Dungeon Speed Runs

Ulvich · May 2023

Why? Is this a real necessity?
Today I logged into my second account and queued for the daily nrd. Keep in mind that this character is level 32 with no CP. When I appeared in the dungeon I noticed that the group was really far ahead, so I figured I must have replaced someone. As I tried to catch up to the group I soon realized that this was another one of those "speed runs", and the group was just skipping most of the trash. So in order for me to even gain any ground I had to fight my way through what they skipped, thus slowing me down that much more. By the time I did catch up I had died three times along with another player. After that last fight the tank and healer both mounted up and rode on even further ahead. Obvious I wasn't able to keep up with that, not with them having maxed riding skills.
I did ask why they wouldn't slow down, but no one answered. In the end I just ported out and ate the penalty. No point in even trying to catch up now.
There is just so much wrong with groups like this. Dungeons are developed as a group activity, but if they feel the need to solo it then I suggest they go back later and do so.
On my main account I see much lower players daily. And I see them fall behind for whatever reason. And why should I care if the run takes a few extra minutes? I just don't understand why some feel the need to plow through these dungeons. And using mounts only further complicates things. There is no way a player with slower mount can ever keep up with higher level players.
There has got to be something ZM can do to prevent these issues. These speed runs have got to stop.

jaws343 · May 2023

There is something you can do, form your own group with a set of expectations.

Especially in this situation, where you joined their group already in progress. You should be expected to conform to their approach for the dungeon. Which was to not waste time on useless add pulls.

Galiferno · May 2023

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

kargen27 · May 2023

These situations are why I advocate for a dungeon not being done if everything doesn't die. Or maybe 98% of all mobs and 100% of bosses/mini-bosses for those times when one or two enemies get stuck and can't be hit. If a player is going to get rewarded for the content they should do the content.

If you skip three skeletons that hang out in a little enclave because it is five steps out of your way then you don't get credit for finishing the dungeon. And to take care of players chasing weapons drops the last boss shouldn't activate until everything else in the dungeon is dead. It should just have an impervious shield until you get everything else done. If that means running back to the start to kill a few skeever then so be it.

Ulvich · May 2023

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

kargen27 · May 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

There is something you can do, form your own group with a set of expectations.

Especially in this situation, where you joined their group already in progress. You should be expected to conform to their approach for the dungeon. Which was to not waste time on useless add pulls.

Works both ways. Most of the day you can type in guild chat looking to fill group for random speed run and get your group really quick. Much harder to fill a group when you say you have the quest and want to finish entire dungeon.

Sounds like OP didn't join a group in progress. He joined a group where one member didn't wait for others to get ported in and ran ahead past mobs. Often players who do this are partially built on being able to sprint past mobs. Some builds can't do this and fail to keep up. They then have the added annoyance of dealing with all the mobs the speed runner riled up on his way through.
No pull is useless. You gain XP, gold and items from these pulls. For new players or players on new characters these pulls help. Sure if all you want is the end run reward it seems the pulls are useless but they are not. They just aren't part of your desired outcome. Doesn't mean others should have to suffer missing out on their desired outcome.

As I said above a fix for this would be requiring everything die on the way through.

FantasticFreddie · May 2023

kargen27 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There is something you can do, form your own group with a set of expectations.

Especially in this situation, where you joined their group already in progress. You should be expected to conform to their approach for the dungeon. Which was to not waste time on useless add pulls.

Works both ways. Most of the day you can type in guild chat looking to fill group for random speed run and get your group really quick. Much harder to fill a group when you say you have the quest and want to finish entire dungeon.

Sounds like OP didn't join a group in progress. He joined a group where one member didn't wait for others to get ported in and ran ahead past mobs. Often players who do this are partially built on being able to sprint past mobs. Some builds can't do this and fail to keep up. They then have the added annoyance of dealing with all the mobs the speed runner riled up on his way through.
No pull is useless. You gain XP, gold and items from these pulls. For new players or players on new characters these pulls help. Sure if all you want is the end run reward it seems the pulls are useless but they are not. They just aren't part of your desired outcome. Doesn't mean others should have to suffer missing out on their desired outcome.

As I said above a fix for this would be requiring everything die on the way through.

I cannot express to you how much I would not do dungeons if farming gear required me to kill EVERY LAST THING.
Nirn farming was only tolerable because you can skip so much trash.

Necrotech_Master · May 2023

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There is something you can do, form your own group with a set of expectations.

Especially in this situation, where you joined their group already in progress. You should be expected to conform to their approach for the dungeon. Which was to not waste time on useless add pulls.

Works both ways. Most of the day you can type in guild chat looking to fill group for random speed run and get your group really quick. Much harder to fill a group when you say you have the quest and want to finish entire dungeon.

Sounds like OP didn't join a group in progress. He joined a group where one member didn't wait for others to get ported in and ran ahead past mobs. Often players who do this are partially built on being able to sprint past mobs. Some builds can't do this and fail to keep up. They then have the added annoyance of dealing with all the mobs the speed runner riled up on his way through.
No pull is useless. You gain XP, gold and items from these pulls. For new players or players on new characters these pulls help. Sure if all you want is the end run reward it seems the pulls are useless but they are not. They just aren't part of your desired outcome. Doesn't mean others should have to suffer missing out on their desired outcome.

As I said above a fix for this would be requiring everything die on the way through.

I cannot express to you how much I would not do dungeons if farming gear required me to kill EVERY LAST THING.
Nirn farming was only tolerable because you can skip so much trash.

i think they were implying it would be for the random normal bonus, if your just porting in going for drops then could do whatever

kargen27 · May 2023

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There is something you can do, form your own group with a set of expectations.

Especially in this situation, where you joined their group already in progress. You should be expected to conform to their approach for the dungeon. Which was to not waste time on useless add pulls.

Works both ways. Most of the day you can type in guild chat looking to fill group for random speed run and get your group really quick. Much harder to fill a group when you say you have the quest and want to finish entire dungeon.

Sounds like OP didn't join a group in progress. He joined a group where one member didn't wait for others to get ported in and ran ahead past mobs. Often players who do this are partially built on being able to sprint past mobs. Some builds can't do this and fail to keep up. They then have the added annoyance of dealing with all the mobs the speed runner riled up on his way through.
No pull is useless. You gain XP, gold and items from these pulls. For new players or players on new characters these pulls help. Sure if all you want is the end run reward it seems the pulls are useless but they are not. They just aren't part of your desired outcome. Doesn't mean others should have to suffer missing out on their desired outcome.

As I said above a fix for this would be requiring everything die on the way through.

I cannot express to you how much I would not do dungeons if farming gear required me to kill EVERY LAST THING.
Nirn farming was only tolerable because you can skip so much trash.

That's a choice for you to make. You shouldn't be able to force others to skip content. And if you are farming gear you aren't joining the random queue. I could see when not doing the pledge or a random daily allowing a group to skip to final boss. That would to me be a fair compromise.

YetAnotherLinuxUser · May 2023

Queues for daily rn rv speed runs would work. ????

Hoghorn · May 2023

kargen27 wrote: »

These situations are why I advocate for a dungeon not being done if everything doesn't die. Or maybe 98% of all mobs and 100% of bosses/mini-bosses for those times when one or two enemies get stuck and can't be hit. If a player is going to get rewarded for the content they should do the content.

If you skip three skeletons that hang out in a little enclave because it is five steps out of your way then you don't get credit for finishing the dungeon. And to take care of players chasing weapons drops the last boss shouldn't activate until everything else in the dungeon is dead. It should just have an impervious shield until you get everything else done. If that means running back to the start to kill a few skeever then so be it.

i'd never run another dungeon, this is nothing but a punishment fantasy

xNepo · May 2023

Ulvich wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

The faster you finish a task means you can go on to your next objective.

kargen27 · May 2023

Hoghorn wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

These situations are why I advocate for a dungeon not being done if everything doesn't die. Or maybe 98% of all mobs and 100% of bosses/mini-bosses for those times when one or two enemies get stuck and can't be hit. If a player is going to get rewarded for the content they should do the content.

If you skip three skeletons that hang out in a little enclave because it is five steps out of your way then you don't get credit for finishing the dungeon. And to take care of players chasing weapons drops the last boss shouldn't activate until everything else in the dungeon is dead. It should just have an impervious shield until you get everything else done. If that means running back to the start to kill a few skeever then so be it.

i'd never run another dungeon, this is nothing but a punishment fantasy

As I replied to another above, your choice and you are free to make it. You shouldn't be able to force your playstyle on others though. I don't see it as punishment. I see it as playing the game. I skip things in the game I don't enjoy and don't expect to be rewarded for not participating in that content.

Ulvich · May 2023

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

jaws343 wrote: »

There is something you can do, form your own group with a set of expectations.

Especially in this situation, where you joined their group already in progress. You should be expected to conform to their approach for the dungeon. Which was to not waste time on useless add pulls.

xNepo wrote: »

Ulvich wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

The faster you finish a task means you can go on to your next objective.

Understood. But when you leave enough trash in the path and others can't break through it then they are the ones who can't finish at all.

Kusto · May 2023

You can blame the reward system for that. Random normals give one of the best rewards in game while being one of the easiest activities. Makes no sense. 100k xp and 10 transmutes for 5min speed run. But you do vet dlc pledge hard modes and only get 3 lol. Same with trials, WEEKLY coffer only gives 5, but it takes alot longer to do and even longer to get group together, wtf. Battlegrounds, hit and miss, sometimes you get lucky and get few, sometimes nothing. So no wonder everyone's doing dungeons. Endgamers need alot of gear and most are able to easily solo them, even dlc. Zos really needs to rework the rewards so they are more inline with the difficulty and time it takes to get them. For example if random vet gave 20 transmutes I would run them instead.

jaws343 · May 2023

Ulvich wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

jaws343 wrote: »

There is something you can do, form your own group with a set of expectations.

Especially in this situation, where you joined their group already in progress. You should be expected to conform to their approach for the dungeon. Which was to not waste time on useless add pulls.

xNepo wrote: »

Ulvich wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

The faster you finish a task means you can go on to your next objective.

Understood. But when you leave enough trash in the path and others can't break through it then they are the ones who can't finish at all.

Roll dodge...

allochthons · May 2023

Kusto wrote: »

You can blame the reward system for that. Random normals give one of the best rewards in game while being one of the easiest activities. Makes no sense. 100k xp and 10 transmutes for 5min speed run.

Exactly this. I know a few people who run the random normal on 10+ toons EVERY DAY for the transmutes. When you're farming transmutes like that, a speed run is the only way to go.

I HATE this. I think it's terribly selfish, but as Kusto said, it's the way ZOS set the system up, and I can't really fault people for taking advantage of it.

Because of this (and fake tanks and healers) I rarely run random normals any more, and get my transmutes from Cyrodiil campaign tiers. If I want to farm gear, I find a group from one of my guilds.

When I do run a random normal, I always make sure the person in the back is doing OK, and I always either stay in the dungeon (or at least in the group) until they've been able to turn in the quest. I usually also stick around to see if they need any of the gear I picked up, and if they're clearly new, if they have any questions about the dungeon.

This is a very common complaint, and ZOS isn't going to fix it (alas).

kargen27 · May 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

Ulvich wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

jaws343 wrote: »

There is something you can do, form your own group with a set of expectations.

Especially in this situation, where you joined their group already in progress. You should be expected to conform to their approach for the dungeon. Which was to not waste time on useless add pulls.

xNepo wrote: »

Ulvich wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

The faster you finish a task means you can go on to your next objective.

Understood. But when you leave enough trash in the path and others can't break through it then they are the ones who can't finish at all.

Roll dodge...

great advice for a Magicka character. Sprint to mob, roll once and then die. Rinse and repeat. Even better advice for new players on low level characters. No way the roll dodge strategy would ever fail them. Just summersault your way through wave after wave of mobs hoping you have enough soul gems to make it to a boss that is already dead before you can get a hit in.
You wanna do a speed run form a group in zone chat. You end up with a full group in no time at all and they all have the same goal in mind.

ForzaRammer · May 2023

kargen27 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ulvich wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

jaws343 wrote: »

There is something you can do, form your own group with a set of expectations.

Especially in this situation, where you joined their group already in progress. You should be expected to conform to their approach for the dungeon. Which was to not waste time on useless add pulls.

xNepo wrote: »

Ulvich wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

The faster you finish a task means you can go on to your next objective.

Understood. But when you leave enough trash in the path and others can't break through it then they are the ones who can't finish at all.

Roll dodge...

great advice for a Magicka character. Sprint to mob, roll once and then die. Rinse and repeat. Even better advice for new players on low level characters. No way the roll dodge strategy would ever fail them. Just summersault your way through wave after wave of mobs hoping you have enough soul gems to make it to a boss that is already dead before you can get a hit in.
You wanna do a speed run form a group in zone chat. You end up with a full group in no time at all and they all have the same goal in mind.

Are the people who can’t keep up getting kicked, or they are a getting a free ride thus easy xp yet still complaining?

Soarora · May 2023

"Mounted up"... was this COA2 by any chance? It's a really long dungeon most people hate, people try to skip as much as possible. That said, they should have waited for everyone to load in before running.

SithisKhajitiiLamae · May 2023

I had the misfortune of being in a random normal dungeon group where they sped ran the dungeon so fast that by the time i actually got to accepting the quest from the npc and closed the menu,the quest became glitched(it wouldnt advance further) and i had to do the dungeon over again with some people i was in a guild with at the time.

Ulvich · May 2023

Soarora wrote: »

"Mounted up"... was this COA2 by any chance? It's a really long dungeon most people hate, people try to skip as much as possible. That said, they should have waited for everyone to load in before running.

It was FG 1

Ulvich · May 2023

Soarora wrote: »

"Mounted up"... was this COA2 by any chance? It's a really long dungeon most people hate, people try to skip as much as possible. That said, they should have waited for everyone to load in before running.

It might have been CoA now that I think about it.

Kite42 · May 2023

Why did you leave, and not just wait for the activity to complete? FG1 isn't going to take them long, just chill for a minute.

Ulvich · May 2023

Kite42 wrote: »

Why did you leave, and not just wait for the activity to complete? FG1 isn't going to take them long, just chill for a minute.

I made an error in my post. It was CoA, not FG.

disintegr8 · May 2023

Anyone with certain expectations should not be running random groups. That includes those who want to do the quest as well as those who want to speed run them.

In the rare instances I run publics, I wait to see if anyone is doing the quest, but not everyone will. Save yourself the trouble and try and find at least one person you can rely on to run them with.

Ulvich · May 2023

disintegr8 wrote: »

Anyone with certain expectations should not be running random groups. That includes those who want to do the quest as well as those who want to speed run them.

In the rare instances I run publics, I wait to see if anyone is doing the quest, but not everyone will. Save yourself the trouble and try and find at least one person you can rely on to run them with.

One of my biggest expectations is that they could understand English when I ask them to slow down. Apparently that wasn't the case today. Instead they just mounted up and took off. As I mentioned earlier, I came in late and the group was already way ahead. I had to fight my way through the trash they were too lazy to kill when they were there. And being 2000 levels below them with no CP things were not as easy for me as they were for them.

ZOS_Hadeostry · May 2023

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it deals with dungeons.

Thank you for your understanding

joergino · May 2023

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Are the people who can’t keep up getting kicked, or they are a getting a free ride thus easy xp yet still complaining?

They get absolutely nothing if they aren't near the boss when it's killed.

Sarannah · May 2023

kargen27 wrote: »

These situations are why I advocate for a dungeon not being done if everything doesn't die. Or maybe 98% of all mobs and 100% of bosses/mini-bosses for those times when one or two enemies get stuck and can't be hit. If a player is going to get rewarded for the content they should do the content.

If you skip three skeletons that hang out in a little enclave because it is five steps out of your way then you don't get credit for finishing the dungeon. And to take care of players chasing weapons drops the last boss shouldn't activate until everything else in the dungeon is dead. It should just have an impervious shield until you get everything else done. If that means running back to the start to kill a few skeever then so be it.

Agreed with this... dungeons should be run as regular MMO content. Not as a rush activity for 1 out of the 4 players who queued up(and often even fake role). If that prevents rushers from queueing, that is actually a good thing, because they do not care about the other players in the group. Therefor they have no place in an MMO and/or groupsetting.

ZOS needs to start realizing very quickly how much these types of players, rushers/speedrunners/fake roles/etc, are actually harming the game.

Keep in mind, I used to love running dungeons, now I avoid this part of the game as if it is a deadly disease. Which is only making this MMO part of the game even worse, because I am probably not the only one.

kargen27 · May 2023

ForzaRammer wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Ulvich wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

jaws343 wrote: »

There is something you can do, form your own group with a set of expectations.

Especially in this situation, where you joined their group already in progress. You should be expected to conform to their approach for the dungeon. Which was to not waste time on useless add pulls.

xNepo wrote: »

Ulvich wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

I want to get my XP/transmutes/pledge/skill point done, and I usually do it outdpsing the other 2 dps combined as a fake healer. If I'm carrying the entire group, I'm not gonna let them dictate my pace.

So what's the rush?

The faster you finish a task means you can go on to your next objective.

Understood. But when you leave enough trash in the path and others can't break through it then they are the ones who can't finish at all.

Roll dodge...

great advice for a Magicka character. Sprint to mob, roll once and then die. Rinse and repeat. Even better advice for new players on low level characters. No way the roll dodge strategy would ever fail them. Just summersault your way through wave after wave of mobs hoping you have enough soul gems to make it to a boss that is already dead before you can get a hit in.
You wanna do a speed run form a group in zone chat. You end up with a full group in no time at all and they all have the same goal in mind.

Are the people who can’t keep up getting kicked, or they are a getting a free ride thus easy xp yet still complaining?

Players join to participate in the activity not just sprint to the end and hope they might get credit for something they had no real part in. Also might be there for a quest and chasing means skipping content. It isn't a free ride it is more of a hijacking and not everybody is after easy XP.