Suggested fix - How to let Oaken dps play vCR: Let them barswap

CrashTest

Voltaic Overload is fine as is, so instead of changing that mechanic, let Oaken players barswap and have their backbar be a mirror of their frontbar.

It would still essentially be a 1 bar build bc both bars (gear and skills) would be the same, but now they have to play out VO like everyone else.

The change could be made to vet Cloudrest only or to Oakensoul itself.



tl;dr - Change Oakensoul or vCR to mirror bars (gear and skills) instead of locking barswap.



* This can also be applied for any 1 bar build regardless of Oakensoul.

Heromofo

Agreed, seen this idea posted a lot as a reply to those saying Oakensoul users should have to bar swap. Hopefully that means all the Oakensoul hate can settle down as this seems like a fair solution to this whole situation.

Red_chimera_oni

Or add 30s cooldown everytime player change bars.

axi

I have a crazy idea. Unslot oakensoul and adjust Your setup accordingly. You can still play as viable one bar build in Cloudrest without oakensoul.

Red_chimera_oni

axi wrote: »

I have a crazy idea. Unslot oakensoul and adjust Your setup accordingly. You can still play as viable one bar build in Cloudrest without oakensoul.

A have better ideia.
Can you change itens while in combat? No.
Then why can you change weapons?

Block barswap everytime player is in combat.

Trejgon

Oakensoul ring is a mythic item that comes with "you get good stuff, but you have to pay the price for it" in mind.
The penalty of oakensoul is disabling weaponswap with all of the consequences that comes with it. The benefit you get in exchange, is alot of named buffs.

Now sure, people turned the penalty of inability to bar swap, into advantage (ease of use), but OP proposition, in it's nutshell, is reducing the penalty associated with the item, without adjusting the benefit you get in exchange.

and personally I am of opinion that mythic of this level of benefits should not be universally viable, in similar vein to other strong mythics (kilt drops off it's benefit if you get hit, pale order decrease in efficiency with each group member up to no benefit at certain group size, just to name few examples).

It is my understanding that alot of efficacy of the oakensoul HA builds can be replicated with mirror bars, and replacing one ability with whatever cheapest to cast mage guild skill (with relevant passive) to obtain empower buff. Sure there will be some dps drop from lack of certain buffs that oaken provides you would still be dropping off, but it should still be able to clear dps checks of aforementioned trial.

Soarora

You really don’t need oakensoul. Make a necro do empowering grasp if there’s more than like one HA. You already get most of the buffs anyways.

Araneae6537

_Yulan_ wrote: »

axi wrote: »

I have a crazy idea. Unslot oakensoul and adjust Your setup accordingly. You can still play as viable one bar build in Cloudrest without oakensoul.

A have better ideia.
Can you change itens while in combat? No.
Then why can you change weapons?

Block barswap everytime player is in combat.

Stop hating on everyone who uses two bars as the game was originally designed! Instead let’s discuss helpful changes such as OP is proposing, to enable all builds to participate in content.

Heromofo

I honestly want them to bring in more mythics like Oakensoul that completely swap up play styles. So an idea like this isn't such a complicated point of view. Even Werewolfs were impacted by this and can no longer do anything against this mechanic.

I see no harm in adjusting a mechanic to still be fair and allows more builds to join in. The point of the mechanic is to make you bar swap. Allowing Werewolfs and Oakensoul users to bar swap for this mechanic techinally full fills the intention of it.

DivineKitty

As an Oakensoul player, I would argue that no, you shouldn't get preferential treatment by the game for using it. I like Oakensoul, but that's because I'm a bad DPS in general.

The inability to bar swap is the price you pay for using it, and having the game bend over backwards to accommodate it seems like a bit of a cop-out. If they remove that particular trial mechanic for Oakensoul specifically, they may as well just get rid of it entirely, at which point it just becomes a different trial.

SilverBride

Oakensoul was designed to be single bar so it is being used as intended. This restriction shouldn't be removed.

Auldwulfe

I just put identical stuff on both bars.... take oakensoul off and run a full monster set ... most of which I bought at the gold vendor over the last year....

I get the same identical damage, and play the exact same way.....

Auldwulfe

Marcus684

As a dedicated Oakensoul wearer I’m ok with having this one trial locked out of my preferred build. The constant finger dance of normal 2-bar trials/dungeons/pvp causes my hands to hurt, and Oakensoul has opened up the pve world to me, but I don’t need ZOS to cater to my needs. It’s a bit disappointing that they didn’t adjust the trial mechanics to allow a build that they created, but if they’ve decided that people who like or need to run 1-bar builds shouldn’t run CR, so be it. I’ll just participate in the 99% of the content where 1-bar builds are viable.

Ascarl

Much better solution than the current implementation.

emilyhyoyeon

You're not playing the mechanic if the ''fake'' bar is an exact copy of your oakensoul bar.

A reasonable fix would be that they can barswap, but the fake bar is only your fists and all blank skills.

Ragnarok0130

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

You're not playing the mechanic if the ''fake'' bar is an exact copy of your oakensoul bar.

A reasonable fix would be that they can barswap, but the fake bar is only your fists and all blank skills.

I play two bars as a healer so I don't have a dog in this fight, but if someone swaps bars they're playing the mechanic because they have to have the awareness to 1. swap bars in a timely manner, and 2. remain on the bar until the mechanic is over or have bad things happen to them and to their group. I am okay with them having a clone of their front bar as long as they're doing the mechanic like the rest of the group or they suffer the consquences.

I think many of the one bars' objection to this solution is that they can't use Oakensoul because they're really using a traditional pre-oakensoul one-bar build that doesn't give them the massive buffs from the Oakensoul mythic.

*edited for spelling*

maximusrex45

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

You're not playing the mechanic if the ''fake'' bar is an exact copy of your oakensoul bar.

A reasonable fix would be that they can barswap, but the fake bar is only your fists and all blank skills.

From what I can see of the mechanic, there is nothing preventing a player without oakensoul from having identical weapons and skills on both bars and following the mechanic.

So how would it be not playing the mechanic if Oakensoul just generated two identical bars and player switched between them in a way expected by the mechanic?

Dr_Con

oakenpeeps can play VCR still, don't exceed having 2 in group. other players will get bar swap mechs, if someone dies with the barswap mech on them then it may get death transferred to an oaken person, killing the group.

emilyhyoyeon

maximusrex45 wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

You're not playing the mechanic if the ''fake'' bar is an exact copy of your oakensoul bar.

A reasonable fix would be that they can barswap, but the fake bar is only your fists and all blank skills.

From what I can see of the mechanic, there is nothing preventing a player without oakensoul from having identical weapons and skills on both bars and following the mechanic.

So how would it be not playing the mechanic if Oakensoul just generated two identical bars and player switched between them in a way expected by the mechanic?

To me it's clear it's intended to have you adapt to the situation depending on the bar you ended up on. Yeah you can fill your bars with whatever skills, or no skills, but to me the intention is clear to have different skills in the 12 skill slots rather than the same 6 on each bar.

To me it's really strange to look at Overload and think the mechanic is overtly ''don't fatfinger your barswap key'' instead of ''be prepared to get the mechanic when you're about to enter portal and not fail, if you haven't assigned a backup plan.''



Also, yeah, people already do things in CR (and other places) like double slot a burst heal, for example, to help them get through something.

Oakensoul is uniquely intended to be used with only 1 bar skill access, other sets aren't. Other sets don't get buffs to make up for the fact you're double barring them on purpose and only getting access to 6 skills.

Soarora

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

maximusrex45 wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

You're not playing the mechanic if the ''fake'' bar is an exact copy of your oakensoul bar.

A reasonable fix would be that they can barswap, but the fake bar is only your fists and all blank skills.

From what I can see of the mechanic, there is nothing preventing a player without oakensoul from having identical weapons and skills on both bars and following the mechanic.

So how would it be not playing the mechanic if Oakensoul just generated two identical bars and player switched between them in a way expected by the mechanic?

To me it's clear it's intended to have you adapt to the situation depending on the bar you ended up on. Yeah you can fill your bars with whatever skills, or no skills, but to me the intention is clear to have different skills in the 12 skill slots rather than the same 6 on each bar.

To me it's really strange to look at Overload and think the mechanic is overtly ''don't fatfinger your barswap key'' instead of ''be prepared to get the mechanic when you're about to enter portal and not fail, if you haven't assigned a backup plan.''



Also, yeah, people already do things in CR (and other places) like double slot a burst heal, for example, to help them get through something.

Oakensoul is uniquely intended to be used with only 1 bar skill access, other sets aren't. Other sets don't get buffs to make up for the fact you're double barring them on purpose and only getting access to 6 skills.

I understand the argument that part of the mechanic is to anticipate it and purposefully get it on one bar, but there really is nothing stopping someone from putting the same skills on both bars. That said though, I’ve gotten over my shock that there was a change and believe that oakensoul should be forced off in CR. Why? It’s clear to me people cling to it. I’ve seen the same arguments in defense of oakensoul that I will use now: you get “most of the buffs from your supports” and the “survivability doesn’t do anything”. Just put the necro support in empowering grasp. Problem solved.

spartaxoxo

Marcus684 wrote: »

. It’s a bit disappointing that they didn’t adjust the trial mechanics to allow a build that they created, but if they’ve decided that people who like or need to run 1-bar builds shouldn’t run CR, so be it. I’ll just participate in the 99% of the content where 1-bar builds are viable.

They actually adjusted the mechanic specifically to remove one bar builds from the trial. It originally worked that way to accommodate low levels in normal mode and werewolf players in all modes.

So restoring their ability to run this trial by doing what the OP suggests is actually allowing the trial to continue to function as it did for years.

Oakensoul users wouldn't gain any buffs or anything. Their gear would continue to function exactly the same in every other piece of content.

It would just let them clear out the occasional block bug that can happen and be cleared out by bar swapping, and also participate in this trial. That's it.

MerguezMan

I don't get this nonsense. Let Oakensoul players barswap ...

The game is overall easy, with a few specific mechanics that make you equip specific gear or skills to handle some situations.

Noone expects a glasscannon pvp gank build to be able to tank vHoF.
You shouldn't wear purge procsets in Icereach.
Going PVP without crit resist in your build is probably a bad idea.
Vet Cradle of Shadows is infinitely harder if you turn the sound off.
...
So yes, there's a boss in Cloudrest where you have time barswaps.
And that's not intense barswap, just swap when boss triggers the attack, and don't swap back.
For this one fight, you'd have to slot out Oakensoul, and adjust.

I mean, you're in a 12-man Trial. You're supposedly fully equipped, at 160+CP.
You had the option to barswap before, and you probably did until you got the ring.

Any DK can provide a group Major Brutality/Sorcery. Any Warden can provide a group Major Resolve. You have 2 tanks and 2 healers to provide various buffs. You don't "loose" that much by unslotting Oakensoul ring for something else.
In fact, Oakensoul's buffs double up with most of your group's buffs, and you shouldn't need it at all, even playing a one bar build.

Dr_Con

i would be in favor of allowing a barswap to an identical weapon/skill bar. I don't think anyone sane would be opposed, but the issue is that we don't know what the devs are capable of coding.

Remathilis

I love how everyone points to Oakensoul as the culprit when this change is also another example of ZoS telling werewolf players to go kick rocks. It confirmed that ZoS considers neither vampire nor werewolf legitimate for endgame content and routinely will nerf them to make sure they are only used for solo questing and niche PvP...

Heelie

Still don't see why one bar players don't just unequip oakensoul. Make two identical bars and source empower somewhere else, like a makes guild skill. Ring of the pale order is also useless in Cloudrest, so is a bunch of mythics, a mythic item is not made meant to be used in all content.

Vulkunne

Heelie wrote: »

Still don't see why one bar players don't just unequip oakensoul. Make two identical bars and source empower somewhere else, like a makes guild skill. Ring of the pale order is also useless in Cloudrest, so is a bunch of mythics, a mythic item is not made meant to be used in all content.

Huh. So there should be boundaries then and a one piece item set should be balanced for the game and not the game for it.

Interesting. Perhaps this should have been given greater consideration before Oak was added.

Tannus15

not every item or build needs to work in all content.

LunaFlora

this change would be awesome

why do people seem to believe people only use oakensoul for empower, a buff that wasn't originally apart of oakensoul?

i started using oakensoul because i had been struggling with bar swapping constantly to keep timed buffs active, struggling because of annoying things like chronic pain.
i don't get the same results when i switch to a monster set.

thorwyn

Perhaps this should have been given greater consideration before Oak was added.

Why?
The game is full of items you can't use in certain situations. It is part of the game to adjust your equipment to the content and changing your setup for ONE encounter is not asking too much is it?

why do people seem to believe people only use oakensoul for empower, a buff that wasn't originally apart of oakensoul?

Open esologs.com, navigate to any trial you want, check the used setups and you will be drowned in an ocean of OS builds. I highly doubt that all those people are suffering from chronic pain or physical disabilities.

Zastrix

A Mythic item is and should be a double edged sword if it's too op. Pale order heals you but you can't get healed by anyone else and you're weaker the larger the group is. Kilt has it's stacks removed etc.

[snip] If you can't use an item in a fight just don't use it.

There shouldn't a one-for-all setup for every possible scenarios when you have proc sets and possible diversity (possible because hybridization and OP sets are a different issue). Tanks have void bash, salxheel, cirimson oath, yolna etc. DDs have their own sets depending on what they need.

I play as a stage 4 vampire so I have 0 health regen and I do VCR+3 portals without an issue because I change my build according to the role I'm playing. If the fight is too long-ranged I swap to a long-range spammable and augment the passives in another way.

In the case of VCR just don't use oakensoul, use a mages guild skill like degen for empower and slot in a backbar which is a mirror of your frontbar.

[edited for baiting]

JJMaxx1980

For anyone currently using an OakenSorc who needs an alternative for Cloudrest, here’s a heavy attack build that I use. It uses the BRP daggers on the backbar and you only swap to it and cast Quick Cloak. That’s it. A quick barswap every 30 seconds. On your front bar, you’re casting Scalding Rune every 10 seconds and the rest of the rotation is pretty much the same as the standard build. I was able to hit 105k-107k with this build and it’s safe to use in Cloudrest! Also as an added bonus it teaches you to use potions and barswap a little. It’s like a one and a half bar build!

https://youtu.be/yIfPEzBTJ78