Add bonus AP in Cyrodiil while PvE events

ZDunlain

In all PvE events there are always %EXP bonus, why not a small bonus in AP?
I mean, not a 200%, just 25% or 50% or more AP when you take keeps, just to encourage people to play PvP a bit and also giving PvP players a small bonus or something different and not only the same event twice a year (this year is super delayed ).

Xarc

No

No.

ZDunlain

Yes

Xarc wrote: »

No.

Why?

Lumenn

Yes

Cyrodiil could use some love. "Chaosball weekend" and "Deatmatch weekend" are great but throw some love to cyro too

Amottica

No

We have PvE events and PvP events. PvE events have bonuses to PvE while PvP events have bonuses to PvP. It makes sense. I do not recall a bonus being added to PvE while a PvP event was going on.

ZDunlain

Yes

Lumenn wrote: »

Cyrodiil could use some love. "Chaosball weekend" and "Deatmatch weekend" are great but throw some love to cyro too

That is what I think, those bg weekends are nice to have, but being honest, the same mode all the time sometimes tends to be boring. Cyro needs a bit of love!

React

Yes

Amottica wrote: »

We have PvE events and PvP events. PvE events have bonuses to PvE while PvP events have bonuses to PvP. It makes sense. I do not recall a bonus being added to PvE while a PvP event was going on.

Well the last two PVP events got cancelled in favor of PVE events. The bonus EXP for the community completion of the deadlands achievement took the place of the 2022 telvar event, and the recent explorer's event was in the timeslot where WSM was supposed to be.

PVP hasn't received new content in four years. We get 3 events per year, which are now being cancelled or postponed indefinitely. How would extra incentives to be in cyrodiil affect you, personally? Is there some reason why that would be detrimental to your experience?

WuffyCerulei

Yes

I'd say a smaller bonus, maybe 40% extra AP during non-PVP events, barring the Anniversary event. Excluding that event as it would not incentivize ganking questers in towns like jerks even more. But pvpers already have events!!" Yeah, two a year. And it'll most likely be 1 this year due to the cancelled Whitestrake's Mayhem event. Pvers legit get every other events, except IC event. Even then, pvers can do WGT or ICP to get their event tickets. Pvers get like 5-6 guaranteed events each year, PLUS several celebration events for various zones.

ZDunlain

Yes

Amottica wrote: »

We have PvE events and PvP events. PvE events have bonuses to PvE while PvP events have bonuses to PvP. It makes sense. I do not recall a bonus being added to PvE while a PvP event was going on.

That is right, but sometimes those events for PvP feel not enough and more since the "events" they are adding is bg weekend, I think this is because they need to upgrade servers first to give us more PvP events.

It could be nice to have weekend events like bg but for Cyro if not adding more PvP big events like mym.

Xarc

No

ZDunlain wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

No.

Why?

No because we have AP players I mean pvp players who like PVE events, so you'll make frustration when people will have to choose between XP and AP

The point of an AP event like Pelinal Mayhem is to fill pvp servers with many PVE boys&girls who jump into the battle with many and get huge fights. If you have a AP+XP event many of them wont join pvp servers so it will be reserved to an elite (without huge fights) of pvp players which isnt the goal of this game.

ZDunlain

Yes

Xarc wrote: »

No because we have AP players I mean pvp players who like PVE events, so you'll make frustration when people will have to choose between XP and AP

The point for AP event like Pelinal Mayhem is to fill pvp servers with many PVE boys&girls who jump into the battle. If you have a AP+XP event many of them wont join pvp servers so it will be reserved to an elite of pvp players which isnt the goal of this game.

So if it "frustrate" people, it could be nice to just add more PvP events, the point is the lack of PvP events, no matter how the content comes, at the same time of PvE events or adding new PvP events.

Xarc

No

Yes, on EU megaserver we missed last PVP event, so I understand your frustration.

But Zenimax explained why they did it and also said they still want 2 mayhem events so we'll just play it later.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/626586/status-on-hardware-refresh-whitestrake-s-mayhem-event-january-2023/p1

Amottica

No

React wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

We have PvE events and PvP events. PvE events have bonuses to PvE while PvP events have bonuses to PvP. It makes sense. I do not recall a bonus being added to PvE while a PvP event was going on.

Well the last two PVP events got cancelled in favor of PVE events. The bonus EXP for the community completion of the deadlands achievement took the place of the 2022 telvar event, and the recent explorer's event was in the timeslot where WSM was supposed to be.

PVP hasn't received new content in four years. We get 3 events per year, which are now being cancelled or postponed indefinitely. How would extra incentives to be in cyrodiil affect you, personally? Is there some reason why that would be detrimental to your experience?

Were they canceled because Zenimax wanted to do a PvE event instead or for another reason?

Also, when PvP has received new content is not relevant to events. I guess they could add a new battlefield to BG every other year and call it done. Regardless, when it comes to that welcome to a game with a PVE focus. I recall a certain stream a couple of years ago where someone very close to a top dev put things into perspective. I expect anyone that is serious about PvP and plays ESo remember that.

Kavar162

Another suggestion

I have always wanted them to do just more double ap and double telvar events outside of Mayhem. Weekend events, just like the ones for BGs. We already see that its easy for them to do and if they did it without adding the whole event ticket thing, it would just increase the pop of all servers rather than absolutely flood/lock them with a 2 hour queue.

On any given weekend where nothing is on the schedule they could just say hey all, friday through monday earn 50% more telvar from monster and boss kills in IC. Or double ap from all sources while in cyrodiil for the weekend. Simple, easy to implement and would get people in pvp zones.

React

Yes

Amottica wrote: »

React wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

We have PvE events and PvP events. PvE events have bonuses to PvE while PvP events have bonuses to PvP. It makes sense. I do not recall a bonus being added to PvE while a PvP event was going on.

Well the last two PVP events got cancelled in favor of PVE events. The bonus EXP for the community completion of the deadlands achievement took the place of the 2022 telvar event, and the recent explorer's event was in the timeslot where WSM was supposed to be.

PVP hasn't received new content in four years. We get 3 events per year, which are now being cancelled or postponed indefinitely. How would extra incentives to be in cyrodiil affect you, personally? Is there some reason why that would be detrimental to your experience?

Were they canceled because Zenimax wanted to do a PvE event instead or for another reason?

Also, when PvP has received new content is not relevant to events. I guess they could add a new battlefield to BG every other year and call it done. Regardless, when it comes to that welcome to a game with a PVE focus. I recall a certain stream a couple of years ago where someone very close to a top dev put things into perspective. I expect anyone that is serious about PvP and plays ESo remember that.

While I appreciate you reminding me to "stay in your place, pvper", you didn't actually answer my question.

Is there a reason that extra incentives to be in cyrodiil/IC would be a detriment your personal experience?

Xarc

No

Kavar162 wrote: »

I have always wanted them to do just more double ap and double telvar events outside of Mayhem. Weekend events, just like the ones for BGs. We already see that its easy for them to do and if they did it without adding the whole event ticket thing, it would just increase the pop of all servers rather than absolutely flood/lock them with a 2 hour queue.

We got a special double-ap Event when zenimax tested a way to reduce lag in 2021 about AOE and skill delay.

kargen27

No

Events are created to bring us back to existing content. The rewards are there to provide incentive. Best to keep PvP and PvE centered events separate. If you give an AP bonus during a PvE centered event then players will want an XP bonus during PvP events. The idea is to get players participating in PvP with the PvP events not reward them for skipping the event.

Would be nice if the explorer's celebration included AP though since it basically is just a reward for playing how you would anyway.

ZDunlain

Yes

Xarc wrote: »

Kavar162 wrote: »

I have always wanted them to do just more double ap and double telvar events outside of Mayhem. Weekend events, just like the ones for BGs. We already see that its easy for them to do and if they did it without adding the whole event ticket thing, it would just increase the pop of all servers rather than absolutely flood/lock them with a 2 hour queue.

We got a special double-ap Event when zenimax tested a way to reduce lag in 2021 about AOE and skill delay.

As you said, in 2021 and it happened once. We are in 2023 with a delayed mym in addition. That event was anecdotal.

ZDunlain

Yes

kargen27 wrote: »

Events are created to bring us back to existing content. The rewards are there to provide incentive. Best to keep PvP and PvE centered events separate. If you give an AP bonus during a PvE centered event then players will want an XP bonus during PvP events. The idea is to get players participating in PvP with the PvP events not reward them for skipping the event.

Would be nice if the explorer's celebration included AP though since it basically is just a reward for playing how you would anyway.

I see your point, another option would be add new PvP events and keep it sepparate. But lets see first when they bring us new servers (EU and consoles) and then see if PvP performance doesn't drop (imo the hard part).

Freelancer_ESO

Yes

I think AP has enough uses that having an AP boost event just for fun would not be problematic.

However, I would not recommend doing it with Tel Var just for fun or at least not with much frequency.

Necrotech_Master

Yes

i see no reason that this couldnt happen, even 25-50% bonus AP would be really nice

there are a lot of events that i just do the bare minimum to get tickets, and then basically ignore the event the rest of the time, though if it has double drops i usually do like to try to use that time to help finish farming a dungeon or trial

because they have decided that only the first event box each day has any chance worthwhile (or locked entirely) for the newer items, i have no reason to farm the other stuff (in the example of the upcoming jester event, i literally have no reason to even do more than 1 quest per day)

Lumsdenml

Yes

Until EVERY event has a PVP and PVE option, or we have an equal number of PVP and PVE events, give the PVP community SOMETHING...

tomofhyrule

I have no problem with adding double AP to Explorer's Celebration events and double Tel Var to the MYM events. We absolutely should have those.

The one caution I'd give is that I feel like there are a lot of primary PvP players who don't understand how much the casual community despises anything that puts them in conflict with others. We see this all the time whenever there's more than one PvP-centric endeavor (even PvE endeavors in PvP zones like 'do a quest in Bruma') are disliked. The pull of "double AP" won't really be enough to get casuals in to willingly (let's face it) let themselves get farmed by PKers for a currency that they really don't need in the first place. See here for a quote from another thread that gives more of this casual player mindset:

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it possible to get the event tickets by doing a scouting mission and one of the IC dailies? You can potentially see nobody at all doing the scouting mission and IC daily can be cheesed from the platforms.

That lets you get both dailies done with no PvP in the PvP zones.

There are players who consider even the potential of seeing enemy players as a trigger for anxiety. Yes, there are ways to get the tickets safely - you could get a scouting quest in one campaign and then campaign hop until you get to one where your alliance owns the objective. Yes, you could stand on the platform and snipe Dremora to set people free for the Arena district. But those aren't always guaranteed to work, and you are still leaving yourself open to getting attacked by enemy players, even as unlikely as it is.

There's a reason VaranisArano posts the "how to get your tickets safely" writeup every MYM with these hints. There's a reason we always see "we need a neutral alliance!" posts (which I disagree with).

It's hard for some people to imagine the mindset of a casual PvEr - even entering into Cyrodiil will make them panic, even though it's impossible to get killed while you're at your base. A lot of these casual PvErs think that an enemy player even looking at them is toxic. Most of us accept dying as a part of the game, but for people who don't PvP, it's more like a constant "YOU FAILED! YOU SUCK AT LIFE" flashing in their face every time they move. And in a place where they have potential to see that, they will not be having the least bit of fun. I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just a different way of looking at the game. Again, it's easier to get other PvP players from other games than it is to convert casual ESO PvErs into PvPers because it does take a completely different mindset.

It's also tough to do PvP solo, and a lot of the casual-type players have a very solo mindset. They're here for the Elder Scrolls experience, not the grouping. And any content that forces them to group... well, has anyone ever been burned by group projects in school that went badly?

I understand. I used to be one of those types of players when I first started. I eventually got over it and started to run around and relax a bit. I will say I don't primarily PvP, but I don't actively avoid PvP anymore. I even have done a few things that I thought I'd never do (Emp, some of the BG dyes, etc.). But it's also tough since a lot I have to do alone. Most of my friends run PvP while I'm at work (and on the wrong alliance anyway) so I tend to just zerg surf in Cyrodiil. But again, I do now have no issue going to do PvP outside of MYM now as well. I try to get T1s at least on my main and I'll got zerg surfing if there's a siege PvP endeavor, I went hard (maybe too hard) during the last BG weekend, and every time there's a Tel Var endeavor I'll go do my IC dailies and hope I don't see any groups.

If we, for example, made it so the Jester's Fest included 100% AP, that would... really not get that many casuals into Cyrodiil. They'll get their double XP from the pie and do the Jester quests, but they don't care about AP so the double AP won't get them in. We can already see this because you can get special boxes from Cyrodiil dailies during the Anniversary event, but there's not a giant influx of players into Cyrodiil during the Anniversary... because you can get that elsewhere as well.

So yes, by all means give double XP when we have double gold drops, or even some increased XP events. But don't expect that it'll turn every event into the farming event that is MYM. That might even start to spread out the AP opportunities so that MYM becomes even less of a farming opportunity.

And because this always comes up: the IC event was always envisioned as a "zone celebration" event, not a "you get double Tel Var" event. Nobody complained that we didn't have a Blackwood zone celebration event last year - there are a lot of zones so ZOS is not celebrating every zone every year. It just happens that the IC is the only zone with Tel Var, so that's why it felt like something major was getting taken away when it got left out one year. Now since the IC is included in MYM, it should 100% have double TV during MYM however.

Amottica

No

React wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

React wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

We have PvE events and PvP events. PvE events have bonuses to PvE while PvP events have bonuses to PvP. It makes sense. I do not recall a bonus being added to PvE while a PvP event was going on.

Well the last two PVP events got cancelled in favor of PVE events. The bonus EXP for the community completion of the deadlands achievement took the place of the 2022 telvar event, and the recent explorer's event was in the timeslot where WSM was supposed to be.

PVP hasn't received new content in four years. We get 3 events per year, which are now being cancelled or postponed indefinitely. How would extra incentives to be in cyrodiil affect you, personally? Is there some reason why that would be detrimental to your experience?

Were they canceled because Zenimax wanted to do a PvE event instead or for another reason?

Also, when PvP has received new content is not relevant to events. I guess they could add a new battlefield to BG every other year and call it done. Regardless, when it comes to that welcome to a game with a PVE focus. I recall a certain stream a couple of years ago where someone very close to a top dev put things into perspective. I expect anyone that is serious about PvP and plays ESo remember that.

While I appreciate you reminding me to "stay in your place, pvper", you didn't actually answer my question.

Is there a reason that extra incentives to be in cyrodiil/IC would be a detriment your personal experience?

Was not telling you to stay in your place. In fact, I am a serious enough PvP player I play another game for my PvP. I still PvP with friends in ESO but just go to a real PvP game for that source of entertainment.

But I did answer your question with a question. You made it sound like Zenimax was the one who told PvP players to stay in their place by choosing to ditch the PvP events for a PvE event. So it was appropriate to ask if that was the reason Zenimax made such a change as it affects the answer. Ofc, I know why they changed it. Just asking you.

TaSheen

Yes

Sure, why not? I don't pvp, so double AP isn't anything I care about (I do use AP for the occasional dawn-prism, but I don't need many).

Lumsdenml

Yes

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I have no problem with adding double AP to Explorer's Celebration events and double Tel Var to the MYM events. We absolutely should have those.

The one caution I'd give is that I feel like there are a lot of primary PvP players who don't understand how much the casual community despises anything that puts them in conflict with others. We see this all the time whenever there's more than one PvP-centric endeavor (even PvE endeavors in PvP zones like 'do a quest in Bruma') are disliked. The pull of "double AP" won't really be enough to get casuals in to willingly (let's face it) let themselves get farmed by PKers for a currency that they really don't need in the first place. See here for a quote from another thread that gives more of this casual player mindset:

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it possible to get the event tickets by doing a scouting mission and one of the IC dailies? You can potentially see nobody at all doing the scouting mission and IC daily can be cheesed from the platforms.

That lets you get both dailies done with no PvP in the PvP zones.

There are players who consider even the potential of seeing enemy players as a trigger for anxiety. Yes, there are ways to get the tickets safely - you could get a scouting quest in one campaign and then campaign hop until you get to one where your alliance owns the objective. Yes, you could stand on the platform and snipe Dremora to set people free for the Arena district. But those aren't always guaranteed to work, and you are still leaving yourself open to getting attacked by enemy players, even as unlikely as it is.

There's a reason VaranisArano posts the "how to get your tickets safely" writeup every MYM with these hints. There's a reason we always see "we need a neutral alliance!" posts (which I disagree with).

It's hard for some people to imagine the mindset of a casual PvEr - even entering into Cyrodiil will make them panic, even though it's impossible to get killed while you're at your base. A lot of these casual PvErs think that an enemy player even looking at them is toxic. Most of us accept dying as a part of the game, but for people who don't PvP, it's more like a constant "YOU FAILED! YOU SUCK AT LIFE" flashing in their face every time they move. And in a place where they have potential to see that, they will not be having the least bit of fun. I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just a different way of looking at the game. Again, it's easier to get other PvP players from other games than it is to convert casual ESO PvErs into PvPers because it does take a completely different mindset.

It's also tough to do PvP solo, and a lot of the casual-type players have a very solo mindset. They're here for the Elder Scrolls experience, not the grouping. And any content that forces them to group... well, has anyone ever been burned by group projects in school that went badly?

I understand. I used to be one of those types of players when I first started. I eventually got over it and started to run around and relax a bit. I will say I don't primarily PvP, but I don't actively avoid PvP anymore. I even have done a few things that I thought I'd never do (Emp, some of the BG dyes, etc.). But it's also tough since a lot I have to do alone. Most of my friends run PvP while I'm at work (and on the wrong alliance anyway) so I tend to just zerg surf in Cyrodiil. But again, I do now have no issue going to do PvP outside of MYM now as well. I try to get T1s at least on my main and I'll got zerg surfing if there's a siege PvP endeavor, I went hard (maybe too hard) during the last BG weekend, and every time there's a Tel Var endeavor I'll go do my IC dailies and hope I don't see any groups.

If we, for example, made it so the Jester's Fest included 100% AP, that would... really not get that many casuals into Cyrodiil. They'll get their double XP from the pie and do the Jester quests, but they don't care about AP so the double AP won't get them in. We can already see this because you can get special boxes from Cyrodiil dailies during the Anniversary event, but there's not a giant influx of players into Cyrodiil during the Anniversary... because you can get that elsewhere as well.

So yes, by all means give double XP when we have double gold drops, or even some increased XP events. But don't expect that it'll turn every event into the farming event that is MYM. That might even start to spread out the AP opportunities so that MYM becomes even less of a farming opportunity.

And because this always comes up: the IC event was always envisioned as a "zone celebration" event, not a "you get double Tel Var" event. Nobody complained that we didn't have a Blackwood zone celebration event last year - there are a lot of zones so ZOS is not celebrating every zone every year. It just happens that the IC is the only zone with Tel Var, so that's why it felt like something major was getting taken away when it got left out one year. Now since the IC is included in MYM, it should 100% have double TV during MYM however.

I'm going to play devil's advocate with this. There are PVP players who feel they would rather spend the next 10 hours banging their head against the wall than do a PVE event, however, they are forced to if they want to participate. And, let's be honest, the PVE events outnumber the PVP events 5:1. I think what the PVP community is asking for is 1) recognition 2) equality. We aren't asking for an event that forces people into PVP, we're asking for a way for us to participate using a playstyle that we prefer.

Lumenn

Yes

I'm honestly confused by anyone saying no. It doesn't take anything away from anyone else, it'll be a treat for those that play in cyro, and for those pve that absolutely loathe pvp, it's the best time to jump in and farm whatever you may need/want as it can shorten your time there.

To be fair, I personally would rather have double ap for all pvp(not just bgs) every weekend or at least twice a month. That way it wouldn't be a "rare" event that leaves me waiting 45 minutes in the que.

Dragonlord573

Yes

PvP players hardly get even a bone thrown their way. The bare minimum that ZOS could do is give them something even if it is just an AP boost.

"Er PvE events are for PvE, they should have to play PvE." Yeah well, y'all will complain when the PvP event comes around and demand PvP players stop attacking PvE players cause you don't want to PvP in a PvP event.

bmnoble

Another suggestion

Got no issue with it but think it would also be a nice option if people can earn there event tickets in either PVP or PVE content regardless of the event type.

spartaxoxo

Another suggestion

The thing that makes the IC and MYM special are the bonuses. Beyond that, I think having different types of events encourages people to try different content.

They could possibly however maybe add a special event for dueling.

Amottica

No

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The thing that makes the IC and MYM special are the bonuses. Beyond that, I think having different types of events encourages people to try different content.

They could possibly however maybe add a special event for dueling.

+1