Dw v 2h

Syiccal

If using no dw abilities 2h seems to offer the best passivs, which makes me wonder why dw is the preferred weapons. Is it really just having 2 enchants ir is there some math I'm missing.

Necrotech_Master

equipping daggers gives +crit chance from the passives, you cant use daggers with 2h

sword, mace, and axe give the same bonus with both 2h and dw

the double enchant is another perk of dw since if you use 2 different enchants they have their own separate cooldown timer

merpins

DW: Two different traits, generally charged and nirnhoned. Two different enchantments, usually fire and poison to get dots on enemies. Daggers give crit chance. These bonuses make Daggers good for both stamina and magicka builds, and very good for hybrid.

2H: If your class doesn't have a good spammable and you're doing a stamina build, Wrecking Blow with its high damage and Major Berserk is a great choice. It's pretty good for Stam Sorc, Stamplar, and Warden if you're not doing a bleed build (if you're doing a bleed build, DW's Flurry, specifically the healing one does bleed damage making it the better spammable choice). It also has two good dots with Cleave and Stampede, though Stampede isn't as good as it used to be with the nerf to Merciless Charge. This is good for stamina builds and hybrid builds that focus stamina, but it doesn't have the same options as dual wield daggers.

Syiccal

Yea I know all the bonus, daggers are more pve than pvp, I'm just saying other than 2 enchants the damage and pen is much the same, but 2h has better pvp pasivs if not using dw abilities imo.

Amerises

DW provides more weapon/spell damage

Personally, I like nirn/sharp or nirn/charged, both maces.

Amerises

1335 x 1.21 for nirn and off hand = 1,615.35
1,571 for 2h damage

Janni

I run both on my build. 2h backbar and DW front. But honestly I'd rather run 2hand front and ice staff on the backbar. It's just that with lag creeping back into the game and the fact that everyone (including me) are almost always moving at speed cap it makes it next to impossible to land a solid wrecking blow or execute. The other problem is that wrecking blow's cast time is a huge tell that experienced players (and players using addons with alerts) will easily see coming and avoid the hit.

Joarik

Amerises wrote: »

1335 x 1.21 for nirn and off hand = 1,615.35
1,571 for 2h damage

My in-game testing doesn't align with that formula. I believe it should be:

DW: 1571 + 0.21 x 1335 = 1851.35
2H: 1571

That makes a difference of 280ish between the two, not accounting for any other percentage bonuses. In game I tested this with five pieces of medium, major brutality, and I find that the difference for swapping from 2H axe (not nirn) to DW axes (main hand nirned) is 364 wpn damage. The added 30% from the medium and brutality exactly explains how a 280 difference becomes 364. (i.e. 280 x 1.3 = 364)

The reason for this formula, from my testing, is that without any passives or nirn traits, DW has the same wpn damage as 2H. There's an unstated amount of extra wpn damage that comes from the off-hand wpn that makes up the difference. I didn't know about this for a number of years until I tried DW and found out by swapping wpns that there was something hidden happening.

Long story short, DW has substantially more wpn damage overall, more than is suggested by the values on the item descriptions in game, DW passive, and running nirn on the main hand.

LittlePinkDot

Syiccal wrote: »

If using no dw abilities 2h seems to offer the best passivs, which makes me wonder why dw is the preferred weapons. Is it really just having 2 enchants is there some math I'm missing.

I think 2h is used more for PvP. The sustain is better. And the skill Rally gives major sorcery/Brutality + heal. Or the other morph Forward momentum gives CC immunity.

For classes that don't have access to a class source of major Brutality/Sorcery, the skill momentum might be mandatory for some people.
I don't like using potions. And I don't like that Mages skill line skill Degeneration because it's not something I want to use in a burst combo.

SandandStars

DW Spin to Win is the easiest effective skill to land in PvP, imo. So much so that I can’t enjoy using it.

Any build that gets me mashing a single button repeatedly feels… unsatisfying.

Weckless

Its all the 6% offhand damage and 2 traits and glyphs. Ppl with dw will have more spell damage and ppl with 2h usually have slightly more pen bc they usually use sharpened

StaticWave

DW is superior because of several reasons:

1) Can run Charged off-hand, which is arguably the best trait for PvP because of how strong status effects are, while also retaining some weapon damage with Nirn main-hand

2) Faster heavy attack animation, which helps restore resources quicker

3) Can slot 2 enchants for extra status effects

4) Has access to Quick Cloak, arguably one of the best abilities for PvP because of Major Evasion, which is needed against AoE ultimates, and Major Expedition, which is needed to run away from a hard fight. The AoE DoT is a nice bonus for some AoE pressure.

2H is only useful for Rally, Executioner, and Brawler if using Master 2H. The sustain passive only activates after you've killed someone, which can be difficult if you're fighting a competent player or someone tanky. Sustain is also easy to get in this meta, so it's not really needed. The 10% extra damage passive only applies to the next direct damage ability, and it requires fully charging a heavy attack, which has a much slower animation than DW's. The cleave passive for light/heavy attacks can be useful though.

2H is only ever run by players who are either lacking a class spammable (Stamsorc, stamden, stamcro), lacking a burst heal (stamsorc), or in a cleave build (Corrosive DK with Convergence and Master 2H). I could even argue that Arterial Burst/Blood4blood are a better spammable than Dizzy/Wrecking Blow, so realistically you only use 2H for Rally and Master 2H

gariondavey

StaticWave wrote: »

DW is superior because of several reasons:

1) Can run Charged off-hand, which is arguably the best trait for PvP because of how strong status effects are, while also retaining some weapon damage with Nirn main-hand

2) Faster heavy attack animation, which helps restore resources quicker

3) Can slot 2 enchants for extra status effects

4) Has access to Quick Cloak, arguably one of the best abilities for PvP because of Major Evasion, which is needed against AoE ultimates, and Major Expedition, which is needed to run away from a hard fight. The AoE DoT is a nice bonus for some AoE pressure.

2H is only useful for Rally, Executioner, and Brawler if using Master 2H. The sustain passive only activates after you've killed someone, which can be difficult if you're fighting a competent player or someone tanky. Sustain is also easy to get in this meta, so it's not really needed. The 10% extra damage passive only applies to the next direct damage ability, and it requires fully charging a heavy attack, which has a much slower animation than DW's. The cleave passive for light/heavy attacks can be useful though.

2H is only ever run by players who are either lacking a class spammable (Stamsorc, stamden, stamcro), lacking a burst heal (stamsorc), or in a cleave build (Corrosive DK with Convergence and Master 2H). I could even argue that Arterial Burst/Blood4blood are a better spammable than Dizzy/Wrecking Blow, so realistically you only use 2H for Rally and Master 2H

Heavy attacks are now universal in speed I believe

Weckless

gariondavey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

DW is superior because of several reasons:

1) Can run Charged off-hand, which is arguably the best trait for PvP because of how strong status effects are, while also retaining some weapon damage with Nirn main-hand

2) Faster heavy attack animation, which helps restore resources quicker

3) Can slot 2 enchants for extra status effects

4) Has access to Quick Cloak, arguably one of the best abilities for PvP because of Major Evasion, which is needed against AoE ultimates, and Major Expedition, which is needed to run away from a hard fight. The AoE DoT is a nice bonus for some AoE pressure.

2H is only useful for Rally, Executioner, and Brawler if using Master 2H. The sustain passive only activates after you've killed someone, which can be difficult if you're fighting a competent player or someone tanky. Sustain is also easy to get in this meta, so it's not really needed. The 10% extra damage passive only applies to the next direct damage ability, and it requires fully charging a heavy attack, which has a much slower animation than DW's. The cleave passive for light/heavy attacks can be useful though.

2H is only ever run by players who are either lacking a class spammable (Stamsorc, stamden, stamcro), lacking a burst heal (stamsorc), or in a cleave build (Corrosive DK with Convergence and Master 2H). I could even argue that Arterial Burst/Blood4blood are a better spammable than Dizzy/Wrecking Blow, so realistically you only use 2H for Rally and Master 2H

Heavy attacks are now universal in speed I believe

Nah they just standardized the damage relative to the duration of the heavy attack so they all do roughly the same dps

gariondavey

@Weckless in 2nd most recent patch or maybe 3rd, I thought they made them all the same speed

Weckless

gariondavey wrote: »

@Weckless in 2nd most recent patch or maybe 3rd, I thought they made them all the same speed

They just reduced inferno heavy attacks to be the same length as 2h heavy attacks and restore the same amount of resources. Dw heavies are still faster and restore less resources

AndreNoir

Syiccal wrote: »

why dw is the preferred weapons.

Because of brainless AoE (so undodgeable) execute that shouldnt exist at all balance-wise. Everything else is negligible