AD getting low pop bonus for about 8 hours/day 5 days/week now PC NA

ProudMary

What is going on ZOS?!? Something is very broken here. AD is getting low pop bonus so often now EP has no chance to move out of the basement even though EP is actually fielding players.

Your low pop bonus algorithm DOES NOT WORK FAIRLY with population caps this low.

Please fix this broken system or raise the population caps back up to at least 150 players/faction.

UnabashedlyHonest

I play AD and have to agree, the low pop system is grossly broken at this point. We are winning by not playing. I'm pretty sure that's not the effect ZOS intended.

biminirwb17_ESO

AD/EP/DC get low pop bonus because in the preceding hours they had a lower population. Simples.

Minnesinger

To be fair, AD population is very low. They have less than 10 players online what I have seen. Constantly being overrun whatever they are trying to take. The best solution is if more players play AD but faction lock. Remove the lock in order to have a fair number of players to help low population faction.

BetweenMidgets

It was great fun for DC last night in BR. Pop locked AND low pop going, while another faction was only 2 bar with no low pop.

Functioning as intended.

ProudMary

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

It was great fun for DC last night in BR. Pop locked AND low pop going, while another faction was only 2 bar with no low pop.

Functioning as intended.

Yep. The low pop algorithm doesn't work properly with pop caps as low as they are now. ZOS should have made adjustments with every instance they've lowered the population caps.

Necrotech_Master

ProudMary wrote: »

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

It was great fun for DC last night in BR. Pop locked AND low pop going, while another faction was only 2 bar with no low pop.

Functioning as intended.

Yep. The low pop algorithm doesn't work properly with pop caps as low as they are now. ZOS should have made adjustments with every instance they've lowered the population caps.

i dont think its that they dont work correctly, its that they are extremely delayed and not dynamically updating in real time

based on what ive seen about them, is that it takes a few hours for it to even start getting a low pop bonus, and then it takes a few hours for it to remove the low pop bonus when its no longer low pop

meanwhile the actual zone pop could jump from 1 to 3 bars in a matter of minutes due to how low the pop caps are, but since its not dynamically adjusting (i think it only checks this when it does the score evals, which would be once an hour)

afkpro

i think if they were able to do something about it, it would have already been done much like how the combat bug would have been fixed if it could. i also think the issue is much larger than low pop bonus not being perfect.

cyro is just an outdated pvp design. large scale pvp is extremely difficult to balance when you consider the human element that wants to always win often leading to doing whatever it takes. staying up to nightcap. faction changing. staying out of cyro to keep low pop bonus while the other two factions are focused on each other (in gray host lol). add on that the competition lasts for 30 long days. if zos did anything right, it's providing a war of attrition-like simulation. oh and also providing organized raid groups that are nearly unstoppable with a pvp playground.

UnabashedlyHonest

It's happening again. AD is moving up and holding a higher place in the rankings due largely in part to the low pop bonus. We are winning by not playing.

Thrasher91604

Well if people want a fair fight, stop flocking to the highest pop faction.

Jamie_Aubrey

Dunno how it works on NA but maybe don't night/morning cap when 1 or 2 factions are not on and take the whole map, on EU DC nightcap, EP morning cap so they leave AD with 0 points for about 15 hours until AD log on and start taking things back but by that time it's prime time

CGPsaint

Alliance change tokens were one of the absolute worst additions to the game. AD on Xbox/NA is pretty much non-existent right now, and those of us trying just get completely zerged down by EP/DC the second we make a move.

Delphinia

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

Well if people want a fair fight, stop flocking to the highest pop faction.

Agreed Thrash. Unfortunately, gone are the days when people actually tried to have equal and fair fights. For some, that was never even in their playbook.

However, I remember leads who took groups elsewhere on the map if they saw another guild already embroiled in a battle. Now, it seems they want easy wins at whatever the cost. Players who complain about AD getting something they "earned", but never a peep when they received the same benefit. Perhaps the pop calculations are "broken". But, where was the uproar when other factions were getting the bonus? I'm not sure I remember anyone being quite as vocal. Perhaps, but it wasn't to the degree it's been. The reason is, the rules they play by here "rules for thee and not for me".

Another example of this is there is a certain player who gets their faction and blobs the entire map. Was on red, now on blue. This player did the same on another faction years ago. Yet when the other two factions decided enough was enough, and started focusing that faction, this player begged everyone to stop. Then proceeded to try and garner sympathy. Now, they are on a different faction doing the same thing. This person did not learn from history.

As long as it's benefiting the faction you are on. Be silent. If it benefits another faction, scream.

Cyrodiil is and probably always has been, a two faction war and the two factions working together change depending on who is on at the time. It is very rarely ever a decision based on logic, but rather one of emotion and past grudges. But, as they've learned, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and the faction who has the most players on at any given time and the one who can make "deals" with the other faction, wins the camp. Not that there is much of a reward.

In about 8 years of playing, nothing has changed. In fact, it's gotten worse. Taking numerous breaks expecting to come back to a better field, does nothing. Poor sportsmanship, drama, toxic behavior, denial, blame, complaints, mental and emotional immaturity, etc, are ever constant. Yet, here I am. I know nothing will change on a player standpoint. People are just that, people. Hiding behind their little characters. Trying to validate themselves.

For now, the biggest and most important question remains. Will I ever be able to use my mount in Cyrodiil again?

ProudMary

Delphinia wrote: »

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

Well if people want a fair fight, stop flocking to the highest pop faction.

Agreed Thrash. Unfortunately, gone are the days when people actually tried to have equal and fair fights. For some, that was never even in their playbook.

However, I remember leads who took groups elsewhere on the map if they saw another guild already embroiled in a battle. Now, it seems they want easy wins at whatever the cost. Players who complain about AD getting something they "earned", but never a peep when they received the same benefit. Perhaps the pop calculations are "broken". But, where was the uproar when other factions were getting the bonus? I'm not sure I remember anyone being quite as vocal. Perhaps, but it wasn't to the degree it's been. The reason is, the rules they play by here "rules for thee and not for me".

Another example of this is there is a certain player who gets their faction and blobs the entire map. Was on red, now on blue. This player did the same on another faction years ago. Yet when the other two factions decided enough was enough, and started focusing that faction, this player begged everyone to stop. Then proceeded to try and garner sympathy. Now, they are on a different faction doing the same thing. This person did not learn from history.

As long as it's benefiting the faction you are on. Be silent. If it benefits another faction, scream.

Cyrodiil is and probably always has been, a two faction war and the two factions working together change depending on who is on at the time. It is very rarely ever a decision based on logic, but rather one of emotion and past grudges. But, as they've learned, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and the faction who has the most players on at any given time and the one who can make "deals" with the other faction, wins the camp. Not that there is much of a reward.

In about 8 years of playing, nothing has changed. In fact, it's gotten worse. Taking numerous breaks expecting to come back to a better field, does nothing. Poor sportsmanship, drama, toxic behavior, denial, blame, complaints, mental and emotional immaturity, etc, are ever constant. Yet, here I am. I know nothing will change on a player standpoint. People are just that, people. Hiding behind their little characters. Trying to validate themselves.

For now, the biggest and most important question remains. Will I ever be able to use my mount in Cyrodiil again?

Population caps of 80-100 force faction stacking to achieve alliance war related goals in most respects. That's the reason the problem is so much amplified today as opposed to when faction pop caps were 250-400/faction.

heng14rwb17_ESO

AD is the best

KiltMaster

I know someone who plays on AD in Grey Host (PC/NA) and they said a few mins before the score is about to be ticked for the hour, they all enter a delve so they get low pop bonus as delves are technically different zones and thus their pop goes low.

kiiiiiinda seems like an exploit at that point, no?

SimonThesis

Can't even get AD to all go to the same keep, let alone all log off or go into a delve. Ya'll give AD too much credit lol, AD was getting low pop bonuses because other factions day cap while everyone's at work. Also doesn't help that many people have either moved to the highest pop faction or quit the game due to a lack of bug fixes and new content in pvp.

RevJJ

SimonThesis wrote: »

Can't even get AD to all go to the same keep, let alone all log off or go into a delve. Ya'll give AD too much credit lol, AD was getting low pop bonuses because other factions day cap while everyone's at work. Also doesn't help that many people have either moved to the highest pop faction or quit the game due to a lack of bug fixes and new content in pvp.

Right! Plus, low pop isn’t something that pops up five mins after having less players.

No, the reason AD has low pop more than other factions on PC NA GH is very simple… There are less people playing AD than the other factions

KiltMaster

Hey I'm just pointing out what someone who plays the faction told me

Delphinia

“My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Ferris pass-out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.”

malbaboeb17_ESO

How about zero points, half of the total points and not even "low score bonus"? How does that one even work?!? Does anyone have an idea how those bonus work?!

disintegr8

I've seen very few bonuses in any campaign I've gone into while the event has been running. As soon as one pops up, seems that's when that faction gets on and pushes.

vsrs_au

Is the thread title accurate? 8 hours/day for 5 days/week is 40 hours, just under 1/4 of the week. That doesn't sound like an excessively long time to me. I'm not trying to provoke anyone, I just honestly don't understand what the problem is here.

xylena_lazarow

RevJJ wrote: »

No, the reason AD has low pop more than other factions on PC NA GH is very simple… There are less people playing AD than the other factions

There's also a feedback loop in which the problem snowballs. The lowest pop faction is the easiest target, so the other two ignore each other and pick on the lowest pop faction, which leads to even more of them logging out...

Really there needs to be massive incentive to attack the strong high pop faction. Give double AP for kills and captures against the 1st place faction or something, I don't know.

SaffronCitrusflower

The population imbalance hasn't existed during the MYM event, but I'd guess it will return once the event is over.

I agree strongly with Xylena. Instead of giving the low pop faction such huge bonuses, the incentives should be given to fighting against the first place faction. The ganging up on the last place faction kills morale and motivation to play. It makes more sense to give a bonus for hitting the strongest faction.

Delphinia

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The population imbalance hasn't existed during the MYM event, but I'd guess it will return once the event is over.

I agree strongly with Xylena. Instead of giving the low pop faction such huge bonuses, the incentives should be given to fighting against the first place faction. The ganging up on the last place faction kills morale and motivation to play. It makes more sense to give a bonus for hitting the strongest faction.

I love both of these suggestions.
The only potential issue I see, is that players (who have more than one account) may manipulate those numbers by logging into that alt account on the opposing faction to boost that faction's population numbers.
However, the two weaker factions teaming up and fighting against the strongest faction, when that faction is in first place, does make sense. This, as many of us know, is not always the case. Thus, the bonuses you suggest for attacking the first place should help incentivize players to do so.

Necrotech_Master

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RevJJ wrote: »

No, the reason AD has low pop more than other factions on PC NA GH is very simple… There are less people playing AD than the other factions

There's also a feedback loop in which the problem snowballs. The lowest pop faction is the easiest target, so the other two ignore each other and pick on the lowest pop faction, which leads to even more of them logging out...

Really there needs to be massive incentive to attack the strong high pop faction. Give double AP for kills and captures against the 1st place faction or something, I don't know.

i think this sounds like an interesting idea

this would actually encourage the scores to be a lot closer, since you get points based on what you own at eval, and if the leader faction is gated before eval they lose the potential points, reducing their score gain and allowing the other factions to catch up

if you made the bonus too high though, like double ap for capping that factions objectives would make it hell on that leading faction, but if its a real competitive environment some might like that kind of constant pressure

SeaGtGruff

Minnesinger wrote: »

To be fair, AD population is very low. They have less than 10 players online what I have seen. Constantly being overrun whatever they are trying to take. The best solution is if more players play AD but faction lock. Remove the lock in order to have a fair number of players to help low population faction.

Huh? Less than 10 players? When I'm, it seems like AD is usually both high-pop and well-organized.

Same with EP. It seems like DC is almost always at a disadvantage.

Might be the hours I'm on, because it does seem like each faction has different times of day when their pops are heaviest.

ProudMary

It happened again today. In a 5 hour time frame AD went from 400 points down and in third place, to 400 points up and in second place.

This is totally out of hand and ridiculous. AD wins by not logging on, assuming they're not doing something to tweak the low pop bonus somehow. It's just so reliable and consistent that AD gets low pop bonus something is either broken or they are exploiting the system somehow.

amadeus001

Why have developers not address this over the years? Why has the map not changed? Make it a two faction war and publish faction hours played.

antihero727

KiltMaster wrote: »

I know someone who plays on AD in Grey Host (PC/NA) and they said a few mins before the score is about to be ticked for the hour, they all enter a delve so they get low pop bonus as delves are technically different zones and thus their pop goes low.

kiiiiiinda seems like an exploit at that point, no?

That’s not how the low pop bonus works. It has to be a longer time of low pop to get the bonus. Either the person doing it is dumb or you are making a little yellow lie.