[Request] Please add player Tank and DPS service at the Fighters guild and Mage guild.

AvalonRanger

[Request] Please add player's Tank or Healer and DPS service(not NPC) at the both Fighters guild and Mage guild.

It's very different from just random grouping tool. Players need certification grade license each of Tank and DPS roles.
For example, If you passed highest grade, then you can sell more difficult mission for the players who will hire you.
If you success the mission, you can get "gold"(or reward) automatically from the guild, and it increase your role rank.
If you failed or abandon the mission, then you must pay money against guild or suffer penalty. And, you're client also
take back gold from guild.

At least, this system has possibility to solve fake role problem...maybe?

Braffin

I see what you're trying to do here and appreciate the effort.

The problem I see is that you would nonetheless be able to success the mission (I assume you have dungeon runs in mind.) as "fake role" and would therefore promoted for a role you didn't play at all.

ghastley

A “fake” tank or healer who succeeds would be on the way to becoming a real one. The game does need ways to develop support skills, and this has some good ideas to start from. The existence of companions makes it hard to separate player performance from the combo, so you could look like a decent tank if you built a good companion tank to do the job for you.

Maybe dungeon missions with three NPCs on your team, so you have to take the role assigned? That also eliminates the steamroller effect of three player DDs making the fourth member irrelevant.

Braffin

Yeah, I get the point of the suggestion, but what hinders me to for example "fake tank" a dungeon mission on a solo-dps build while achieving a rating as real tank by doing so?

And how would this bring me on the way to becoming a real tank?

Rogue_WolfESO

My heavy attack sorc has maxed out defensive stats, and hits for 35k+ damage. She can easily tank world bosses solo, self healing from the matriarch. Using your suggested idea, I could reach tank and dps status using one character. Even though I can tank and solo dps world bosses, and even solo 4 man dungeons, I would still be considered a "fake tank" in a dungeon setting.

phaneub17_ESO

No, people would just play the system, get highest tank certification then still queue up as a tank, race toward bosses, solo them and leave everyone else behind as always. Doing something for points because the system tells you what to do is easy, changing someone's behavior in real world action is not.

Necrotech_Master

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

No, people would just play the system, get highest tank certification then still queue up as a tank, race toward bosses, solo them and leave everyone else behind as always. Doing something for points because the system tells you what to do is easy, changing someone's behavior in real world action is not.

this

the problem with trying to add certification things is that its too easy to game the system and basically bypass it

you could equip tank gear, clear the certification, then unequip tank gear and still be tank certified

it wont change fake roles at all, and in fact probably annoy people 100x more than a fake role

Braffin

The only way to ensure that tanks and healers aren't "fake" is by creating content which forces us players to bring them along.

Interestingly it seems the players annoyed by "fake roles" and the player which want to tone down or "casualize" the last parts of this game which require solid builds, some skill and groupplay are mostly the same.

So, whatever is happening in random normals, I don't care anymore. You got what you asked for.

Elsonso

ghastley wrote: »

A “fake” tank or healer who succeeds would be on the way to becoming a real one.

A "fake" tank or healer that succeeds isn't a "fake" tank or healer...

As to the discussion at hand... ZOS should stay out of the business of certifying or enforcing roles. They make the game and provide the "kit" that covers the three roles. It is up to the players to pick through it and decide what to use and how to use it. This makes it so the players decide what is, or is not, a "tank", "healer", and "dps"... not ZOS.

El_Borracho

The only thing worse than a fake tank is a really bad real tank. Certification will not help that.

@Braffin agreed. When I queue for a random normal I don't expect greatness, or even goodness. The game has given us some new dungeon content that requires real tanks and encourages healers on vet. Then they give us the Oakensorc, which does not require a healer. Not against the one-bar zzzzzzzzzzzzzap builds, and I actually like running 1 tank/3 DDs in a dungeon as it makes it faster, but it does nothing to promote a true 4-man dungeon team with all 3 roles.

Braffin

El_Borracho wrote: »

The only thing worse than a fake tank is a really bad real tank. Certification will not help that.

@Braffin agreed. When I queue for a random normal I don't expect greatness, or even goodness. The game has given us some new dungeon content that requires real tanks and encourages healers on vet. Then they give us the Oakensorc, which does not require a healer. Not against the one-bar zzzzzzzzzzzzzap builds, and I actually like running 1 tank/3 DDs in a dungeon as it makes it faster, but it does nothing to promote a true 4-man dungeon team with all 3 roles.

Yeah, the fine thing about eso is that you don't have rigid group compositions (especially in dungeons) if the players decide to actually cooperate. Some of the smoothest runs I had in this game was 1T/3DD 3DD/1H or even 4DD. Just play mechanics, use some of your defensive options and help each other out.

This involves some basic knowledge about the class(es) someone is playing of course, just copying/pasting "meta" from the internet won't get anyone there.

And "play as you want" for myself and "do proper support" for the rest of the group is a quite limited approach and will result in quite limited results.

valenwood_vegan

Random strangers are hardly ever going to meet one's expectations. Even with some kind of "certification". It's not a *bad* idea, but I also don't think it would really change much. Certified random strangers are still random strangers, who may or may not play the way someone else expects them to.

I play with my friends and guildies and we communicate about what we expect to achieve and have tons of fun without all this role drama. But that's just me.

AvalonRanger

Well, sometimes I saw the people who want to buy Skyreach or Normal Black Rose Prison
xp farming carrier partner. Or, People keep searching member of casual daily dungeon pledge near the
undaunted quest giver place. (Personally, I don't feel much sense of Sky and BRP farming run.
It's extremely boring, and ineffective experience to improve your combat skill. And, not much
meaningful reward. ) Or just for Dragon hunting and Harrow-Storm work.

So, I felt there're something business necessity for those player hiring system.

Hvíthákarl

They implemented this kind of system in WoW -An MMO built with rigid roles in mind- and I absolutely loathed that system. It was an unbalanced mess and a chore. I don't see what such a system would add to ESO -whose design features flexible, hybrid, non-strict character roles-.

FantasticFreddie

What I would like to see is a tutorial that triggers the first time your toon ever queues for a dungeon.

Basically it would teleport you to a training facility, and it walks you through selecting your role, and some basic BASIC training. A tank has to maintain taunt for 40 seconds and block incoming damage, a healer has to heal a fighters guild member to full health while a wamasu chases him, a dd has to kill a low health dummy with at leat 1 skill and 1 light attack, etc.
At the beginning you are given the choice of a 2 piece bonus weapon set and a skill point-- these bonuses will be small and boring, but enough to get the point across, and the skill point is to ensure that you CAN unlock an appropriate skill.
At the end of each role tutorial, you are gifted a 5 piece set of armor with basic bonuses for that role, and when you indicate you are done with the tutorial, after doing just one or all 3 roles, up to you (but you get a skillpoint and free gear for each so most people would in theory do all three) you are free to queue for your dungeon, and are gifted a chunk of XP fairly close to your random normal bonus.

You can queue for the tutorial again at any time, but the skill points, gear, and bonus XP are a one time deal (but I'd like there to be a small incentive to repeat it, a small xp, gold, or transmute reward?)
After your account has done the tutorial once, you have the option to skip it for any new characters you make.

This would do nothing against fake tanks and healers queuing up on the wrong role because they don't want to wait, but it could 1) add to the healer and tank population by not automatically queuing all brand new players as dds and 2) actually showing brand new players what is expected of them in a group setting, and some tools to do it.