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Why does negate only effect magicka abilities and ultimates ?

AdamLAD
AdamLAD
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For years magicka players have been at a disadvantage due to negate only effecting magicka skills. Why is this the case ? Why does it not effect stamina abilities? Can Zenimax or Anyone else clarify as to why this is still the case
Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 7, 2023 5:54PM
  • Kisakee
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    If they shut your mouth with magic you can't recite spells but you can still ram your sword into someone, even in complete silence.
    "I don't know who you are, but i will find you and i will rob you." - Liam Thiefsson
  • MaleAmazon
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    Yeah, this is strange. Basically, it is a version of the 'Silence' effect from single-player TES that was put in from the beginning and, like a lot of content, was just never bothered to be changed, since it´s just not that imbalanced.

    Though it does make more sense to negate magic than to somehow prevent people from swinging their weapon.

    If that makes sense.
    Edited by MaleAmazon on March 6, 2023 8:53PM
  • AdamLAD
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    I'd rather it be fair and balanced than work in terms of physical logic
  • Kisakee
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    AdamLAD wrote: »
    I'd rather it be fair and balanced than work in terms of physical logic

    You're talking about PvP, nothing there will ever be fair or balanced. If they start modifying one skill someone else will ask for a second one. And a third. It will never end.
    "I don't know who you are, but i will find you and i will rob you." - Liam Thiefsson
  • AdamLAD
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    It still doesn't answer the question. Why does it only effects magicka abilities. Can someone directly answer this
  • kypranb14_ESO
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    Last time this was brought up I suggested adding a physical counterpart to Silence, "Blind."

    Just a thought though.
  • Necrotech_Master
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    because thats how its worked since launch?

    and one of the reasons i prefer stam builds over mag because of negate lol
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Tommy_The_Gun
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    AdamLAD wrote: »
    It still doesn't answer the question. Why does it only effects magicka abilities. Can someone directly answer this
    If negate would block stamina abilities too, it would be also blocking your "core combat abilities" - as those consume stamina. I mean, it would be weird if it prohibited your from "swinging the sword" (Uppercut for example), but you could still use your shield to block an attack roly-poly every attack or sprint. Not to mention, if it blocked both mag & stam then it would be kinda broken if you ask me.
    Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on March 6, 2023 9:28PM
  • Marcus684
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    AdamLAD wrote: »
    It still doesn't answer the question. Why does it only effects magicka abilities. Can someone directly answer this

    As far as I know the original game developers don’t hang out in these forums answering questions so you’re probably not going to get an answer beyond, “because that’s how they designed it”. It’s called “Negate Magic”, not “Negate All Skills” is a direct answer.
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Also works on blood magic like the Blood Fountain, Blood Frenzy, and Blood for blood, and free to cast channels like Introspection.

    Silence is an effect from the older games that shut off a person's ability to use magic. It never stopped a warrior from slicing you in two with a greatsword.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • AdamLAD
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    It doesn't answer the question. Why did they design something to only effect magicka abilities. It's not exactly fair ?????
  • jaws343
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    AdamLAD wrote: »
    It still doesn't answer the question. Why does it only effects magicka abilities. Can someone directly answer this
    If negate would block stamina abilities too, it would be also blocking your "core combat abilities" - as those consume stamina. I mean, it would be weird if it prohibited your from "swinging the sword" (Uppercut for example), but you could still use your shield to block an attack roly-poly every attack or sprint. Not to mention, if it blocked both mag & stam then it would be kinda broken if you ask me.

    Or... it could just negate active skills and leave core combat abilities entirely alone. It doesn't HAVE to impact those at all. Just skills you put on your bar.
  • NordSwordnBoard
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    AdamLAD wrote: »
    It doesn't answer the question. Why did they design something to only effect magicka abilities. It's not exactly fair ?????
    Marcus684 wrote: »
    AdamLAD wrote: »
    It still doesn't answer the question. Why does it only effects magicka abilities. Can someone directly answer this

    As far as I know the original game developers don’t hang out in these forums answering questions so you’re probably not going to get an answer beyond, “because that’s how they designed it”. It’s called “Negate Magic”, not “Negate All Skills” is a direct answer.

    This is the answer, its not what you were after but it is the answer.
    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • olsborg
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    Its an outdated Ultimate in that regard, as are many other ultimates. NBs shadow skill line ultimate is a joke.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • greenmachine86
    The benefits of mag is that you can do damage from range while stam builds (excluding bow) need to be in close quarters. If negate nullified stam it would prevent all damage as mag can move out of negate and resume damage where stam would not be able to.
  • OBJnoob
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    I think the answers here suffice. It's a Silence... Not much else to say.

    But yes I agree it's not fair. Would be cool if one morph silenced magicka and one morph silenced (or whatever,) stamina... Not including core combat skills.

    Does the healing or damage morph really matter?? I don't think it's ever saved or killed anyone directly. Not in PvP anyway.

    Or maybe the Arcanist will have something that stops stam abilities. That'd work for me.
  • MEBengalsFan2001
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    Negate should be adjusted. One morph does magic and the other does stamina. Or make it so it effects both magic and stamina.

    Better yet, maybe Arcanist will have an ultimate that negates stamina. That would be a good thing have with a new class coming out.
  • OBJnoob
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    Awkward lol.
  • Paralyse
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    That would be severely overpowered.

    Characters affected by this physics-and-logic-defying "stamina negate" would be unable to use skills, block, roll dodge, sprint, etc. It would basically be a combination slow/stun. Negate for magicka is a silence, it blocks the casting of magicka-based abilities but does not affect a player's ability to do the above things. They can roll dodge, sprint, block, or otherwise simply get out of the bubble.

    You want to talk about unfair? Giving players a baseline skill that makes other players unable to do anything at all to get away from you for the duration is unfair. Bombers, Necromancers and people running Dark Convergence, would have a field day with it, though, since no one would be able to escape the danger zone. It would also break stealth (which needs stamina to function.)
    Paralyse, Sanguine's Tester - Enjoying ESO since beta. Trial clears: vSS HM, Crag HM's, vRG Oax HM, vMoL DD, vKA HM, vCR+1, vAS IR, vDSR, vSE
  • joseayalac
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    It's a typical magical effect from games, Silence means that the affected creatures can't cast spells or use magic. But using a sword or moving around, doesn't require magic.

    Magicka is not the same as Stamina. Even if most things in the game are hybridized.

    Another example is that roll dodges, sprinting, etc. cost Stamina but not Magicka, because both resources do have implications on how they function.

    At the end of the day it has to make sense thematically, because otherwise we wouldn't even know what is that our character is doing in game.
  • AndreNoir
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    The benefits of mag is
    ...not exist
  • OBJnoob
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    Paralyse wrote: »
    That would be severely overpowered.

    Characters affected by this physics-and-logic-defying "stamina negate" would be unable to use skills, block, roll dodge, sprint, etc. It would basically be a combination slow/stun. Negate for magicka is a silence, it blocks the casting of magicka-based abilities but does not affect a player's ability to do the above things. They can roll dodge, sprint, block, or otherwise simply get out of the bubble.

    You want to talk about unfair? Giving players a baseline skill that makes other players unable to do anything at all to get away from you for the duration is unfair. Bombers, Necromancers and people running Dark Convergence, would have a field day with it, though, since no one would be able to escape the danger zone. It would also break stealth (which needs stamina to function.)

    Would it really be that hard to exclude core combat abilities from the list? I don't think anyone is suggesting the Negate should stop those.

    If there were a Stam-Negate magic characters could streak or mist form out. Which is arguably better than running or rolling.

    The truth is honestly Stam-Negate wouldn't be as powerful as current Negate. The point of a negate is to stop a large group of players from healing for one or two seconds while they are ulti dumped. I don't think stopping Vigor is going to be as detrimental as stopping Breath of Life, Coag, Matriarch, Healthy Offering, Regen, etc etc.

    Are we really going to drop a Negate just to make someone stop Dizzy Swinging us?
  • SeaGtGruff
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    MaleAmazon wrote: »
    Yeah, this is strange. Basically, it is a version of the 'Silence' effect from single-player TES that was put in from the beginning and, like a lot of content, was just never bothered to be changed, since it´s just not that imbalanced.

    Though it does make more sense to negate magic than to somehow prevent people from swinging their weapon.

    If that makes sense.

    From other TES games, the rough equivalent for preventing Stamina (or purely physical) abilities would be Paralyzation.

    Paralyzation stops someone from being able to physically attack but doesn't stop them from being able to cast spells.

    Conversely, Silence stops someone from being able to cast spells but doesn't stop them from being able to physically attack.
    AdamLAD wrote: »
    It still doesn't answer the question. Why does it only effects magicka abilities. Can someone directly answer this
    AdamLAD wrote: »
    It doesn't answer the question. Why did they design something to only effect magicka abilities. It's not exactly fair ?????

    You've been given the answer to your first question multiple times. That's what it does. Period. You might as well ask why Restore Health potions don't restore Magicka, or why Restore Magicka potions don't restore Stamina. They do what they do, and that's what they do. If they did something else, they wouldn't be what they are, they'd be something else.

    The answer to your second question can only be answered by a dev, but there are abilities which can be used to counter and prevent Stamina-based actions, such as blocking, bashing, fearing, stunning, etc. I'm not sure whether there's an actual Paralyzation effect per se, as in other TES games, but there are ways to severely slow down and hinder physical movement.
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • Dojohoda
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    My favorite part is that a negate can negate a negate. :D Or that might be an unfavorite part, I cannot decide. I suppose the team with the most negates has the last word on the matter.
    Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
    Might be joking in comments.
    -->(((Cyrodiil)))<--
  • Rebirthment
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    I wish negate had its silence effect work more in PvE. I feel like alot of mobs just ignore it even trash mobs besides the nice stun
  • Blood_again
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    Really there are lots of magica/stamina balancing aspects.
    Negating magic is just one of them.
    You can't use mana skills in negate. Bad for manabuild.
    You can't spam shields for stamina. Bad for stambuild.
    You have less resource for block, rolldodge and breakfree. Bad for manabuild.
    You're unable to block, roll or break when you're dry on stamina as main resource, and full pool of magica won't help you. Bad for stambuild.
    There are different weapon and healing abilities that works better for mana or stam as well.
    Lots of them.
    There were also balancing aspects about light/medium gear. But they lost their strong binding to mana/stamina builds a few patches ago.

    We can discuss that this difference is not fair. But really I guess that totally fair balance there could be achieved with removing one of resources only. Eracing difference between mana/stamina builds. Having only health and stamina as DarkSouls clones or so.
    To be fair I strongly dislike this kind of solution and I hope that's never gonna happen with ESO.
  • The_Titan_Tim
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    An easy way to accomplish a Stamina version of Negate, would be to create a morph that puts immense weight on a player, similar to Encumbrance in prior TES games.

    Dark Souls has an ability similar to what I’m talking about, it’s called Tranquil Walk of Peace,
    here it is in action…

    https://youtu.be/_EbBlAzqFq0

    This could be an alternate morph option to replace the healing version of it, and would see so much playtime if it created a 70% or higher snare while also preventing roll dodge within the sphere.
    Edited by The_Titan_Tim on March 7, 2023 3:19AM
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    AdamLAD wrote: »
    It still doesn't answer the question. Why does it only effects magicka abilities. Can someone directly answer this
    If negate would block stamina abilities too, it would be also blocking your "core combat abilities" - as those consume stamina. I mean, it would be weird if it prohibited your from "swinging the sword" (Uppercut for example), but you could still use your shield to block an attack roly-poly every attack or sprint. Not to mention, if it blocked both mag & stam then it would be kinda broken if you ask me.

    What happens when you're using the new Mythic that converts core combat abilities into Magicka-cost if you're under a Negate? Can you not use them?

    I've never thought to test that.
  • zaria
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    Related why does negate stop you from setting up siege?
    I assume its an magic ability because you get it from hammerspace? even if they can stop you setting up not only summoning.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • INM
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    Because it was designed when the game barely had any stamina skills, but now, when we have "the same as magicka, but green skills" it absolutely should work on every skills with the exception of core-combat abilities for obvious reasons.
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