Will you be changing your heavy att oakensoul build?

Syiccal

Still using sargents mail/ storm master or not, if not whay you replacing with?

Turtle_Bot

as far as I know, sargents mail isn't changing, it's storm master thats getting nerfed.

most will probably stick with it or switch back to undaunted infiltrator/weaver.

best to see what they do this coming week before deciding since that is supposed to be the bigger balance changes for this pts cycle

Liguar

Nope, gonna keep playing the way I prefer, regardless.
(I didn't use storm master, and won't be doing any group content that I can't solo/duo)

FrancisCrawford

I got in late to the HA/Oakensoul game, but:

• Sergeant's Mail isn't the problem. The problem is the second set, which traditionally has been Storm Master.
• I never finished a build including Storm Master. I very recently made one with Undaunted Infiltrator instead.
• The choice of second set doesn't seem to matter all THAT much. My highest parse ever was with Spell Power Cure (!) as the second set (on a magden). I've mainly used Spider Cultist as my second set. Others use Order's Wrath. (Note: If you don't have a Sergeant's Mail lightning staff, Order's Wrath is craftable and Spider Cultist is probably the single easiest dungeon set to farm.)
• I don't do raids, and without all the raid (de)buffs, I'm not convinced that medium armor is good over light armor anyway. That said, light armor sets all have drawbacks. Stat sets probably aren't as good as the best HA ones, if you optimize the use of those. Undaunted Unweaver's requirement for casting a stamina skill every third HA can be anything from a big hassle to no hassle at all, depending on your class and preferred build.
• Similarly, I doubt I'll ever use Noble Duelist -- but if you don't mind having to be in melee range, you might like it.

Questions for others:

• How does Crystal Weapon (alt morph to Crystal Frags) work in a HA build? Does it require melee range? How about Bound Armaments?
• Have you healed with HA lightning staff builds? Did you use SPC if you did? How did that work out for you -- especially on Sorcerer, which doesn't seem to have much of a usable way to proc SPC other than Energy Orb?

Syiccal

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

as far as I know, sargents mail isn't changing, it's storm master thats getting nerfed.

most will probably stick with it or switch back to undaunted infiltrator/weaver.

best to see what they do this coming week before deciding since that is supposed to be the bigger balance changes for this pts cycle

Yes your right I wrote the wrong one,,I have edited my initial question

Turtle_Bot

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I got in late to the HA/Oakensoul game, but:

• Sergeant's Mail isn't the problem. The problem is the second set, which traditionally has been Storm Master.
• I never finished a build including Storm Master. I very recently made one with Undaunted Infiltrator instead.
• The choice of second set doesn't seem to matter all THAT much. My highest parse ever was with Spell Power Cure (!) as the second set (on a magden). I've mainly used Spider Cultist as my second set. Others use Order's Wrath. (Note: If you don't have a Sergeant's Mail lightning staff, Order's Wrath is craftable and Spider Cultist is probably the single easiest dungeon set to farm.)
• I don't do raids, and without all the raid (de)buffs, I'm not convinced that medium armor is good over light armor anyway. That said, light armor sets all have drawbacks. Stat sets probably aren't as good as the best HA ones, if you optimize the use of those. Undaunted Unweaver's requirement for casting a stamina skill every third HA can be anything from a big hassle to no hassle at all, depending on your class and preferred build.
• Similarly, I doubt I'll ever use Noble Duelist -- but if you don't mind having to be in melee range, you might like it.

Questions for others:

• How does Crystal Weapon (alt morph to Crystal Frags) work in a HA build? Does it require melee range? How about Bound Armaments?
• Have you healed with HA lightning staff builds? Did you use SPC if you did? How did that work out for you -- especially on Sorcerer, which doesn't seem to have much of a usable way to proc SPC other than Energy Orb?

I don't heal for vet content, especially trials, but for normal daily randoms I will slot orbs alongside matriarch and go as a healer. Orbs with full dps is more than enough for normal daily randoms, even dlc and matriarch suffices in case the tank only has 20k health and no taunt.

If you want to try a more heal heavy build, off the top of my head, maybe a resto staff (with the passive that heals allies near the target of your HA for some of the damage done) could work too, this way you should have decent damage from resto heavy + sergents mail and plenty of healing from heavy attacks, orbs, matriarch and other morph of crit surge that heals on crit heal.
I haven't tried this set up, but with resto being similar to lightning in triggering sergents mail, it should work in theory. Other classes could pull it off fairly easily as well, replace matriarch with class burst heal, crit surge with class HoT and run orbs (or shards for plar).

chessalavakia_ESO

I wasn't using Storm Master on anything.

I had gotten the golden jewelry for it but, I hadn't actually implemented it.

Now, I'm definitely not going to be using it.

My Heavy Attack builds don't just heavy attack so I don't want to over-commit to sets that just buff heavies and the new shortened uptime makes Storm Master just into a worse version of Sergeant's Mail.

Syiccal

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

I wasn't using Storm Master on anything.

I had gotten the golden jewelry for it but, I hadn't actually implemented it.

Now, I'm definitely not going to be using it.

My Heavy Attack builds don't just heavy attack so I don't want to over-commit to sets that just buff heavies and the new shortened uptime makes Storm Master just into a worse version of Sergeant's Mail.

What you using instead

Agenericname

I only use Storm Master's when pen isnt an issue. When it is, I use Noble Dualist, Infalible Mage, Undaunted Unweaver, Orders Wrath, Back Alley Gourmand, and have looked at but not used Graven Inevitability. Noble Dualist is my goto.

Ill probably keep going like I have been until someone finds a medium set that does more than Storm Masters.

Syiccal

Yew I was looking at undaunted Unweaver to be fair as with storm master I only have like 2k pen at best solo (unbuffed) so light armour choices may be better solo..maybe undaunted Infiltrator for groups groups going forward,

Agenericname

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I got in late to the HA/Oakensoul game, but:

• Sergeant's Mail isn't the problem. The problem is the second set, which traditionally has been Storm Master.
• I never finished a build including Storm Master. I very recently made one with Undaunted Infiltrator instead.
• The choice of second set doesn't seem to matter all THAT much. My highest parse ever was with Spell Power Cure (!) as the second set (on a magden). I've mainly used Spider Cultist as my second set. Others use Order's Wrath. (Note: If you don't have a Sergeant's Mail lightning staff, Order's Wrath is craftable and Spider Cultist is probably the single easiest dungeon set to farm.)
• I don't do raids, and without all the raid (de)buffs, I'm not convinced that medium armor is good over light armor anyway. That said, light armor sets all have drawbacks. Stat sets probably aren't as good as the best HA ones, if you optimize the use of those. Undaunted Unweaver's requirement for casting a stamina skill every third HA can be anything from a big hassle to no hassle at all, depending on your class and preferred build.
• Similarly, I doubt I'll ever use Noble Duelist -- but if you don't mind having to be in melee range, you might like it.

Questions for others:

[*] How does Crystal Weapon (alt morph to Crystal Frags) work in a HA build? Does it require melee range? How about Bound Armaments?
[*] Have you healed with HA lightning staff builds? Did you use SPC if you did? How did that work out for you -- especially on Sorcerer, which doesn't seem to have much of a usable way to proc SPC other than Energy Orb?

I use Crystal Weapon quite often. It does not require melee range. It works with HA as well. Its Dark Magic so it procs the Minor Phophecy 6% buff for the extra crit chance.

Its an easy way to proc a set like Undaunted Unweaver. You just to figure out a way to track them because UW is every 10s while Minor Prophecy is every 20s. It's also a little extra pen, so its nice to have when needed.

Noble Duelist does require melee range, but only the first tick of the heavy. I find it pretty easy to maintain and it lasts for 15s.

We do occassionally run an Oakensoul "healer" in 4 person content. We dont use SPC because the few times we have played around with it, we were all Oak and the tank ran Olorimes. I would think that you probably can use it, between the Matriarch and the orbs you will be able to overheal. I personally find there to be a good bit of flexibity in 4 person content because you could make that work with a warden because of their class kit or perhaps a necro, relatively easily depending on what the group needed.

N3CR01

Firstly, the nerf to Storm doesn't appear to be that bad so most will probably just stick with it.

Only three of my toons are HA builds and two are wearing Storm, my warden is using Grave Inevitability which seems to work very well (although that's a solo arena build) but I also use it in vet trials and seems to do just as well as Storm there.

TybaltKaine

No, because I never bothered with this new "meta" anyway. I'm more interested in the 10% debuff to Empower than anything else, as that is the crux of all my HA builds, Oaken or not. I'm not much of a PVP guy, so I don't really concern myself with changes that alter that mode. I do, however, care a lot when PVP builds start to ruin PVE builds because of edge case uses that get sensationalized.

Personally, my HA staff build will stay the same. I may take a little longer to kill things, but my wife and our guildies don't mind.

chessalavakia_ESO

Syiccal wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

I wasn't using Storm Master on anything.

I had gotten the golden jewelry for it but, I hadn't actually implemented it.

Now, I'm definitely not going to be using it.

My Heavy Attack builds don't just heavy attack so I don't want to over-commit to sets that just buff heavies and the new shortened uptime makes Storm Master just into a worse version of Sergeant's Mail.

What you using instead

On the Nightblade, I use War Maiden's.

On my healer/dps hybrids I was using Queen's Elegance as the cost reduction from light attacks was useful and it provided an easy source of Empower but, when Empower hit Oakensoul and Major Courage left it I swapped back to using Spell Power Cure.

Zodiarkslayer

People are overreacting. It seems the total dps loss of the Empower nerf is about 2% to 3%. Not 10% 🤦‍♂️

Storm Master doesn't concern me either. I moved to Noble Duelist after the first couple of months, because I was dissatisfied with the levels of penetration and crit chance when I am not in a group.

Syiccal

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

People are overreacting. It seems the total dps loss of the Empower nerf is about 2% to 3%. Not 10% 🤦‍♂️

Storm Master doesn't concern me either. I moved to Noble Duelist after the first couple of months, because I was dissatisfied with the levels of penetration and crit chance when I am not in a group.

How do you find the mele range condition?

AcadianPaladin

My HA Oakensorc will continue to use Sergeant's Mail + Mother's Sorrow.

Proc'ing SPC - my magward and magplar both use Vigor for that.

FrancisCrawford

Agenericname wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I got in late to the HA/Oakensoul game, but:

• Sergeant's Mail isn't the problem. The problem is the second set, which traditionally has been Storm Master.
• I never finished a build including Storm Master. I very recently made one with Undaunted Infiltrator instead.
• The choice of second set doesn't seem to matter all THAT much. My highest parse ever was with Spell Power Cure (!) as the second set (on a magden). I've mainly used Spider Cultist as my second set. Others use Order's Wrath. (Note: If you don't have a Sergeant's Mail lightning staff, Order's Wrath is craftable and Spider Cultist is probably the single easiest dungeon set to farm.)
• I don't do raids, and without all the raid (de)buffs, I'm not convinced that medium armor is good over light armor anyway. That said, light armor sets all have drawbacks. Stat sets probably aren't as good as the best HA ones, if you optimize the use of those. Undaunted Unweaver's requirement for casting a stamina skill every third HA can be anything from a big hassle to no hassle at all, depending on your class and preferred build.
• Similarly, I doubt I'll ever use Noble Duelist -- but if you don't mind having to be in melee range, you might like it.

Questions for others:

[*] How does Crystal Weapon (alt morph to Crystal Frags) work in a HA build? Does it require melee range? How about Bound Armaments?
[*] Have you healed with HA lightning staff builds? Did you use SPC if you did? How did that work out for you -- especially on Sorcerer, which doesn't seem to have much of a usable way to proc SPC other than Energy Orb?

I use Crystal Weapon quite often. It does not require melee range. It works with HA as well. Its Dark Magic so it procs the Minor Phophecy 6% buff for the extra crit chance.

Its an easy way to proc a set like Undaunted Unweaver. You just to figure out a way to track them because UW is every 10s while Minor Prophecy is every 20s. It's also a little extra pen, so its nice to have when needed.

Noble Duelist does require melee range, but only the first tick of the heavy. I find it pretty easy to maintain and it lasts for 15s.

We do occassionally run an Oakensoul "healer" in 4 person content. We dont use SPC because the few times we have played around with it, we were all Oak and the tank ran Olorimes. I would think that you probably can use it, between the Matriarch and the orbs you will be able to overheal. I personally find there to be a good bit of flexibity in 4 person content because you could make that work with a warden because of their class kit or perhaps a necro, relatively easily depending on what the group needed.

Thanks for the Crystal Weapon clarity!

I always presume 10 seconds or less means every third HA. That goes well with 6 seconds or more also meaning every third HA.

My only 3 million dummy solo parse of 40K or better ever was a recent one trying SPC on a magden. I was using magicka birds for my spammable for the Off-Balance and spell power, so of course the self-overheal took care of itself. Overall, I only used 3 skills plus the bear, since the other 2 slots were reserved for heals I'd use when playing in a small group.

Zodiarkslayer

Syiccal wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

People are overreacting. It seems the total dps loss of the Empower nerf is about 2% to 3%. Not 10% 🤦‍♂️

Storm Master doesn't concern me either. I moved to Noble Duelist after the first couple of months, because I was dissatisfied with the levels of penetration and crit chance when I am not in a group.

How do you find the mele range condition?

Acceptable. I mostly play SOLO with my heavy attack Sorceress and that means melee range almost all the time.
I change it out for SPC when I heal with her in random VetDungs.

Skullstachio

Noble duelist is usually good, has the highest light/heavy damage bonus right next to sergeant's mail and when using overload, procs very easily on heavy attacks since it hits targets in a 5 x 8 meter area and the noble duelist proc conditions are usually in a 5 meter range, soon to be 7 meters post-necrom given the recent notes.

Plus I watched the lazysorc build video by xynode gaming, he makes quite a few good points regarding armor selection.

FrancisCrawford

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

People are overreacting. It seems the total dps loss of the Empower nerf is about 2% to 3%. Not 10% 🤦‍♂️

Storm Master doesn't concern me either. I moved to Noble Duelist after the first couple of months, because I was dissatisfied with the levels of penetration and crit chance when I am not in a group.

How do you find the mele range condition?

Acceptable. I mostly play SOLO with my heavy attack Sorceress and that means melee range all the time.
I change it out for SPC when I heal with her in random VetDungs.

What skills do you run when you heal?

Syiccal

Crit surge and martriarch is enough for solo

FrancisCrawford

Syiccal wrote: »

Crit surge and martriarch is enough for solo

Solo skill bars are crowded. There are obvious reasons to want:

• Both pets (and yes -- Matriarch morph for the heals).
• Deadric Prey.
• Elemental Susceptibility and Wall of Elements. (Together they provide Major Breach plus near-perfect Off-Balance uptime, although in both cases single-target).

But that would preclude any extra healing or shielding.

What do you usually leave out to make room for Crit Surge?

Syiccal

Either wall or caltrops for me depending on the content I'm doing.

Has anyone tried storm cursed on heavy att set up?

jaws343

I'll likely not change it. But I was already considering swapping over to Noble's, so that may happen before the patch even hits.

However, that new mythic might have me swapping back to my normal solo build.

FrancisCrawford

Syiccal wrote: »

Either wall or caltrops for me depending on the content I'm doing.

How's your Off-Balance uptime with Wall?

(I presume it's negligible without it, unless you're relying on a companion.)

Syiccal

Yeani don't rely to much on off balance without it and change cp to wrathful strikes instead

Zodiarkslayer

jaws343 wrote: »

However, that new mythic might have me swapping back to my normal solo build.

You mean the Velothi-Ur Amulet, the mythic that got nerfed hard? You might want to stay flexible and wait until the end of the pts.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

What skills do you run when you heal?

I swap to Resto Staff, because almost all Boss fights are single target anyways. And the Resto has almost as high Heavy attacks as Lightning Staff has. It's less than a 5% difference in dps.

So the abilities are prayer and regen, plus two pets and daedric prey on front bar.
Backbar with Wall of Lightning, Caltrops and a flex spot, plus pets.
Ultimates depend. Resto, Destro, Attro, Horn and Dawnbreaker are the usual suspects.

jaws343

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

However, that new mythic might have me swapping back to my normal solo build.

You mean the Velothi-Ur Amulet, the mythic that got nerfed hard? You might want to stay flexible and wait until the end of the pts.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

What skills do you run when you heal?

I swap to Resto Staff, because almost all Boss fights are single target anyways. And the Resto has almost as high Heavy attacks as Lightning Staff has. It's less than a 5% difference in dps.

So the abilities are prayer and regen, plus two pets and daedric prey on front bar.
Backbar with Wall of Lightning, Caltrops and a flex spot, plus pets.
Ultimates depend. Resto, Destro, Attro, Horn and Dawnbreaker are the usual suspects.

Yeah the amulet. It's still in a good spot imo. Hardly nerfed hard. Especially for a solo build.

BaalMelqartu

I swapped my Storm Master set out for Infallible Mage and have noticed NO dps loss in content. I was recently made to realize that if you're not running around in "fully optimized" groups, the pen, perks of light armor equal things out and it turned out to be true for me. Now I'd only go back to Storm Master if I actually found myself in groups where they all wear just the right things, etc... like is emulated when you stand in from a trial parse dummy. If I were to judge only from parsing, Storm Master would be better. In actual content, Infallible Mage has turned out to be every bit as good for me.

Syiccal

Infalable mage imo isn't great on an oakensoul build as you get everything from your ring and shock dmg any way that Infalable gives..any other light set would do the same if not better..I'm currently weighing up to farm storm cursed set.