making pug dungeons to be a real pain in the keister...
Hopefully people will learn by the time they hit Veteran not to use the taunt in groups unless they are the Tank. But there will always be newer less-informed players joining and then the cycle continues...
Trying to fight for aggro does not make Tanking fun.
Edited by N00BxV1 on June 22, 2023 12:08AM Soldier of Apocrypha -- Runic Jolt
Craft a defensive Apocryphal rune that deals 1161 Magic Damage and applies Minor Maim for 15 seconds, reducing their damage done by 5%. The rune also taunts for 15 seconds if it would not cause taunt immunity, and generates Crux. While slotted, damage taken is reduced by 2% per active Crux.
Who in the world thought it was a good idea to make the first skill that unlocks in a class skill line have a taunt ability!? Most people, especially newer players, are going to slot and use the first class skills that they get access to no matter what it is. Also in order to level a class skill line you must slot those class skills and earn experience. So what this causes is people going around in group content getting (or stealing) aggro because one of their first class skills to unlock just happens to have a taunt on it...
I'm currently leveling 2 Arcanist Tanks using the Dungeon Finder. And in every single dungeon that I've done this week there has been Arcanists spamming this taunt throughout the whole dungeons. I have also seen people straight-up steal aggro from me even while I'm spamming Pierce Armor (hard taunt)!!!
This is kinda like when Ice Staff heavy attacks used to taunt (if a certain passive was used) and people would be getting (or stealing) aggro because of it. Except now everyone in the group is getting aggro because they're using one of their first class skills that just happens to have a taunt on it... And it's just making pug dungeons to be a real pain in the keister...
Hopefully people will learn by the time they hit Veteran not to use the taunt in groups unless they are the Tank. But there will always be newer less-informed players joining and then the cycle continues...
Trying to fight for aggro does not make Tanking fun.
26
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Hapexamendios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a simple rule: You taunt it, you tank it.
They'll either learn or die.24 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hapexamendios wrote: »It's a simple rule: You taunt it, you tank it.
They'll either learn or die.
It's not only about if they can fight it, when people get aggro they tend to run around, and for eg., with boss fights in a low dps group, taking the mobs away from the ground aoe's makes the fight unnecessarily longer.7 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's just normal dungeons where this is occurring, and it's not a soft taunt.
It was not a good idea to make the taunt ability the first skill to unlock in a class skill line. The class Armor skill for example would've made more sense and wouldn't have caused problems like Runic Jolt.
Runic Jolt will taunt as long as it wouldn't cause immunity. That means for example if I used Pierce Armor on a target and then someone else uses Runic Jolt on that same target it should not apply taunt. But if i soft-taunt a target with Chains/Leash or Runic Jolt and then someone else uses Runic Jolt on that same target it seems to override and apply soft-taunt from that other person. At least something is going on because I've tried taunting with Pierce Armor, Leash and also Runic Jolt but still sometimes lose aggro to other Arcanists. I've literally watched several bosses turn and completely ignore me while I was spamming Pierce Armor trying to get their attention back...
All the things people say only happen in normal dungeons also happen in veteran dungeons, just not as frequently because people don't want to be kicked. As a Doctor you should know that prevention is better than the cure.
Edited by N00BxV1 on June 22, 2023 12:04AM7 -
Ph1p✭✭✭✭✭
✭Per its tooltip, Runic Jolt should always taunt as long as it does not cause overtaunting, which now only happens if two different players apply 5 taunts on the same target in a certain amount of time. In that sense it is a hard taunt that overrides any others, including Pierce Armor, except in the rare case of causing taunt immunity.2 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think it's hilarious. Just stay back and enjoy the show. 🤣No Effort, No Reward?
No Reward, No Effort!2 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭Noob steals taunt from boss and dies in 3 seconds, actual tank retakes aggro and finishes fight.
Sounds like a self-correcting problem
3 -
KlauthWarthog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yup, I noticed that while hunting dragons yesterday.
Someone would inadvertently taunt the thing, then proceed to get eaten by it...
... and then repeat a couple seconds after resurrecting.
It was very amusing to watch, not gonna lie.7 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hapexamendios wrote: »It's a simple rule: You taunt it, you tank it.
They'll either learn or die.
True but when it causes an issue for the entire group then it is a problem.
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Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hapexamendios wrote: »It's a simple rule: You taunt it, you tank it.
They'll either learn or die.
True but when it causes an issue for the entire group then it is a problem.
It'll be part of the learning curve for everyone in the group, then. In my experience, people learn best the hard way. Tbf it'll be super frustrating if everyone in the group is a noob and no one has a clue why they all keep dying, but such is life.1 -
Kwik1✭✭✭✭If people can't read a skill description all the way through they deserve to get the problems they are having.
I am super happy this line gets a taunt skill like that and makes me want to play a tank again.
Also, the first skill line is the DPS line so they should be using that for DPS.
Reading matters4 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's just normal dungeons where this is occurring, and it's not a soft taunt.
It was not a good idea to make the taunt ability the first skill to unlock in a class skill line. The class Armor skill for example would've made more sense and wouldn't have caused problems like Runic Jolt.
It's not a hard taunt so by definition it is a soft taunt. It's just a different kind of soft taunt. Pierce Armor is hard taunt and Chains/Leash is soft taunt. Runic Jolt will taunt as long as it wouldn't cause immunity. That means for example if I used Pierce Armor on a target and then someone else uses Runic Jolt on that same target it should not apply taunt. But if i soft-taunt a target with Chains/Leash or Runic Jolt and then someone else uses Runic Jolt on that same target it seems to override and apply soft-taunt from that other person. At least something is going on because I've tried taunting with Pierce Armor, Leash and also Runic Jolt but still sometimes lose aggro to other Arcanists. I've literally watched several bosses turn and completely ignore me while I was spamming Pierce Armor trying to get their attention back...
All the things people say only happen in normal dungeons also happen in veteran dungeons, just not as frequently because people don't want to be kicked. As a Doctor you should know that prevention is better than the cure.
It's not a soft taunt. It's a hard taunt that will taunt until immunity is to be caused. The fact that it takes aggro when already locked onto another player's taunt makes it a hard taunt. Chains will only taunt if there is no taunt on the character. The simple fact that you are spamming pierce armor and the boss turns away from you is proof enough that it's a hard taunt.
They knew that players were going to spam it and cause overtaunting issues, especially at the lowest levels of gameplay. If they didn't add in the overtaunt condition, we would have threads like "ZOS ****ed up again! Tanks are USELESS due to this skill!" This is the only reason why that condition is on the Arcanist skill and not present on any others.2 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭That's a quite interesting way to solve the "fake tank" problems 😆Never get between a cat and it's candy!
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Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.1 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh. I thought it was broken and the boss was just purging my taunt haha. Something within me thought maybe it was other people taunting but if you’re going to do that just queue as tank… it’s faster.PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 4/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 25/26 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
1 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's just normal dungeons where this is occurring, and it's not a soft taunt.
It was not a good idea to make the taunt ability the first skill to unlock in a class skill line. The class Armor skill for example would've made more sense and wouldn't have caused problems like Runic Jolt.
It's not a hard taunt so by definition it is a soft taunt. It's just a different kind of soft taunt. Pierce Armor is hard taunt and Chains/Leash is soft taunt. Runic Jolt will taunt as long as it wouldn't cause immunity. That means for example if I used Pierce Armor on a target and then someone else uses Runic Jolt on that same target it should not apply taunt. But if i soft-taunt a target with Chains/Leash or Runic Jolt and then someone else uses Runic Jolt on that same target it seems to override and apply soft-taunt from that other person. At least something is going on because I've tried taunting with Pierce Armor, Leash and also Runic Jolt but still sometimes lose aggro to other Arcanists. I've literally watched several bosses turn and completely ignore me while I was spamming Pierce Armor trying to get their attention back...
All the things people say only happen in normal dungeons also happen in veteran dungeons, just not as frequently because people don't want to be kicked. As a Doctor you should know that prevention is better than the cure.
It's not a soft taunt. It's a hard taunt that will taunt until immunity is to be caused. The fact that it takes aggro when already locked onto another player's taunt makes it a hard taunt. Chains will only taunt if there is no taunt on the character. The simple fact that you are spamming pierce armor and the boss turns away from you is proof enough that it's a hard taunt.
They knew that players were going to spam it and cause overtaunting issues, especially at the lowest levels of gameplay. If they didn't add in the overtaunt condition, we would have threads like "ZOS ****ed up again! Tanks are USELESS due to this skill!" This is the only reason why that condition is on the Arcanist skill and not present on any others.
Okay so maybe it is a hard taunt.
What matters to me is that we will have to keep dealing with this from now on unless they change something because there will always be people making new Arcanists. And people will keep using this skill because it's one of the first to unlock and it does damage.
I can't blame people for using this skill though because most people will use whatever you give them. And when leveling a new character you really don't have much choice. This is just another problem that zos has created and now we have to deal with it...1 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's just normal dungeons where this is occurring, and it's not a soft taunt.
It was not a good idea to make the taunt ability the first skill to unlock in a class skill line. The class Armor skill for example would've made more sense and wouldn't have caused problems like Runic Jolt.
It's not a hard taunt so by definition it is a soft taunt. It's just a different kind of soft taunt. Pierce Armor is hard taunt and Chains/Leash is soft taunt. Runic Jolt will taunt as long as it wouldn't cause immunity. That means for example if I used Pierce Armor on a target and then someone else uses Runic Jolt on that same target it should not apply taunt. But if i soft-taunt a target with Chains/Leash or Runic Jolt and then someone else uses Runic Jolt on that same target it seems to override and apply soft-taunt from that other person. At least something is going on because I've tried taunting with Pierce Armor, Leash and also Runic Jolt but still sometimes lose aggro to other Arcanists. I've literally watched several bosses turn and completely ignore me while I was spamming Pierce Armor trying to get their attention back...
All the things people say only happen in normal dungeons also happen in veteran dungeons, just not as frequently because people don't want to be kicked. As a Doctor you should know that prevention is better than the cure.
It's not a soft taunt. It's a hard taunt that will taunt until immunity is to be caused. The fact that it takes aggro when already locked onto another player's taunt makes it a hard taunt. Chains will only taunt if there is no taunt on the character. The simple fact that you are spamming pierce armor and the boss turns away from you is proof enough that it's a hard taunt.
They knew that players were going to spam it and cause overtaunting issues, especially at the lowest levels of gameplay. If they didn't add in the overtaunt condition, we would have threads like "ZOS ****ed up again! Tanks are USELESS due to this skill!" This is the only reason why that condition is on the Arcanist skill and not present on any others.
Okay so maybe it is a hard taunt.
What matters to me is that we will have to keep dealing with this from now on unless they change something because there will always be people making new Arcanists. And people will keep using this skill because it's one of the first to unlock and it does damage.
I can't blame people for using this skill though because most people will use whatever you give them. And when leveling a new character you really don't have much choice. This is just another problem that zos has created and now we have to deal with it...
Look at it as a way for new players to learn the value of a real tank.0 -
prof_doom✭✭✭✭✭Arcanist.
This is kinda like when Ice Staff heavy attacks used to taunt (if a certain passive was used) and people would be getting (or stealing) aggro because of it. Except now everyone in the group is getting aggro because they're using one of their first class skills that just happens to have a taunt on it... And it's just making pug dungeons to be a real pain in the keister...
I honestly don't think this is a fair comparison. The passive thing was always kind of janky, especially when the tutorial trains you to follow up with heavy attacks, and it's not something you expect a passive skill to do.
This is no different than all the DPS who still run around with a sword and board puncturing things.3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hapexamendios wrote: »It's a simple rule: You taunt it, you tank it.
They'll either learn or die.
True but when it causes an issue for the entire group then it is a problem.
It'll be part of the learning curve for everyone in the group, then. In my experience, people learn best the hard way. Tbf it'll be super frustrating if everyone in the group is a noob and no one has a clue why they all keep dying, but such is life.
Thx for explaining a great reason why this is a poor design.
It is a poor design when the entire group suffers because one person needs to learn. It is only life when it is a poor design.
1 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hapexamendios wrote: »It's a simple rule: You taunt it, you tank it.
They'll either learn or die.
True but when it causes an issue for the entire group then it is a problem.
It'll be part of the learning curve for everyone in the group, then. In my experience, people learn best the hard way. Tbf it'll be super frustrating if everyone in the group is a noob and no one has a clue why they all keep dying, but such is life.
Thx for explaining a great reason why this is a poor design.
It is a poor design when the entire group suffers because one person needs to learn. It is only life when it is a poor design.
I have to contradict here. If experienced players are present, it's quite easy to tell the player not being aware of using a taunt that he is doing so and why that is bad outside of playing tank.
If this player is refusing to listen to advice then it's time for him to learn about consequences of refusing to cooperate in a shared world.Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.1
