Relequen Set

VinnyGambini

Isn't relequen OP as hell? Last time I did some duels in bergama I noticed most ppl use relequen, and I started to wonder why. Then I did some calculations:
A character with 7k wep dmg (which is common) will reach 400 dmg tooltip with relequen, that is 4k, with 10 stacks. That is 4k dps with set itself.
Comparing to other proc sets for example way of fire - same character will reach 4,4k tooltip, but every 2s = 2,2k dps.
Another example is Pillar of nirn - also same character, 26k tooltip, over 10s = 2,6k dps.

As you can see Relequen is WAY more powerful than other sets, personally I think it's extremly OP. And this is both PvP and PvE, it just looks like a pure exploit, and basiccally every elite player uses this set, both PvP and PvE.

My suggestion is - lower it's dmg to pillar of nirn level, or make it 10% stronger maximum.

Treeshka

Relequen is a proc set but requires you to constantly light attack to a target to work, unlike Pillar of Nirn. It would be a problem if you can get ten stack with Relequen instantly but that is not the case.

UtopianWarrior88

The fact that you have to keep it up and work for it makes it not overpowered but simply very good. You can pretty much cast a max of 2 skills backbar if you are optimising your setup (pillar back + mythic + monster)

finehair

It's not op in PvP at all. I've never used it in PvP, but fought against people who did. Whenever I see those winds stacking under my character I laugh and go for the kill person using it. You need to stack it via light attacks, it has minor slayer on one of the bonuses which is a waste in PvP. The proc isn't that good since you need to apply it over time unlike burst proc sets.
The set just gives crit, minor slayer and the proc. Crit itself is pretty underwhelming if you're planning to fight a long fight since it is so easy to build crit resistance with new sets and cp. Minor slayer is out of the picture as I already say. The numbers on the proc seem big, but in order to get that big number, you need to apply it over a long time (10 light attacks to get full effect) and in order to apply it, you need to be still alive. Other bonuses in this set won't keep you alive. It has no Max stats, no recoveries, no damage to give you big heals. You can not use it on stealth burst build. If you want dot procs there are much better and much easier to get than this trial dropped set.

LunaFlora

it's a fun set

CE_Nex

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Isn't relequen OP as hell? Last time I did some duels in bergama I noticed most ppl use relequen, and I started to wonder why. Then I did some calculations:
A character with 7k wep dmg (which is common) will reach 400 dmg tooltip with relequen, that is 4k, with 10 stacks. That is 4k dps with set itself.
Comparing to other proc sets for example way of fire - same character will reach 4,4k tooltip, but every 2s = 2,2k dps.
Another example is Pillar of nirn - also same character, 26k tooltip, over 10s = 2,6k dps.

As you can see Relequen is WAY more powerful than other sets, personally I think it's extremly OP. And this is both PvP and PvE, it just looks like a pure exploit, and basiccally every elite player uses this set, both PvP and PvE.

My suggestion is - lower it's dmg to pillar of nirn level, or make it 10% stronger maximum.

Relequen is actually not all that good in PvP. For starters, Battle Spirit automatically reduces it's damage by 50% in Cyrodiil and BGs. And on top of that, because it requires consistent light attack damage every GCD to maintain max stacks, kiting, line of sighting and maintaining defensive distance as needed (which are staples of ESO PvP) make it highly ineffective in PvP. Unless, of course, the player opposite of the player using Relequen is just going to allow their enemy to land every single one of their light attacks through the entirety of the duel without taking any evasive measures.

In PvE, Relequen is only suitable for fights that are mostly single target without any significant down time phases. In bosses like Oax, Bahsei, Reef Guardian, Refabrication Committee, and other AoE centric fights, Relequen just does not perform nearly as well as other sets would. Very strong set, yes. But conditional.

virtus753

CE_Nex wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Isn't relequen OP as hell? Last time I did some duels in bergama I noticed most ppl use relequen, and I started to wonder why. Then I did some calculations:
A character with 7k wep dmg (which is common) will reach 400 dmg tooltip with relequen, that is 4k, with 10 stacks. That is 4k dps with set itself.
Comparing to other proc sets for example way of fire - same character will reach 4,4k tooltip, but every 2s = 2,2k dps.
Another example is Pillar of nirn - also same character, 26k tooltip, over 10s = 2,6k dps.

As you can see Relequen is WAY more powerful than other sets, personally I think it's extremly OP. And this is both PvP and PvE, it just looks like a pure exploit, and basiccally every elite player uses this set, both PvP and PvE.

My suggestion is - lower it's dmg to pillar of nirn level, or make it 10% stronger maximum.

And on top of that, because it requires consistent light attack damage every GCD to maintain max stacks

To get the most out of Rele you do need to light attack every GCD, making it suboptimal in PvP and those PvE situations you mentioned, but that’s not required for stacks. The entire stack lasts 5 seconds from your last light attack, so missing even three consecutive GCDs won’t let any stacks drop. (Missing four is risky because humans don’t hit LAs every 1.00s exactly and the spare milliseconds add up.) But Rele also does damage every time you light attack in addition to its once-per-second tick, so light attacking every single GCD does help add a lot of damage even though it isn’t required more than once per five seconds to maintain stacks. You can get up to 1.4 hits of Rele per second that way if you just spam light attacks, but in top parses it will be closer to 1.25 due to having to cast skills as well.

VinnyGambini

You sure it is so weak for pvp?



Go Bergama and see yourself that 50% of elite PvPers are using it.

And I'm quite sure more than 50% elite PvEers are also using it.

Are they all wrong?

Zastrix

VinnyGambini wrote: »

You sure it is so weak for pvp?



Go Bergama and see yourself that 50% of elite PvPers are using it.

And I'm quite sure more than 50% elite PvEers are also using it.

Are they all wrong?

Sure I guess in duels? When it's guaranteed that you're playing 1v1 relequen can be good. In a group fight the usability goes down. It's the meta PvE set for some years already because of the pure single-target damage where you have to constantly light attack to keep it up. It also needs to be stacked to be useful so just using one light attack doesn't do much.

Shepoffire

Rele isn't that great in any content. But pvp? Definitely not

VinnyGambini wrote: »

You sure it is so weak for pvp?



Go Bergama and see yourself that 50% of elite PvPers are using it.

And I'm quite sure more than 50% elite PvEers are also using it.

Are they all wrong?

The fact that it ticked on you 94 times for such a low amount of damage should show you..... Like that less than 1k dps

sarahthes

Shepoffire wrote: »

Rele isn't that great in any content. But pvp? Definitely not

VinnyGambini wrote: »

You sure it is so weak for pvp?



Go Bergama and see yourself that 50% of elite PvPers are using it.

And I'm quite sure more than 50% elite PvEers are also using it.

Are they all wrong?

The fact that it ticked on you 94 times for such a low amount of damage should show you..... Like that less than 1k dps

LOL Relequen is one of the meta raid DPS sets (for certain types of encounters).

Can't it be purged in PvP?

Dr_Con

VinnyGambini wrote: »

You sure it is so weak for pvp?



Go Bergama and see yourself that 50% of elite PvPers are using it.

And I'm quite sure more than 50% elite PvEers are also using it.

Are they all wrong?

you let it get 94 ticks (which means at least 1 minute 34 seconds) on you and it still only did 39k damage (this is a whopping 414 DPS over 94 seconds). replace the set with something like galerion's revenge and you'll see more burst damage with even 50 light attacks (a floor of around 10 procs of 7k damage each, and the stacks last 20 seconds as opposed to relequens 5) and a proc set that can actually crit (relequens proc does not crit)

and who pvps in bergama? or should I say, I don't think we should care about PVP performance in Bergama. i am in many pvp discords and they prefer to pvp in cyrodiil, battlegrounds, or imperial city. PVP'ing in duels is a controlled environment, more of a guild-sponsored event. ZOS would receive deserved criticism if they decided to balance sets around their performance in duels in wide-open spaces. Yes you can test out your builds to see how it performs, but in reality no one is going to let themselves get 94 stacks of relequens on them, and if they do they need to change how they are playing.

To the OP (original poster)- In the future I would consider asking an open ended question like "what sets are better than Relequens in PVP" rather than calling out as being "op (overpowered) as hell." It's a meta set for certain duel builds like some of the ones that dodge every 7th or 9th attack (for a more comprehensive list, look for dueling events where there are banned sets to see what is "op" in a duel setting), but it's not a meta set for PVP. As another poster said- it's a set that marks you as an easy kill in PVP environments, it's a set that screams "come kill me, I forgot to change out of my trial gear."

NiteAdder

I agree, It needs a neft, way op !!!

Jaimeh

VinnyGambini wrote: »

You sure it is so weak for pvp?



Go Bergama and see yourself that 50% of elite PvPers are using it.

And I'm quite sure more than 50% elite PvEers are also using it.

Are they all wrong?

These are probably people who are baiting pvp dueling newbies and going glass canon to nuke them. No one wears it in Cyrodiil. It doesn't work well at all with the constant movement, so you can't maintain the stacks (not to mention the reduction via battle spirit as mentioned above). Of all the things people complain about, Relequen being OP in PvP was not one I ever expected to hear...

Somber97866

What about it! how about we leave it alone!

CompM4s

That guy was probably dueling on his pve build while waiting for daily que. No one uses it in pvp competitively.

CE_Nex

VinnyGambini wrote: »

You sure it is so weak for pvp?



Go Bergama and see yourself that 50% of elite PvPers are using it.

And I'm quite sure more than 50% elite PvEers are also using it.

Are they all wrong?

38,994 total damage with 94 total ticks comes down to 415 damage per tick, which yeah, isn't that strong. As opposed to Zaan which did 9,693 damage over 9 ticks which comes out to 1077 damage per tick, more than double Relequen. Heck, even those 10 ticks of degen did more damage in a short burst scenario than Relequen. And once one moves out of open world and goes into instanced PvP like BGs or Cyrodiil and IC, then Relequen becomes significantly weaker due to Battle Spirit. Especially when you take into consideration Relequen is one the few proc sets that cannot crit.

Rele is not strong in PvP. And the numbers show it.

Shepoffire

sarahthes wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

Rele isn't that great in any content. But pvp? Definitely not

VinnyGambini wrote: »

You sure it is so weak for pvp?



Go Bergama and see yourself that 50% of elite PvPers are using it.

And I'm quite sure more than 50% elite PvEers are also using it.

Are they all wrong?

The fact that it ticked on you 94 times for such a low amount of damage should show you..... Like that less than 1k dps

LOL Relequen is one of the meta raid DPS sets (for certain types of encounters).

Can't it be purged in PvP?

It's meta for parsing. In some trial and dungeon encounters sure it's great. In pvp you can cut the damage in half for starters, factor in that most people in pvp are usually around 25k resist. This is like 400 damager per tick, it's absolutely trash in pvp

virtus753

CE_Nex wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

You sure it is so weak for pvp?



Go Bergama and see yourself that 50% of elite PvPers are using it.

And I'm quite sure more than 50% elite PvEers are also using it.

Are they all wrong?

38,994 total damage with 94 total ticks comes down to 415 damage per tick, which yeah, isn't that strong. As opposed to Zaan which did 9,693 damage over 9 ticks which comes out to 1077 damage per tick, more than double Relequen. Heck, even those 10 ticks of degen did more damage in a short burst scenario than Relequen. And once one moves out of open world and goes into instanced PvP like BGs or Cyrodiil and IC, then Relequen becomes significantly weaker due to Battle Spirit. Especially when you take into consideration Relequen is one the few proc sets that cannot crit.

Rele is not strong in PvP. And the numbers show it.

Battle Spirit applies in duels as well as Cyro/BGs/IC.

Nord_Raseri

VinnyGambini wrote: »

You sure it is so weak for pvp?

Yes. We are very sure. 38k over one and a half minutes is not strong in any way.

Necrotech_Master

yeah relequen is terrible for pvp, and i kind of laugh when someone hits me with it cause it does so little, and im on a way off meta stamblade lol

i rarely if ever get more than 1-2 stacks from someone using relequen, 400 tooltip dmg in pvp is like 200, then armor and mitigations probably bring that down to 80-100 per stack, so even with 10 stacks that would be like 800-1000, but you would have to actually maintain it on a target, which is extremely difficulty in pvp

if you want to see OP wait till you get nearly 1 shot by a 19-22k dmg assassins will lol

Nord_Raseri

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

400 tooltip dmg in pvp is like 200, then armor and mitigations probably bring that down to 80-100 per stack, so even with 10 stacks that would be like 800-1000, but you would have to actually maintain it on a target, which is extremely difficulty in pvp

That 415 dps IS the full 10 stacks!

Heelie

Relequen is the best set for stack and burn fights in pve, not because it's particularly good, but because most trial sets, especially the medium ones are really disappointing, you only really use it because it's the best minor slayer set, not because it's a good set, the only reason it's op in duels is because battle spirit is missing, and it's a guaranteed 1v1, I don't think the game should balance around duels because it's not leaderboard competitive and you can self balance with gentelmens agreements in tournaments etc.

virtus753

Heelie wrote: »

Relequen is the best set for stack and burn fights in pve, not because it's particularly good, but because most trial sets, especially the medium ones are really disappointing, you only really use it because it's the best minor slayer set, not because it's a good set, the only reason it's op in duels is because battle spirit is missing, and it's a guaranteed 1v1, I don't think the game should balance around duels because it's not leaderboard competitive and you can self balance with gentelmens agreements in tournaments etc.

Battle Spirit applies in duels, as anyone trying to use Power of the Light can tell you…

dinokstrunz

It's pretty good in 1v1 situations for PvP. It adds a lot of pressure for ranged builds. Cleanse isn't very effective against it as it can only remove several stacks at a time.

virtus753

dinokstrunz wrote: »

It's pretty good in 1v1 situations for PvP. It adds a lot of pressure for ranged builds. Cleanse isn't very effective against it as it can only remove several stacks at a time.

There is something very buggy with cleansing Rele. It doesn't properly remove stacks and make them start again.

At full stacks in a duel, I cleansed with Ritual of Retribution. That sent the stacks back down to 1x (65 damage per tick rather than 648), but then the next light attack jacked it back up to full 10x stacks (back to 648 damage per second).

So cleansing is neither removing all stacks (1x remained), and it also isn't properly resetting the counter, since it went from 1x --> 10x in one light attack as long as the 5-second timer of Rele hadn't run out.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18ntqiHkKEKBafD9N9f1zf5gWPAr715Kp/view?usp=share_link

*Note that the 686 is the 10x stack with Minor Breach from Sundered. 648 is the full 10x without Sundered/Minor Breach. 65 is the 1x stack without the debuff.

ETA: The debuff tracking in game is also bugged, as it *says* the stacks went from 10x to 9x with Ritual, while the incoming damage was only a 1x stack (65/tick). So there is a lot ZOS will have to look at and fix here.