High elf vs dark elf for stamina Arcanist?

Nyseto

I’m seeing many guides recommending high elf instead due to the 5% damage reduction while channeling. Does the extra 2k magicka passive increase spell damage only or also magic damage since Fatecarver is magic damage?

Also, why would deadly strike inferno staff be more dps than maelstrom on the back bar given that deadly daggers and jewelry are already on the front?

Soarora

I don’t know about race but in terms of deadly; maelstrom doesn’t do a whole lot of damage now and if you have deadly on both bars then your backbar DoTs (if there are any) also get buffed.

ArchMikem

Magic damage is Spell Damage, it's just non elemental damage, but still falls under Spell.

Nyseto

ArchMikem wrote: »

Magic damage is Spell Damage, it's just non elemental damage, but still falls under Spell.

Wait, I thought spell damage was like casting an actual spell. Why are magic and spell damage two different things then?

Dr_Con

Nyseto wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Magic damage is Spell Damage, it's just non elemental damage, but still falls under Spell.

Wait, I thought spell damage was like casting an actual spell. Why are magic and spell damage two different things then?

because each spell you cast does a different type of damage

tsaescishoeshiner

Your stats scale with your Max Stam OR Max Mag, depending on which is higher. Same with your Weapon Damage OR Spell Damage.

So the 2k Max Magicka from altmer will buff your damage if your magicka is higher than stamina, but it won't if your Max Stamina is higher. If you want to play stam, you probably want higher Max Stamina, so dunmer would deal more damage. You could try a stam arcanist with higher max mag—at least you get some stam recovery from the altmer passive in that case.

It doesn't matter whether a skill deals Magic Damage, Physical Damage, Bleed, Frost, Flame, whatever. They scale with your highest stat.

But the difference of 2k Max Mag won't be hugenormous, so if you really want to play an altmer stam arcanist, go for it.

Nyseto

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Your stats scale with your Max Stam OR Max Mag, depending on which is higher. Same with your Weapon Damage OR Spell Damage.

So the 2k Max Magicka from altmer will buff your damage if your magicka is higher than stamina, but it won't if your Max Stamina is higher. If you want to play stam, you probably want higher Max Stamina, so dunmer would deal more damage. You could try a stam arcanist with higher max mag—at least you get some stam recovery from the altmer passive in that case.

It doesn't matter whether a skill deals Magic Damage, Physical Damage, Bleed, Frost, Flame, whatever. They scale with your highest stat.

But the difference of 2k Max Mag won't be hugenormous, so if you really want to play an altmer stam arcanist, go for it.

I see, I got it now.

What if I did magicka Arcanist then, that way I get max magicka where I can benefit from its 2k max magicka passive and the 5% damage reduction while channeling? Wouldn’t that be better than Dunmer stamina Arcanist in that case?

Hack the Minotaur Arcanist guide says that high elf is best race for Arcanist whether stamina or magicka, hmmm

Jestir

high elf gets damage reduction when channeling so it pairs well with fate carver, that's probably why it's recommended by him, as most of his builds are for solo players

Nyseto

Bleakz wrote: »

high elf gets damage reduction when channeling so it pairs well with fate carver, that's probably why it's recommended by him, as most of his builds are for solo players

Right but don’t you lose dps given that high elf doesn’t have max stamina bonus like dark elf if playing as stamina Arcanist?

LunaFlora

bosmer

Jestir

Nyseto wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

high elf gets damage reduction when channeling so it pairs well with fate carver, that's probably why it's recommended by him, as most of his builds are for solo players

Right but don’t you lose dps given that high elf doesn’t have max stamina bonus like dark elf if playing as stamina Arcanist?

2k stamina is nice but not a complete game changer, the classes are with a few % of each other and again hack is more focused on newer/solo players and the sustain/mitigation passive are far more valuable to them then 2k stamina

WrathOfInnos

Dunmer is currently best. Players were using Altmer in early PTS and stacking magicka before anyone realized that Cephaliarch's Flail was better than Runeblades. Any build using a Stamina spammable will lean toward stacking max stamina for sustain reasons, but this was exacerbated by the following change.

Fulminating Rune was made to cost the lower resource pool. This destroyed the possibility of sustaining a stamina pool on a magicka build (with Flail, Rune, Barbed Trap, Deadly Cloak, and sometimes Hail/Inject or Stampede/Carve. Even with Altmer's off-stat recovery bonus it is not reasonable to bring that many stamina skills into any content that requires additional dodging or blocking. Instead Dunmer with max stamina became the better option.

Also you mentioned Inferno Staff. I believe that is a poor weapon choice for Arcanist because nearly all if their skills are AoE. Dual wield is best, with bow being a ranged option. Lightning staff also has potential, but needs more testing.

Nyseto

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dunmer is currently best. Players were using Altmer in early PTS and stacking magicka before anyone realized that Cephaliarch's Flail was better than Runeblades. Any build using a Stamina spammable will lean toward stacking max stamina for sustain reasons, but this was exacerbated by the following change.

Fulminating Rune was made to cost the lower resource pool. This destroyed the possibility of sustaining a stamina pool on a magicka build (with Flail, Rune, Barbed Trap, Deadly Cloak, and sometimes Hail/Inject or Stampede/Carve. Even with Altmer's off-stat recovery bonus it is not reasonable to bring that many stamina skills into any content that requires additional dodging or blocking. Instead Dunmer with max stamina became the better option.

Also you mentioned Inferno Staff. I believe that is a poor weapon choice for Arcanist because nearly all if their skills are AoE. Dual wield is best, with bow being a ranged option. Lightning staff also has potential, but needs more testing.

Could you elaborate on the last part regarding dual wield over inferno staff? Are you referring to black rose daggers? And regarding Arcanist having nearly of its skills AoE, isn’t wall of elements good because it’s also AoE? What exactly do you mean by inferno being a poor weapon choice?

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, sa it deals with asking the community about character mechanics.

Thank you for your understanding

Turtle_Bot

Nyseto wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Magic damage is Spell Damage, it's just non elemental damage, but still falls under Spell.

Wait, I thought spell damage was like casting an actual spell. Why are magic and spell damage two different things then?

To clarify this point, spell damage essentially weapon damage but used to calculate the damage magical attacks will deal. Magic damage itself is a type of damage. The other types of magical attacks are the elemental damage types (flame, shock, frost).

Important to note though, with hybridization there's almost no difference between building up spell damage or weapon damage as all abilities will use which ever is the highest value no matter if they cost mag or stam. The same is also true for max magicka/max stamina. Your abilities will scale of whichever is higher of the 2. Also, thanks to the rework done to the damage formula a few years ago, max stats don't make a huge difference to damage values (at least nowhere near as much as increasing max weapon/spell damage does), so the loss of 2k max stamina is barely noticeable and well worth it to get a free 5% damage reduction when using your main dps ability, especially since both races get the same raw weapon/spell damage bonus and the same maximum magicka bonus as well. High elf also gets a small sustain boost that helps offset the slight sustain loss from the slightly lower maximum stamina.

WrathOfInnos

Nyseto wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dunmer is currently best. Players were using Altmer in early PTS and stacking magicka before anyone realized that Cephaliarch's Flail was better than Runeblades. Any build using a Stamina spammable will lean toward stacking max stamina for sustain reasons, but this was exacerbated by the following change.

Fulminating Rune was made to cost the lower resource pool. This destroyed the possibility of sustaining a stamina pool on a magicka build (with Flail, Rune, Barbed Trap, Deadly Cloak, and sometimes Hail/Inject or Stampede/Carve. Even with Altmer's off-stat recovery bonus it is not reasonable to bring that many stamina skills into any content that requires additional dodging or blocking. Instead Dunmer with max stamina became the better option.

Also you mentioned Inferno Staff. I believe that is a poor weapon choice for Arcanist because nearly all if their skills are AoE. Dual wield is best, with bow being a ranged option. Lightning staff also has potential, but needs more testing.

Could you elaborate on the last part regarding dual wield over inferno staff? Are you referring to black rose daggers? And regarding Arcanist having nearly of its skills AoE, isn’t wall of elements good because it’s also AoE? What exactly do you mean by inferno being a poor weapon choice?

I mean that few of your abilities get the 10% increase that Inferno staff brings with the Ancient Knowledge passive. For some encounters it is worth having a back bar Inferno just to cast wall/blackade, but don't linger there. I don't believe Arcanist should ever do front bar Inferno, since AFAIK even their Beam and Flail are not considered single target damage.

Nyseto

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Nyseto wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dunmer is currently best. Players were using Altmer in early PTS and stacking magicka before anyone realized that Cephaliarch's Flail was better than Runeblades. Any build using a Stamina spammable will lean toward stacking max stamina for sustain reasons, but this was exacerbated by the following change.

Fulminating Rune was made to cost the lower resource pool. This destroyed the possibility of sustaining a stamina pool on a magicka build (with Flail, Rune, Barbed Trap, Deadly Cloak, and sometimes Hail/Inject or Stampede/Carve. Even with Altmer's off-stat recovery bonus it is not reasonable to bring that many stamina skills into any content that requires additional dodging or blocking. Instead Dunmer with max stamina became the better option.

Also you mentioned Inferno Staff. I believe that is a poor weapon choice for Arcanist because nearly all if their skills are AoE. Dual wield is best, with bow being a ranged option. Lightning staff also has potential, but needs more testing.

Could you elaborate on the last part regarding dual wield over inferno staff? Are you referring to black rose daggers? And regarding Arcanist having nearly of its skills AoE, isn’t wall of elements good because it’s also AoE? What exactly do you mean by inferno being a poor weapon choice?

I mean that few of your abilities get the 10% increase that Inferno staff brings with the Ancient Knowledge passive. For some encounters it is worth having a back bar Inferno just to cast wall/blackade, but don't linger there. I don't believe Arcanist should ever do front bar Inferno, since AFAIK even their Beam and Flail are not considered single target damage.

Ok I see what you’re saying. I was gonna say that inferno on back bar for blockade is super temporary despite the ancient knowledge passive, you’re already going to switch after one or two seconds. Do you have a better suggestion for back bar then? The other thing about inferno staff on back bar is elemental susceptibility which pairs very well with the Arcanist passive, psychic lesion.

WrathOfInnos

Nyseto wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Nyseto wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dunmer is currently best. Players were using Altmer in early PTS and stacking magicka before anyone realized that Cephaliarch's Flail was better than Runeblades. Any build using a Stamina spammable will lean toward stacking max stamina for sustain reasons, but this was exacerbated by the following change.

Fulminating Rune was made to cost the lower resource pool. This destroyed the possibility of sustaining a stamina pool on a magicka build (with Flail, Rune, Barbed Trap, Deadly Cloak, and sometimes Hail/Inject or Stampede/Carve. Even with Altmer's off-stat recovery bonus it is not reasonable to bring that many stamina skills into any content that requires additional dodging or blocking. Instead Dunmer with max stamina became the better option.

Also you mentioned Inferno Staff. I believe that is a poor weapon choice for Arcanist because nearly all if their skills are AoE. Dual wield is best, with bow being a ranged option. Lightning staff also has potential, but needs more testing.

Could you elaborate on the last part regarding dual wield over inferno staff? Are you referring to black rose daggers? And regarding Arcanist having nearly of its skills AoE, isn’t wall of elements good because it’s also AoE? What exactly do you mean by inferno being a poor weapon choice?

I mean that few of your abilities get the 10% increase that Inferno staff brings with the Ancient Knowledge passive. For some encounters it is worth having a back bar Inferno just to cast wall/blackade, but don't linger there. I don't believe Arcanist should ever do front bar Inferno, since AFAIK even their Beam and Flail are not considered single target damage.

Ok I see what you’re saying. I was gonna say that inferno on back bar for blockade is super temporary despite the ancient knowledge passive, you’re already going to switch after one or two seconds. Do you have a better suggestion for back bar then? The other thing about inferno staff on back bar is elemental susceptibility which pairs very well with the Arcanist passive, psychic lesion.

I've been liking bow back bar with Endless Hail, but it depends on stamina sustain and has a smaller area. Some still prefer 2h with stampede and carve. I agree that Inferno back bar is good for Blockade if you have to cleave adds and get Encratis + Engulfing debuffs, just would avoid using inferno on the front bar with Fatecarver.

Nyseto

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Nyseto wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Nyseto wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dunmer is currently best. Players were using Altmer in early PTS and stacking magicka before anyone realized that Cephaliarch's Flail was better than Runeblades. Any build using a Stamina spammable will lean toward stacking max stamina for sustain reasons, but this was exacerbated by the following change.

Fulminating Rune was made to cost the lower resource pool. This destroyed the possibility of sustaining a stamina pool on a magicka build (with Flail, Rune, Barbed Trap, Deadly Cloak, and sometimes Hail/Inject or Stampede/Carve. Even with Altmer's off-stat recovery bonus it is not reasonable to bring that many stamina skills into any content that requires additional dodging or blocking. Instead Dunmer with max stamina became the better option.

Also you mentioned Inferno Staff. I believe that is a poor weapon choice for Arcanist because nearly all if their skills are AoE. Dual wield is best, with bow being a ranged option. Lightning staff also has potential, but needs more testing.

Could you elaborate on the last part regarding dual wield over inferno staff? Are you referring to black rose daggers? And regarding Arcanist having nearly of its skills AoE, isn’t wall of elements good because it’s also AoE? What exactly do you mean by inferno being a poor weapon choice?

I mean that few of your abilities get the 10% increase that Inferno staff brings with the Ancient Knowledge passive. For some encounters it is worth having a back bar Inferno just to cast wall/blackade, but don't linger there. I don't believe Arcanist should ever do front bar Inferno, since AFAIK even their Beam and Flail are not considered single target damage.

Ok I see what you’re saying. I was gonna say that inferno on back bar for blockade is super temporary despite the ancient knowledge passive, you’re already going to switch after one or two seconds. Do you have a better suggestion for back bar then? The other thing about inferno staff on back bar is elemental susceptibility which pairs very well with the Arcanist passive, psychic lesion.

I've been liking bow back bar with Endless Hail, but it depends on stamina sustain and has a smaller area. Some still prefer 2h with stampede and carve. I agree that Inferno back bar is good for Blockade if you have to cleave adds and get Encratis + Engulfing debuffs, just would avoid using inferno on the front bar with Fatecarver.

Yeah no, I wouldn’t front bar inferno. Going to front bath deadly strike daggers instead

ADarklore

With Arcanist, due to resource management, I've found it much easier to go 6x Light armor and 1x Medium while spec'd into all Stamina, this works the same for either Staff or melee weapon builds. I get the full benefit of penetration and crit chance, while being able to use all the magicka abilities yet have the damage abilities cost stamina. With High Elf, you not only get the damage reduction while channeling, but you also get the resource return as well. The increase in magicka also helps fuel the defensive/utility skills from Arcanist. I've run both Lightning staff and DW daggers with success on PTS and didn't have any resource problems with either using the above setup.

I had originally planned to go Dark Elf, but I feel the 'fire damage resist' is a waste, just for an extra 1900 Stam? Not when I can get so much more with High Elf.

Nyseto

ADarklore wrote: »

With Arcanist, due to resource management, I've found it much easier to go 6x Light armor and 1x Medium while spec'd into all Stamina, this works the same for either Staff or melee weapon builds. I get the full benefit of penetration and crit chance, while being able to use all the magicka abilities yet have the damage abilities cost stamina. With High Elf, you not only get the damage reduction while channeling, but you also get the resource return as well. The increase in magicka also helps fuel the defensive/utility skills from Arcanist. I've run both Lightning staff and DW daggers with success on PTS and didn't have any resource problems with either using the above setup.

I had originally planned to go Dark Elf, but I feel the 'fire damage resist' is a waste, just for an extra 1900 Stam? Not when I can get so much more with High Elf.

What armor set?

The build I was looking at was with 5x Ansul’s Torment, but it’s medium.

tenryuta

pick your fave race, im altmer 92%... or did i finally delete my dunmer<_<. i can atleast make H.E. look like fantasy elves, and also the height<_<

ADarklore

Nyseto wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

With Arcanist, due to resource management, I've found it much easier to go 6x Light armor and 1x Medium while spec'd into all Stamina, this works the same for either Staff or melee weapon builds. I get the full benefit of penetration and crit chance, while being able to use all the magicka abilities yet have the damage abilities cost stamina. With High Elf, you not only get the damage reduction while channeling, but you also get the resource return as well. The increase in magicka also helps fuel the defensive/utility skills from Arcanist. I've run both Lightning staff and DW daggers with success on PTS and didn't have any resource problems with either using the above setup.

I had originally planned to go Dark Elf, but I feel the 'fire damage resist' is a waste, just for an extra 1900 Stam? Not when I can get so much more with High Elf.

What armor set?

The build I was looking at was with 5x Ansul’s Torment, but it’s medium.

On PTS I was running Order's Wrath and Telvanni Efficiency, since I always run with Companions.

Zodiarkslayer

For DPS in Trials: Dark Elf.... But....

I think Khajiit will be the best race for Stamina Arcanists in any PvE content outside of organised Trials.
You can almost reach crit cap without group support and the additional sustain in combination with the balanced stats lean themselves heavily towards what I like to see as the inevitable hybrid playstyle of all Arcanists.

Oakensoul builds will be especially crazy for what little skill they demand of the player. All you need for damage in this class is Fatecarver, Flail, Rune and the Eye.

YandereGirlfriend

Of these choices, High Elf is clearly the way to go.

You get to make use of its channeling passive and the off-stat return passive is low-key amazing on High Elves as well.

ACamaroGuy

Nyseto wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

high elf gets damage reduction when channeling so it pairs well with fate carver, that's probably why it's recommended by him, as most of his builds are for solo players

Right but don’t you lose dps given that high elf doesn’t have max stamina bonus like dark elf if playing as stamina Arcanist?

2k Magicka equates to about 200 damage. It's not much at all.

Sugram22

from what i have learned from videos i would say Dunmer is good with both magica and stamina, max magica bonus almost same and both have same weapon and spell damage passive - the channeling protection, Dunmer is more flexible so u can change between magica and stamina build without penalty, by penalty i mean with some races ur damage is bit lower with either magica or stamina

Nerouyn

Nyseto wrote: »

Wait, I thought spell damage was like casting an actual spell. Why are magic and spell damage two different things then?

It's an old division dating way back with separate "spell" and "weapon" damage stats.

Originally, i.e. before the introduction of stamina morphs, it kind of made sense and was intended for balance purposes. You could either go all in on one or the other stat and have more powerful magic or weapon (but not staff - that was understandably treated as magic) abilities or you could mix stats and be middle road on everything.

After the introduction of stamina morphs which essentially created spells which consume stamina (bonkers) conceptually the division makes much less sense.

As others have pointed out, "magic" as a generic damage type alongside fire, frost etc. is a separate division.