Bewilderment Cards breaking the game.

NoSoup

Pretty simple really. When you draw a bewilderment card you can't call on any actions until you either play or select another card. Most the time it's not an issues but there's plenty of scenerios where this can stop you from potentially moving forward.

Nestor

That is kind of the point of a Bewilderment Card.

Necrotech_Master

the description on the bewilderment card states that it must be played immediately upon drawing, so you cannot perform other actions until the card is "played" (basically just putting it in the cooldown since it has no other effect)

Personofsecrets

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the description on the bewilderment card states that it must be played immediately upon drawing, so you cannot perform other actions until the card is "played" (basically just putting it in the cooldown since it has no other effect)

There is a bug that is preventing players from doing other game actions after Bewilderment cards have been drawn and discarded at the start of the turn.

There may be some other ways that the bug is triggered, but it can impact games in a meaningful way.

For example, after discarding my Bewilderment at the start of my turn and playing a Luxury Exports, I was unable to use the Delmene Patron ability to destroy the played Luxury Exports from my played cards pile and gain 1 prestige point. I was only able to use the Delmene Patron ability after interacting with a card from the tavern, but I really didn't want to buy a card from the Tavern and dilute my deck. This isn't how the game buttons should function and they are seemingly breaking because of something to do with Bewilderment cards.

NoSoup

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the description on the bewilderment card states that it must be played immediately upon drawing, so you cannot perform other actions until the card is "played" (basically just putting it in the cooldown since it has no other effect)

There is a bug that is preventing players from doing other game actions after Bewilderment cards have been drawn and discarded at the start of the turn.

There may be some other ways that the bug is triggered, but it can impact games in a meaningful way.

For example, after discarding my Bewilderment at the start of my turn and playing a Luxury Exports, I was unable to use the Delmene Patron ability to destroy the played Luxury Exports from my played cards pile and gain 1 prestige point. I was only able to use the Delmene Patron ability after interacting with a card from the tavern, but I really didn't want to buy a card from the Tavern and dilute my deck. This isn't how the game buttons should function and they are seemingly breaking because of something to do with Bewilderment cards.

Yes. So this is the exact situation I'm talking about. So I was in a position where I could win the game after playing a card that allowed an extra patron turn. The two patrons I had to turn were Red Eagle and the Druid King, had more than enough power to turn both but the draw card from turning Red Eagle was a bewilderment card, which was automatically played. Once it was played I was left with no other options but to "End My Turn" and loss the game as the other player was over 40 and had more points.

In hindsight I should have activated the Druid King first to avoid the possibility of a bewilderment card entering my hand when I had no other cards left to play but it doesn't change the fact that its broken.

Necrotech_Master

cant say ive run into those situations before, but i generally only play NPCs with tribute, and since tribute has existed i have never seen an npc use the rahjin patron to even give me a bewilderment (and i didnt encounter this issue the few times i did play pvp tribute games to finish card upgrades)

spartaxoxo

NoSoup wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the description on the bewilderment card states that it must be played immediately upon drawing, so you cannot perform other actions until the card is "played" (basically just putting it in the cooldown since it has no other effect)

There is a bug that is preventing players from doing other game actions after Bewilderment cards have been drawn and discarded at the start of the turn.

There may be some other ways that the bug is triggered, but it can impact games in a meaningful way.

For example, after discarding my Bewilderment at the start of my turn and playing a Luxury Exports, I was unable to use the Delmene Patron ability to destroy the played Luxury Exports from my played cards pile and gain 1 prestige point. I was only able to use the Delmene Patron ability after interacting with a card from the tavern, but I really didn't want to buy a card from the Tavern and dilute my deck. This isn't how the game buttons should function and they are seemingly breaking because of something to do with Bewilderment cards.

Yes. So this is the exact situation I'm talking about. So I was in a position where I could win the game after playing a card that allowed an extra patron turn. The two patrons I had to turn were Red Eagle and the Druid King, had more than enough power to turn both but the draw card from turning Red Eagle was a bewilderment card, which was automatically played. Once it was played I was left with no other options but to "End My Turn" and loss the game as the other player was over 40 and had more points.

In hindsight I should have activated the Druid King first to avoid the possibility of a bewilderment card entering my hand when I had no other cards left to play but it doesn't change the fact that its broken.

Yeah that's pretty unacceptable

GCJ_

NoSoup wrote: »

Yes. So this is the exact situation I'm talking about. So I was in a position where I could win the game after playing a card that allowed an extra patron turn. The two patrons I had to turn were Red Eagle and the Druid King, had more than enough power to turn both but the draw card from turning Red Eagle was a bewilderment card, which was automatically played. Once it was played I was left with no other options but to "End My Turn" and loss the game as the other player was over 40 and had more points.

In hindsight I should have activated the Druid King first to avoid the possibility of a bewilderment card entering my hand when I had no other cards left to play but it doesn't change the fact that its broken.

If your opponent had an agent in play you could use your power to attack or kill it to unlock the patron lock. Of course we cant manually specify how much power we'd like to use on agents, but if you can afford the power its an option. If you needed to turn a coin costing patron this will work as well, even exhausting your power but not killing it will do the same to unlock. Note that unlocking them may not always visually cue. You have to know that they are to use them after an unlock.

GCJ_

Personofsecrets wrote: »

For example, after discarding my Bewilderment at the start of my turn and playing a Luxury Exports, I was unable to use the Delmene Patron ability to destroy the played Luxury Exports from my played cards pile and gain 1 prestige point. I was only able to use the Delmene Patron ability after interacting with a card from the tavern, but I really didn't want to buy a card from the Tavern and dilute my deck. This isn't how the game buttons should function and they are seemingly breaking because of something to do with Bewilderment cards.

You should've been able to use the patrons after putting Luxury Exports into play as this action unlocks the patrons, though it may not visually appear that way with the glowing cues still darkened. Also if you are unfortunate to have to discard any amount of cards at the beginning of your turn thanks to that insanely stacking contract action card in the Rhajin deck, and you have bewilderment cards in your hand, manually choosing them to discard will not lock patrons afterward as long as none are auto-played after confirming, allowing you to use treasury (or any patron) if you wanted to. Again it may not visually appear so. Keep in mind that interacting with treasury/contract cards like barter will also unlock and do not dilute your deck, if you are in that situation again and they are available. Using Celarus cards to peek and put bewilderments into your cooldown also avoids the lock as they are not activated even though they count towards mechanics like vestments. In summary, bewilderment cards do not stop your opponent from combining crow into oblivion like it was meant for. Keeping crow out of their hands does, and this card and its bug does not do that. It ruins the game, almost as bad as being disconnected for an internal unexpected error that results in a loss of points and a timeout penalty for involuntarily ''deserting'' an opponent. Almost.

Personofsecrets

GCJ_ wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

For example, after discarding my Bewilderment at the start of my turn and playing a Luxury Exports, I was unable to use the Delmene Patron ability to destroy the played Luxury Exports from my played cards pile and gain 1 prestige point. I was only able to use the Delmene Patron ability after interacting with a card from the tavern, but I really didn't want to buy a card from the Tavern and dilute my deck. This isn't how the game buttons should function and they are seemingly breaking because of something to do with Bewilderment cards.

You should've been able to use the patrons after putting Luxury Exports into play as this action unlocks the patrons, though it may not visually appear that way with the glowing cues still darkened. Also if you are unfortunate to have to discard any amount of cards at the beginning of your turn thanks to that insanely stacking contract action card in the Rhajin deck, and you have bewilderment cards in your hand, manually choosing them to discard will not lock patrons afterward as long as none are auto-played after confirming, allowing you to use treasury (or any patron) if you wanted to. Again it may not visually appear so. Keep in mind that interacting with treasury/contract cards like barter will also unlock and do not dilute your deck, if you are in that situation again and they are available. Using Celarus cards to peek and put bewilderments into your cooldown also avoids the lock as they are not activated even though they count towards mechanics like vestments. In summary, bewilderment cards do not stop your opponent from combining crow into oblivion like it was meant for. Keeping crow out of their hands does, and this card and its bug does not do that. It ruins the game, almost as bad as being disconnected for an internal unexpected error that results in a loss of points and a timeout penalty for involuntarily ''deserting'' an opponent. Almost.

I believe that I was clicking on the Patron button even though it wasn't lighting up. I could be misremembering at this point since this example happened last month. You must have experienced the lighting effect not showing itself despite activation being possible. You also have a number of keen observations, so I have to think that I am misremembering. I'll post back if it happens again.

Are you EU? Good to see someone caring about the game. Thanks for the post.

Jordan_Black

Personofsecrets wrote: »

GCJ_ wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

For example, after discarding my Bewilderment at the start of my turn and playing a Luxury Exports, I was unable to use the Delmene Patron ability to destroy the played Luxury Exports from my played cards pile and gain 1 prestige point. I was only able to use the Delmene Patron ability after interacting with a card from the tavern, but I really didn't want to buy a card from the Tavern and dilute my deck. This isn't how the game buttons should function and they are seemingly breaking because of something to do with Bewilderment cards.

You should've been able to use the patrons after putting Luxury Exports into play as this action unlocks the patrons, though it may not visually appear that way with the glowing cues still darkened. Also if you are unfortunate to have to discard any amount of cards at the beginning of your turn thanks to that insanely stacking contract action card in the Rhajin deck, and you have bewilderment cards in your hand, manually choosing them to discard will not lock patrons afterward as long as none are auto-played after confirming, allowing you to use treasury (or any patron) if you wanted to. Again it may not visually appear so. Keep in mind that interacting with treasury/contract cards like barter will also unlock and do not dilute your deck, if you are in that situation again and they are available. Using Celarus cards to peek and put bewilderments into your cooldown also avoids the lock as they are not activated even though they count towards mechanics like vestments. In summary, bewilderment cards do not stop your opponent from combining crow into oblivion like it was meant for. Keeping crow out of their hands does, and this card and its bug does not do that. It ruins the game, almost as bad as being disconnected for an internal unexpected error that results in a loss of points and a timeout penalty for involuntarily ''deserting'' an opponent. Almost.

I believe that I was clicking on the Patron button even though it wasn't lighting up. I could be misremembering at this point since this example happened last month. You must have experienced the lighting effect not showing itself despite activation being possible. You also have a number of keen observations, so I have to think that I am misremembering. I'll post back if it happens again.

Are you EU? Good to see someone caring about the game. Thanks for the post.

Person you are correct - the patron is not lit up and also *does not work when you click it* if you try to do it immediately after drawing a bewilderment card. This has happened to me too, it's a bug.

spartaxoxo

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Can you pass this bug onto the team, it's actually game changing. This person lost a match they would have won.

ZOS_Kevin

Hi all, thanks for the tags here. We passed this along to the team and they have discovered a bug here and have been able to reproduce it. They will be working on a fix. We don't have a workaround at this time, but if one comes up, we'll follow up here. Once we have timing, we'll update. Thanks for flagging this for us.

Personofsecrets

Jordan_Black wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

GCJ_ wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

For example, after discarding my Bewilderment at the start of my turn and playing a Luxury Exports, I was unable to use the Delmene Patron ability to destroy the played Luxury Exports from my played cards pile and gain 1 prestige point. I was only able to use the Delmene Patron ability after interacting with a card from the tavern, but I really didn't want to buy a card from the Tavern and dilute my deck. This isn't how the game buttons should function and they are seemingly breaking because of something to do with Bewilderment cards.

You should've been able to use the patrons after putting Luxury Exports into play as this action unlocks the patrons, though it may not visually appear that way with the glowing cues still darkened. Also if you are unfortunate to have to discard any amount of cards at the beginning of your turn thanks to that insanely stacking contract action card in the Rhajin deck, and you have bewilderment cards in your hand, manually choosing them to discard will not lock patrons afterward as long as none are auto-played after confirming, allowing you to use treasury (or any patron) if you wanted to. Again it may not visually appear so. Keep in mind that interacting with treasury/contract cards like barter will also unlock and do not dilute your deck, if you are in that situation again and they are available. Using Celarus cards to peek and put bewilderments into your cooldown also avoids the lock as they are not activated even though they count towards mechanics like vestments. In summary, bewilderment cards do not stop your opponent from combining crow into oblivion like it was meant for. Keeping crow out of their hands does, and this card and its bug does not do that. It ruins the game, almost as bad as being disconnected for an internal unexpected error that results in a loss of points and a timeout penalty for involuntarily ''deserting'' an opponent. Almost.

I believe that I was clicking on the Patron button even though it wasn't lighting up. I could be misremembering at this point since this example happened last month. You must have experienced the lighting effect not showing itself despite activation being possible. You also have a number of keen observations, so I have to think that I am misremembering. I'll post back if it happens again.

Are you EU? Good to see someone caring about the game. Thanks for the post.

Person you are correct - the patron is not lit up and also *does not work when you click it* if you try to do it immediately after drawing a bewilderment card. This has happened to me too, it's a bug.

Are you using Delmene? Was a card in the played cards already for Delmene to target?

Roxxsmom

The NPCs, even the novice players, are using the Rhajin patron since the patch. In some games the npc will basically spam it every chance they get. Still possible to win, but it does make for very slow, tedious games.

The npcs are also back to using the crow on the first or second turn to get just 1 point. Maybe it's to prevent a patron victory? But it puts the human player in the position of waiting to use it until later in the game for a huge point payoff. They are also back to spamming the green and gold patrons every turn if they can as well.

Actually, the npc ToT games have become much slower and more sluggish/laggy since Necrom launched.

It's hard to explain, except that there's a noticeable delay between when I click a card and when it plays, and the npcs seem to be playing their cards in slow motion too. And I've had several crashes while playing ToT, including a couple where I couldn't get back in for a while (bumped from the server error). This wasn't an issue before. I don't think I'm going to play anymore unless this is fixed. It was using the npc dailies to get a bolus of resources everyday with a (vanishingly small now, it seems, haven't gotten a tapestry in ages, and I used to get them fairly often) chance at a tapestry or nice furnishing plan. But it's not worth the aggravation.

Roxxsmom

Oh, and I can't figure out how to edit my own posts to add this, but the bewilderment bug hasn't happened so far in the npc games I've played. The card plays first, as it is supposed to, but then you can play the rest of your cards.

o_Primate_o

Nestor wrote: »

That is kind of the point of a Bewilderment Card.

Trolls will buy a bewilderment card EVERY turn bloating your deck and theirs trim until they start playing for real! There should be a limit on how frequently you can buy the card or make it more expensive. I never select Rajin anymore for pvp despite how much I like it.

o_Primate_o

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

cant say ive run into those situations before, but i generally only play NPCs with tribute, and since tribute has existed i have never seen an npc use the rahjin patron to even give me a bewilderment (and i didnt encounter this issue the few times i did play pvp tribute games to finish card upgrades)

Npcs need to be reprogrammed. They never upgrade coin card, often ignore opponents patrons having no power effect, default to buying a card with power, only use sorcerer and hallelujah patrons, don't understand negative prestige from Rajin deck, etc. Very easy to beat when you understand their programming.

GCJ_

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I believe that I was clicking on the Patron button even though it wasn't lighting up. I could be misremembering at this point since this example happened last month. You must have experienced the lighting effect not showing itself despite activation being possible. You also have a number of keen observations, so I have to think that I am misremembering. I'll post back if it happens again.

Are you EU? Good to see someone caring about the game. Thanks for the post.

I am on Xbox NA. I do not know if the bug's effects are exactly the same across all platforms and servers, so you could be remembering correctly and my observations may not apply across the board just the same. I can't say for certain either way, only that what I've come across was on Xbox NA. Glad to see that its been confirmed a bug and hopefully the fix doesn't just make things worse. Now if anybody could pass along that other bug that gives you a penalty and takes ranked match points away from you after booting/dropping/disconnecting you during said ranked match.........