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Official Discussion Thread, "Loremaster's Archive- House Telvanni"

ZOS_Kevin
ZOS_Kevin
Community Manager
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This is the official discussion thread for, "Loremaster's Archive- House Telvanni"

"Gain greater insight into the mysterious and powerful House Telvanni with an all-new Loremaster’s Archive from the great sorcerer Divayth Fyr himself!"

*Trying something new by posting this in general for the first 24hrs and then moving to the Lore Section.
Edited by ZOS_Kevin on March 21, 2023 3:46PM
Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter
Staff Post
  • spartaxoxo
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    Ooooo A vvardvark mount? Cool. Wonder if we'll get one of them too.
  • Ratzkifal
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    A good loremaster's archive, but I got a bit of a nitpick.
    Some elders within the house claim that their observances predate the Battle of Red Mountain, and in fact are a pure distillation of Chimeric ancestor worship with only slight adaptations for this modern era.
    Boy. My man Divayth, you were there. You predate the Battle of Red Mountain. I'm sure you could have given a better answer than "some scholars believe that..." You are a living record of the entirety of the Dunmer history since that time. Sure, you aren't an expert on funerary rites but in your time I am sure you've seen your fair share of funerals, being that old and outliving most other mortals and all that.
    So, mister ex-Chimer Divayth Fyr, is this actually the case or is it not (according to your observations)?

    It would have been interesting to get his unique perspective on the matter rather than just a second-hand account of someone less qualified to talk about it than him.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Araneae6537
    Araneae6537
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    A good loremaster's archive, but I got a bit of a nitpick.
    Some elders within the house claim that their observances predate the Battle of Red Mountain, and in fact are a pure distillation of Chimeric ancestor worship with only slight adaptations for this modern era.
    Boy. My man Divayth, you were there. You predate the Battle of Red Mountain. I'm sure you could have given a better answer than "some scholars believe that..." You are a living record of the entirety of the Dunmer history since that time. Sure, you aren't an expert on funerary rites but in your time I am sure you've seen your fair share of funerals, being that old and outliving most other mortals and all that.
    So, mister ex-Chimer Divayth Fyr, is this actually the case or is it not (according to your observations)?

    It would have been interesting to get his unique perspective on the matter rather than just a second-hand account of someone less qualified to talk about it than him.

    You should be glad he deigned to answer that question at all, and indeed, the way it was asked, the last thing I would expect would be a straightforward and truthful answer! ;)
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Divayth Fyr: "Shalidor, I've come to collect those favors."

    Shalidor *hides behind the Vestige* "Say, you got me out of that deal with Sheogorath...help me?"
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    Divayth Fyr: "Shalidor, I've come to collect those favors."

    Shalidor *hides behind the Vestige* "Say, you got me out of that deal with Sheogorath...help me?"

    Poor Shali. He doesn't know that our services are not free either. Who will he contact to get out of the favors he owes us?
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Divayth Fyr: "Shalidor, I've come to collect those favors."

    Shalidor *hides behind the Vestige* "Say, you got me out of that deal with Sheogorath...help me?"

    Poor Shali. He doesn't know that our services are not free either. Who will he contact to get out of the favors he owes us?

    Now I just want to see Shalidor return and have Divayth Fyr collect on that debt. And then Shalidor return again indebted to someone else in a giant escalating series of debts.
  • APGaming
    APGaming
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    In reviewing the submitted questions, this issue of geography and politics seemed paramount in importance. It arose in several questions, in various ways. Let’s deal with this directly.

    Maps are tools. Nothing more. Nothing less. Standing in the Ashlands, a wayfinding map is a tool of survival. Able to assist you in finding your way to safety. Similarly, a ship’s map may aid a sailor in finding a calm harbor far from home.

    But political maps? Maps that claim to represent the truth of land claimed by force of blade and spell? These maps aren’t tools for the reader. They’re tools for the mapmakers.

    They speak of great strength when perhaps none exists. They speak of boundaries and borders that may exist only in the minds of people burdened by over-heavy crowns. To offer a contemporary example, have you ever seen a map of “the front” in the war between the three alliances? Do you believe that map was accurate for more than a day? At most? And, as always, remember that every written thing you read is subjective. Even the words of Divath Fyr.

    This is all context. With that in place, the historian’s question is easily answered. The Great Houses have skirmished to claim the length and breadth of the peninsula in the same way they have warred for control of Vvardenfell, or Stonefalls, or Deshaan. Any maps that claim to fully represent political control of a region as heavily contested as Morrowind are guidelines at best. Even today, as the Three Banners war rages, my people continue their great game of strike and counterstrike. Gloved hands grip gilded blades, as the strong vie to rule the weak.

    All that said, I would be remiss in not issuing a firm and clear warning. Anyone claiming that the great House Telvanni is not master of its domain is sorely mistaken. It is called “the Telvanni Peninsula,” for the house controls the whole of the territory from its base to its tip, crowned by the island palace of Port Telvannis beyond. The city of Necrom, of course, is a somewhat complicated subject which I will address anon.

    But if you have reason to fear the great house, do not sail for Firewatch. Stay far from Gorne. House Telvanni’s rule within these borders is undisputed. And its reach, its power, its vengeance is a terrible thing to behold.

    I already know the answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways:

    Does the zone included in the Necrom expansion include everything all the way from the northern tip near Firewatch down to the border gates with Deshaan?

    The answer is no, according to the global reveal map. Therefore, this new zone cannot be referred to as the Telvanni Peninsula because it is not all of the Telvanni Peninsula. Unless ZOS does an Upper Craglorn style zone expansion for free (they won't) we are being sold an incomplete landmass. What will they call the zone north of this one when the time comes to add it? Can't call it the Telvanni Peninsula, that's apparently already taken. We need clarification from ZOS as to what exactly the boundaries of the zone are and what the in-game name will be. I will not be pre-ordering until I know what I'm buying. If the entire Telvanni Peninsula is being marketed to us, when it's not actually the whole thing that's false advertising. The same thing happened when they tried to call Northern Elsweyr "Elsweyr" and they had to rename it on the map screen to rectify this and avoid false advertising.

    This is an important issue you cannot ignore.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin
    Edited by APGaming on March 14, 2023 10:52PM
  • Araneae6537
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    APGaming wrote: »
    In reviewing the submitted questions, this issue of geography and politics seemed paramount in importance. It arose in several questions, in various ways. Let’s deal with this directly.

    Maps are tools. Nothing more. Nothing less. Standing in the Ashlands, a wayfinding map is a tool of survival. Able to assist you in finding your way to safety. Similarly, a ship’s map may aid a sailor in finding a calm harbor far from home.

    But political maps? Maps that claim to represent the truth of land claimed by force of blade and spell? These maps aren’t tools for the reader. They’re tools for the mapmakers.

    They speak of great strength when perhaps none exists. They speak of boundaries and borders that may exist only in the minds of people burdened by over-heavy crowns. To offer a contemporary example, have you ever seen a map of “the front” in the war between the three alliances? Do you believe that map was accurate for more than a day? At most? And, as always, remember that every written thing you read is subjective. Even the words of Divath Fyr.

    This is all context. With that in place, the historian’s question is easily answered. The Great Houses have skirmished to claim the length and breadth of the peninsula in the same way they have warred for control of Vvardenfell, or Stonefalls, or Deshaan. Any maps that claim to fully represent political control of a region as heavily contested as Morrowind are guidelines at best. Even today, as the Three Banners war rages, my people continue their great game of strike and counterstrike. Gloved hands grip gilded blades, as the strong vie to rule the weak.

    All that said, I would be remiss in not issuing a firm and clear warning. Anyone claiming that the great House Telvanni is not master of its domain is sorely mistaken. It is called “the Telvanni Peninsula,” for the house controls the whole of the territory from its base to its tip, crowned by the island palace of Port Telvannis beyond. The city of Necrom, of course, is a somewhat complicated subject which I will address anon.

    But if you have reason to fear the great house, do not sail for Firewatch. Stay far from Gorne. House Telvanni’s rule within these borders is undisputed. And its reach, its power, its vengeance is a terrible thing to behold.

    I already know the answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways:

    Does the zone included in the Necrom expansion include everything all the way from the northern tip near Firewatch down to the border gates with Deshaan?

    The answer is no, according to the global reveal map. Therefore, this new zone cannot be referred to as the Telvanni Peninsula because it is not all of the Telvanni Peninsula. Unless ZOS does an Upper Craglorn style zone expansion for free (they won't) we are being sold an incomplete landmass. What will they call the zone north of this one when the time comes to add it? Can't call it the Telvanni Peninsula, that's apparently already taken. We need clarification from ZOS as to what exactly the boundaries of the zone are and what the in-game name will be. I will not be pre-ordering until I know what I'm buying. If the entire Telvanni Peninsula is being marketed to us, when it's not actually the whole thing that's false advertising. The same thing happened when they tried to call Northern Elsweyr "Elsweyr" and they had to rename it on the map screen to rectify this and avoid false advertising.

    This is an important issue you cannot ignore.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin

    How is this a huge deal? It’s part of the Telvanni peninsula so it’s valid to call it that. If it was advertised that players would get to explore the entirety of the Telvanni peninsula, then I would agree that is false advertising, but that hasn’t been the case and indeed, the chapter is Necrom. I’d love to see more of the Telvanni peninsula eventually too; if that day comes then they can rename the zones if needed to northern and southern, upper and lower, or whatever makes sense.
    Edited by Araneae6537 on March 15, 2023 12:07AM
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    APGaming wrote: »
    In reviewing the submitted questions, this issue of geography and politics seemed paramount in importance. It arose in several questions, in various ways. Let’s deal with this directly.

    Maps are tools. Nothing more. Nothing less. Standing in the Ashlands, a wayfinding map is a tool of survival. Able to assist you in finding your way to safety. Similarly, a ship’s map may aid a sailor in finding a calm harbor far from home.

    But political maps? Maps that claim to represent the truth of land claimed by force of blade and spell? These maps aren’t tools for the reader. They’re tools for the mapmakers.

    They speak of great strength when perhaps none exists. They speak of boundaries and borders that may exist only in the minds of people burdened by over-heavy crowns. To offer a contemporary example, have you ever seen a map of “the front” in the war between the three alliances? Do you believe that map was accurate for more than a day? At most? And, as always, remember that every written thing you read is subjective. Even the words of Divath Fyr.

    This is all context. With that in place, the historian’s question is easily answered. The Great Houses have skirmished to claim the length and breadth of the peninsula in the same way they have warred for control of Vvardenfell, or Stonefalls, or Deshaan. Any maps that claim to fully represent political control of a region as heavily contested as Morrowind are guidelines at best. Even today, as the Three Banners war rages, my people continue their great game of strike and counterstrike. Gloved hands grip gilded blades, as the strong vie to rule the weak.

    All that said, I would be remiss in not issuing a firm and clear warning. Anyone claiming that the great House Telvanni is not master of its domain is sorely mistaken. It is called “the Telvanni Peninsula,” for the house controls the whole of the territory from its base to its tip, crowned by the island palace of Port Telvannis beyond. The city of Necrom, of course, is a somewhat complicated subject which I will address anon.

    But if you have reason to fear the great house, do not sail for Firewatch. Stay far from Gorne. House Telvanni’s rule within these borders is undisputed. And its reach, its power, its vengeance is a terrible thing to behold.

    I already know the answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways:

    Does the zone included in the Necrom expansion include everything all the way from the northern tip near Firewatch down to the border gates with Deshaan?

    The answer is no, according to the global reveal map. Therefore, this new zone cannot be referred to as the Telvanni Peninsula because it is not all of the Telvanni Peninsula. Unless ZOS does an Upper Craglorn style zone expansion for free (they won't) we are being sold an incomplete landmass. What will they call the zone north of this one when the time comes to add it? Can't call it the Telvanni Peninsula, that's apparently already taken. We need clarification from ZOS as to what exactly the boundaries of the zone are and what the in-game name will be. I will not be pre-ordering until I know what I'm buying. If the entire Telvanni Peninsula is being marketed to us, when it's not actually the whole thing that's false advertising. The same thing happened when they tried to call Northern Elsweyr "Elsweyr" and they had to rename it on the map screen to rectify this and avoid false advertising.

    This is an important issue you cannot ignore.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin

    It really needs to be called "Lower Telvanni Peninsula" or something if the name is to be appropriate at all. It could also be called "Upper", the way "lower Germany" is in the north because of the lower elevation. Really, any further distinction would do.
    I remember a similar situation when Elsweyr was launched because it was marketed as... well... "Elsweyr" - not Anequina, just Elsweyr, even though the chapter is only the northern part. Normally I would have said, "I bet they are adding the other part in the Q4 DLC", but those are not a thing anymore lol. Next chapter is likely going to be in another province entirely so I wouldn't hold my breath on that either. It was a similar deal with "Morrowind" as that is actually just Vvardenfell, and not even all of Vvardenfell. But at least there you had TES3 to go off of.
    ZOS really doesn't like maps and appropriately naming zones it seems. If I had to guess, it's probably because "Telvanni Peninsula" sounds better to the marketing team than "Necrom plains" or something. We'll see what they will actually be calling the zone in game.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • APGaming
    APGaming
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    APGaming wrote: »
    In reviewing the submitted questions, this issue of geography and politics seemed paramount in importance. It arose in several questions, in various ways. Let’s deal with this directly.

    Maps are tools. Nothing more. Nothing less. Standing in the Ashlands, a wayfinding map is a tool of survival. Able to assist you in finding your way to safety. Similarly, a ship’s map may aid a sailor in finding a calm harbor far from home.

    But political maps? Maps that claim to represent the truth of land claimed by force of blade and spell? These maps aren’t tools for the reader. They’re tools for the mapmakers.

    They speak of great strength when perhaps none exists. They speak of boundaries and borders that may exist only in the minds of people burdened by over-heavy crowns. To offer a contemporary example, have you ever seen a map of “the front” in the war between the three alliances? Do you believe that map was accurate for more than a day? At most? And, as always, remember that every written thing you read is subjective. Even the words of Divath Fyr.

    This is all context. With that in place, the historian’s question is easily answered. The Great Houses have skirmished to claim the length and breadth of the peninsula in the same way they have warred for control of Vvardenfell, or Stonefalls, or Deshaan. Any maps that claim to fully represent political control of a region as heavily contested as Morrowind are guidelines at best. Even today, as the Three Banners war rages, my people continue their great game of strike and counterstrike. Gloved hands grip gilded blades, as the strong vie to rule the weak.

    All that said, I would be remiss in not issuing a firm and clear warning. Anyone claiming that the great House Telvanni is not master of its domain is sorely mistaken. It is called “the Telvanni Peninsula,” for the house controls the whole of the territory from its base to its tip, crowned by the island palace of Port Telvannis beyond. The city of Necrom, of course, is a somewhat complicated subject which I will address anon.

    But if you have reason to fear the great house, do not sail for Firewatch. Stay far from Gorne. House Telvanni’s rule within these borders is undisputed. And its reach, its power, its vengeance is a terrible thing to behold.

    I already know the answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways:

    Does the zone included in the Necrom expansion include everything all the way from the northern tip near Firewatch down to the border gates with Deshaan?

    The answer is no, according to the global reveal map. Therefore, this new zone cannot be referred to as the Telvanni Peninsula because it is not all of the Telvanni Peninsula. Unless ZOS does an Upper Craglorn style zone expansion for free (they won't) we are being sold an incomplete landmass. What will they call the zone north of this one when the time comes to add it? Can't call it the Telvanni Peninsula, that's apparently already taken. We need clarification from ZOS as to what exactly the boundaries of the zone are and what the in-game name will be. I will not be pre-ordering until I know what I'm buying. If the entire Telvanni Peninsula is being marketed to us, when it's not actually the whole thing that's false advertising. The same thing happened when they tried to call Northern Elsweyr "Elsweyr" and they had to rename it on the map screen to rectify this and avoid false advertising.

    This is an important issue you cannot ignore.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin

    It really needs to be called "Lower Telvanni Peninsula" or something if the name is to be appropriate at all. It could also be called "Upper", the way "lower Germany" is in the north because of the lower elevation. Really, any further distinction would do.
    I remember a similar situation when Elsweyr was launched because it was marketed as... well... "Elsweyr" - not Anequina, just Elsweyr, even though the chapter is only the northern part. Normally I would have said, "I bet they are adding the other part in the Q4 DLC", but those are not a thing anymore lol. Next chapter is likely going to be in another province entirely so I wouldn't hold my breath on that either. It was a similar deal with "Morrowind" as that is actually just Vvardenfell, and not even all of Vvardenfell. But at least there you had TES3 to go off of.
    ZOS really doesn't like maps and appropriately naming zones it seems. If I had to guess, it's probably because "Telvanni Peninsula" sounds better to the marketing team than "Necrom plains" or something. We'll see what they will actually be calling the zone in game.

    Tbh upper/lower sounds much better than northern/southern in this case. I'd also be totally okay with them calling it the Telvanni Coast (a region of the larger peninsula). It's literally just a naming issue and unless we make a big deal out of it now, they're not gonna fix it down the line.
  • ArchMikem
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    I like Fyr calling Ebonheart a "Larger City", when it's a whopping 6 buildings.
    CP1,900+ Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • Supreme_Atromancer
    Supreme_Atromancer
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    APGaming wrote: »
    In reviewing the submitted questions, this issue of geography and politics seemed paramount in importance. It arose in several questions, in various ways. Let’s deal with this directly.

    Maps are tools. Nothing more. Nothing less. Standing in the Ashlands, a wayfinding map is a tool of survival. Able to assist you in finding your way to safety. Similarly, a ship’s map may aid a sailor in finding a calm harbor far from home.

    But political maps? Maps that claim to represent the truth of land claimed by force of blade and spell? These maps aren’t tools for the reader. They’re tools for the mapmakers.

    They speak of great strength when perhaps none exists. They speak of boundaries and borders that may exist only in the minds of people burdened by over-heavy crowns. To offer a contemporary example, have you ever seen a map of “the front” in the war between the three alliances? Do you believe that map was accurate for more than a day? At most? And, as always, remember that every written thing you read is subjective. Even the words of Divath Fyr.

    This is all context. With that in place, the historian’s question is easily answered. The Great Houses have skirmished to claim the length and breadth of the peninsula in the same way they have warred for control of Vvardenfell, or Stonefalls, or Deshaan. Any maps that claim to fully represent political control of a region as heavily contested as Morrowind are guidelines at best. Even today, as the Three Banners war rages, my people continue their great game of strike and counterstrike. Gloved hands grip gilded blades, as the strong vie to rule the weak.

    All that said, I would be remiss in not issuing a firm and clear warning. Anyone claiming that the great House Telvanni is not master of its domain is sorely mistaken. It is called “the Telvanni Peninsula,” for the house controls the whole of the territory from its base to its tip, crowned by the island palace of Port Telvannis beyond. The city of Necrom, of course, is a somewhat complicated subject which I will address anon.

    But if you have reason to fear the great house, do not sail for Firewatch. Stay far from Gorne. House Telvanni’s rule within these borders is undisputed. And its reach, its power, its vengeance is a terrible thing to behold.

    I already know the answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways:

    Does the zone included in the Necrom expansion include everything all the way from the northern tip near Firewatch down to the border gates with Deshaan?

    The answer is no, according to the global reveal map. Therefore, this new zone cannot be referred to as the Telvanni Peninsula because it is not all of the Telvanni Peninsula. Unless ZOS does an Upper Craglorn style zone expansion for free (they won't) we are being sold an incomplete landmass. What will they call the zone north of this one when the time comes to add it? Can't call it the Telvanni Peninsula, that's apparently already taken. We need clarification from ZOS as to what exactly the boundaries of the zone are and what the in-game name will be. I will not be pre-ordering until I know what I'm buying. If the entire Telvanni Peninsula is being marketed to us, when it's not actually the whole thing that's false advertising. The same thing happened when they tried to call Northern Elsweyr "Elsweyr" and they had to rename it on the map screen to rectify this and avoid false advertising.

    This is an important issue you cannot ignore.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin

    How is this a huge deal? It’s part of the Telvanni peninsula so it’s valid to call it that. If it was advertised that players would get to explore the entirety of the Telvanni peninsula, then I would agree that is false advertising, but that hasn’t been the case and indeed, the chapter is Necrom. I’d love to see more of the Telvanni peninsula eventually too; if that day comes then they can rename the zones if needed to northern and southern, upper and lower, or whatever makes sense.

    Well, imagine how worked up people would get if they made a new "Skyrim" chapter. But, its only the western-most sliver and the vast majority of the zone is in High Rock.

    That might not be important to you, that's fine.

    But a lot of people familiar with the lore would be asking what the hell gives??

    And yes, they can say whatever they want, in essence. There's a collective knowledge about the world that the largest part of their market is going to expect. In that instance, they wouldn't do it, because they know people care. So what's the difference? People still care.

    You'd want to have some massive and intriguing narrative pay-off in order to do it, built into the story and the world for people to explore, and it would still be controversial.

    But, what's more likely here? It has some fantastic narrative reason to rock the boat? Or its purely marketing.

    They've made mistakes before. "Falkreath Hold" isn't Falkreath Hold/ Its factually wrong. Greymoor seems to have been clumsily named after a place that already existed, miles away.

    If people didn't give a crap about the details, TES would not be the great franchise it is. But it is. People DO care about the details, and they want ZOS to care, too.



    Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on March 15, 2023 6:06PM
  • Supreme_Atromancer
    Supreme_Atromancer
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    Also wanted to say that I enjoyed the Archive greatly. I think that its fantastic writing, and shows of an excellent ability to speak in character. Looking forward to more.
  • Araneae6537
    Araneae6537
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    APGaming wrote: »
    In reviewing the submitted questions, this issue of geography and politics seemed paramount in importance. It arose in several questions, in various ways. Let’s deal with this directly.

    Maps are tools. Nothing more. Nothing less. Standing in the Ashlands, a wayfinding map is a tool of survival. Able to assist you in finding your way to safety. Similarly, a ship’s map may aid a sailor in finding a calm harbor far from home.

    But political maps? Maps that claim to represent the truth of land claimed by force of blade and spell? These maps aren’t tools for the reader. They’re tools for the mapmakers.

    They speak of great strength when perhaps none exists. They speak of boundaries and borders that may exist only in the minds of people burdened by over-heavy crowns. To offer a contemporary example, have you ever seen a map of “the front” in the war between the three alliances? Do you believe that map was accurate for more than a day? At most? And, as always, remember that every written thing you read is subjective. Even the words of Divath Fyr.

    This is all context. With that in place, the historian’s question is easily answered. The Great Houses have skirmished to claim the length and breadth of the peninsula in the same way they have warred for control of Vvardenfell, or Stonefalls, or Deshaan. Any maps that claim to fully represent political control of a region as heavily contested as Morrowind are guidelines at best. Even today, as the Three Banners war rages, my people continue their great game of strike and counterstrike. Gloved hands grip gilded blades, as the strong vie to rule the weak.

    All that said, I would be remiss in not issuing a firm and clear warning. Anyone claiming that the great House Telvanni is not master of its domain is sorely mistaken. It is called “the Telvanni Peninsula,” for the house controls the whole of the territory from its base to its tip, crowned by the island palace of Port Telvannis beyond. The city of Necrom, of course, is a somewhat complicated subject which I will address anon.

    But if you have reason to fear the great house, do not sail for Firewatch. Stay far from Gorne. House Telvanni’s rule within these borders is undisputed. And its reach, its power, its vengeance is a terrible thing to behold.

    I already know the answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways:

    Does the zone included in the Necrom expansion include everything all the way from the northern tip near Firewatch down to the border gates with Deshaan?

    The answer is no, according to the global reveal map. Therefore, this new zone cannot be referred to as the Telvanni Peninsula because it is not all of the Telvanni Peninsula. Unless ZOS does an Upper Craglorn style zone expansion for free (they won't) we are being sold an incomplete landmass. What will they call the zone north of this one when the time comes to add it? Can't call it the Telvanni Peninsula, that's apparently already taken. We need clarification from ZOS as to what exactly the boundaries of the zone are and what the in-game name will be. I will not be pre-ordering until I know what I'm buying. If the entire Telvanni Peninsula is being marketed to us, when it's not actually the whole thing that's false advertising. The same thing happened when they tried to call Northern Elsweyr "Elsweyr" and they had to rename it on the map screen to rectify this and avoid false advertising.

    This is an important issue you cannot ignore.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin

    How is this a huge deal? It’s part of the Telvanni peninsula so it’s valid to call it that. If it was advertised that players would get to explore the entirety of the Telvanni peninsula, then I would agree that is false advertising, but that hasn’t been the case and indeed, the chapter is Necrom. I’d love to see more of the Telvanni peninsula eventually too; if that day comes then they can rename the zones if needed to northern and southern, upper and lower, or whatever makes sense.

    Well, imagine how worked up people would get if they made a new "Skyrim" chapter. But, its only the western-most sliver and the vast majority of the zone is in High Rock.

    That might not be important to you, that's fine.

    But a lot of people familiar with the lore would be asking what the hell gives??

    And yes, they can say whatever they want, in essence. There's a collective knowledge about the world that the largest part of their market is going to expect. In that instance, they wouldn't do it, because they know people care. So what's the difference? People still care.

    You'd want to have some massive and intriguing narrative pay-off in order to do it, built into the story and the world for people to explore, and it would still be controversial.

    But, what's more likely here? It has some fantastic narrative reason to rock the boat? Or its purely marketing.

    They've made mistakes before. "Falkreath Hold" isn't Falkreath Hold/ Its factually wrong. Greymoor seems to have been clumsily named after a place that already existed, miles away.

    If people didn't give a crap about the details, TES would not be the great franchise it is. But it is. People DO care about the details, and they want ZOS to care, too.

    That’s true. I didn’t mean to imply I don’t care about the details, especially where Morrowind is concerned. I just hadn’t hadn’t thought it contradictory, even as TES III itself was called Morrowind but was in fact the island of Vvardenfell, so I thought this was a similar situation. Otherwise, I’m not sure what the region should be called that would not be completely unwieldy.

    I certainly hope that the lore regarding the city and Dunmer cultures, and the writing of the story and characters are well done. :)
  • Supreme_Atromancer
    Supreme_Atromancer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    APGaming wrote: »
    In reviewing the submitted questions, this issue of geography and politics seemed paramount in importance. It arose in several questions, in various ways. Let’s deal with this directly.

    Maps are tools. Nothing more. Nothing less. Standing in the Ashlands, a wayfinding map is a tool of survival. Able to assist you in finding your way to safety. Similarly, a ship’s map may aid a sailor in finding a calm harbor far from home.

    But political maps? Maps that claim to represent the truth of land claimed by force of blade and spell? These maps aren’t tools for the reader. They’re tools for the mapmakers.

    They speak of great strength when perhaps none exists. They speak of boundaries and borders that may exist only in the minds of people burdened by over-heavy crowns. To offer a contemporary example, have you ever seen a map of “the front” in the war between the three alliances? Do you believe that map was accurate for more than a day? At most? And, as always, remember that every written thing you read is subjective. Even the words of Divath Fyr.

    This is all context. With that in place, the historian’s question is easily answered. The Great Houses have skirmished to claim the length and breadth of the peninsula in the same way they have warred for control of Vvardenfell, or Stonefalls, or Deshaan. Any maps that claim to fully represent political control of a region as heavily contested as Morrowind are guidelines at best. Even today, as the Three Banners war rages, my people continue their great game of strike and counterstrike. Gloved hands grip gilded blades, as the strong vie to rule the weak.

    All that said, I would be remiss in not issuing a firm and clear warning. Anyone claiming that the great House Telvanni is not master of its domain is sorely mistaken. It is called “the Telvanni Peninsula,” for the house controls the whole of the territory from its base to its tip, crowned by the island palace of Port Telvannis beyond. The city of Necrom, of course, is a somewhat complicated subject which I will address anon.

    But if you have reason to fear the great house, do not sail for Firewatch. Stay far from Gorne. House Telvanni’s rule within these borders is undisputed. And its reach, its power, its vengeance is a terrible thing to behold.

    I already know the answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways:

    Does the zone included in the Necrom expansion include everything all the way from the northern tip near Firewatch down to the border gates with Deshaan?

    The answer is no, according to the global reveal map. Therefore, this new zone cannot be referred to as the Telvanni Peninsula because it is not all of the Telvanni Peninsula. Unless ZOS does an Upper Craglorn style zone expansion for free (they won't) we are being sold an incomplete landmass. What will they call the zone north of this one when the time comes to add it? Can't call it the Telvanni Peninsula, that's apparently already taken. We need clarification from ZOS as to what exactly the boundaries of the zone are and what the in-game name will be. I will not be pre-ordering until I know what I'm buying. If the entire Telvanni Peninsula is being marketed to us, when it's not actually the whole thing that's false advertising. The same thing happened when they tried to call Northern Elsweyr "Elsweyr" and they had to rename it on the map screen to rectify this and avoid false advertising.

    This is an important issue you cannot ignore.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin

    How is this a huge deal? It’s part of the Telvanni peninsula so it’s valid to call it that. If it was advertised that players would get to explore the entirety of the Telvanni peninsula, then I would agree that is false advertising, but that hasn’t been the case and indeed, the chapter is Necrom. I’d love to see more of the Telvanni peninsula eventually too; if that day comes then they can rename the zones if needed to northern and southern, upper and lower, or whatever makes sense.

    Well, imagine how worked up people would get if they made a new "Skyrim" chapter. But, its only the western-most sliver and the vast majority of the zone is in High Rock.

    That might not be important to you, that's fine.

    But a lot of people familiar with the lore would be asking what the hell gives??

    And yes, they can say whatever they want, in essence. There's a collective knowledge about the world that the largest part of their market is going to expect. In that instance, they wouldn't do it, because they know people care. So what's the difference? People still care.

    You'd want to have some massive and intriguing narrative pay-off in order to do it, built into the story and the world for people to explore, and it would still be controversial.

    But, what's more likely here? It has some fantastic narrative reason to rock the boat? Or its purely marketing.

    They've made mistakes before. "Falkreath Hold" isn't Falkreath Hold/ Its factually wrong. Greymoor seems to have been clumsily named after a place that already existed, miles away.

    If people didn't give a crap about the details, TES would not be the great franchise it is. But it is. People DO care about the details, and they want ZOS to care, too.

    That’s true. I didn’t mean to imply I don’t care about the details, especially where Morrowind is concerned. I just hadn’t hadn’t thought it contradictory, even as TES III itself was called Morrowind but was in fact the island of Vvardenfell, so I thought this was a similar situation. Otherwise, I’m not sure what the region should be called that would not be completely unwieldy.

    I certainly hope that the lore regarding the city and Dunmer cultures, and the writing of the story and characters are well done. :)

    No worries! TES geography is an aspect I'm particularly passionate about :smiley: . Tamriel is the main character, as Mr. Howard once said. Every part tells a story. My characters are all inspired by some intriguing place, and if I didn't feel like they cared about detail, I wouldn't have anything to engage me- making characters and stories supported by a world that is cohesive and coherent, and is true to the lore we know. At the end of the day they have to produce and deliver a game that's fun to play, I just hope that decisions are not based on carelessness, or thinking detail is expendable. I'm aware that that level of passion might alienate me a bit, buuuuut I think plenty of people feel the same, and RPGs are about immersion, and MMOs are about investment.

    I am optimistic about Necrom chapter, though. If the writing in the LM Archive is anything to go by, I think the chapter will be fantastic. The city looks awesome, and I'm really pumped for June!
  • kaushad
    kaushad
    ✭✭✭✭
    APGaming wrote: »
    It's literally just a naming issue and unless we make a big deal out of it now, they're not gonna fix it down the line.

    No it isn't. They've squandered a piece of the map on something that we already have and for which there is ample space left elsewhere. If they wanted a Telvanni Peninsula DLC, they should have set it in the north.

    If we had a new zone between Zabamat and Skuldafn and it was full of Nords (or Telvanni again, why not?) instead of Redoran, the name "Ashmarch" or "Far Eastern Skyrim" or whatever wouldn't be the only issue.
    Edited by kaushad on March 15, 2023 9:36PM
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    i liked this archive, and i really read it with fyr's voice
  • OgrimTitan
    OgrimTitan
    ✭✭✭
    APGaming wrote: »
    In reviewing the submitted questions, this issue of geography and politics seemed paramount in importance. It arose in several questions, in various ways. Let’s deal with this directly.

    Maps are tools. Nothing more. Nothing less. Standing in the Ashlands, a wayfinding map is a tool of survival. Able to assist you in finding your way to safety. Similarly, a ship’s map may aid a sailor in finding a calm harbor far from home.

    But political maps? Maps that claim to represent the truth of land claimed by force of blade and spell? These maps aren’t tools for the reader. They’re tools for the mapmakers.

    They speak of great strength when perhaps none exists. They speak of boundaries and borders that may exist only in the minds of people burdened by over-heavy crowns. To offer a contemporary example, have you ever seen a map of “the front” in the war between the three alliances? Do you believe that map was accurate for more than a day? At most? And, as always, remember that every written thing you read is subjective. Even the words of Divath Fyr.

    This is all context. With that in place, the historian’s question is easily answered. The Great Houses have skirmished to claim the length and breadth of the peninsula in the same way they have warred for control of Vvardenfell, or Stonefalls, or Deshaan. Any maps that claim to fully represent political control of a region as heavily contested as Morrowind are guidelines at best. Even today, as the Three Banners war rages, my people continue their great game of strike and counterstrike. Gloved hands grip gilded blades, as the strong vie to rule the weak.

    All that said, I would be remiss in not issuing a firm and clear warning. Anyone claiming that the great House Telvanni is not master of its domain is sorely mistaken. It is called “the Telvanni Peninsula,” for the house controls the whole of the territory from its base to its tip, crowned by the island palace of Port Telvannis beyond. The city of Necrom, of course, is a somewhat complicated subject which I will address anon.

    But if you have reason to fear the great house, do not sail for Firewatch. Stay far from Gorne. House Telvanni’s rule within these borders is undisputed. And its reach, its power, its vengeance is a terrible thing to behold.

    I already know the answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways:

    Does the zone included in the Necrom expansion include everything all the way from the northern tip near Firewatch down to the border gates with Deshaan?

    The answer is no, according to the global reveal map. Therefore, this new zone cannot be referred to as the Telvanni Peninsula because it is not all of the Telvanni Peninsula. Unless ZOS does an Upper Craglorn style zone expansion for free (they won't) we are being sold an incomplete landmass. What will they call the zone north of this one when the time comes to add it? Can't call it the Telvanni Peninsula, that's apparently already taken. We need clarification from ZOS as to what exactly the boundaries of the zone are and what the in-game name will be. I will not be pre-ordering until I know what I'm buying. If the entire Telvanni Peninsula is being marketed to us, when it's not actually the whole thing that's false advertising. The same thing happened when they tried to call Northern Elsweyr "Elsweyr" and they had to rename it on the map screen to rectify this and avoid false advertising.

    This is an important issue you cannot ignore.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin

    How is this a huge deal? It’s part of the Telvanni peninsula so it’s valid to call it that. If it was advertised that players would get to explore the entirety of the Telvanni peninsula, then I would agree that is false advertising, but that hasn’t been the case and indeed, the chapter is Necrom. I’d love to see more of the Telvanni peninsula eventually too; if that day comes then they can rename the zones if needed to northern and southern, upper and lower, or whatever makes sense.

    Well, imagine how worked up people would get if they made a new "Skyrim" chapter. But, its only the western-most sliver and the vast majority of the zone is in High Rock.

    That might not be important to you, that's fine.

    But a lot of people familiar with the lore would be asking what the hell gives??

    And yes, they can say whatever they want, in essence. There's a collective knowledge about the world that the largest part of their market is going to expect. In that instance, they wouldn't do it, because they know people care. So what's the difference? People still care.

    You'd want to have some massive and intriguing narrative pay-off in order to do it, built into the story and the world for people to explore, and it would still be controversial.

    But, what's more likely here? It has some fantastic narrative reason to rock the boat? Or its purely marketing.

    They've made mistakes before. "Falkreath Hold" isn't Falkreath Hold/ Its factually wrong. Greymoor seems to have been clumsily named after a place that already existed, miles away.

    If people didn't give a crap about the details, TES would not be the great franchise it is. But it is. People DO care about the details, and they want ZOS to care, too.

    That’s true. I didn’t mean to imply I don’t care about the details, especially where Morrowind is concerned. I just hadn’t hadn’t thought it contradictory, even as TES III itself was called Morrowind but was in fact the island of Vvardenfell, so I thought this was a similar situation. Otherwise, I’m not sure what the region should be called that would not be completely unwieldy.

    I certainly hope that the lore regarding the city and Dunmer cultures, and the writing of the story and characters are well done. :)

    No worries! TES geography is an aspect I'm particularly passionate about :smiley: . Tamriel is the main character, as Mr. Howard once said. Every part tells a story. My characters are all inspired by some intriguing place, and if I didn't feel like they cared about detail, I wouldn't have anything to engage me- making characters and stories supported by a world that is cohesive and coherent, and is true to the lore we know. At the end of the day they have to produce and deliver a game that's fun to play, I just hope that decisions are not based on carelessness, or thinking detail is expendable. I'm aware that that level of passion might alienate me a bit, buuuuut I think plenty of people feel the same, and RPGs are about immersion, and MMOs are about investment.

    I am optimistic about Necrom chapter, though. If the writing in the LM Archive is anything to go by, I think the chapter will be fantastic. The city looks awesome, and I'm really pumped for June!

    Alienate - not at all. Keep it up, we need love and passion about the lore and world right here. This, along with some healthy skepticism is what this community needs.
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