Simple way to increase class distinctiveness

richo262

Class trees (and guild trees) exist to allow a skill to be used by bypassing an item requirement. Ie DK Whip can be used no matter the weapon, Snipe can only be used with a bow.

Why not remove Whip from the tool kit and update the spammable of each weapon tree to have a morph akin the a DK. The Mag whip essentially becomes a morph or Destructive touch and the physical weapons get a molten rock themed skill (not poop shot) that also benefits from Seething flame or Stagger which seems to be the unique attribute of the DK tool kit spammables.

That way this weird attempt at trying to figure out what whip should be, what it should cost, which DPS should use it every patch can end.

There are many skills like this that could over rule 'standard skills' for instance the Sorcerer has a unique shield, the unique attributes of this shield should just over rule Light, Med and Heavy in their own unique way. The arcanist also has a shield that looks really cool, would be a shame if it ends up inferior to the generic Light armor skill and people use that instead.

Could probably end up close to losing a tree from every class, but having many more unique skills in each tree specific to each class.

I could see the DK just getting Molten Fists as the dual wield spammable where his hands turns to rocks and just belts the crap out of the enemy causing stagger. Same or similar base function, different animation, unique property (stagger).

Obviously need some consideration for passives extending to Class specific unique skills in weapon trees.

Amottica

Things do not need to be that complicated.

If Zenimax wanted to give classes more unique flavor they could make the skills that come from each weapon unique per each class. It would take a lot of effort to redesign each weapon for each class but it would be a very straight forward change. Still a lot of work.

After that, we would have more unique skills per class leaving only the guild skill lines that are the same across all classes.

TaSheen

Way too complex. Things are fine the way they are, no need to reinvent the wheel.

Amottica wrote: »

If Zenimax wanted to give classes more unique flavor they could make the skills that come from each weapon unique per each class. It would take a lot of effort to redesign each weapon for each class but it would be a very straight forward change. Still a lot of work.

I like that idea though - but I'm betting at this stage of the game's lifetime, it's not going to happen.

richo262

TaSheen wrote: »

Way too complex. Things are fine the way they are, no need to reinvent the wheel.

Amottica wrote: »

If Zenimax wanted to give classes more unique flavor they could make the skills that come from each weapon unique per each class. It would take a lot of effort to redesign each weapon for each class but it would be a very straight forward change. Still a lot of work.

I like that idea though - but I'm betting at this stage of the game's lifetime, it's not going to happen.

You just disagreed and agreed to the same thing, at the same time.

TybaltKaine

Honestly, just let us pick one tree from each class until we hit three, and they can't overlap. Everything is being homogenized anyway, so just let us go full Skyrim and pick what we want.

Wanna play a stealthy ice mage? Cool. Shadow Tree from NB, Winter's Embrace tree from Warden, and Dark Magic from Sorcerer to tie it all together. Done.

Even better, let us cherry pick 18 skills and 15 passives and go wild. That would be "Play how you want".

All of this is as likely to happen as anything else here. I agree that class identity is broken, but I also think that's the intent.

SilverIce58

TybaltKaine wrote: »

Honestly, just let us pick one tree from each class until we hit three, and they can't overlap. Everything is being homogenized anyway, so just let us go full Skyrim and pick what we want.

Wanna play a stealthy ice mage? Cool. Shadow Tree from NB, Winter's Embrace tree from Warden, and Dark Magic from Sorcerer to tie it all together. Done.

Even better, let us cherry pick 18 skills and 15 passives and go wild. That would be "Play how you want".

All of this is as likely to happen as anything else here. I agree that class identity is broken, but I also think that's the intent.

I actually think this would be the best option down the line when the game starts getting a little older and in need of some big kind of update. I'd love to pick and choose skill lines, it feels very correct and very Elder Scrolls themed.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

OBJnoob

Like others have said... I like some of these ideas, but ultimately think they're too complicated.

I think the game used to have more rock-paper-scissorsy matchups than it does now and this, in pvp, is what helped classes feel unique. This was before every class had a burst heal, every class had speed and evasiveness, every class had a stun and blah blah blah. But with more and more guild skills being introduced yearly now every class can outsource their missing utility and at least semi-effectively counter and combat anyone else.

And I don't really want this reverted, because more options is always a good thing, but I do have a very simple fix to propose.

Make sorcs (for example,) do 10% more damage to DKs (for example.)
Make DKs do 10% more damage to Wardens.
Wardens 10% more to Templars.
Templars 10% more to Arcanist.

Blah blah blah, around the circle, until lastly someone does 10% more to sorcs.

Amottica

TaSheen wrote: »

Way too complex. Things are fine the way they are, no need to reinvent the wheel.

Amottica wrote: »

If Zenimax wanted to give classes more unique flavor they could make the skills that come from each weapon unique per each class. It would take a lot of effort to redesign each weapon for each class but it would be a very straight forward change. Still a lot of work.

I like that idea though - but I'm betting at this stage of the game's lifetime, it's not going to happen.

True. Both Matt and Rich were on the team when they were just starting on the conceptual phase of building this game. This their baby and I do have respect for their core choices.

Treeshka

Classes are already distinctive from each other by the buffs they give to group. However with hybridization you do not need all buffs which renders some of the classes obsolete in some cases.