Why on Earth was Skooma Smuggler Nerfed?

Jammy420

Skooma Smuggler: This set now requires you to be in combat to gain its effects.

This is a completely ridiculous change. You have to drink potions constantly to get the effect, which makes it incredibly expensive. And you have to sacrifice 2 jewelry enchantments or traits for it to be even remotely useful. This completely ruins the set for scroll running as well. Just because y'all made another alchemy set does not mean you should ruin the existing sets.

This is a perfect example of a good niche set, being ruined for some arbitrary reason no one asked for. Why? Why are you punishing people for actually TAKING THE TIME to make viable creative niche builds ? Even worse, there was no explanation, no warning it was coming in the PTS so we could discuss WHY it is a bad idea, and then simply pushing it through for some mysterious reason.

gariondavey

Maybe trial groups were using it then swapping to other sets after proccing it?

Jammy420

gariondavey wrote: »

Maybe trial groups were using it then swapping to other sets after proccing it?

That doesnt matter because it still persists after combat ends. This was a completely nonsensical change. It just makes it so you are forced to attack wolves or something when running through cyro or overland. It overly complicates a set hardly anyone is using. This is right up there with Clever Alchemist being changed to you having to be in combat to work. When the " in combat system " is so buggy as it currently is, there is 0 logical reasoning behind tying the proc to being in combat actively.

Furthermore , it is extremely infuriating to spend the time building a viable off meta potion necro build, and it gets nerfed without ANY communication as to why during the PTS or in the release patch notes.

Kisakee

How about using a better set for running:

And as it's a crafted set you can even alter the weight class.

Jammy420

Kisakee wrote: »

How about using a better set for running:

And as it's a crafted set you can even alter the weight class.

Why would I use a non potion set for a potion build? That's just ridiculous. Also if you compare the other stats in said set, they are nothing like skooma , I'd have to change my entire build. Which is silly when no one asked for this, and there was no discussion or even mention of it.

Kisakee

Yeah, sorry for trying to help out. Not gonna happen again. If you want to rage maybe try to redirect it to the right target.

Brrrofski

They changed most those seta a while back because pc players in trials were getting effects of stuff and swapping gear.

Armor Master, seventh Legion etc.

Now doing it with arena weapons.

Guess this is another one.

But it's always PvP "ruining PvE" apparently...

Dagoth_Rac

They are slowly but surely changing all sets to be in-combat-only. Basically, meta players find best set to "pre-buff" with, switch to another set right after triggering set, then start fight. ZOS changes set to be combat only. Meta players then switch to a new set to pre-buff, which ZOS subsequently change to be combat only. Rinse, repeat, patch after patch.

There was a suggestion to change all sets to "must have set fully equipped or lose buff", but that would probably wreak havoc with bar swap. Just treat every set as combat only. They all will be sooner or later.

Jammy420

Kisakee wrote: »

Yeah, sorry for trying to help out. Not gonna happen again. If you want to rage maybe try to redirect it to the right target.

That was most definitely not raging out. I am just slightly annoyed that i spent millions golding out the smuggler gear only to have it nerfed with no prior notice, or mention in pts patch notes, with 0 reasoning. Then you suggested a set that the only thing it has in common with skooma is the speed. I would need to replace clever alchemist, and balorgh monster to balance that out, which I will not do, because I spent millions golding everything out.

Brrrofski wrote: »

They changed most those seta a while back because pc players in trials were getting effects of stuff and swapping gear.

Armor Master, seventh Legion etc.

Now doing it with arena weapons.

Guess this is another one.

But it's always PvP "ruining PvE" apparently...

Yeah, this honestly really hit my buttons, because I RPd a alchemist necro, and the build was viable in pvp, pve, overland, everywhere, now I have to randomly attack enemies instead of just sprinting super fast passed them.

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

They are slowly but surely changing all sets to be in-combat-only. Basically, meta players find best set to "pre-buff" with, switch to another set right after triggering set, then start fight. ZOS changes set to be combat only. Meta players then switch to a new set to pre-buff, which ZOS subsequently change to be combat only. Rinse, repeat, patch after patch.

There was a suggestion to change all sets to "must have set fully equipped or lose buff", but that would probably wreak havoc with bar swap. Just treat every set as combat only. They all will be sooner or later.

No wonder they arent fixing the combat bug. They are making it a feature.

ganzaeso

Do not know why the did this change since adept rider exists. Probably going to be the next set nerfed. I forget the stats on skooma smuggler, but I think they are more offensive oriented.

Jammy420

ganzaeso wrote: »

Do not know why the did this change since adept rider exists. Probably going to be the next set nerfed. I forget the stats on skooma smuggler, but I think they are more offensive oriented.

Offensive and sustain. Yeah, it really looks like adept will be up next. I wouldnt mind this so much if the combat state wasnt so damn buggy.

Paralyse

Brrrofski wrote: »

They changed most those seta a while back because pc players in trials were getting effects of stuff and swapping gear.

Armor Master, seventh Legion etc.

Now doing it with arena weapons.

Guess this is another one.

But it's always PvP "ruining PvE" apparently...

I'm not aware of any situation where any trials players that I know of were set swapping before pulls to "get effects of stuff" -- the only thing I can think of is backbar arena weapons, whose buffs would persist when you switched to the front bar.

Do you have some other examples of where and when this was being done? Perhaps on super sweaty things such as score push / world record groups?

SandandStars

Last time they did this it was Willow’s Path that took a hard nerf, then a couple months later Wretched Vitality was introduced as part of a new DLC, basically a tweaked replacement for Willow’s.

So, maybe a new Skooma Smuggler replacement is coming in the nearish future… 😉

James-Wayne

They change sets mostly on data they receive from the live servers, community involved is very very small, being a data Analyst myself, I would probably rely on data as well, it tells the story way better than any community forum will.

Brrrofski

Paralyse wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

They changed most those seta a while back because pc players in trials were getting effects of stuff and swapping gear.

Armor Master, seventh Legion etc.

Now doing it with arena weapons.

Guess this is another one.

But it's always PvP "ruining PvE" apparently...

I'm not aware of any situation where any trials players that I know of were set swapping before pulls to "get effects of stuff" -- the only thing I can think of is backbar arena weapons, whose buffs would persist when you switched to the front bar.

Do you have some other examples of where and when this was being done? Perhaps on super sweaty things such as score push / world record groups?

Maybe 18 months to two years ago they changed a bunch and specifically said because people were pre buffing and then swapping.

Dr_Con

why would you spend millions golding out something that you only swap to for a second to drink a potion on to get a 30 second speed boost that doesn't increase with quality? It has the same 5th effect on green quality as it does golded out.

[snip]

Nevertheless, they've been known to nerf things without announcing before- see Caluurion's. I spent hundreds of thousands at the gold jewelry vendor on golden rings only for them to nerf it without announcing two weeks later with an update release.

[edited for baiting]

Jammy420

Dr_Con wrote: »

why would you spend millions golding out something that you only swap to for a second to drink a potion on to get a 30 second speed boost that doesn't increase with quality? It has the same 5th effect on green quality as it does golded out.

[snip]

Nevertheless, they've been known to nerf things without announcing before- see Caluurion's. I spent hundreds of thousands at the gold jewelry vendor on golden rings only for them to nerf it without announcing two weeks later with an update release.

I don't swap to the set for 30 seconds, you misunderstood me completely if you read that. I use the set all the time because I make viable to sets that work for all content and have maximum on average one hour a day to play. And a lot of people are in the same boat. These kinds of changes should be announced, not just suddenly be there. I use the set so I don't have to use a speed skill, giving necro they desperately needed extra skill slot.

Caluurons is also different, it was extremely op at first, skooma smuggler never was op, and people were hardly using it. Making it in combat only ruins the sets usability outside combat. It's ridiculous.

[edited quote]

Jammy420

Brrrofski wrote: »

Paralyse wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

They changed most those seta a while back because pc players in trials were getting effects of stuff and swapping gear.

Armor Master, seventh Legion etc.

Now doing it with arena weapons.

Guess this is another one.

But it's always PvP "ruining PvE" apparently...

I'm not aware of any situation where any trials players that I know of were set swapping before pulls to "get effects of stuff" -- the only thing I can think of is backbar arena weapons, whose buffs would persist when you switched to the front bar.

Do you have some other examples of where and when this was being done? Perhaps on super sweaty things such as score push / world record groups?

Maybe 18 months to two years ago they changed a bunch and specifically said because people were pre buffing and then swapping.

Then they should remove the buff if they swap, not ruin the utility, wouldn't that make more sense?

Jammy420

James-Wayne wrote: »

They change sets mostly on data they receive from the live servers, community involved is very very small, being a data Analyst myself, I would probably rely on data as well, it tells the story way better than any community forum will.

What is the point of the PTS then?

Jammy420

SandandStars wrote: »

Last time they did this it was Willow’s Path that took a hard nerf, then a couple months later Wretched Vitality was introduced as part of a new DLC, basically a tweaked replacement for Willow’s.

So, maybe a new Skooma Smuggler replacement is coming in the nearish future… 😉

They have a new potion set indeed in this DLC, but that is a super toxic way of doing things. Not everyone has tim to gold things out and then get hit by a nonsensical nerf

Jaraal

Jammy420 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

They change sets mostly on data they receive from the live servers, community involved is very very small, being a data Analyst myself, I would probably rely on data as well, it tells the story way better than any community forum will.

What is the point of the PTS then?

That's a tough one. I'd say to hope to find bugs and correct them before release, but the bugs that made it to Live (missing food buffs, books being unable to be read, bar swapping bug, lost transmutes, missing antiquity leads, etc) were all reported on PTS, but ignored. So... your guess is as good as mine.

Crimsonorion

Jammy420 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

They change sets mostly on data they receive from the live servers, community involved is very very small, being a data Analyst myself, I would probably rely on data as well, it tells the story way better than any community forum will.

What is the point of the PTS then?

Exploits, Hacks, truly game breaking BSOD bugs and things that hurt the company bottom line [Things that would delay the launch or not extend how long someone plays the game]. If they can still launch an update on time without game breaking bugs and not lose money for a delayed launch..they will.

Yes, I know we've had DLC launch with bad bugs, but in the end the DLC gets launched on time, the higher ups are happy cause subs are still paying, so "small" bugs like the post above stated are most likely put on the "Fix post-launch" table

Jammy420

Crimsonorion wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

They change sets mostly on data they receive from the live servers, community involved is very very small, being a data Analyst myself, I would probably rely on data as well, it tells the story way better than any community forum will.

What is the point of the PTS then?

Exploits, Hacks, truly game breaking BSOD bugs and things that hurt the company bottom line [Things that would delay the launch or not extend how long someone plays the game]. If they can still launch an update on time without game breaking bugs and not lose money for a delayed launch..they will.

Yes, I know we've had DLC launch with bad bugs, but in the end the DLC gets launched on time, the higher ups are happy cause subs are still paying, so "small" bugs like the post above stated are most likely put on the "Fix post-launch" table

Well that's a toxic mindset. Money over customer satisfaction is a terrible way to run a business. There has to be a middle ground.

Crimsonorion

Jammy420 wrote: »

Crimsonorion wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

They change sets mostly on data they receive from the live servers, community involved is very very small, being a data Analyst myself, I would probably rely on data as well, it tells the story way better than any community forum will.

What is the point of the PTS then?

Exploits, Hacks, truly game breaking BSOD bugs and things that hurt the company bottom line [Things that would delay the launch or not extend how long someone plays the game]. If they can still launch an update on time without game breaking bugs and not lose money for a delayed launch..they will.

Yes, I know we've had DLC launch with bad bugs, but in the end the DLC gets launched on time, the higher ups are happy cause subs are still paying, so "small" bugs like the post above stated are most likely put on the "Fix post-launch" table

Well that's a toxic mindset. Money over customer satisfaction is a terrible way to run a business. There has to be a middle ground.

As long as subs still pay and Crowns are being purchased then customer satisfaction will always be "in the positive" to ZOS, its just how games like this work.

Sure you see a few people post about "This change/bug/update etc sucks, been playing this game since launch and will not be renewing my sub until the maker of this game fixes it" but honestly a small % of those people actually unsub or stay unsubbed for more then a couple months so in the end its a grain of sand being removed from the desert

BlueRaven

Jammy420 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

They change sets mostly on data they receive from the live servers, community involved is very very small, being a data Analyst myself, I would probably rely on data as well, it tells the story way better than any community forum will.

What is the point of the PTS then?

Content creator videos.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

FayJolyn

Well that's unfortunate. I've been wanting to create a potion build for an Argonian NB at some point. Sets like Skooma Smuggler where already quite niche, others would argument even it's bad, but with this nerf I can really strike it of the list as viable options. And that list was short to begin with.

Jammy420

FayJolyn wrote: »

Well that's unfortunate. I've been wanting to create a potion build for an Argonian NB at some point. Sets like Skooma Smuggler where already quite niche, others would argument even it's bad, but with this nerf I can really strike it of the list as viable options. And that list was short to begin with.

Quite honestly one of the most absurd changes I have ever seen in this game.

No one really used it
It wasnt OP
Now it relies on the in combat system which is beyond broken.

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Can we maybe get ANY response about this change? There are better ways to prevent armor swapping mid dungeon or whatever, this is not the way, this is just a slap in the face of people who run niche viable builds.

Jammy420

Crimsonorion wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Crimsonorion wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

They change sets mostly on data they receive from the live servers, community involved is very very small, being a data Analyst myself, I would probably rely on data as well, it tells the story way better than any community forum will.

What is the point of the PTS then?

Exploits, Hacks, truly game breaking BSOD bugs and things that hurt the company bottom line [Things that would delay the launch or not extend how long someone plays the game]. If they can still launch an update on time without game breaking bugs and not lose money for a delayed launch..they will.

Yes, I know we've had DLC launch with bad bugs, but in the end the DLC gets launched on time, the higher ups are happy cause subs are still paying, so "small" bugs like the post above stated are most likely put on the "Fix post-launch" table

Well that's a toxic mindset. Money over customer satisfaction is a terrible way to run a business. There has to be a middle ground.

As long as subs still pay and Crowns are being purchased then customer satisfaction will always be "in the positive" to ZOS, its just how games like this work.

Sure you see a few people post about "This change/bug/update etc sucks, been playing this game since launch and will not be renewing my sub until the maker of this game fixes it" but honestly a small % of those people actually unsub or stay unsubbed for more then a couple months so in the end its a grain of sand being removed from the desert

Im wondering how good ESO is doing since diablo came out, I am betting numbers are REAL low.

[snip]

[edited for bashing]

SandandStars

Jammy420 wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

Last time they did this it was Willow’s Path that took a hard nerf, then a couple months later Wretched Vitality was introduced as part of a new DLC, basically a tweaked replacement for Willow’s.

So, maybe a new Skooma Smuggler replacement is coming in the nearish future… 😉

They have a new potion set indeed in this DLC, but that is a super toxic way of doing things. Not everyone has tim to gold things out and then get hit by a nonsensical nerf

Yes, it is.

Jammy420

SandandStars wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

Last time they did this it was Willow’s Path that took a hard nerf, then a couple months later Wretched Vitality was introduced as part of a new DLC, basically a tweaked replacement for Willow’s.

So, maybe a new Skooma Smuggler replacement is coming in the nearish future… 😉

They have a new potion set indeed in this DLC, but that is a super toxic way of doing things. Not everyone has tim to gold things out and then get hit by a nonsensical nerf

Yes, it is.

Like I can play a few hours a day at the very max, and thats when im not studying, doing my apprenticeship, cleaning the house, working out, etc. Nerfing something in the base game, [snip]. I am sick and tired of spending a ton of time researching all the sets, and seeing which ones compliment one another, only to find a good niche off meta build and then they nerf it. Not everone wants to use the new sets every damned dlc.

[edited for baiting]