Please faction-lock the under-level-50 campaign

HumbleThaumaturge

The fact that the under-level-50 campaign is not faction-locked allows players to "exploit" the game.

Recently, I played the under-level-50 campaign on EU PC server for a new, permanent character. I saw some disturbing situations. Implementing an account-wide faction-lock would, perhaps, reduce the occurence of these situations. I have seen these situations also on the North American server.

Examples:
1. Volendrung (the Hammer) spawned behind the EP gate. An AD character swapped to an EP toon and brought the Hammer out to his AD buddies waiting at the gate.
2. AD made an aggressive push to get Emperor for one of their number. After getting Emperor, many changed to EP toons and did another aggressive Emperor push. I saw this back-and-forth multiple times. I know for a fact that guilds organize such Emperor runs for members on the North American server. After getting the Emperor title, most of the faction's players either log-off or swap factions; they do not stick around (with their new Emperor) to retake their scrolls or other keeps.
3. EP was making an Emperor run. 3 EP players on AD toons were working on keeps in advance of the push, taking the keeps, then leaving without doing any repairs (i.e., leaving the doors open). The advancing EP army could then enter the completely-open keep without any sieging required.
4. Frequently players swap back and forth among factions to maximize their AP. I once saw one player (identified by his @name) swap factions 6 times during the time I was playing, fighting for all three factions at some point.

A faction-lock would prevent a player from using any character on their account to fight for another faction for the duration of the under-level-50 campaign. Currently, players are exploiting this campaign to get the "Emperor" title and to gain AP. Allowing faction-swapping to bring Volendrung to one's home faction is outrageous. Of course, faction-locking would not stop the "professional" players who use multiple accounts to play this campaign as a full-time hobby, but faction-locking would certainly help those players who sincerely wish to experience an honest campaign.

Over three days, I saw nine Emperor-runs (three per faction). (There were more than nine runs in that time, I was only there for nine of them.) For seven of those runs, the new Emperor immediately abdicated (not staying to help retake Scrolls or keeps or outposts or towns), and nearly everyone in the new Emperor's faction logged-off or swapped factions. Only for two runs (out of nine) did the new Emperor continue to play for their faction, retaking scrolls and real estate. Obviously, this campaign is being exploited for the "Emperor" title.

Perhaps ZOS should: (1) eliminate "Emperor" from the under-level-50 campaign; or (2) allow the Emperor skill tree but do not grant the "Emperor" title. That would put a stop to a lot of this nonsense. The "Emperor" title is meaningless when it can be obtained via "exploits." It is also meaningless when a guild will "sell" the Emperor title for a gold donation. Or, perhaps, just eliminate the under-level-50 campaign entirely. Under-level-50 players could then play the no-CP campaign.

Four_Fingers

Then the 10 players that play there would leave.

rpa

I would not play traitor because it would be silly in my opinion and do not care about scores anyway but maybe it's an example of 'play as you want'. Is it against TOS?

(All my chars regardless of faction or level are homed in no-cp campaign because it's a mostly peaceful place to cheese occasional endeavor and do scouting missions and such if I want to unlock caltrops on some char.)

TybaltKaine

Removing sub 50 campaigns would be a long-term detriment to the health of PVP. If I went to a regular NO CP campaign instead of the sub 50 my first time out and got wrecked by people in fully specced gear with mythics I would never have played in Cyrodiil ever again.

Faction locking also isn't really viable because people play more than one alliance on their account. Would ZOS just give everyone "Any Race, Any Alliance" for free (even though they should)? No.

Just because there are players taking advantage of mechanics to score push doesn't mean you should just bin the whole thing. Report them, get some actual GM's in PVP campaigns that can keep it from happening and keep it trucking.

Yes, it sucks that this happens, but tossing everything is not the fix.

HumbleThaumaturge

TybaltKaine wrote: »

Removing sub 50 campaigns would be a long-term detriment to the health of PVP. If I went to a regular NO CP campaign instead of the sub 50 my first time out and got wrecked by people in fully specced gear with mythics I would never have played in Cyrodiil ever again.

Faction locking also isn't really viable because people play more than one alliance on their account. Would ZOS just give everyone "Any Race, Any Alliance" for free (even though they should)? No.

Just because there are players taking advantage of mechanics to score push doesn't mean you should just bin the whole thing. Report them, get some actual GM's in PVP campaigns that can keep it from happening and keep it trucking.

Yes, it sucks that this happens, but tossing everything is not the fix.

I have reported players. I got a robot reply to place them on "Ignore" list. I would love to see GMs spend some time in the under-level-50 campaign. I would especially love for them to evaluate the Professional Players there for possible cheating.

HumbleThaumaturge

Dekrypted wrote: »

Given it's under 50 and more intended for noobs,

I wish the under-level-50 campaign was a place for new players. Alas, it is not. It is the playground of advanced players.

Instead, the campaign is dominated by Professional Players (some call them Twinks) who play this campaign nearly every week. Such players are highly experienced PvP players, with hundreds (perhaps thousands) of hours of PvP, dueling, and target-dummy practice. Many of these players upgrade gear every 2 levels. Many use gold-quality gear. That is, they have gold-quality gear every 2 levels from level 10 on up. When a character nears level 50, they delete the character and start a new one, who then uses that gold gear. One of these fellows told me he has created nearly 1000 characters. I don't know if he was telling truth, but I know many create a new character every week or two. In other words, while the under-level-50 campaign may seem to be a place for new characters to learn PvP, these Professional Players can wipe a new player (or average player) in a couple of seconds. Even when I am in my Tank gear (with very high armor, crit resistance, health, and health regen), just 1 of these players can kill me in the blink of an eye. I sometimes suspect "cheats" are being used, but more experienced players tell me this is probably not the case.

I would love to see a Gamemaster go into this campaign and take a snapshot of players, documenting gear and stats. Some of these players have suspiciously over-powered performance (nearly unkillable, nearly infinite resources, extremely high damage). Compare and contrast the gear and stats of Professional players with new and regular players. Come on! Is this how the under-level-50 campaign should be?!

As an experiment, I took my recent new character into both the under-level-50 campaign and the no-CP campaign. Play was more challenging in the no-CP campaign, but it was a lot more fun, and there were many more players, so I had lots more support.

As a minimum, I think ZOS should do two things to give new players a little better chance against the Professional Players in the under-level-50 campaign:
- For all gear in under-level-50 Cyrodiil campaign, apply only the White-level buff. In other words, Green, Blue, Purple, and Gold level buffs would not be applied in this campaign.
- Eliminate all Procs in this campaign. These Professional Players often run advanced sets from veteran dungeons and trials (craftable at Transmute Station). ZOS previously eliminated Procs in Cyrodiil (as part of performance-improvement testing), so they know how to make it happen.

kringled_1

OP, you've been complaining about U50 campaigns for years now. I'm not saying you're incorrect about how the campaign plays out, but...you going in with years of U50 pvp under your belt sounds suspiciously like the professional players you're denouncing.
I would recommend just going to one of the 30 day campaigns, gray host if alliance locked is important to you. Even if your character is U50.
(for disclosure, I played multiple DC characters in U50 campaigns in 2018, tailing off in 2019. I still have all those characters, and haven't been in a U50 campaign since elsweyr launch.)

Mik195

I'd like an under 50 campaign where ZOS let's you upload a PVP build to use. That way newbies get to explore PVP on a more level basis.

tonyblack

I never understood how this campaign survived to this day in its current form. It might have some use at the start of the game but in recent years it’s completely pointless. I don’t remember the last time i saw any faction having 2 bars. Tbh the only purpose of this campaign nowadays is getting/selling emperor’s achievement. As an actual noob you’d be better off going into regular campaigns and join big groups there rather than being farmed for easy ap by 1.5 of remaining tryhards or wiping on solo pvd.

Imho it should be converted to regular no cp with procs and 30 days duration.

ArchMikem

They should just faction lock all camps period. Teach players what loyalty means.

Vulkunne

ArchMikem wrote: »

They should just faction lock all camps period. Teach players what loyalty means.

Correct. And then once or twice a year during midyears allow people the option to change. But this is a good start in the right direction.

Amottica

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

Given it's under 50 and more intended for noobs,

I wish the under-level-50 campaign was a place for new players. Alas, it is not. It is the playground of advanced players..

Considering you have been around for six years you are one of those advanced players with years of experience in ESO and Cyrodiil.

So, why are you in the U-50 campaign?

Beaverton

Mik195 wrote: »

I'd like an under 50 campaign where ZOS let's you upload a PVP build to use. That way newbies get to explore PVP on a more level basis.

Kind of like the PTS but on a main server? or with plug n play default builds? That is a cool idea. Not sure how it could be implemented.

HumbleThaumaturge

Amottica wrote: »

So, why are you in the U-50 campaign?

So why are you asking a question like that? Instead of addressing the issues? Agree or disagree with the issues. No need to get personal.

So, reviewing the main issue of my original post: Folks are exploiting the under-level-50 campaign by faction swapping to get the "Emperor" title for players. Some guilds even provide this service in exchange for gold. Faction-locking the campaign would greatly reduce this exploit, methinks.

Actually, I've been around for nine years (starting 7:00 a.m. EST March 30, 2014). For the past four years or so, I have only been playing a few weeks per year. Mostly play new content now. Mostly (98%?) play PvE content. I only play the under-level-50 campaign for new, permanent characters. I will be having no more new characters on the North American server. I may create one more new character (new class) on the EU server. But that will be my last use of the under-level-50 campaign.

I am by no means an advanced PvP player. I used to play the main (CP) campaign with a great PvP guild. I played healer. My guildmates were all much, much better than I. Great fun. As I said, I only go to the under-level-50 campaign for new characters and spend maybe 3 or 4 days there. Probably 95 percent of my PvP experience is in the main CP campaign playing Healer.

Before Account-Wide Achievements, I played the under-level-50 campaign to get Cyrodiil skyshards, delves, dolmen, and quests (town quests) for each new character. With account-wide achievements, we only need skyshards now for a new character. But I also like to get Alliance War up to level 6 or higher for the new character. They are permanent characters, so as soon as I reach my Alliance War level goals, they exit the under-level-50 campaign getting skill points, leveling-up, and running dungeons.

I am not in the same league with Professional Players in this campaign. They can kill me within seconds, whereas I can barely make their Health bars move. In fact, I have frequently seen just 1 of these players murder 12 normal players (i.e., 12 normal players cannot make their health bar move, yet they can kill the 12 players with ease). Now, I certainly have the ESO resources to craft gold-quality gear every 2 levels, but that would be [Shaogorath's voice here] craaaaaaaaazzzzy.

Galeriano

After that change population of this campaign would propably drop by 50% because this is what 10 players doing it is for overall low lv Cyro population.

Lumsdenml

The issue is not that there are "professional u50 players" in the campaign, it's that there is low population. If the campaign were more populated, those players would represent a smaller percentage of their faction and would have less influence over the map.

HumbleThaumaturge

Lumsdenml wrote: »

The issue is not that there are "professional u50 players" in the campaign, it's that there is low population. If the campaign were more populated, those players would represent a smaller percentage of their faction and would have less influence over the map.

True: But there is no solution to improving population. Although, maybe ZOS should only have an under-level-50 campaign during Whitestrake's Mayhem (Midyear Mayhem)? The campaign populations are much higher then. At all other (non-event) times of the year, under-level-50 characters could play the No-CP campaign, with a large Battle Leveling buff.

I got off-topic with my rant about Professional Players. My main issue was faction-swapping being used as an exploit to get the "Emperor" title for players. I know that nothing will ever be done to reduce the dominance of the Professional Players. But if we could end faction swapping (for the 7-day duration of the campaign) at least we might reduce the many "exploits" that currently are allowed by faction swapping, including swapping factions just to get folks the "Emperor" title (with little effort to honestly play the campaign).

Mik195

Beaverton wrote: »

Mik195 wrote: »

I'd like an under 50 campaign where ZOS let's you upload a PVP build to use. That way newbies get to explore PVP on a more level basis.

Kind of like the PTS but on a main server? or with plug n play default builds? That is a cool idea. Not sure how it could be implemented.

Yes, something like that would help snd give people a chance to experience the fun parts of pvp instead of dying without even a (very small) chance of fighting.

jle30303

I think it should be the other way: once you have had, and lost, the Emperor title, you are barred from becoming Emperor again, the Ruby Throne has no place for losers. You've had your crack at the top, you got your robes and your ruby dye, you got the title, now you've been thrown down, somebody else gets a go up there. You can gain an Empire, but you can't regain it after losing it, consider yourself lucky to even survive your own downfall, most emperors don't.

Yes, this would be account-wide.

Necrotech_Master

personally i think the under-50 campaign should probably block all set bonuses, this would be a much more level playing field, though new players would still get smoked by vets who knew how to play the game better, but that is something you will never be able to avoid in pretty much any pvp game

i think a lot of the problem the under-50 faces in terms of population, is that your blocked from the campaign as soon as you hit lvl 50, which unless the player has intention to stay there would require rolling another character

it also doesnt take that long to hit lvl 50 and get into cp ranks either, especially if someone only does pvp part time

Monte_Cristo

Pretty sure an idea like this would discourage people from playing in Cyrodiil even more. I know I never touch faction locked campaigns.

El_Borracho

Under-50 campaigns are supposed to be for noobs or people building new characters who are there to level up and move on. Yes, there are players who get enjoyment out of re-rolling characters to kill these new players. But we should not change an entire campaign simply because there is a fraction of players who can't handle the anguish of dying in real Cyrodiil.

Amottica

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

So, why are you in the U-50 campaign?

So why are you asking a question like that? Instead of addressing the issues? Agree or disagree with the issues. No need to get personal.

I was not getting personal at all and my question is very appropriate since it is asking about a very specific and clear statement you made. You started a post stating you "wish the under-level-50 campaign was a place for new players. Alas, it is not. It is the playground of advanced players." So again, if you feel that the U-50 campaign should be only for new players, instead of those under level 50 then why are you do you play in that campaign since you are an advanced player being you have been around for six years?

Since you started a post off with that statement it is clearly a big deal and something you consider an issue.

As for the so-called "issue" you bring up, if Zenimax felt there was truly an exploit that is problematic for the game all campaigns would be faction locked. On top of that, Cyrodiil is not designed to be a competitive PvP, to begin with. Cyrodiil's design is so there will always be an imbalance between the alliances and that will never change. It is the way AvA/WvW is.

For anyone that sees this as an issue, I suggest BGs as that is the only PvP in ESO designed to be competitive.

Xandreia_

I wish people would learn what an exploit is 🤦‍♀️

Krec

Low level is awful. It needs a faction lock or just remove it from the game. Removal won't hurt PVP as it a ghost town. Same people farming whatever noob comes through, usually twinked and re-rolling. A long time ago, when there was pop, it was fun leveling toons up there. Faction lock would hamper the funny business.

Dr_Con

Delete u50 cyrodiil.

It's nothing but emp farming or newb stomping nonsense for smurfs.

Items and abilities scale better with level now so it won't be any real loss, players can participate in normal campaigns.

When I play with actual new players with u50 characters, we do better in normal campaigns because large teams of smurfs in u50. New players do not like facing these players and it makes them less likely to continue pvp'ing.

The u50 campaigns aren't for new players anymore despite them being its target demographic and it actually does more harm than good to new player retention, per my own experience with dozens of new players. More fun and learning is to be had in the other campaigns for new u50 players.

U50 Battlegrounds is probably fine though.

to ZOS- Save server space and improve the new player experience at the same time by deleting u50 Cyrodiil.

Jierdanit

ArchMikem wrote: »

They should just faction lock all camps period. Teach players what loyalty means.

You're playing a video game, not fighting in an actual war you know?
If you want to play for just one faction sure, but don't keep other players from having fun because they don't play like you want.

Xandreia_

Jierdanit wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

They should just faction lock all camps period. Teach players what loyalty means.

You're playing a video game, not fighting in an actual war you know?
If you want to play for just one faction sure, but don't keep other players from having fun because they don't play like you want.

This!!

Lumsdenml

Dr_Con wrote: »

Delete u50 cyrodiil.

It's nothing but emp farming or newb stomping nonsense for smurfs.

Items and abilities scale better with level now so it won't be any real loss, players can participate in normal campaigns.

When I play with actual new players with u50 characters, we do better in normal campaigns because large teams of smurfs in u50. New players do not like facing these players and it makes them less likely to continue pvp'ing.

The u50 campaigns aren't for new players anymore despite them being its target demographic and it actually does more harm than good to new player retention, per my own experience with dozens of new players. More fun and learning is to be had in the other campaigns for new u50 players.

U50 Battlegrounds is probably fine though.

to ZOS- Save server space and improve the new player experience at the same time by deleting u50 Cyrodiil.

There is a very large misconception in the community that u50 was intended to be for new players. That is simply untrue. It is for new characters. Characters who do not have the same abilities unlocked as a CP character. Characters who can not wear mythics (used to include monster helms, but that changed). It is actually more healthy than having a new character going into a vet campaign and trying to complete with characters who are much more leveled and geared.

This misconception as exacerbated the issues with u50. As the population fell off, more and more people complained that "u50 professionals" were trolling the campaign "designed for new players" which drove more and more people into the vet campaigns.

I think the solution (and what the heck to I know???) would be to add incentives into the u50 campaign to increase the population. More transmutes, gold mats... Stuff people want and that would get more people into that campaign.

Four_Fingers

It is not a "new" player campaign, it is an under level 50 campaign for all players.
I hate just leveling a new alt in PvE and enjoy leveling them in the under 50 campaign with it's both PvE and PvP elements.
It allows for leveling both xp and ap.
As for farming new players under 50 is mostly about PvDoor as there is only a handful of players on all factions that even play there. So it is a horrible place to farm players to start with.
I do farm citrus from dailies.

Vulkunne

jle30303 wrote: »

I think it should be the other way: once you have had, and lost, the Emperor title, you are barred from becoming Emperor again, the Ruby Throne has no place for losers. You've had your crack at the top, you got your robes and your ruby dye, you got the title, now you've been thrown down, somebody else gets a go up there. You can gain an Empire, but you can't regain it after losing it, consider yourself lucky to even survive your own downfall, most emperors don't.

Yes, this would be account-wide.

There is truth in this. Maybe make them wait every other Emp or once a Campaign or somethin.