How to maximize a pure Frost theme Magic Warden?

ArchMikem

I have an Argonian MagWarden that I've been adamant about keeping to a pure Frost damage theme. The only exception I use is Fetcher Infection for that damage taken debuff, otherwise it's Frost Reach, Unstable Wall of Frost, Winter's Revenge, Northern Storm etc. To complement all that I wear Frostbite and Ysgramor's to buff Frost damage as much as possible, but in the end it always comes down to how often you Crit and how hard. This build has very little Crit chance and even my base Spell Damage isn't on par with my Stam characters or MagSorc. It just seems like if you try to build toward a theme you're going to struggle. Should I just abandon the gear theme and build for full Crit?

WrathOfInnos

If this is for PVE, your best sets are going to be Frostbite and (perfect) Whorl of the Depths. Add 1 piece Slimecraw and either Harpooner's Wading Kilt or Mora's Whispers for crit. Also use the Thief mundus stone with all divines.

For single target you go Master's Perfect Ice Staff front bar, and the Depths 5-piece is completed with a back bar Ice Staff. Spammable is Frost Reach to proc the 600 Spell Damage on the Master Staff. You'll really want to break the frost only rule to slot Wild Guardian, Subterranean Assault, and as you pointed out Fetcher. Even with these, Frostbite is an excellent set.

For area damage it is Depths Ice Staff front bar and Perfect Maelstrom Ice Staff back bar with Blockade. Front bar spammable is Pulsar or Elemental Ring. Depending how quickly the enemies die, you may consider swapping Whorl to Sul-Xan here. Northern Storm is ok, but Frost Comet or Icy Rage are better damage.

Charged trait front bar seems to be best, but Precise is close if you want more crit. Back bar weapon should be infused to maximize the Berserker/Weapon Damage enchant.

ESO_Nightingale

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

If this is for PVE, your best sets are going to be Frostbite and (perfect) Whorl of the Depths. Add 1 piece Slimecraw and either Harpooner's Wading Kilt or Mora's Whispers for crit. Also use the Thief mundus stone with all divines.

For single target you go Master's Perfect Ice Staff front bar, and the Depths 5-piece is completed with a back bar Ice Staff. Spammable is Frost Reach to proc the 600 Spell Damage on the Master Staff. You'll really want to break the frost only rule to slot Wild Guardian, Subterranean Assault, and as you pointed out Fetcher. Even with these, Frostbite is an excellent set.

For area damage it is Depths Ice Staff front bar and Perfect Maelstrom Ice Staff back bar with Blockade. Front bar spammable is Pulsar or Elemental Ring. Depending how quickly the enemies die, you may consider swapping Whorl to Sul-Xan here. Northern Storm is ok, but Frost Comet or Icy Rage are better damage.

Charged trait front bar seems to be best, but Precise is close if you want more crit. Back bar weapon should be infused to maximize the Berserker/Weapon Damage enchant.

charged is too powerful. you want to proc chilled as much as possible because it makes up so much of your damage. also makes your arctic blast have a 100% chilled proc rate as well as making frost pulsar near guarenteed.

Faulgor

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

If this is for PVE, your best sets are going to be Frostbite and (perfect) Whorl of the Depths. Add 1 piece Slimecraw and either Harpooner's Wading Kilt or Mora's Whispers for crit. Also use the Thief mundus stone with all divines.

For single target you go Master's Perfect Ice Staff front bar, and the Depths 5-piece is completed with a back bar Ice Staff. Spammable is Frost Reach to proc the 600 Spell Damage on the Master Staff. You'll really want to break the frost only rule to slot Wild Guardian, Subterranean Assault, and as you pointed out Fetcher. Even with these, Frostbite is an excellent set.

For area damage it is Depths Ice Staff front bar and Perfect Maelstrom Ice Staff back bar with Blockade. Front bar spammable is Pulsar or Elemental Ring. Depending how quickly the enemies die, you may consider swapping Whorl to Sul-Xan here. Northern Storm is ok, but Frost Comet or Icy Rage are better damage.

Charged trait front bar seems to be best, but Precise is close if you want more crit. Back bar weapon should be infused to maximize the Berserker/Weapon Damage enchant.

charged is too powerful. you want to proc chilled as much as possible because it makes up so much of your damage. also makes your arctic blast have a 100% chilled proc rate as well as making frost pulsar near guarenteed.

Did anyone try Heartland Conqueror on a frost warden to buff charged even further? I still use it on my shock Sorc to decent effect. I wouldn't expect it to perform as well as a trial set, but it could still be interesting.

ArchMikem

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

If this is for PVE, your best sets are going to be Frostbite and (perfect) Whorl of the Depths. Add 1 piece Slimecraw and either Harpooner's Wading Kilt or Mora's Whispers for crit. Also use the Thief mundus stone with all divines.

For single target you go Master's Perfect Ice Staff front bar, and the Depths 5-piece is completed with a back bar Ice Staff. Spammable is Frost Reach to proc the 600 Spell Damage on the Master Staff. You'll really want to break the frost only rule to slot Wild Guardian, Subterranean Assault, and as you pointed out Fetcher. Even with these, Frostbite is an excellent set.

For area damage it is Depths Ice Staff front bar and Perfect Maelstrom Ice Staff back bar with Blockade. Front bar spammable is Pulsar or Elemental Ring. Depending how quickly the enemies die, you may consider swapping Whorl to Sul-Xan here. Northern Storm is ok, but Frost Comet or Icy Rage are better damage.

Charged trait front bar seems to be best, but Precise is close if you want more crit. Back bar weapon should be infused to maximize the Berserker/Weapon Damage enchant.

charged is too powerful. you want to proc chilled as much as possible because it makes up so much of your damage. also makes your arctic blast have a 100% chilled proc rate as well as making frost pulsar near guarenteed.

I seem to have developed a bad habit of making all of my front bar weapons nirnhoned, to get as high a base damage as possible. Seeing the number is like a psychological impact as well. I don't fully understand the charged trait, could you explain a little more what the buff makes happen?

Turtle_Bot

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

If this is for PVE, your best sets are going to be Frostbite and (perfect) Whorl of the Depths. Add 1 piece Slimecraw and either Harpooner's Wading Kilt or Mora's Whispers for crit. Also use the Thief mundus stone with all divines.

For single target you go Master's Perfect Ice Staff front bar, and the Depths 5-piece is completed with a back bar Ice Staff. Spammable is Frost Reach to proc the 600 Spell Damage on the Master Staff. You'll really want to break the frost only rule to slot Wild Guardian, Subterranean Assault, and as you pointed out Fetcher. Even with these, Frostbite is an excellent set.

For area damage it is Depths Ice Staff front bar and Perfect Maelstrom Ice Staff back bar with Blockade. Front bar spammable is Pulsar or Elemental Ring. Depending how quickly the enemies die, you may consider swapping Whorl to Sul-Xan here. Northern Storm is ok, but Frost Comet or Icy Rage are better damage.

Charged trait front bar seems to be best, but Precise is close if you want more crit. Back bar weapon should be infused to maximize the Berserker/Weapon Damage enchant.

charged is too powerful. you want to proc chilled as much as possible because it makes up so much of your damage. also makes your arctic blast have a 100% chilled proc rate as well as making frost pulsar near guarenteed.

I seem to have developed a bad habit of making all of my front bar weapons nirnhoned, to get as high a base damage as possible. Seeing the number is like a psychological impact as well. I don't fully understand the charged trait, could you explain a little more what the buff makes happen?

Charged trait increases the chance for to inflict status effects.

Status name (damage type) what the status does:

Burn (flame) is a DoT
Concussed (shock) inflicts damage and minor vulnerability (increase damage taken)
Chilled (frost) inflicts damage and brittle (increased crit damage taken)
Poisoned (poison) is a DoT
Diseased (disease) inflicts defile (reduces healing)
Hemorrhage (bleed) inflicts a DoT and mangle (reduces max health)
Overcharged (magic) inflicts minor magicka steal
Sundered (physical) inflicts minor breach (reduces armor).

Running charged trait allows for higher uptime on these statuses which can potentially add a decent amount of damage (and sustain for DK).

Edit: For example as a warden, you would have a higher chance of inflicting chilled status which deals additional damage when the status procs as well as inflicting the brittle debuff that increases the amount of crit damage the target takes.

Auldwulfe

My Imperial Frost Warden isn't fully kitted out, but I am looking at Frostbite, plus The Ice Furnace for my Jewelry and Weapons ...
I use the 5 piece bonus on light armor to boost my crit, and with Frostbite being light armor, that is best for my armor slots
I am thinking of Slime Craw as my monster set, as it does a crit boost, as well as 5% damage boost, but in medium, 4% damage boost, and the medium armor helps with it's passives, and the undaunted ones
Finally, I use Thief Mundus for that boost, and the armor is divines.... and I have considered the Mage guild, or fighter guild boost ... probably fighter's camouflaged hunter, as I don't need empower, so much, as I would like the extra 3% damage from the fighters guild, and faster ultimate generation.

Yes, Ice Furnace does fire damage bust, as well as ice... but it's a second status effect chance, and I am also running Occult Overload.... so any additional help with the burst.... and I just view it as "so cold it burns"

Auldwulfe

FrancisCrawford

Is medium armor ever better than light if you aren't near the penetration cap?

Auldwulfe

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Is medium armor ever better than light if you aren't near the penetration cap?

That's a tough one, I like to have at least 2 types of armor, to make my undaunted passive have some value .... and 2 pieces of medium adds in 4% damage bonus....
I seem to do a little better with it, but your mileage may vary.....
I tend to play Imperials, so I don't get a passive weapon or spell bonus, I just get slightly cheaper skills, and a bit of toughness, that helps me muscle through, in some situations.

Auldwulfe

ESO_Nightingale

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

If this is for PVE, your best sets are going to be Frostbite and (perfect) Whorl of the Depths. Add 1 piece Slimecraw and either Harpooner's Wading Kilt or Mora's Whispers for crit. Also use the Thief mundus stone with all divines.

For single target you go Master's Perfect Ice Staff front bar, and the Depths 5-piece is completed with a back bar Ice Staff. Spammable is Frost Reach to proc the 600 Spell Damage on the Master Staff. You'll really want to break the frost only rule to slot Wild Guardian, Subterranean Assault, and as you pointed out Fetcher. Even with these, Frostbite is an excellent set.

For area damage it is Depths Ice Staff front bar and Perfect Maelstrom Ice Staff back bar with Blockade. Front bar spammable is Pulsar or Elemental Ring. Depending how quickly the enemies die, you may consider swapping Whorl to Sul-Xan here. Northern Storm is ok, but Frost Comet or Icy Rage are better damage.

Charged trait front bar seems to be best, but Precise is close if you want more crit. Back bar weapon should be infused to maximize the Berserker/Weapon Damage enchant.

charged is too powerful. you want to proc chilled as much as possible because it makes up so much of your damage. also makes your arctic blast have a 100% chilled proc rate as well as making frost pulsar near guarenteed.

I seem to have developed a bad habit of making all of my front bar weapons nirnhoned, to get as high a base damage as possible. Seeing the number is like a psychological impact as well. I don't fully understand the charged trait, could you explain a little more what the buff makes happen?

Charged trait increases the chance for to inflict status effects.

Status name (damage type) what the status does:

Burn (flame) is a DoT
Concussed (shock) inflicts damage and minor vulnerability (increase damage taken)
Chilled (frost) inflicts damage and brittle (increased crit damage taken)
Poisoned (poison) is a DoT
Diseased (disease) inflicts defile (reduces healing)
Hemorrhage (bleed) inflicts a DoT and mangle (reduces max health)
Overcharged (magic) inflicts minor magicka steal
Sundered (physical) inflicts minor breach (reduces armor).

Running charged trait allows for higher uptime on these statuses which can potentially add a decent amount of damage (and sustain for DK).

Edit: For example as a warden, you would have a higher chance of inflicting chilled status which deals additional damage when the status procs as well as inflicting the brittle debuff that increases the amount of crit damage the target takes.

Exactly this. You also want at least 1 reliable source of poisoned, burning and bleed. Poisoned is easy to get from an enchant on the front bar, burning can be gotten from elemental susceptibility and zaan procs if you run that and bleed is applied on cooldown by any wild guardian attacks. Then chilled proc is basically from frost reach, winter's revenge, arctic blast, elemental susceptibility, frost pulsar in aoe and occasionally unstable wall of frost. The reason why you want all of these other statuses is because while these are ticking over time from occasional application, you can devote more of your kit into chilled procs which is more damage per second than constantly applying one of the other 3 due to the burst. Theres no cooldown on status effect procs so you want as many sources as possible. Some abilities with charged bonuses already have 100% proc rate for chilled. So building more proc rate will have diminishing returns, what we'd need going forward is more sources of chilled. It's important to remember that a significant proportion of frost warden's damage comes from status effect procs so you can't skip out on them. If you're just playing a frost build in pve dungeons for fun then you don't need to build into poisoned or burning, but bleed is still so free from barbed trap and wild guardian.

ArchMikem

Some edits I've made is swapping the Apprentice for the Thief and a Sharpened staff for Precise, giving me 51% crit chance. Accelerate on the back bar, a CP buff, and Fetcher on the front bar gives me 12% Crit damage. Thing is, it still doesn't seem like I'm Critting as much as 50% of the time sounds like, and I don't like having my Spell Dmg so low, after just losing 3000+ Pen.

Is Ysgramor's even worth it? Or should I consider other sets like Mothers Sorrow, Julianos, Spinners, Orders Wrath etc. Just sucks cause my Ysgramors rings are gold.

I now have Orders Wrath instead of Ysgramors. 30% Crit Dmg fully buffed with 58.6% Crit chance. Ohhhh not having a flat 60% is going to annoy me so much.

ESO_Nightingale

ArchMikem wrote: »

Some edits I've made is swapping the Apprentice for the Thief and a Sharpened staff for Precise, giving me 51% crit chance. Accelerate on the back bar, a CP buff, and Fetcher on the front bar gives me 12% Crit damage. Thing is, it still doesn't seem like I'm Critting as much as 50% of the time sounds like, and I don't like having my Spell Dmg so low, after just losing 3000+ Pen.

Is Ysgramor's even worth it? Or should I consider other sets like Mothers Sorrow, Julianos, Spinners, Orders Wrath etc. Just sucks cause my Ysgramors rings are gold.

I now have Orders Wrath instead of Ysgramors. 30% Crit Dmg fully buffed with 58.6% Crit chance. Ohhhh not having a flat 60% is going to annoy me so much.

Ysgram is awful. Dps should be higher with charged instead of precise. Your crit chance is naturally lower than other classes anyway.

ArchMikem

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Some edits I've made is swapping the Apprentice for the Thief and a Sharpened staff for Precise, giving me 51% crit chance. Accelerate on the back bar, a CP buff, and Fetcher on the front bar gives me 12% Crit damage. Thing is, it still doesn't seem like I'm Critting as much as 50% of the time sounds like, and I don't like having my Spell Dmg so low, after just losing 3000+ Pen.

Is Ysgramor's even worth it? Or should I consider other sets like Mothers Sorrow, Julianos, Spinners, Orders Wrath etc. Just sucks cause my Ysgramors rings are gold.

I now have Orders Wrath instead of Ysgramors. 30% Crit Dmg fully buffed with 58.6% Crit chance. Ohhhh not having a flat 60% is going to annoy me so much.

Ysgram is awful. Dps should be higher with charged instead of precise. Your crit chance is naturally lower than other classes anyway.

I think you're right, without Precise my Crit Chance should still be above 50% anyway and if switching to Charged really will have a noticeable effect I'll go ahead and try that out. What second set would you recommend with Frostbite though? Other than Order's.

ESO_Nightingale

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Some edits I've made is swapping the Apprentice for the Thief and a Sharpened staff for Precise, giving me 51% crit chance. Accelerate on the back bar, a CP buff, and Fetcher on the front bar gives me 12% Crit damage. Thing is, it still doesn't seem like I'm Critting as much as 50% of the time sounds like, and I don't like having my Spell Dmg so low, after just losing 3000+ Pen.

Is Ysgramor's even worth it? Or should I consider other sets like Mothers Sorrow, Julianos, Spinners, Orders Wrath etc. Just sucks cause my Ysgramors rings are gold.

I now have Orders Wrath instead of Ysgramors. 30% Crit Dmg fully buffed with 58.6% Crit chance. Ohhhh not having a flat 60% is going to annoy me so much.

Ysgram is awful. Dps should be higher with charged instead of precise. Your crit chance is naturally lower than other classes anyway.

I think you're right, without Precise my Crit Chance should still be above 50% anyway and if switching to Charged really will have a noticeable effect I'll go ahead and try that out. What second set would you recommend with Frostbite though? Other than Order's.

well if you're looking for pure frost, whorl of the depth is fantastic aoe damage, but that requires doing dreadsail reef if you haven't done it already. relequen works very well too if you've done cloudrest.

FrancisCrawford

Auldwulfe wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Is medium armor ever better than light if you aren't near the penetration cap?

That's a tough one, I like to have at least 2 types of armor, to make my undaunted passive have some value .... and 2 pieces of medium adds in 4% damage bonus....
I seem to do a little better with it, but your mileage may vary.....
I tend to play Imperials, so I don't get a passive weapon or spell bonus, I just get slightly cheaper skills, and a bit of toughness, that helps me muscle through, in some situations.

Auldwulfe

Medium armor doesn't have a damage bonus that I can find. Rather, it has crit damage and spell/weapon power bonuses of 2% each.

On the other hand, 939 penetration really is a ~2% damage bonus for light armor, unless penetration cap has been reached. Its other direct DPS bonus is 1% to crit chance.

2% to spell damage from medium armor plus 2% to max magicka from Undaunted Mettle really is a 2% boost to most damage, but Undaunted Mettle only applies to the first piece of medium armor you put on

Caribou77

OP, the Master’s Perfected Ice Staff will add significant damage (700sd) to your frost build, and synergizes with Frost Reach. For two pieces, it provides great stat density.

Farming DSA for the staff is tedious, so you might want to just get the non-perfected version. You can run DSA normal with 2 people, but then your odds of getting the staff are worse.

Auldwulfe

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Is medium armor ever better than light if you aren't near the penetration cap?

That's a tough one, I like to have at least 2 types of armor, to make my undaunted passive have some value .... and 2 pieces of medium adds in 4% damage bonus....
I seem to do a little better with it, but your mileage may vary.....
I tend to play Imperials, so I don't get a passive weapon or spell bonus, I just get slightly cheaper skills, and a bit of toughness, that helps me muscle through, in some situations.

Auldwulfe

Medium armor doesn't have a damage bonus that I can find. Rather, it has crit damage and spell/weapon power bonuses of 2% each.

On the other hand, 939 penetration really is a ~2% damage bonus for light armor, unless penetration cap has been reached. Its other direct DPS bonus is 1% to crit chance.

2% to spell damage from medium armor plus 2% to max magicka from Undaunted Mettle really is a 2% boost to most damage, but Undaunted Mettle only applies to the first piece of medium armor you put on

It's the passive Agility

Auldwulfe

Caribou77

Yes ^^

Medium armor is superior for PVP in every way.

ArchMikem

Any tips on the enchants to have on the weapons? I'm using Frost front bar and Resto back. Does going full bore thematic combining a Frost dmg glyph with the Charged trait have any benefit? I also feel like I should do absorb magic on the resto staff, my character is just a resource hog and my sustain suffers in prolonged fights.

WrathOfInnos

Front bar Charged Frost enchant works very well, because it will proc chilled and deal significant damage on warden. There's also an argument to be made for Poison or Fire enchant front bar if you do not have any other source of Burning or Poisoned status effects.

Infused back bar with a weapon damage (berserker) enchant is by far the best option. However with a resto back bar you have no reliable way to proc the enchant. If you can get away with using only Warden heals (which should be fine in most content), I'd recommend going double frost staves and using Blockade or Unstable Wall to keep the back bar enchant active on cooldown.

ArchMikem

Caribou77 wrote: »

OP, the Master’s Perfected Ice Staff will add significant damage (700sd) to your frost build, and synergizes with Frost Reach. For two pieces, it provides great stat density.

Farming DSA for the staff is tedious, so you might want to just get the non-perfected version. You can run DSA normal with 2 people, but then your odds of getting the staff are worse.

I just tried farming for the staff today, DSA really doesn't want to give me one. Bunch of Stam weapons though.

ESO_Nightingale

ArchMikem wrote: »

Caribou77 wrote: »

OP, the Master’s Perfected Ice Staff will add significant damage (700sd) to your frost build, and synergizes with Frost Reach. For two pieces, it provides great stat density.

Farming DSA for the staff is tedious, so you might want to just get the non-perfected version. You can run DSA normal with 2 people, but then your odds of getting the staff are worse.

I just tried farming for the staff today, DSA really doesn't want to give me one. Bunch of Stam weapons though.

unfortunately you're just gonna need to keep going. the master's ice staff is required.

Caribou77

Yeah I sympathize- DSA gets old quickly.

I think it took me about a week to get the Masters Perfected Ice Staff, running it a couple times a day every other day, or so. 4-person party helps the odds.

Keeping those torches lit in the frost arena wiped more parties than any other feature. Loot corpses near the fire logs so that they don’t prevent you from lighting the fire.

ArchMikem

Caribou77 wrote: »

Yeah I sympathize- DSA gets old quickly.

I think it took me about a week to get the Masters Perfected Ice Staff, running it a couple times a day every other day, or so. 4-person party helps the odds.

Keeping those torches lit in the frost arena wiped more parties than any other feature. Loot corpses near the fire logs so that they don’t prevent you from lighting the fire.

Oh I'm MORE than okay with not having the perfected staff, considering my experience clearing Vet Maelstrom, lol. For me though it was the Daedra Arena I hated soloing the most. One day I managed to no death it on Normal three times in a row. Another day I cleared it once, went on a second run and I lost. Over. And over. And over. And over, to those two final round bosses, no matter what I did, I couldn't fathom what was different.

Update though, got home from work, found a partner to run DSA with tonight before bed, very first run I loot the staff so my Warden has one now. Just took it for a spin after making it gold, charged with a frost dmg enchant and I definitely notice an uptick in damage output. A little sad I can't wear Nunatak's anymore for that Major Brittle, but at least now my Cryomancer has 4,300 Spell damage fully buffed, with 50% crit chance and 34% Crit damage done. I feel like this is the most I can do to this character. Except I had the idea of adding a Maelstrom Staff to the back bar.

Caribou77

Congrats! Masters ice w/frost reach is definitely a noticeable upgrade for Frostden, especially in pvp. Have fun!

ESO_Nightingale

Caribou77 wrote: »

Congrats! Masters ice w/frost reach is definitely a noticeable upgrade for Frostden, especially in pvp. Have fun!

Pve too. It's actually necessary.

washbern

I know op said frost theme, but for pure performance, would nirn outpace frostbite?

ESO_Nightingale

washbern wrote: »

I know op said frost theme, but for pure performance, would nirn outpace frostbite?

Nirn backbar/rele/zaan/master ice frontbar has given me the best overall single target dps.

Joshuagm1991

I want to point out that this game isn’t all about dps parse in a single dummy. The perks of frost are snares, chilled, minor breach, minor brittle, (major brittle if you use Nunatak’s which is raidwide +20% crit damage), big projectile shields every 12-15 seconds. I’m probably missing a bunch.

Northern storm is great damage, + 30 seconds of extra spell damage, and major protection. Half the time Ice comet is pulled out of the AoE.

yadibroz

ArchMikem wrote: »

I have an Argonian MagWarden that I've been adamant about keeping to a pure Frost damage theme. The only exception I use is Fetcher Infection for that damage taken debuff, otherwise it's Frost Reach, Unstable Wall of Frost, Winter's Revenge, Northern Storm etc. To complement all that I wear Frostbite and Ysgramor's to buff Frost damage as much as possible, but in the end it always comes down to how often you Crit and how hard. This build has very little Crit chance and even my base Spell Damage isn't on par with my Stam characters or MagSorc. It just seems like if you try to build toward a theme you're going to struggle. Should I just abandon the gear theme and build for full Crit?

I use ice comet as frost warden

PrimusTiberius

Great thread, I just re-rolled a magden and been thinking of where I should go with it....this looks like a win