No ToT on endeavors. Why?

NeKryXe

We have many PVP things on endeavors, even those awful mini-game of the antiquities, opening chests... almost everything you can think of from ESO we find from time to time on endeavors. Why we never ever got one single ToT task on endeavors? Isn't ToT a part of ESO? What's the problem with ToT?

spartaxoxo

I'd imagine and hope that they are waiting until High Isle becomes part of plus before making it part of an endeavor.

NeKryXe

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'd imagine and hope that they are waiting until High Isle becomes part of plus before making it part of an endeavor.

Oh! I wasn't aware of that. So, does it mean that antiquities only became part of endeavors when Greymoor became part of plus? I didn't pay attention at the time.

Mik195

Given how many ToT players complain about people wasting their time, I don't think having people who just want the endeavor flooding the queue would make it a pleasant experience for those who actually want to play. Most of the others are solo except for battlegrounds and if you play ESO you are probably somewhat favorable towards attacking. I don't know if I'd make the same assumption about a card game. Just not sure that it would expose the game to enough people who like it to balance out all the people just trying to finish the endeavor any way possible.

rnklippel

NeKryXe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'd imagine and hope that they are waiting until High Isle becomes part of plus before making it part of an endeavor.

Oh! I wasn't aware of that. So, does it mean that antiquities only became part of endeavors when Greymoor became part of plus? I didn't pay attention at the time.

The endeavor system as a whole was only introduced 2 weeks after the launch of the Blackwood chapter, when Greymoor became part of eso plus.

Jusey1

Mik195 wrote: »

Given how many ToT players complain about people wasting their time, I don't think having people who just want the endeavor flooding the queue would make it a pleasant experience for those who actually want to play.

Just make the endeavors work against NPCs. For example, "Get x wins in any Tribute game". Could even do things like "Beat a Tribute Master" as endeavors or "Beat x Expert NPCs" so that the harder Tribute NPCs get some more usage (after beating them once and getting to max ranked, there's no reason to beat harder tribute NPCs since Novice are faster to beat for the same rewards).

NeKryXe

Mik195 wrote: »

Given how many ToT players complain about people wasting their time, I don't think having people who just want the endeavor flooding the queue would make it a pleasant experience for those who actually want to play. Most of the others are solo except for battlegrounds and if you play ESO you are probably somewhat favorable towards attacking. I don't know if I'd make the same assumption about a card game. Just not sure that it would expose the game to enough people who like it to balance out all the people just trying to finish the endeavor any way possible.

I'm aware that some players don't like ToT, and I understand it, we don't need to enjoy everything on ESO to enjoy ESO. I don't play much PVP too and I don't like those mini-games of antiquities. But it's ok, we only need to do 3 out of 5 endeavors.

If Zos decide to privilege players who enjoy the antiquity mini-games over players who enjoy the ToT mini-game, then maybe it's time to start refunding players who bought High Isle motivated by the inclusion of a card game in ESO. I really hope that they treat ToT in the same way they treat everything else and don't get intimidated by bullies against ToT. There should be place for all.

Anyway... if they request only to play a couple of ToT matches to complete an endeavor, even without winning, no one could complain about wasting their time and, like I said before, there's always other options. People that don't enjoy ToT can't complain.

spartaxoxo

NeKryXe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'd imagine and hope that they are waiting until High Isle becomes part of plus before making it part of an endeavor.

Oh! I wasn't aware of that. So, does it mean that antiquities only became part of endeavors when Greymoor became part of plus? I didn't pay attention at the time.

No. I'm just guessing. We don't really have a precedent before because antiquities was already part of plus before endeavors. It just makes sense to me to wait until it's available to the wider playerbase.

NeKryXe

spartaxoxo wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'd imagine and hope that they are waiting until High Isle becomes part of plus before making it part of an endeavor.

Oh! I wasn't aware of that. So, does it mean that antiquities only became part of endeavors when Greymoor became part of plus? I didn't pay attention at the time.

No. I'm just guessing. We don't really have a precedent before because antiquities was already part of plus before endeavors. It just makes sense to me to wait until it's available to the wider playerbase.

I see... I think it's really weird that we don't have any ToT activities on endeavors. And I'm finding it very suspicious. I'd really like to know if there's a reason for it or if it'll be added soon.

Aislinna

Jusey1 wrote: »

Mik195 wrote: »

Given how many ToT players complain about people wasting their time, I don't think having people who just want the endeavor flooding the queue would make it a pleasant experience for those who actually want to play.

Just make the endeavors work against NPCs. For example, "Get x wins in any Tribute game". Could even do things like "Beat a Tribute Master" as endeavors or "Beat x Expert NPCs" so that the harder Tribute NPCs get some more usage (after beating them once and getting to max ranked, there's no reason to beat harder tribute NPCs since Novice are faster to beat for the same rewards).

I don't play ToT very often and I don't mind if a ToT activity is added as an endeavor option, but please do not make the endeavor something like "WIN against EXPERT NPCs or MASTER players". I have tried the ToT quest a few times and it took forever/hours to barely beat the 3 novice NPC. NPCs don't care if they get usage or not, they aren't sitting around bored waiting for a game. An acceptable endeavor would be "Complete (not win) one ToT game (either against NPC or player)". This would allow regular ToT players to complete an endeavor without additional effort and it may entice new players to ToT after trying it for an endeavor.

spartaxoxo

Aislinna wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

Mik195 wrote: »

Given how many ToT players complain about people wasting their time, I don't think having people who just want the endeavor flooding the queue would make it a pleasant experience for those who actually want to play.

Just make the endeavors work against NPCs. For example, "Get x wins in any Tribute game". Could even do things like "Beat a Tribute Master" as endeavors or "Beat x Expert NPCs" so that the harder Tribute NPCs get some more usage (after beating them once and getting to max ranked, there's no reason to beat harder tribute NPCs since Novice are faster to beat for the same rewards).

I don't play ToT very often and I don't mind if a ToT activity is added as an endeavor option, but please do not make the endeavor something like "WIN against EXPERT NPCs or MASTER players". I have tried the ToT quest a few times and it took forever/hours to barely beat the 3 novice NPC. NPCs don't care if they get usage or not, they aren't sitting around bored waiting for a game. An acceptable endeavor would be "Complete (not win) one ToT game (either against NPC or player)". This would allow regular ToT players to complete an endeavor without additional effort and it may entice new players to ToT after trying it for an endeavor.

I agree it should just be a "complete" endeavor rather than a win, as long as conceding doesn't count. The reason being that I don't want people who genuinely want to play to have wait around in queue and then get immediately get kicked to the back of the line because it's an endeavor that day and the other person conceded the moment the match loaded.

Necrotech_Master

i dislike all of the pvp stuff that requires wins to progress (like the BG daily for "wins" (they count first or 2nd place, but even that is difficult at times), and the tot pvp daily is win against players)

for the tot pvp daily, i never bothered trying to get more than 1 win before turning it in, sometimes it took 2 or 3 matches to get 1 win

against the npcs i dont care if i need wins, because win rate against the npcs is like 95% if you have a brain lol

SeaGtGruff

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

Mik195 wrote: »

Given how many ToT players complain about people wasting their time, I don't think having people who just want the endeavor flooding the queue would make it a pleasant experience for those who actually want to play.

Just make the endeavors work against NPCs. For example, "Get x wins in any Tribute game". Could even do things like "Beat a Tribute Master" as endeavors or "Beat x Expert NPCs" so that the harder Tribute NPCs get some more usage (after beating them once and getting to max ranked, there's no reason to beat harder tribute NPCs since Novice are faster to beat for the same rewards).

I don't play ToT very often and I don't mind if a ToT activity is added as an endeavor option, but please do not make the endeavor something like "WIN against EXPERT NPCs or MASTER players". I have tried the ToT quest a few times and it took forever/hours to barely beat the 3 novice NPC. NPCs don't care if they get usage or not, they aren't sitting around bored waiting for a game. An acceptable endeavor would be "Complete (not win) one ToT game (either against NPC or player)". This would allow regular ToT players to complete an endeavor without additional effort and it may entice new players to ToT after trying it for an endeavor.

I agree it should just be a "complete" endeavor rather than a win, as long as conceding doesn't count. The reason being that I don't want people who genuinely want to play to have wait around in queue and then get immediately get kicked to the back of the line because it's an endeavor that day and the other person conceded the moment the match loaded.

The duel-related endeavors are for completing duels, not necessarily for winning duels, so it would make sense for any ToT endeavors to be similar.

spartaxoxo

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

Mik195 wrote: »

Given how many ToT players complain about people wasting their time, I don't think having people who just want the endeavor flooding the queue would make it a pleasant experience for those who actually want to play.

Just make the endeavors work against NPCs. For example, "Get x wins in any Tribute game". Could even do things like "Beat a Tribute Master" as endeavors or "Beat x Expert NPCs" so that the harder Tribute NPCs get some more usage (after beating them once and getting to max ranked, there's no reason to beat harder tribute NPCs since Novice are faster to beat for the same rewards).

I don't play ToT very often and I don't mind if a ToT activity is added as an endeavor option, but please do not make the endeavor something like "WIN against EXPERT NPCs or MASTER players". I have tried the ToT quest a few times and it took forever/hours to barely beat the 3 novice NPC. NPCs don't care if they get usage or not, they aren't sitting around bored waiting for a game. An acceptable endeavor would be "Complete (not win) one ToT game (either against NPC or player)". This would allow regular ToT players to complete an endeavor without additional effort and it may entice new players to ToT after trying it for an endeavor.

I agree it should just be a "complete" endeavor rather than a win, as long as conceding doesn't count. The reason being that I don't want people who genuinely want to play to have wait around in queue and then get immediately get kicked to the back of the line because it's an endeavor that day and the other person conceded the moment the match loaded.

The duel-related endeavors are for completing duels, not necessarily for winning duels, so it would make sense for any ToT endeavors to be similar.

Yes. The issue with comparing conceding to someone throwing a duel is that people can talk to each other about the duel before hand. So the person dueling them knows going in it's just for the endeavor and often one person will voluntary throw. PvP Tales would be through the activity finder which means the opponent doesn't get to agree ahead of time to the concession and has to wait on queues before and afterwards.

So, while victory is not a necessary condition for a Tales endeavor, it should require you to actually complete it rather than concede.

I only think it should be like that if they include PvP, it doesn't matter if the person actually plays out an npc match.

Necrotech_Master

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

Mik195 wrote: »

Given how many ToT players complain about people wasting their time, I don't think having people who just want the endeavor flooding the queue would make it a pleasant experience for those who actually want to play.

Just make the endeavors work against NPCs. For example, "Get x wins in any Tribute game". Could even do things like "Beat a Tribute Master" as endeavors or "Beat x Expert NPCs" so that the harder Tribute NPCs get some more usage (after beating them once and getting to max ranked, there's no reason to beat harder tribute NPCs since Novice are faster to beat for the same rewards).

I don't play ToT very often and I don't mind if a ToT activity is added as an endeavor option, but please do not make the endeavor something like "WIN against EXPERT NPCs or MASTER players". I have tried the ToT quest a few times and it took forever/hours to barely beat the 3 novice NPC. NPCs don't care if they get usage or not, they aren't sitting around bored waiting for a game. An acceptable endeavor would be "Complete (not win) one ToT game (either against NPC or player)". This would allow regular ToT players to complete an endeavor without additional effort and it may entice new players to ToT after trying it for an endeavor.

I agree it should just be a "complete" endeavor rather than a win, as long as conceding doesn't count. The reason being that I don't want people who genuinely want to play to have wait around in queue and then get immediately get kicked to the back of the line because it's an endeavor that day and the other person conceded the moment the match loaded.

The duel-related endeavors are for completing duels, not necessarily for winning duels, so it would make sense for any ToT endeavors to be similar.

Yes. The issue with comparing conceding to someone throwing a duel is that people can talk to each other about the duel before hand. So the person dueling them knows going in it's just for the endeavor and often one person will voluntary throw. PvP Tales would be through the activity finder which means the opponent doesn't get to agree ahead of time to the concession and has to wait on queues before and afterwards.

So, while victory is not a necessary condition for a Tales endeavor, it should require you to actually complete it rather than concede.

I only think it should be like that if they include PvP, it doesn't matter if the person actually plays out an npc match.

you can do a non-queued "duel" with tribute too, i dont know how this works if player A has it unlocked and player B does not, does it still allow player A to invite B to a tribute game?

Jusey1

Aislinna wrote: »

I have tried the ToT quest a few times and it took forever/hours to barely beat the 3 novice NPC.

My only question is how? In most cases, you can beat a novice NPC in 4 turns with the right patreon picks. They're so extremely bad that the only patreon they will ever use is Sorcerer-King Ordnum for Pete's sake.

Groterdan

Tot no thx . Waiste of time and recources such a shame they actually added it.

Aislinna

Jusey1 wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

I have tried the ToT quest a few times and it took forever/hours to barely beat the 3 novice NPC.

My only question is how? In most cases, you can beat a novice NPC in 4 turns with the right patreon picks. They're so extremely bad that the only patreon they will ever use is Sorcerer-King Ordnum for Pete's sake.

Thank you for sharing your opinion on adding ToT as an endeavor. Thank you for making me feel less good about sharing my opinion.

NeKryXe

Groterdan wrote: »

Tot no thx . Waiste of time and recources such a shame they actually added it.

Many players are enjoying it a lot. You don't need to waste time with it if you don't enjoy. I've been playing ESO since release I was never interested in many parts of the game, like Cyrodiil for example, and I never complained about its existence. I'm free to not play Cyrodiil, you are free to not play ToT.

So... if you don't like ToT, why do you care? Pick something else. It's a big game, with a lot to do.

DragonRacer

NeKryXe wrote: »

Groterdan wrote: »

Tot no thx . Waiste of time and recources such a shame they actually added it.

Many players are enjoying it a lot. You don't need to waste time with it if you don't enjoy. I've been playing ESO since release I was never interested in many parts of the game, like Cyrodiil for example, and I never complained about its existence. I'm free to not play Cyrodiil, you are free to not play ToT.

So... if you don't like ToT, why do you care? Pick something else. It's a big game, with a lot to do.

It's kinda interesting someone with that opinion of ToT is even reading the ToT subforum, IMO.

colossalvoids

DragonRacer wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

Groterdan wrote: »

Tot no thx . Waiste of time and recources such a shame they actually added it.

Many players are enjoying it a lot. You don't need to waste time with it if you don't enjoy. I've been playing ESO since release I was never interested in many parts of the game, like Cyrodiil for example, and I never complained about its existence. I'm free to not play Cyrodiil, you are free to not play ToT.

So... if you don't like ToT, why do you care? Pick something else. It's a big game, with a lot to do.

It's kinda interesting someone with that opinion of ToT is even reading the ToT subforum, IMO.

Pretty sure people are reading "recent" tab, not a subforum.

Jusey1

Aislinna wrote: »

Thank you for sharing your opinion on adding ToT as an endeavor. Thank you for making me feel less good about sharing my opinion.

Apologies, I was just honestly surprised just cause I considered the NPCs to be way too easily exploitable. I didn't meant any harm.

Grizzbeorn

People already complain that Endeavors take too much time and effort. (I'm not one of those people; I'm just sayin'.)

ToT is very time-intensive, so I don't see that as a plus for being accepted as an addition to the Endeavors list.
Unless, possibly, it's as a Weekly Endeavor, to play a reasonable number matches (no more than 5-7, I'd imagine).

NeKryXe

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

People already complain that Endeavors take too much time and effort. (I'm not one of those people; I'm just sayin'.)

ToT is very time-intensive, so I don't see that as a plus for being accepted as an addition to the Endeavors list.
Unless, possibly, it's as a Weekly Endeavor, to play a reasonable number matches (no more than 5-7, I'd imagine).

ToT might be very time-intensive for you, but for me it is antiquities or battlegrounds, trials or repair stuff in Cyrodiil. Not ToT. That's why you only need to complete 3 out of 5 endeavors. Just pick what you prefer.

But if they keep putting ToT aside due to the usual nonsense excuses like this, they better assume that players who enjoy ToT are less than the others and completely remove it from ESO. They can add a Lockpicking rank then, seems to be a more challenging mini-game to this community.

Grizzbeorn

NeKryXe wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

People already complain that Endeavors take too much time and effort. (I'm not one of those people; I'm just sayin'.)

ToT is very time-intensive, so I don't see that as a plus for being accepted as an addition to the Endeavors list.
Unless, possibly, it's as a Weekly Endeavor, to play a reasonable number matches (no more than 5-7, I'd imagine).

ToT might be very time-intensive for you, but for me it is antiquities or battlegrounds, trials or repair stuff in Cyrodiil. Not ToT. That's why you only need to complete 3 out of 5 endeavors. Just pick what you prefer.

But if they keep putting ToT aside due to the usual nonsense excuses like this, they better assume that players who enjoy ToT are less than the others and completely remove it from ESO. They can add a Lockpicking rank then, seems to be a more challenging mini-game to this community.

It's only a "nonsense excuse" to you.
And they aren't going to remove ToT from the game. THAT is nonsense.

NeKryXe

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

People already complain that Endeavors take too much time and effort. (I'm not one of those people; I'm just sayin'.)

ToT is very time-intensive, so I don't see that as a plus for being accepted as an addition to the Endeavors list.
Unless, possibly, it's as a Weekly Endeavor, to play a reasonable number matches (no more than 5-7, I'd imagine).

ToT might be very time-intensive for you, but for me it is antiquities or battlegrounds, trials or repair stuff in Cyrodiil. Not ToT. That's why you only need to complete 3 out of 5 endeavors. Just pick what you prefer.

But if they keep putting ToT aside due to the usual nonsense excuses like this, they better assume that players who enjoy ToT are less than the others and completely remove it from ESO. They can add a Lockpicking rank then, seems to be a more challenging mini-game to this community.

It's only a "nonsense excuse" to you.
And they aren't going to remove ToT from the game. THAT is nonsense.

Completing one fast trial takes 15 to 20 minutes, one battleground around 10 to 15 minutes, and so on... there are many others like this on endeavors. One match of ToT on casual takes 10 to 15 minutes or against an NPC it can take less than 5 minutes... but yeah! ToT is always the problem. Yep... it really makes a lot of sense.

Jusey1

NeKryXe wrote: »

Completing one fast trial takes 15 to 20 minutes, one battleground around 10 to 15 minutes, and so on... there are many others like this on endeavors. One match of ToT on casual takes 10 to 15 minutes or against an NPC it can take less than 5 minutes... but yeah! ToT is always the problem. Yep... it really makes a lot of sense.

This, ToT is very short in all honesty for good rewards. The only issue with ToT is PvP's queue times can be bad but if the endeavors works against NPCs, then there is no excuse to not have them because those would be easy to do within a small amount of time. Plus you get good rewards such as recipes, mats, transmute crystals, etc.

Grizzbeorn

NeKryXe wrote: »

Completing one fast trial takes 15 to 20 minutes, one battleground around 10 to 15 minutes, and so on... there are many others like this on endeavors. One match of ToT on casual takes 10 to 15 minutes or against an NPC it can take less than 5 minutes... but yeah! ToT is always the problem. Yep... it really makes a lot of sense.

Ok, ok. I didn't think it through completely, with regard to trials/BGs also taking a bit of time, and I was basing the time commitment on my own experience; I just played my first ToT game yesterday.
(and I would also welcome ToT being added to Endeavors [I like and enjoy playing the card game], but I just started with it). Like I said above, I'm not one of the people who complain about Endeavors taking too long. You just apparently decided that I was one of those people.)

But you can make your points without being insulting or sarcastic. That will end up biting you. (speaking from experience, so take that as some friendly advice.)

NeKryXe

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

Completing one fast trial takes 15 to 20 minutes, one battleground around 10 to 15 minutes, and so on... there are many others like this on endeavors. One match of ToT on casual takes 10 to 15 minutes or against an NPC it can take less than 5 minutes... but yeah! ToT is always the problem. Yep... it really makes a lot of sense.

Ok, ok. I didn't think it through completely, with regard to trials/BGs also taking a bit of time, and I was basing the time commitment on my own experience; I just played my first ToT game yesterday.
(and I would also welcome ToT being added to Endeavors [I like and enjoy playing the card game], but I just started with it). Like I said above, I'm not one of the people who complain about Endeavors taking too long. You just apparently decided that I was one of those people.)

But you can make your points without being insulting or sarcastic. That will end up biting you. (speaking from experience, so take that as some friendly advice.)

Oh! C'mon... sarcastic: yes, insulting: no. I'm sorry if you felt that way.

Grizzbeorn

NeKryXe wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

NeKryXe wrote: »

Completing one fast trial takes 15 to 20 minutes, one battleground around 10 to 15 minutes, and so on... there are many others like this on endeavors. One match of ToT on casual takes 10 to 15 minutes or against an NPC it can take less than 5 minutes... but yeah! ToT is always the problem. Yep... it really makes a lot of sense.

Ok, ok. I didn't think it through completely, with regard to trials/BGs also taking a bit of time, and I was basing the time commitment on my own experience; I just played my first ToT game yesterday.
(and I would also welcome ToT being added to Endeavors [I like and enjoy playing the card game], but I just started with it). Like I said above, I'm not one of the people who complain about Endeavors taking too long. You just apparently decided that I was one of those people.)

But you can make your points without being insulting or sarcastic. That will end up biting you. (speaking from experience, so take that as some friendly advice.)

Oh! C'mon... sarcastic: yes, insulting: no. I'm sorry if you felt that way.

Understood. Peace. No hard feelings?

And just to reiterate, to get the thread back on topic (my bad), I'm on-board with ToT-based Endeavors.
I'm still just an Initiate, but I'm enjoying the game very much.

SeaGtGruff

As far as whether a ToT endeavor should be for completing a PvP or PvE match, if one of the goals were to get more players to try ToT then a PvE match would be better, since getting soundly thrashed in a PvP match might just reinforce someone's opinion that ToT is not something they would enjoy playing.

Groterdan wrote: »

Tot no thx . Waiste of time and recources such a shame they actually added it.

I was against the idea at first, back when some players started asking ZOS to incorporate TES:Legends into ESO. And when it was released, I didn't really expect to enjoy it. But I find I'm enjoying it immensely, and I'm glad they didn't make it a copy-paste of TES:Legends. In my opinion, it's turned out to be a terrific addition to ESO.