Corpse Gameplay Hinders Necro Instead of Helping

CameraBeardThePirate

Now that the Arcanist is out, the issues with Corpse Gameplay have been highlighted by the Crux system. Both systems are "extra mechanics" that are supposed to deepen the class kit; manage corpses/crux well and you'll be rewarded. The Crux system does just this - if you have a good rotation and are mindful of the order in which you cast your abilities, you gain a lot. Crux doesn't decay, Crux isn't tied to a location, abilities can be used whether you have Crux or not, and most abilities that create Crux create it instantly on cast. If an ability doesn't directly generate or consume Crux, it most likely is buffed by your Crux level in some way.

In comparison, Corpse Gameplay is far more micromanage-y with far fewer potential benefits. Corpses are temporary (6 or 10 seconds for Necro-created corpses, depending on the skill), are completely stationary, and can only be created after at least half the duration of the ability has passed. Player sourced corpses can disappear instantly if the person revives, leaving you in a cold, cruel, corpse-less world. Furthermore, 3 of the Corpse Consumption Abilities (CCAs) can only be used in the presence of a corpse, and, outside of a meager passive buff while slotted, are virtually worthless in the absence of corpses. The 2 tether abilities are the truly problematic CCAs. In stationary PvE fights, they work as intended, but as soon as you hop into PvP or are put into a more mobile fight, these skills have a huge falloff in usefulness. Half of necro's abilities don't even interact with corpses or corpse gameplay, which isn't a bad thing inherently, but I see no reason why things like Empowering Grasp couldn't be buffed by corpses, or why Bone Totem shouldn't create a corpse when it ends, or even why the pets shouldn't be given a slight boost when summoned in the presence of corpses.

At the moment, corpses serve merely as an extra hoop you need to jump through in order to cast an ability. Corpses should be more impactful, and CCAs should be worth the extra steps and barriers of use. In a PvP setting, the Tethers are next to useless; this shouldn't be the case for two of the most visually striking and thematic skills in the kit. They should be reworked to make them more useful in non-stationary settings. More necro abilities should interact with corpses. Even something as simple as "increased effectiveness for each corpse within X meters" would go a long way in making the Necro kit feel more engaging.

Traditional Necromancer archetypes usually have a snowball effect - killing enemies strengthens them and makes it even easier to kill more. The only ability that currently snowballs like this is Animate Blastbones - and that ultimate doesn't even count as a CCA like it should (as well as having a myriad of other issues related to targeting). Please ZOS, let the players live out our Night King fantasies.

Necrotech_Master

the least gimmicky corpse skills would be like boneyard or life amid death

boneyard can be used with or without a corpse (it just gets a dmg boost with a corpse)

life amid death and morphs can consume corpses for additional effects (cleanse or extend the heal over time patch depending on morph)

the other skill that is useful with the corpses is necrotic potency because of the ult gen, you only need the corpse available to siphon and it gives you ultimate (and provides a passive benefit)

i would definitely agree the tethers are pretty gimmicky and a little on the weak side (though the sustain portions to help out my tanks) but to your point they are only good until the corpse goes away (such as a player sourced corpse) or you go out of range of where the corpse dropped

my idea on how to improve the tethers would be to be to change them so they are not tethers, just create a dot on the corpse, so you could potentially create multiple corpse dots (which would play into the classes focus on dots with the passive)

i also would agree that corpse generation (like fighting a boss with no adds) is also very difficult too because your only reliable (not slow) corpse generator is blastbones and even that is fairly slow at 2-3 seconds before it makes a corpse

then we start getting into the issues with the fact that most of the necromancer things that can create corpses are considered pets and dont proc anything

CameraBeardThePirate

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the least gimmicky corpse skills would be like boneyard or life amid death

boneyard can be used with or without a corpse (it just gets a dmg boost with a corpse)

life amid death and morphs can consume corpses for additional effects (cleanse or extend the heal over time patch depending on morph)

the other skill that is useful with the corpses is necrotic potency because of the ult gen, you only need the corpse available to siphon and it gives you ultimate (and provides a passive benefit)

i would definitely agree the tethers are pretty gimmicky and a little on the weak side (though the sustain portions to help out my tanks) but to your point they are only good until the corpse goes away (such as a player sourced corpse) or you go out of range of where the corpse dropped

my idea on how to improve the tethers would be to be to change them so they are not tethers, just create a dot on the corpse, so you could potentially create multiple corpse dots (which would play into the classes focus on dots with the passive)

i also would agree that corpse generation (like fighting a boss with no adds) is also very difficult too because your only reliable (not slow) corpse generator is blastbones and even that is fairly slow at 2-3 seconds before it makes a corpse

then we start getting into the issues with the fact that most of the necromancer things that can create corpses are considered pets and dont proc anything

I didn't mention Potency in my post because it was getting long winded, but Potency and Life Amid Death definitely feel the most Necromancer-y since the bonuses scale with the amount of corpses - the other CCAs should be put on par with these.

Necrotech_Master

yeah i think a bit of the problem is two-fold (to kind of sum it up)

corpse creation when there is not a lot of enemies (such as a boss with no adds)
corpse consumption (tethers to a single corpse are not the way to go with this)

a way i would see it working better is if you could say take mystic siphon or the poison morph and target an area and each corpse in the area created a small aoe dot (4-5 meters) it would significantly reduce the uselessness of these skills (and play more into the DoT bonus of the necromancer)

for balance that could have some cap of like 6 corpses

phaneub17_ESO

Also how the game treats corpse despawn timers, if you don't loot a corpse it remains an eligible target indefinitely until used. If you do loot a body then it will despawn in a matter of seconds and no longer useable. The same applies to corpse generated by your minions has a short window as an eligible target, enemies at dolmens that do not inherently have loot disappear within 1.5 seconds you have to react fast to benefit at all. Pre-generated corpse like as decoration are indefinite and respawn in 5 minutes, but are useable to certain abilities like Repentance, but not others like necromancy or werewolf.

GrimStyx

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah i think a bit of the problem is two-fold (to kind of sum it up)

corpse creation when there is not a lot of enemies (such as a boss with no adds)
corpse consumption (tethers to a single corpse are not the way to go with this)

a way i would see it working better is if you could say take mystic siphon or the poison morph and target an area and each corpse in the area created a small aoe dot (4-5 meters) it would significantly reduce the uselessness of these skills (and play more into the DoT bonus of the necromancer)

for balance that could have some cap of like 6 corpses

instead of AoE damage over time, it would be possible to blow up a corpse with mystic siphon, inflicting dot damage on all targets that were in the radius of the explosion, as a new ability for The Imperfect Ring arcanist, or as I suggested, reduce the duration of the teaser to 3-5 seconds, with a slight decrease in overall damage, and a burst explosion along the line at the end. The first option maybe more good, by the way, would be convenient to combine, blastbones + mystic siphon, blastbones exploded, then left a corpse that you use to instantly hang a dot on the nearest targets

GrimStyx

the skeleton mage and the skeleton archer should also interact and be called upon in the presence of a corpse, it would be cool if they could impose a major breach when attacking, and would have a health scale, well, they would hang some more dot damage when attacking. Also make a rework for Grave Grasp, for example, make the stun more reliable, and when the enemy or enemies are stunned, leave corpses, depending on the number of players who got into the stun, then you could quickly accumulate corpses, and use Animate Blastbones, or Deaden Pain, accordingly, the more players against you, the more profit, and vice versa

Remiem

It's too underdeveloped to even hinder the class, a lot of necro players just straight up ignore it in PvP.
All you get are a HoT with coil, a purge or an AoE HoT for healers with life amid death, or some (admittedly good) ult gen with necrotic potency.
The offensive uses are complete jokes, siphon is a purely PvE skill, so is boneyard now (and even when it was good the corpse consumption bonus was meaningless in PvP scenarios) and animate blastbones mostly a meme.

Necrotech_Master

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah i think a bit of the problem is two-fold (to kind of sum it up)

corpse creation when there is not a lot of enemies (such as a boss with no adds)
corpse consumption (tethers to a single corpse are not the way to go with this)

a way i would see it working better is if you could say take mystic siphon or the poison morph and target an area and each corpse in the area created a small aoe dot (4-5 meters) it would significantly reduce the uselessness of these skills (and play more into the DoT bonus of the necromancer)

for balance that could have some cap of like 6 corpses

instead of AoE damage over time, it would be possible to blow up a corpse with mystic siphon, inflicting dot damage on all targets that were in the radius of the explosion, as a new ability for The Imperfect Ring arcanist, or as I suggested, reduce the duration of the teaser to 3-5 seconds, with a slight decrease in overall damage, and a burst explosion along the line at the end. The first option maybe more good, by the way, would be convenient to combine, blastbones + mystic siphon, blastbones exploded, then left a corpse that you use to instantly hang a dot on the nearest targets

it sounds like that could be a good way to differentiate the morphs, one could leave dots where the corpses were that then explode (the poison/disease morph makes sense for this because the corpses would be "decomposing")

your idea for the mystic morph sounds good too, exploding the corpse instantly and applying a sticky dot

both options offer some pretty good gameplay and would be significantly more useful than the tethers

GrimStyx

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah i think a bit of the problem is two-fold (to kind of sum it up)

corpse creation when there is not a lot of enemies (such as a boss with no adds)
corpse consumption (tethers to a single corpse are not the way to go with this)

a way i would see it working better is if you could say take mystic siphon or the poison morph and target an area and each corpse in the area created a small aoe dot (4-5 meters) it would significantly reduce the uselessness of these skills (and play more into the DoT bonus of the necromancer)

for balance that could have some cap of like 6 corpses

instead of AoE damage over time, it would be possible to blow up a corpse with mystic siphon, inflicting dot damage on all targets that were in the radius of the explosion, as a new ability for The Imperfect Ring arcanist, or as I suggested, reduce the duration of the teaser to 3-5 seconds, with a slight decrease in overall damage, and a burst explosion along the line at the end. The first option maybe more good, by the way, would be convenient to combine, blastbones + mystic siphon, blastbones exploded, then left a corpse that you use to instantly hang a dot on the nearest targets

it sounds like that could be a good way to differentiate the morphs, one could leave dots where the corpses were that then explode (the poison/disease morph makes sense for this because the corpses would be "decomposing")

your idea for the mystic morph sounds good too, exploding the corpse instantly and applying a sticky dot

both options offer some pretty good gameplay and would be significantly more useful than the tethers

you apparently misunderstood the first option, I meant that zos can leave the ability the same in action, but reduce its duration to 3-5 seconds, for example, you use a siphon on a corpse, a line appears that deals large point damage along the line, but only instead of 20 seconds for 3-5 seconds, i.e. if you had 20k damage with a duration of 20 seconds, you would keep the damage at 20k, only it would be dealt over 3-5 seconds between you and the corpse, every second the line becomes brighter, accumulates a charge, energy and at the end of the action an explosion occurs along this line, which deals additional burst damage

Necrotech_Master

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah i think a bit of the problem is two-fold (to kind of sum it up)

corpse creation when there is not a lot of enemies (such as a boss with no adds)
corpse consumption (tethers to a single corpse are not the way to go with this)

a way i would see it working better is if you could say take mystic siphon or the poison morph and target an area and each corpse in the area created a small aoe dot (4-5 meters) it would significantly reduce the uselessness of these skills (and play more into the DoT bonus of the necromancer)

for balance that could have some cap of like 6 corpses

instead of AoE damage over time, it would be possible to blow up a corpse with mystic siphon, inflicting dot damage on all targets that were in the radius of the explosion, as a new ability for The Imperfect Ring arcanist, or as I suggested, reduce the duration of the teaser to 3-5 seconds, with a slight decrease in overall damage, and a burst explosion along the line at the end. The first option maybe more good, by the way, would be convenient to combine, blastbones + mystic siphon, blastbones exploded, then left a corpse that you use to instantly hang a dot on the nearest targets

it sounds like that could be a good way to differentiate the morphs, one could leave dots where the corpses were that then explode (the poison/disease morph makes sense for this because the corpses would be "decomposing")

your idea for the mystic morph sounds good too, exploding the corpse instantly and applying a sticky dot

both options offer some pretty good gameplay and would be significantly more useful than the tethers

you apparently misunderstood the first option, I meant that zos can leave the ability the same in action, but reduce its duration to 3-5 seconds, for example, you use a siphon on a corpse, a line appears that deals large point damage along the line, but only instead of 20 seconds for 3-5 seconds, between you and the corpse, while maintaining the same damage as if it were with a 20 second duration, every second the line becomes brighter, accumulates a charge, energy and at the end of the action an explosion occurs along this line, which deals additional burst damage,

personally i would rather move away from the tethers connected to the ground entirely, thats why i made the suggestion for converting the corpses into dots (instead of one you could hit multiple corpses, and you arent tethered to the corpse)

GrimStyx

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah i think a bit of the problem is two-fold (to kind of sum it up)

corpse creation when there is not a lot of enemies (such as a boss with no adds)
corpse consumption (tethers to a single corpse are not the way to go with this)

a way i would see it working better is if you could say take mystic siphon or the poison morph and target an area and each corpse in the area created a small aoe dot (4-5 meters) it would significantly reduce the uselessness of these skills (and play more into the DoT bonus of the necromancer)

for balance that could have some cap of like 6 corpses

instead of AoE damage over time, it would be possible to blow up a corpse with mystic siphon, inflicting dot damage on all targets that were in the radius of the explosion, as a new ability for The Imperfect Ring arcanist, or as I suggested, reduce the duration of the teaser to 3-5 seconds, with a slight decrease in overall damage, and a burst explosion along the line at the end. The first option maybe more good, by the way, would be convenient to combine, blastbones + mystic siphon, blastbones exploded, then left a corpse that you use to instantly hang a dot on the nearest targets

it sounds like that could be a good way to differentiate the morphs, one could leave dots where the corpses were that then explode (the poison/disease morph makes sense for this because the corpses would be "decomposing")

your idea for the mystic morph sounds good too, exploding the corpse instantly and applying a sticky dot

both options offer some pretty good gameplay and would be significantly more useful than the tethers

i agree, it's much better than tether, but, there is a better idea than just an explosion around the corpse, and a dot on the target, you can also add an explosion along the line itself, i.e. when applied to a corpse, the area around the corpse explodes, and also, a connection appears between you and the corpse, through which this instant explosion also passes, like a lightning strike, instead of a long teaser, which also hangs a dot on the target

GrimStyx

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah i think a bit of the problem is two-fold (to kind of sum it up)

corpse creation when there is not a lot of enemies (such as a boss with no adds)
corpse consumption (tethers to a single corpse are not the way to go with this)

a way i would see it working better is if you could say take mystic siphon or the poison morph and target an area and each corpse in the area created a small aoe dot (4-5 meters) it would significantly reduce the uselessness of these skills (and play more into the DoT bonus of the necromancer)

for balance that could have some cap of like 6 corpses

instead of AoE damage over time, it would be possible to blow up a corpse with mystic siphon, inflicting dot damage on all targets that were in the radius of the explosion, as a new ability for The Imperfect Ring arcanist, or as I suggested, reduce the duration of the teaser to 3-5 seconds, with a slight decrease in overall damage, and a burst explosion along the line at the end. The first option maybe more good, by the way, would be convenient to combine, blastbones + mystic siphon, blastbones exploded, then left a corpse that you use to instantly hang a dot on the nearest targets

it sounds like that could be a good way to differentiate the morphs, one could leave dots where the corpses were that then explode (the poison/disease morph makes sense for this because the corpses would be "decomposing")

your idea for the mystic morph sounds good too, exploding the corpse instantly and applying a sticky dot

both options offer some pretty good gameplay and would be significantly more useful than the tethers

you apparently misunderstood the first option, I meant that zos can leave the ability the same in action, but reduce its duration to 3-5 seconds, for example, you use a siphon on a corpse, a line appears that deals large point damage along the line, but only instead of 20 seconds for 3-5 seconds, between you and the corpse, while maintaining the same damage as if it were with a 20 second duration, every second the line becomes brighter, accumulates a charge, energy and at the end of the action an explosion occurs along this line, which deals additional burst damage,

personally i would rather move away from the tethers connected to the ground entirely, thats why i made the suggestion for converting the corpses into dots (instead of one you could hit multiple corpses, and you arent tethered to the corpse)

for example, this would be useful if there are a lot of corpses around you, but your focus target is not near the corpse, but is located between the corpse and you, then the tether will work like the explosion on the point with the corpse, and will not combine it burst damage at the site of the corpse explosion (which will be quite unbalanced) it will also put target dot, as in the place of the explosion of the corpse

Necrotech_Master

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah i think a bit of the problem is two-fold (to kind of sum it up)

corpse creation when there is not a lot of enemies (such as a boss with no adds)
corpse consumption (tethers to a single corpse are not the way to go with this)

a way i would see it working better is if you could say take mystic siphon or the poison morph and target an area and each corpse in the area created a small aoe dot (4-5 meters) it would significantly reduce the uselessness of these skills (and play more into the DoT bonus of the necromancer)

for balance that could have some cap of like 6 corpses

instead of AoE damage over time, it would be possible to blow up a corpse with mystic siphon, inflicting dot damage on all targets that were in the radius of the explosion, as a new ability for The Imperfect Ring arcanist, or as I suggested, reduce the duration of the teaser to 3-5 seconds, with a slight decrease in overall damage, and a burst explosion along the line at the end. The first option maybe more good, by the way, would be convenient to combine, blastbones + mystic siphon, blastbones exploded, then left a corpse that you use to instantly hang a dot on the nearest targets

it sounds like that could be a good way to differentiate the morphs, one could leave dots where the corpses were that then explode (the poison/disease morph makes sense for this because the corpses would be "decomposing")

your idea for the mystic morph sounds good too, exploding the corpse instantly and applying a sticky dot

both options offer some pretty good gameplay and would be significantly more useful than the tethers

you apparently misunderstood the first option, I meant that zos can leave the ability the same in action, but reduce its duration to 3-5 seconds, for example, you use a siphon on a corpse, a line appears that deals large point damage along the line, but only instead of 20 seconds for 3-5 seconds, between you and the corpse, while maintaining the same damage as if it were with a 20 second duration, every second the line becomes brighter, accumulates a charge, energy and at the end of the action an explosion occurs along this line, which deals additional burst damage,

personally i would rather move away from the tethers connected to the ground entirely, thats why i made the suggestion for converting the corpses into dots (instead of one you could hit multiple corpses, and you arent tethered to the corpse)

for example, this would be useful if there are a lot of corpses around you, but your focus target is not near the corpse, but is located between the corpse and you, then the teaser will work like the explosion on the point with the corpse, and will not complement it (which will be quite unbalanced) also hanging target dot, as in the place of the explosion of the corpse

again, problem with the tether, is you are limited to a specific range of the corpse, if there is a corpse 12m away on a 15m max tether, and you get knocked back, well there goes your tether, if you step too far back by accident, there goes your tether, you accidentally walk behind a short tree or wall, there goes your tether

tethering to the enemy makes sense (vateshran destro for example), tethering to another ally player makes sense (guard for example), tethering to the ground does not and just roots you from moving too far from that spot without breaking the tether

another problem is if your fighting an enemy, the enemy would still have to be between you and the corpse, the enemy could move to the side or behind you, then its not positioned right, so you would have to reposition again

a tether is far less useful than just creating a ground based dot in this case

GrimStyx

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah i think a bit of the problem is two-fold (to kind of sum it up)

corpse creation when there is not a lot of enemies (such as a boss with no adds)
corpse consumption (tethers to a single corpse are not the way to go with this)

a way i would see it working better is if you could say take mystic siphon or the poison morph and target an area and each corpse in the area created a small aoe dot (4-5 meters) it would significantly reduce the uselessness of these skills (and play more into the DoT bonus of the necromancer)

for balance that could have some cap of like 6 corpses

instead of AoE damage over time, it would be possible to blow up a corpse with mystic siphon, inflicting dot damage on all targets that were in the radius of the explosion, as a new ability for The Imperfect Ring arcanist, or as I suggested, reduce the duration of the teaser to 3-5 seconds, with a slight decrease in overall damage, and a burst explosion along the line at the end. The first option maybe more good, by the way, would be convenient to combine, blastbones + mystic siphon, blastbones exploded, then left a corpse that you use to instantly hang a dot on the nearest targets

it sounds like that could be a good way to differentiate the morphs, one could leave dots where the corpses were that then explode (the poison/disease morph makes sense for this because the corpses would be "decomposing")

your idea for the mystic morph sounds good too, exploding the corpse instantly and applying a sticky dot

both options offer some pretty good gameplay and would be significantly more useful than the tethers

you apparently misunderstood the first option, I meant that zos can leave the ability the same in action, but reduce its duration to 3-5 seconds, for example, you use a siphon on a corpse, a line appears that deals large point damage along the line, but only instead of 20 seconds for 3-5 seconds, between you and the corpse, while maintaining the same damage as if it were with a 20 second duration, every second the line becomes brighter, accumulates a charge, energy and at the end of the action an explosion occurs along this line, which deals additional burst damage,

personally i would rather move away from the tethers connected to the ground entirely, thats why i made the suggestion for converting the corpses into dots (instead of one you could hit multiple corpses, and you arent tethered to the corpse)

for example, this would be useful if there are a lot of corpses around you, but your focus target is not near the corpse, but is located between the corpse and you, then the teaser will work like the explosion on the point with the corpse, and will not complement it (which will be quite unbalanced) also hanging target dot, as in the place of the explosion of the corpse

again, problem with the tether, is you are limited to a specific range of the corpse, if there is a corpse 12m away on a 15m max tether, and you get knocked back, well there goes your tether, if you step too far back by accident, there goes your tether, you accidentally walk behind a short tree or wall, there goes your tether

tethering to the enemy makes sense (vateshran destro for example), tethering to another ally player makes sense (guard for example), tethering to the ground does not and just roots you from moving too far from that spot without breaking the tether

another problem is if your fighting an enemy, the enemy would still have to be between you and the corpse, the enemy could move to the side or behind you, then its not positioned right, so you would have to reposition again

a tether is far less useful than just creating a ground based dot in this case

you didn’t understand again, forget that this tether deals damage over time, now it deals damage instantly, like a burst, and an explosion is applied at the place of the corpse, which we talked about, tether and an explosion near the corpse = this is the same thing, just a teaser is a continuation of that explosion, only along the line between you and the corpse

Necrotech_Master

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah i think a bit of the problem is two-fold (to kind of sum it up)

corpse creation when there is not a lot of enemies (such as a boss with no adds)
corpse consumption (tethers to a single corpse are not the way to go with this)

a way i would see it working better is if you could say take mystic siphon or the poison morph and target an area and each corpse in the area created a small aoe dot (4-5 meters) it would significantly reduce the uselessness of these skills (and play more into the DoT bonus of the necromancer)

for balance that could have some cap of like 6 corpses

instead of AoE damage over time, it would be possible to blow up a corpse with mystic siphon, inflicting dot damage on all targets that were in the radius of the explosion, as a new ability for The Imperfect Ring arcanist, or as I suggested, reduce the duration of the teaser to 3-5 seconds, with a slight decrease in overall damage, and a burst explosion along the line at the end. The first option maybe more good, by the way, would be convenient to combine, blastbones + mystic siphon, blastbones exploded, then left a corpse that you use to instantly hang a dot on the nearest targets

it sounds like that could be a good way to differentiate the morphs, one could leave dots where the corpses were that then explode (the poison/disease morph makes sense for this because the corpses would be "decomposing")

your idea for the mystic morph sounds good too, exploding the corpse instantly and applying a sticky dot

both options offer some pretty good gameplay and would be significantly more useful than the tethers

you apparently misunderstood the first option, I meant that zos can leave the ability the same in action, but reduce its duration to 3-5 seconds, for example, you use a siphon on a corpse, a line appears that deals large point damage along the line, but only instead of 20 seconds for 3-5 seconds, between you and the corpse, while maintaining the same damage as if it were with a 20 second duration, every second the line becomes brighter, accumulates a charge, energy and at the end of the action an explosion occurs along this line, which deals additional burst damage,

personally i would rather move away from the tethers connected to the ground entirely, thats why i made the suggestion for converting the corpses into dots (instead of one you could hit multiple corpses, and you arent tethered to the corpse)

for example, this would be useful if there are a lot of corpses around you, but your focus target is not near the corpse, but is located between the corpse and you, then the teaser will work like the explosion on the point with the corpse, and will not complement it (which will be quite unbalanced) also hanging target dot, as in the place of the explosion of the corpse

again, problem with the tether, is you are limited to a specific range of the corpse, if there is a corpse 12m away on a 15m max tether, and you get knocked back, well there goes your tether, if you step too far back by accident, there goes your tether, you accidentally walk behind a short tree or wall, there goes your tether

tethering to the enemy makes sense (vateshran destro for example), tethering to another ally player makes sense (guard for example), tethering to the ground does not and just roots you from moving too far from that spot without breaking the tether

another problem is if your fighting an enemy, the enemy would still have to be between you and the corpse, the enemy could move to the side or behind you, then its not positioned right, so you would have to reposition again

a tether is far less useful than just creating a ground based dot in this case

you didn’t understand again, forget that this tether deals damage over time, now it deals damage instantly, like a burst, and an explosion is applied at the place of the corpse, which we talked about, tether and an explosion near the corpse = this is the same thing, just a teaser is a continuation of that explosion, only along the line between you and the corpse

and if you cant get the enemy between you and the corpse, it would still be useless

i would still prefer the corpse to be a basic ground dot that is "set and forget" instead of worrying about the position of, well, everything (you, the enemy, the corpse, anything else that might break LOS between any of those things)

GrimStyx

it would be nice if they brought the dragon back into a different ult morph as a full pet like sorс ult, and left this unfortunate colossus for those who want to burst damage instantly with a Major Vulnerability overlay, I think everyone would be happy

GrimStyx

so it is now a point that can be applied to the ground and forgotten, only there is no benefit from this, because for example the same pvp is very dynamic, and no one will stand inside the leash, it would be better if the explosion took place around the corpse, as well as between you and the corpse along the tether line, which imposed a dot on the target during the explosion

Necrotech_Master

while most ground dots are not that useful in pvp, they are still useful for stuff like choke points, the current tether setup is like way way worse in pvp than a standard ground dot, i dont even like it for pve either

the bigger problem in pvp is using a player corpse because as soon as they rez or respawn, there goes your corpse effect too

GrimStyx

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while most ground dots are not that useful in pvp, they are still useful for stuff like choke points, the current tether setup is like way way worse in pvp than a standard ground dot, i dont even like it for pve either

the bigger problem in pvp is using a player corpse because as soon as they rez or respawn, there goes your corpse effect too

I already cited The Imperfect Ring arcanist skill as an example, as for me, similar mechanics would be the best implementation for a necro tether

Necrotech_Master

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while most ground dots are not that useful in pvp, they are still useful for stuff like choke points, the current tether setup is like way way worse in pvp than a standard ground dot, i dont even like it for pve either

the bigger problem in pvp is using a player corpse because as soon as they rez or respawn, there goes your corpse effect too

I already cited The Imperfect Ring arcanist skill as an example, as for me, similar mechanics would be the best implementation for a necro tether

i havent used arcanist at all yet, so im not familiar with all the skills lol

though i think in general we are both in agreement that the current tether is awful lol

GrimStyx

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while most ground dots are not that useful in pvp, they are still useful for stuff like choke points, the current tether setup is like way way worse in pvp than a standard ground dot, i dont even like it for pve either

the bigger problem in pvp is using a player corpse because as soon as they rez or respawn, there goes your corpse effect too

I already cited The Imperfect Ring arcanist skill as an example, as for me, similar mechanics would be the best implementation for a necro tether

i havent used arcanist at all yet, so im not familiar with all the skills lol

though i think in general we are both in agreement that the current tether is awful lol

The Imperfect Ring leaves a dot effect that applies in an area

blastbones fly at the target leaving a corpse, you use a siphon on the corpse and explode it, leaving on all enemies in the radius of the explosion and along the line of the tether a dot effect, in my opinion, a great combination

Necrotech_Master

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while most ground dots are not that useful in pvp, they are still useful for stuff like choke points, the current tether setup is like way way worse in pvp than a standard ground dot, i dont even like it for pve either

the bigger problem in pvp is using a player corpse because as soon as they rez or respawn, there goes your corpse effect too

I already cited The Imperfect Ring arcanist skill as an example, as for me, similar mechanics would be the best implementation for a necro tether

i havent used arcanist at all yet, so im not familiar with all the skills lol

though i think in general we are both in agreement that the current tether is awful lol

The Imperfect Ring leaves a dot effect that applies in an area

blastbones fly at the target leaving a corpse, you use a siphon on the corpse and explode it, leaving on all enemies in the radius of the explosion and along the line of the tether a dot effect, in my opinion, a great combination

i think that is the intention with the current tether, but due to how slow blastbones is, the whole thing just sucks to use and you get more mileage out of just using boneyard over a tether

now if blastbones itself would leave a dot aoe after it explodes and we skip the tether entirely, that would work for me too

GrimStyx

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while most ground dots are not that useful in pvp, they are still useful for stuff like choke points, the current tether setup is like way way worse in pvp than a standard ground dot, i dont even like it for pve either

the bigger problem in pvp is using a player corpse because as soon as they rez or respawn, there goes your corpse effect too

I already cited The Imperfect Ring arcanist skill as an example, as for me, similar mechanics would be the best implementation for a necro tether

i havent used arcanist at all yet, so im not familiar with all the skills lol

though i think in general we are both in agreement that the current tether is awful lol

The Imperfect Ring leaves a dot effect that applies in an area

blastbones fly at the target leaving a corpse, you use a siphon on the corpse and explode it, leaving on all enemies in the radius of the explosion and along the line of the tether a dot effect, in my opinion, a great combination

i think that is the intention with the current tether, but due to how slow blastbones is, the whole thing just sucks to use and you get more mileage out of just using boneyard over a tether

now if blastbones itself would leave a dot aoe after it explodes and we skip the tether entirely, that would work for me too

the tether line will no longer deal damage over time, i just call it tether to make it clearer what i'm talking about, it just becomes a stretch when a corpse explodes, you apply a tether on a corpse, it explodes, and the damage from this explosion around corpse also instantly passes through the visual line, between the corpse and you, and does not continue to act over time, as it does now, also the damage dealt by this ability leaves a dot effect on all enemies hit, I meant this

Necrotech_Master

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while most ground dots are not that useful in pvp, they are still useful for stuff like choke points, the current tether setup is like way way worse in pvp than a standard ground dot, i dont even like it for pve either

the bigger problem in pvp is using a player corpse because as soon as they rez or respawn, there goes your corpse effect too

I already cited The Imperfect Ring arcanist skill as an example, as for me, similar mechanics would be the best implementation for a necro tether

i havent used arcanist at all yet, so im not familiar with all the skills lol

though i think in general we are both in agreement that the current tether is awful lol

The Imperfect Ring leaves a dot effect that applies in an area

blastbones fly at the target leaving a corpse, you use a siphon on the corpse and explode it, leaving on all enemies in the radius of the explosion and along the line of the tether a dot effect, in my opinion, a great combination

i think that is the intention with the current tether, but due to how slow blastbones is, the whole thing just sucks to use and you get more mileage out of just using boneyard over a tether

now if blastbones itself would leave a dot aoe after it explodes and we skip the tether entirely, that would work for me too

the tether line will no longer deal damage over time, i just call it tether to make it clearer what i'm talking about, it just becomes a stretch when a corpse explodes, you apply a tether on a corpse, it explodes, and the damage from this explosion around corpse also instantly passes through the visual line, between the corpse and you, and does not continue to act over time, as it does now, also the damage dealt by this ability leaves a dot effect on all enemies hit, I meant this

that wouldnt be a tether then lol, that would just be "make corpse explode" with a projectile going from you to the corpse

and if you were going to have it apply a dot, then it would basically function almost exactly as i described the mystic siphon should work (you explode the corpse and apply a lingering dot) (the animation on how you explode the corpse could be whatever)

the stam one i suggested would be the alternative where it could create multiple static ground dots that then explode for some dmg (kind of similar to unstable wall of elements, but better dmg since the dot area is smaller)

GrimStyx

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while most ground dots are not that useful in pvp, they are still useful for stuff like choke points, the current tether setup is like way way worse in pvp than a standard ground dot, i dont even like it for pve either

the bigger problem in pvp is using a player corpse because as soon as they rez or respawn, there goes your corpse effect too

I already cited The Imperfect Ring arcanist skill as an example, as for me, similar mechanics would be the best implementation for a necro tether

i havent used arcanist at all yet, so im not familiar with all the skills lol

though i think in general we are both in agreement that the current tether is awful lol

The Imperfect Ring leaves a dot effect that applies in an area

blastbones fly at the target leaving a corpse, you use a siphon on the corpse and explode it, leaving on all enemies in the radius of the explosion and along the line of the tether a dot effect, in my opinion, a great combination

i think that is the intention with the current tether, but due to how slow blastbones is, the whole thing just sucks to use and you get more mileage out of just using boneyard over a tether

now if blastbones itself would leave a dot aoe after it explodes and we skip the tether entirely, that would work for me too

the tether line will no longer deal damage over time, i just call it tether to make it clearer what i'm talking about, it just becomes a stretch when a corpse explodes, you apply a tether on a corpse, it explodes, and the damage from this explosion around corpse also instantly passes through the visual line, between the corpse and you, and does not continue to act over time, as it does now, also the damage dealt by this ability leaves a dot effect on all enemies hit, I meant this

that wouldnt be a tether then lol, that would just be "make corpse explode" with a projectile going from you to the corpse

and if you were going to have it apply a dot, then it would basically function almost exactly as i described the mystic siphon should work (you explode the corpse and apply a lingering dot) (the animation on how you explode the corpse could be whatever)

the stam one i suggested would be the alternative where it could create multiple static ground dots that then explode for some dmg (kind of similar to unstable wall of elements, but better dmg since the dot area is smaller)

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GrimStyx wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

while most ground dots are not that useful in pvp, they are still useful for stuff like choke points, the current tether setup is like way way worse in pvp than a standard ground dot, i dont even like it for pve either

the bigger problem in pvp is using a player corpse because as soon as they rez or respawn, there goes your corpse effect too

I already cited The Imperfect Ring arcanist skill as an example, as for me, similar mechanics would be the best implementation for a necro tether

i havent used arcanist at all yet, so im not familiar with all the skills lol

though i think in general we are both in agreement that the current tether is awful lol

The Imperfect Ring leaves a dot effect that applies in an area

blastbones fly at the target leaving a corpse, you use a siphon on the corpse and explode it, leaving on all enemies in the radius of the explosion and along the line of the tether a dot effect, in my opinion, a great combination

i think that is the intention with the current tether, but due to how slow blastbones is, the whole thing just sucks to use and you get more mileage out of just using boneyard over a tether

now if blastbones itself would leave a dot aoe after it explodes and we skip the tether entirely, that would work for me too

the tether line will no longer deal damage over time, i just call it tether to make it clearer what i'm talking about, it just becomes a stretch when a corpse explodes, you apply a tether on a corpse, it explodes, and the damage from this explosion around corpse also instantly passes through the visual line, between the corpse and you, and does not continue to act over time, as it does now, also the damage dealt by this ability leaves a dot effect on all enemies hit, I meant this

that wouldnt be a tether then lol, that would just be "make corpse explode" with a projectile going from you to the corpse

and if you were going to have it apply a dot, then it would basically function almost exactly as i described the mystic siphon should work (you explode the corpse and apply a lingering dot) (the animation on how you explode the corpse could be whatever)

the stam one i suggested would be the alternative where it could create multiple static ground dots that then explode for some dmg (kind of similar to unstable wall of elements, but better dmg since the dot area is smaller)

that's what I was trying to say, burst aoe damage when you activate, and next in aoe dot target damage (not to be confused with aoe damage on the ground), see how The Imperfect Ring works with an arcanist, and you will understand what a type of damage I'm talking about, but only this skill would still have additionally an initial explosion