Question: soloing Preserver of Galen - has achieving this any value to Raid guilds/players?

SkaiFaith

Title.
I've recently duod with random players (and 2 companions) the Two Gryphons WB in Summerset, the Unfinished Dolmen WB in Wrothgar and said Preserver of Galen, so I gained confidence.

Since I never touched Trial content nor DLC Dungeons yet, I was wondering if achieving soloing that gigaboss would mean anything to Raid guilds/players or if it would be useless not adding any actual value.

I know Raid Leads look at parses but I'm still curious... Any glory if I would ever be able to do this? Or just meh...

Also, side question, never fought against the Wandering bosses of the Deadlands - is there any difficulty difference between the two?

Any insight from veterans is much appreciated! Could be something better skipping entirely and not even worth trying, I don't know...

EDIT: also, since I'm already at it, what about soloing Dragons?

ArchMikem

Depends how snooty they are. To most of us plebians though, soloing a world boss, yes has a lot of value as a gauge of your build/ability.

Snamyap

Well, when soloing bosses you have to do all three roles of tanking, healing and damaging yourself. That won't happen in trials. (At least I assume so, I don't do trials.) So it's hard to compare I think.

Shlomo666

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I know Raid Leads look at parses but I'm still curious...

They usually only do that for veteran trials. They may then request certain classes, skills and gear sets too - especially from healers and tanks.

For normal trials they usually require only level 50 and cp 160.

Treeshka

Many raid guilds asks for logs from raids only.

SkaiFaith

Shlomo666 wrote: »

For normal trials they usually require only level 50 and cp 160.

Really?!
Never done one but hearing this I guess they are pretty forgiving and not that hard, right?
Knowing this, soloing the Preserver of Galen seems like a bigger achievement...

Treeshka wrote: »

Many raid guilds asks for logs from raids only.

Logs from Raids only sounds like a problem to someone who never did one...

Soarora

While it isn't used in guild rankings, I'd totally say go for it just to feel confident in yourself. Knowing how to swap setups around to be able to self-sustain and not die without a healer is a valuable skill due to "portal" mechanics in trials and 3dps dungeon runs.

FantasticFreddie

Short answer: as a raid lead I wouldn't see a lot of value in world boss clears

Longer answer: the ability to solo content meant for groups is never a bad thing, and it will help you build confidence and competence on your class. It won't tell you or anyone else how you will perform in a group, because group content and solo content have some differences.

Braffin

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Title.
I've recently duod with random players (and 2 companions) the Two Gryphons WB in Summerset, the Unfinished Dolmen WB in Wrothgar and said Preserver of Galen, so I gained confidence.

Since I never touched Trial content nor DLC Dungeons yet, I was wondering if achieving soloing that gigaboss would mean anything to Raid guilds/players or if it would be useless not adding any actual value.

I know Raid Leads look at parses but I'm still curious... Any glory if I would ever be able to do this? Or just meh...

Also, side question, never fought against the Wandering bosses of the Deadlands - is there any difficulty difference between the two?

Any insight from veterans is much appreciated! Could be something better skipping entirely and not even worth trying, I don't know...

EDIT: also, since I'm already at it, what about soloing Dragons?

It won't replace trial logs or at least dummy parses, and based on this it's also not possible to say if a player is fitting in a group. (There are a lot of good players out there, which unfortunately are unable/unwilling to cooperate.)

But, it shows definitely some skill as well as the player being able to play efficiently under some pressure and his ability to adapt to mechanics.

So, regarding you question, I'd say: If you bring a dummy parse showing some decent damage and on top of that a flawless vma run, most raiding groups would give it a try. I definitely would (except you did all of this using sergeant brokensoul, but that's another topic).

SkaiFaith

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

It won't tell you or anyone else how you will perform in a group, because group content and solo content have some differences.

Braffin wrote: »

It won't replace trial logs or at least dummy parses, and based on this it's also not possible to say if a player is fitting in a group. (There are a lot of good players out there, which unfortunately are unable/unwilling to cooperate.)
...most raiding groups would give it a try. I definitely would (except you did all of this using sergeant brokensoul, but that's another topic).

Yes, I have to use Oakensoul and it's also the reason why I'm afraid of touching Raids/Dragons/16mil Dummies, since my hands would really struggle to keep up for so long time straight; but I'm not using the META build, neither for sets nor class/race.

I think I get that to play in Raid teams you have to be able to swap gear to what the group needs, so I'm already out for that, but I was curious if any solo achievements would have meant "some kind of respect" from guilds, like if being able to solo a Dragon would mean anything...

By many answers I think I understand there's definitely some objective value in being able to solo hard stuff, but I shouldn't expect Raid guilds to accept me just for that - it's simply not the case, due to a multitude of factors.

So to summarize, I guess the answer to my question is: not really, just do it for yourself if you want; nobody will know/care but you'll feel better and that's already something.
(Seems a bit more pointless now, I've less motivation, but I'll see... it's still satisfying knowing you can go help anybody when they're asking for help in zone chat)

tsaescishoeshiner

I think a solo vet arena clear would be more compelling, because they involve more DPS checks/become much easier with DPS. They also test you on more different types of mechanics.

Someone can solo a Preserver without having high DPS. I guess you could send them a log, but your DPS would probably be lower than on a dummy, and definitelyless standardized/easier to compare with other players.

If there was a dummy version of a Preserver to fight (with attacks and all), THAT would be helpful because everyone could try it out.

Braffin

SkaiFaith wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

It won't tell you or anyone else how you will perform in a group, because group content and solo content have some differences.

Braffin wrote: »

It won't replace trial logs or at least dummy parses, and based on this it's also not possible to say if a player is fitting in a group. (There are a lot of good players out there, which unfortunately are unable/unwilling to cooperate.)
...most raiding groups would give it a try. I definitely would (except you did all of this using sergeant brokensoul, but that's another topic).

Yes, I have to use Oakensoul and it's also the reason why I'm afraid of touching Raids/Dragons/16mil Dummies, since my hands would really struggle to keep up for so long time straight; but I'm not using the META build, neither for sets nor class/race.

I think I get that to play in Raid teams you have to be able to swap gear to what the group needs, so I'm already out for that, but I was curious if any solo achievements would have meant "some kind of respect" from guilds, like if being able to solo a Dragon would mean anything...

By many answers I think I understand there's definitely some objective value in being able to solo hard stuff, but I shouldn't expect Raid guilds to accept me just for that - it's simply not the case, due to a multitude of factors.

So to summarize, I guess the answer to my question is: not really, just do it for yourself if you want; nobody will know/care but you'll feel better and that's already something.
(Seems a bit more pointless now, I've less motivation, but I'll see... it's still satisfying knowing you can go help anybody when they're asking for help in zone chat)

I want to clarify here, that it's definitely respectable and shows some skill, if you're able to solo harder overland content. I also want to emphasize that oakensoul isn't a "bad" mythic and my argument wasn't against it but referred to a specific broken build, which you aren't using anyways. So there is definitely no need to be less motivated

On the contrary: You mentioned about not being sure if you achieved something harder than normal trials. That you definitely did!

Regarding gear and group composition: Yes, everything inside trials is solely about the group, every member is a part of it and has to contribute to it.

That said, dpsing is only one part of the whole concept. Tanking, healing and supporting are the others (I dare to say here that the shiny dd is the most expendable member of the group. The others are the backbone all dds are relying on.)

Maybe tanking could be a satisfying experience to you, as you already showed some skill in managing aggro, keeping yourself alive and keeping an overview of the fight in general. All of that are skills highly demanded by any raidgroup (as most dds outside high end groups start panicking anyways if things go south).

So long story short: Don't discourage yourself because of some meta (you don't need it outside scorepushing and some trifectas anyways), but get in touch with some raidguilds, talk to them about your situation and experiences and give it a try

SkaiFaith

Braffin wrote: »

On the contrary: You mentioned about not being sure if you achieved something harder than normal trials. That you definitely did!

@Braffin Thank you very much for the encouragement! Really appreciated.
I didn't think this was harder than a Normal Trial... Useful info for sure!

Just now, I did the Preserver on my second attempt. First time I died while ressing Bastian (even if I taunted); the next I didn't care about him and focused on the Boss. It was definitely hard, had to move a lot and manage resources since I use both Magicka and Stamina and it tries to stun you and bomb you frequently. Had to take a pause at the end cause hands were hurting, but happy with the result.

Btw, yeah my setup is built on max stats as a Warden, so quite behind the Sergeant Sorcerer...

Thanks again~

SkaiFaith

And about "dds panicking"... My first build was a dd... And I absolutely panicked all the time in overland 😂 that's why I changed to tanks/solo builds.

I understood that, as someone else said above, I can do low dps and still clear hard content with enough patience.
New players be aware: I initially built for pure tank and bosses were resetting heath before I could kill them, so a pure tank build is not great to solo - it has to be mixed.

HappyDan

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Shlomo666 wrote: »

For normal trials they usually require only level 50 and cp 160.

Really?!
Never done one but hearing this I guess they are pretty forgiving and not that hard, right?
Knowing this, soloing the Preserver of Galen seems like a bigger achievement...

Treeshka wrote: »

Many raid guilds asks for logs from raids only.

Logs from Raids only sounds like a problem to someone who never did one...

Yeah you need to join open runs, get logs and then apply to other groups, thing is in most open runs that don't bother to check clears don't end really well so the logs gonna be scuffed.
But yeah you should still join discords and apply to any open run get clears and logs so you can join better groups.

rpa

Co-operating in group through unsoloable challenging content is different from soloing challenging content. It's not about being the most skilled and powerful but about being able to fulfil minium requirements of your role for the content and do the mechanics reliably. Join a compatible dungeon/trial guild and take their advice.

SkaiFaith

HappyDan wrote: »

Yeah you need to join open runs, get logs and then apply to other groups, thing is in most open runs that don't bother to check clears don't end really well so the logs gonna be scuffed.
But yeah you should still join discords and apply to any open run get clears and logs so you can join better groups.

I'm not much into the social aspect but now I'm curious to know - how does this work on consoles?
I mean... Logs and stuff like that... How do console guilds manage that?

colossalvoids

As an ex raider I'd say it's still okay for your personal journey and growth, but solo challenges you want to include in your application would be more in line with vma, vvh trifectas;) if you're talking about normal difficulty it matters not as you do not have any requirements for those whatsoever and it's not a raiding guild activity but one for a laid back social one more of.

You should not be discouraged by the fact that some activities aren't for the show or not valued highly if it's still a step in a journey. Experience adds up eventually is what matters, but you need a pretty broad range of experience for it to click properly. Like you won't be a good team player after doing any harder wb for a thousand times, but some situational awareness from it would help progressing or dealing with some already familiar mechanic. Try more, try harder, you'd be there eventually.

I've got my first veteran clears in trading guild actually when we were training in Craglorn "base game" ones. That's a good way to start honestly. Nowadays I'd guess it would also include regular vas and vcr also at the very least (maybe even +1 versions of those).

redlink1979

Your ability to solo "x" or "y" world boss has not much relevance for vet trials - for those, besides mechanics knowledge, you are required to do a minimum amount of damage. Tanks (main and support) and healers are required to have specific gear sets.
For the normal mode of trials, the only requirement is 160CP.
For DLC dungeons it's advisable that the player knows the mechanics, regardless of the role, because some of those mechanics are unavoidable and can wipe the entire group, even on normal mode.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

(...) Logs and stuff like that... How do console guilds manage that?

As a DD you're required to share a screenshot of your parse on a 6 million dummy or a 21 million dummy.

Shlomo666

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Shlomo666 wrote: »

For normal trials they usually require only level 50 and cp 160.

Really?!
Never done one but hearing this I guess they are pretty forgiving and not that hard, right?
Knowing this, soloing the Preserver of Galen seems like a bigger achievement...

It is similar to vet dungeons vs normal dungeons.
Bosses have less health, don't hit that hard, and some mechanics might not occur or missed without a wipe.
Best way to get your first experience: Find a friendly guild (they usually have a guild house where you can parse on a dummy too), which offers learning raids. The raid leader will explain all mechanics in such raids.
If you don't like guilds: Some twitch streamers go on learning raids with their viewers.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

Many raid guilds asks for logs from raids only.

Logs from Raids only sounds like a problem to someone who never did one...

I'm in a general purpose/trading guild, which also offers learning raids and veteran runs.
The requirements for veteran runs in this guild differ between base game trials and dlc trials.
As a dd you always have to show that you can parse a certain amount of damage on a trial dummy.
Healer and Tanks always need to prove that they have certain gear.

For veteran dlc trials they also want to see, that you could clear the base game (craglorn) trials.

Whether Oakensoul builds are accepted, depends on the raid leader, trial and if you run it on normal or veteran.
The Cloudrest trial for example has a mechanic, which doesn't go well with Oakensoul.

fizl101

SkaiFaith wrote: »

HappyDan wrote: »

Yeah you need to join open runs, get logs and then apply to other groups, thing is in most open runs that don't bother to check clears don't end really well so the logs gonna be scuffed.
But yeah you should still join discords and apply to any open run get clears and logs so you can join better groups.

I'm not much into the social aspect but now I'm curious to know - how does this work on consoles?
I mean... Logs and stuff like that... How do console guilds manage that?

Screenshots of achievements showing clears and pov videos. Also videos of parses

SkaiFaith

redlink1979 wrote: »

As a DD you're required to share a screenshot of your parse on a 6 million dummy or a 21 million dummy.

Oh! Good to know even a 6Mil Dummy is good for the parse. I have the 21Mil one but I never parsed on that because I think my hands would tear apart...

From what you people are saying it seems there is a huge difference between Normal and Veteran Trials if the former is a socially laid back activity and the second needs a so very specific approach.
Also, I've learned that even for Normal Trials or DLC Dungeons is truly important to know the mechanics - something I didn't have a problem with when soloing Base Game Dungeons even on Vet...

Thanks everyone for putting things more in perspective to me!

Hapexamendios

Having soloed dragons, harrowstorms and theb preserver myself and run trials. IIMO it has little to no practical value.

Dr_Con

Groups want to know how you can contribute to the group, not what you can do solo.

SkaiFaith

Reflecting on the difficulty level of the Preserver, I think hardship for me comes from it being at 10Milions health and having to move well a lot to avoid all the AoEs that can one-shot you if they hit you all together, BUT I'm thinking that the Valeguard Tower Boss in Rivenspire would be way more difficult if it simply had 10Milions heath too.

The Valeguard Tower one hit me way much harder with unavoidable damage, and it would be a pain to manage all the skeleton adds respawning during a 10Milions health long fight.
Even the Ash Titan fight in Vet City of Ash 2 has hit me harder probably... So maybe the Preserver is not that bad after all.

colossalvoids

Might advice mentioning your server/platform so someone might point you in a direction to try some activities in more relaxed way like open runs with friendly guilds etc. First impression also matters a lot and might be an inspiring or quitting moment for some depending on their experience.

SkaiFaith

@colossalvoids you are right in your suggestion but at this moment I'm not willing to enter the Trial experience, I don't feel "socially" ready, so maybe in the future... By how you described it I think one also has to be in the right mindset if he doesn't want to risk to get traumatized the first time XD

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

This thread has been moved to the Dungeons, Trials & Arenas section, as it is better suited there.

Thank you for your understanding.

Braffin

SkaiFaith wrote: »

@colossalvoids you are right in your suggestion but at this moment I'm not willing to enter the Trial experience, I don't feel "socially" ready, so maybe in the future... By how you described it I think one also has to be in the right mindset if he doesn't want to risk to get traumatized the first time XD

Definitely

Never forget we're playing a game here. The worst that can happen is, that we have to adjust our tactics and try again till this damn boss is going down.

Never play with people you're uncomfortable with. A game is here to have fun, trials are no exceptions from this rule.

Dagoth_Rac

There is not much social aspect to normal Trials. There are usually people putting together groups in Craglorn all the time via zone chat. You team up, smash your way through the Trial, rarely chatting and mostly ignoring mechanics because it is normal, collect your loot, then disperse never to see each other again.

SkaiFaith

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

There is not much social aspect to normal Trials. There are usually people putting together groups in Craglorn all the time via zone chat. You team up, smash your way through the Trial, rarely chatting and mostly ignoring mechanics because it is normal, collect your loot, then disperse never to see each other again.

@Dagoth_Rac this seems cool! But I have to ask, since I'm built for solo - would it be ok if I "queue" as a Tank for Normal Pug Trials but I only have one taunt slotted, one self heal, 3 damage abilities (1bar), 45-50K Health and 23K resistances?
I estimate to do around 60K+ DPS but I don't know which role should I assign myself in the scenario you suggested (?)... Also, I have the resources to only taunt the Boss, because I use a Lightning staff and taunt with inner rage (stamina).

The subsequent question is: using a solo build in Normal Trials, would I get scolded?

(EDIT: guess I could swap the Lightning for an Ice staff that boosts Resistances instead of penetration and swap inner rage for frost clench as taunt... Not a big issue)