Luke_Flamesword wrote: »So, I finally tried for first time heavy attack Oakensoul build, because the are a lot of noise because of newest update (which for me personally are just a little adjustments, not serious nerfs). I was avoiding that for long time, because idea of one-bar build sounded too limiting for me, but I had one sorc alt, so I made build for him just to try. And it was like WOW. I didn't know that I wanted it until I played it. Why?
Well, I never liked concept of perfect rotation, where you have calculated every second of every skill. If I like things like this, I would rather just learn to play piano. It does not mean, that I played in complete chaos - I optimised my builds, use right buffs, learn to use my skills smart, in right order, so I made good enough damage. I just gave me some flexibility to react what's going on area and adjust using of skills to situation like you did in PvP. It was enough to play vet dungeons and arenas. I beat vMA couple times, it was not a big problem when you learn mechanics, but it was a bit stressfull and too intensive sometimes, so I don't like it make it more that I have to. With Vateshran there was no big problems with all bossess, until finale. Eh, last phase was always just too much and I gave up, because it was so intensive, that I didn't have a pleasure from it. I play for pleasure, so if something gives me more stress than relax - I don't do it. Also my wife complains that there is too much noise with all these smashing mouse and keyboard buttons.
Yesterday I tried veteran Vateshran with new heavy attack Oaken-sorc and I was shocked how much it changed playing. I actually focused more on enemies and mechanics, than on skillbar, all buffs, timers, skills and crazy clicking to apply them all. It was almost peacefull, but still somehow needed to focus and pay attention, because moment of distraction makes you dead. That was it! That was MEDIUM DIFFICULTY, which I was wished for. Without it, it was like bore to death or smash buttons like crazy. This is the middleground - I get some challenge, I died (how good is to die from time to time!), but when I died, I was feeling that this was 100% my fault, not just being overhelmed by so many things going on. I actually learn more about mechanics in final fight, because I was able to focus on them. In classical build, I was just overhelmed with managing skills, protecting, limited sustain and many mor things. It was just a bit too much. Of course, you can learn all of it, you can learn almost everything if you really want, but there is question if you really want to hate the game, before you will achieve that. In other hand normal was just and boring without almost any challenge at all.
I hated Vateshran, but now I even want to play it again on vet! And I even want to play some more times on Heavy build to feel more confident and then try to beat it with 2-bar build. It was practitally dead content for me and know I want to play and learn more, because everything I wanted it was more steps to learn, not just being thrown from quite easy normal to very stressfull veteran.
I know that some players hate these builds and thinks that this is not fair for these who achieved things harder way. You must consider that this is not Olympics, but only a game for fun and pleasure and there are many people who for many reason are not capable to achieve higher levels of perfect combat. They shouldn't be excluded only because some other wants to feel more special with their achievements.
ZOS - thx that you are trying to raise floor without increasing power creep, this is good direction for all of us (especially considering PUGs) and only thing that hurts is only some peoples ego's, which is not something we should worry too much. It should be fun for all of us and as long as normal builds gives opportunity to make bit higher dps, it will be fair, because the best ones still will best ones, but at the same others won't so much behind them. I think that's best direction on combat balance.
PS. Pls, don't overnerf Velothi mythic, maybe just redesign it, if it was too strong in some scenarios? It should have to give more potential power than Oakensouls (because it will be harder to manage 2 bars) but of course still not overperforming.
Luke_Flamesword wrote: »So, I finally tried for first time heavy attack Oakensoul build, because the are a lot of noise because of newest update (which for me personally are just a little adjustments, not serious nerfs). I was avoiding that for long time, because idea of one-bar build sounded too limiting for me, but I had one sorc alt, so I made build for him just to try. And it was like WOW. I didn't know that I wanted it until I played it. Why?
Well, I never liked concept of perfect rotation, where you have calculated every second of every skill. If I like things like this, I would rather just learn to play piano. It does not mean, that I played in complete chaos - I optimised my builds, use right buffs, learn to use my skills smart, in right order, so I made good enough damage. I just gave me some flexibility to react what's going on area and adjust using of skills to situation like you did in PvP. It was enough to play vet dungeons and arenas. I beat vMA couple times, it was not a big problem when you learn mechanics, but it was a bit stressfull and too intensive sometimes, so I don't like it make it more that I have to. With Vateshran there was no big problems with all bossess, until finale. Eh, last phase was always just too much and I gave up, because it was so intensive, that I didn't have a pleasure from it. I play for pleasure, so if something gives me more stress than relax - I don't do it. Also my wife complains that there is too much noise with all these smashing mouse and keyboard buttons.
Yesterday I tried veteran Vateshran with new heavy attack Oaken-sorc and I was shocked how much it changed playing. I actually focused more on enemies and mechanics, than on skillbar, all buffs, timers, skills and crazy clicking to apply them all. It was almost peacefull, but still somehow needed to focus and pay attention, because moment of distraction makes you dead. That was it! That was MEDIUM DIFFICULTY, which I was wished for. Without it, it was like bore to death or smash buttons like crazy. This is the middleground - I get some challenge, I died (how good is to die from time to time!), but when I died, I was feeling that this was 100% my fault, not just being overhelmed by so many things going on. I actually learn more about mechanics in final fight, because I was able to focus on them. In classical build, I was just overhelmed with managing skills, protecting, limited sustain and many mor things. It was just a bit too much. Of course, you can learn all of it, you can learn almost everything if you really want, but there is question if you really want to hate the game, before you will achieve that. In other hand normal was just and boring without almost any challenge at all.
I hated Vateshran, but now I even want to play it again on vet! And I even want to play some more times on Heavy build to feel more confident and then try to beat it with 2-bar build. It was practitally dead content for me and know I want to play and learn more, because everything I wanted it was more steps to learn, not just being thrown from quite easy normal to very stressfull veteran.
I know that some players hate these builds and thinks that this is not fair for these who achieved things harder way. You must consider that this is not Olympics, but only a game for fun and pleasure and there are many people who for many reason are not capable to achieve higher levels of perfect combat. They shouldn't be excluded only because some other wants to feel more special with their achievements.
ZOS - thx that you are trying to raise floor without increasing power creep, this is good direction for all of us (especially considering PUGs) and only thing that hurts is only some peoples ego's, which is not something we should worry too much. It should be fun for all of us and as long as normal builds gives opportunity to make bit higher dps, it will be fair, because the best ones still will best ones, but at the same others won't so much behind them. I think that's best direction on combat balance.
PS. Pls, don't overnerf Velothi mythic, maybe just redesign it, if it was too strong in some scenarios? It should have to give more potential power than Oakensouls (because it will be harder to manage 2 bars) but of course still not overperforming.
Apparently, the fun will decrease because Zenimax will nerf this build. Best HA players are already worse then Best LA players, but they need to be even worse.
For all those who only use HA but are not as good as others.... well.... I'm sorry for you all. The fun will end soon!
They only nerfed it 5%. Why spread false information and negativity in every thread.
And there is no best ha players as EVERYONE can hold down button and get 80k. But how many players can actually get 80k with 2 bar builds? Not even half the playerbase, not even close. We need to stop comparing the "best" HA vs the best LA players because the latter is only small minority.
I wouldn't care if they removed Empower totally.... And no, I don't use HA builds. I despise the HA play style. I love my 1bar Oak build with class skills and weapon spammable.
Of course, i don't do group content. So (as per usual) I'm an outlier....
I wouldn't care if they removed Empower totally.... And no, I don't use HA builds. I despise the HA play style. I love my 1bar Oak build with class skills and weapon spammable.
Of course, i don't do group content. So (as per usual) I'm an outlier....
So you wouldn't care if they removed something that YOU don't use anyway, who cares about other players right?!?
tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Glad you liked it! I personally really like not having to keeps buffs up because I find it a very bland part of rotations.
I've also really liked heavy attack Oakensoul on Necromancer because you're very tanky with Spirit Guardian and get to throw blastbones at people. You also get more heavy attack crits.
Warden also has good AoE and healing for it with Fissure and Living Trellis, plus some bonus critical damage and passive DPS from bear.
Nightblade ran into some barspace issues for me. Haven't tried Templar or DK!
There are great players who know how to use HA. These players don't just press one button, but use skills effectively. Therefore, they are better than all others who only press one button. Is there any doubt about this?"...there is no best ha players as EVERYONE can hold down button and get 80k...."
What are you saying? Just because many players have poor rotation skills, should HA be nerfed to be worse than players with bad rotation? Are you suggesting that players who are bad at rotation should still be better than those who switch to HA to improve their gameplay? Should HA be made worse than everyone with bad rotation skills?But how many players can actually get 80k with 2 bar builds? Not even half the playerbase, not even close. We need to stop comparing the "best" HA vs the best LA players because the latter is only small minority.
But this the EXACT reason for which ZOS creates Oakensoul and made HA builds viable! That's the problem which splits players too much and HA builds are the solution to this problem. That was the point from beginning to give all players which are unable to get 80k in normal builds, alternative which will raise them higher. ZOS talks a lot about raising the floor from many updates, so this is their goal in balancing game - not preserving old balance. Floor is raised a lot, but ceiling is the same - this is probably most succesfull change in this area.But how many players can actually get 80k with 2 bar builds? Not even half the playerbase, not even close
Veteran player here.
Keep oaken alive. I'm literally soloing veteran hardmode dungeons with one hand, and eating icecream with my other hand.
There are great players who know how to use HA. These players don't just press one button, but use skills effectively. Therefore, they are better than all others who only press one button. Is there any doubt about this?"...there is no best ha players as EVERYONE can hold down button and get 80k...."What are you saying? Just because many players have poor rotation skills, should HA be nerfed to be worse than players with bad rotation? Are you suggesting that players who are bad at rotation should still be better than those who switch to HA to improve their gameplay? Should HA be made worse than everyone with bad rotation skills?But how many players can actually get 80k with 2 bar builds? Not even half the playerbase, not even close. We need to stop comparing the "best" HA vs the best LA players because the latter is only small minority.
Luke_Flamesword wrote: »But this the EXACT reason for which ZOS creates Oakensoul and made HA builds viable! That's the problem which splits players too much and HA builds are the solution to this problem. That was the point from beginning to give all players which are unable to get 80k in normal builds, alternative which will raise them higher. ZOS talks a lot about raising the floor from many updates, so this is their goal in balancing game - not preserving old balance. Floor is raised a lot, but ceiling is the same - this is probably most succesfull change in this area.But how many players can actually get 80k with 2 bar builds? Not even half the playerbase, not even close
But I agree that current nerf is just little balance adjustment and won't be end of this builds, so panic is not needed - their are still fine in current PTS. I just hope that this way of playing will survive future updates