Destructible milegates NOT BALANCED at all.

Holycannoli

Marcus684 wrote: »

This obsession with “balance” is misplaced. ZOS appears to have made a token attempt to approximate similar conditions for all 3 alliances, but obviously hasn’t made the map exactly “balanced”. Each alliance has minor advantages and disadvantages with respect to things such as milegate/bridge construction, keep and resource placement, and outpost/town placement. This post is pointing out the “imbalance” in the milegate details, while ignoring the “imbalance” of the location of Harlun’s vs. Winter’s Peak/Carmala, or the differences in terrain between Arrius/Glademist/Faregyl that make countering siege more or less difficult.

As others have said, this “imbalance” is minor and easily compensated for by a short ride to the west. In fact, I’ve noticed that DC gets pretty complacent when Ash Milegate is blocked and tends to let their collective guard down, making us ripe for an attacker that is willing to spend the extra 2 minutes going around.

Yeah that's when Ray or Glade are hit, or even Warden. The other two milegates are never watched, nor is the path. The entire AD faction can ride through them and no DC would know until the keep is lit.

OtarTheMad

VvwvenomwvV wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Get a ganker to walk around, kill the dude, burn the siege and camp, and then repair the gate... winner.

It confuses me to no end how these milegates get destroyed and all momentum is gone. Idk how many times EP has destroyed the Chalman milegate and DC is just lost... it's like they revert to cavemen "No go, what do now?" They don't even look at the map and see that the other two gates are passable and the goat path is also an option.

DC at the gates:

Honestly, before the milegates were destroyable groups would just camp it and set up ap farms so they'd still be unpassable.

AD is the only faction that has to go completely out of the way to do this. Hence "UNBALANCED".

AD should have the same as DC,and EP.

I guess it just depends on how you look at it. I don’t see how it is unbalanced. AD has an open field pretty much to take a good portion of the map without having to deal with a milegate. Alesia bridge might be camped or destroyed but no one touches the others or the goat path. So AD is clear to take BB, BM, Fare, Brindle, Carmala, Roe, Nikel, Alessia, Crops, Vlast, Drake, Harluns, Farra, Kings, Arrius, Chal, BRK and Sej all before hitting a milegate. That’s a big advantage. EP can do the same too. Bridges are also more of a pain in the butt to destroy and keep destroyed.

Now that may make it look like DC is the one with the most disadvantage but I see it that DC is the easiest to protect because you destroy the Ash gate and the Chal gate and camp those… sorry but from the looks of it from this thread and what happens on the map… NO ONE is going to use any of the other gates or paths so DC is closed off.

AD also has two capturable/merch towns in their territory with Vlast and Crops, even though crops is EP it’s in AD land. So it depends on how you look at it in my opinion.

Finedaible

Regardless of any balance implications, destructible milegates has never enhanced the Cyrodill experience for the better, and for all we know it may even be one of the changes which exacerbated the performance issues.

VvwvenomwvV

Only AD is forced to "go around" by using out of the way paths. The vast majority of people never use these paths.

These paths are not only accessible to AD, but can be used by everyone. This is not fair, or balanced at all.

EP, and DC have "DIRECT" paths towards objects. AD has nothing.

AD only shares out of the way paths available to everyone.

Imo, AD should have a way to still cross Lessy bridge if it is destroyed. If not that, then something on that direct path only available from AD side.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

OtarTheMad

VvwvenomwvV wrote: »

Only AD is forced to "go around" by using out of the way paths. The vast majority of people never use these paths.

These paths are not only accessible to AD, but can be used by everyone. This is not fair, or balanced at all.

EP, and DC have "DIRECT" paths towards objects. AD has nothing.

AD only shares out of the way paths available to everyone.

Imo, AD should have a way to still cross Lessy bridge if it is destroyed. If not that, then something on that direct path only available from AD side.

Wait wait wait... so you want AD to have their own Ash/Chal-like milegate that they can destroy and "only they" can climb the steps and jump over?

Let's say ZOS does this, replaces Alessia bridge with a milegate... AD is so happy for some odd "special" reason and keeps it destroyed. Until they realize that everyone just uses the goat path 5 seconds down the road or one of the other bridges no one pays attention to. I don't see how this accomplishes anything or "balances" anything...

Like @Marcus684 said, every side has advantages and disadvantages. True and actual perfect balance will never exist.

Holycannoli

VvwvenomwvV wrote: »

Only AD is forced to "go around" by using out of the way paths. The vast majority of people never use these paths.

These paths are not only accessible to AD, but can be used by everyone. This is not fair, or balanced at all.

EP, and DC have "DIRECT" paths towards objects. AD has nothing.

AD only shares out of the way paths available to everyone.

That's not true. ED has the Chal gate that only they can climb over. When destroyed DC has to go through another milegate or the path.

The Ash gate is constantly destroyed because AD is always beelining to Ash. It's a simple, direct route to action. DC doesn't beeline to Chal nearly as often and so that Chal gate is rarely an issue.

It's weird that AD doesn't want to use one of the other two gates or the path when Ash is destroyed, and is actually complaining about it. Like I said, the other two gates are never watched. If the objective is to capture keeps and resources for points they should be used. If the objective is to stay lazy and just run toward instant action then yeah people will complain about the Ash gate.

VvwvenomwvV

Again, ONLY AD has to go around and use another route.

ONLY AD HAS NO ""DIRECT PATH".

Ramps:

Ep to DC check

DC to AD check

AD to EP NOPE!....

Go around...use a different gate ( that is also destroyed ) use a pass ( that is really out of the way, and can be used by everyone ).

ONLY AD is at a "DIRECT PATH" disadvantage.

UNBALANCED.

Dojohoda

Related screen shot.
I took this a few minutes ago as can be seen by the timestamp which I moved to the map area.

TechMaybeHic

Dojohoda wrote: »

Related screen shot.
I took this a few minutes ago as can be seen by the timestamp which I moved to the map area.

Kind of supports AD having a path to EP over the destroyed bridge if you ask me, seeing as all bridges are down and AD is then all the way up the left side of the map.

I honestly am not sure why other DC are not for this.

VvwvenomwvV

A cherry-picked screen shot does not change the facts.

Ep has ramps that allows them direct access to DC.

DC has ramps that allows direct access to AD.

AD has no ramps at all.

Bridges, and passes are available to everyone.

The Lessy bridge is also used against AD 50% of the time, blocking AD direct access towards EP.

Most players won't "go around" and use the bridge further south. Most will go left on a "direct path" towards DC. This might be what happened in your screen shot above....which further proves my point.

AD doesn't have a direct path towards EP. You would think DC would agree on this.

Regardless of what faction you like, it doesn't change the facts. It is unbalanced.

AD should have the same as EP, and DC. No more, no less. Just the same. Direct access towards EP. That completes the circle.

VvwvenomwvV

This is what Gray Host looks like right now when I got on.

I can't get the image to upload. Anyway, the while map is red.

Reverb

I haven’t seen OP address why they don’t just siege down the sides of the gate so DC can’t get over. They are welcome to keep players there sieging so it can’t be repaired, and have a camp on their side as well. The ability to equalize the gate mechanic is there, they just aren’t using it.

Four_Fingers

Exactly

Marcus684

Reverb wrote: »

I haven’t seen OP address why they don’t just siege down the sides of the gate so DC can’t get over. They are welcome to keep players there sieging so it can’t be repaired, and have a camp on their side as well. The ability to equalize the gate mechanic is there, they just aren’t using it.

They seem to be focused on the perceived “unfairness” of it, rather than looking for ways to compensate for it. I doubt that ZOS will listen but at least they get to be heard.

TechMaybeHic

No. They're not looking at their inability to stop others from crossing. It's their lack of ability to have a one way.

Besides that; it already takes a VERY uneven amount of time to take to impassable vs repair to passable. Making it take 3 times as long more is not really a solution to anything.

Again; as a DC player since launch; I agree with AD on this. It really does not impact DC negatively at all if they get the counterclockwise circle completed. Not sure why I see so many DC logos and names against it. Going to start accusing you as being EP spies 😉

xFocused

OtarTheMad wrote: »

VvwvenomwvV wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Get a ganker to walk around, kill the dude, burn the siege and camp, and then repair the gate... winner.

It confuses me to no end how these milegates get destroyed and all momentum is gone. Idk how many times EP has destroyed the Chalman milegate and DC is just lost... it's like they revert to cavemen "No go, what do now?" They don't even look at the map and see that the other two gates are passable and the goat path is also an option.

DC at the gates:

Honestly, before the milegates were destroyable groups would just camp it and set up ap farms so they'd still be unpassable.

AD is the only faction that has to go completely out of the way to do this. Hence "UNBALANCED".

AD should have the same as DC,and EP.

I guess it just depends on how you look at it. I don’t see how it is unbalanced. AD has an open field pretty much to take a good portion of the map without having to deal with a milegate. Alesia bridge might be camped or destroyed but no one touches the others or the goat path. So AD is clear to take BB, BM, Fare, Brindle, Carmala, Roe, Nikel, Alessia, Crops, Vlast, Drake, Harluns, Farra, Kings, Arrius, Chal, BRK and Sej all before hitting a milegate. That’s a big advantage. EP can do the same too. Bridges are also more of a pain in the butt to destroy and keep destroyed.

Now that may make it look like DC is the one with the most disadvantage but I see it that DC is the easiest to protect because you destroy the Ash gate and the Chal gate and camp those… sorry but from the looks of it from this thread and what happens on the map… NO ONE is going to use any of the other gates or paths so DC is closed off.

AD also has two capturable/merch towns in their territory with Vlast and Crops, even though crops is EP it’s in AD land. So it depends on how you look at it in my opinion.

This is 100% spot on. As someone who plays EP, AD will have pretty much all of these keeps/outposts and towns majority of the campaign with only bridges to worry about. In my opinion, I don't see this as unbalanced

Holycannoli

Maybe I'm not understanding what these ramps are. Are they the actual ramps on one side of a milegate?

Because if so I see the issue. EP can hop over destroyed gates to DC, DC can hop over destroyed gates to AD, AD cannot hop over destroyed bridges to EP.

I think I finally see the issue here. I was misunderstanding it.

It's still not a large issue though. I don't think it will be on the devs' priority list. The bridges don't affect the flow of Cyrodiil nearly enough to make much of a difference that AD can't cross them when destroyed. To be honest I don't think they care at all.

VvwvenomwvV

To address a few things: AD shouldn't have to do extra work to further destroy a mile gate that DC doesn't have to do on their end. DC puts a camp right on their side, and goes straight over the ramps as they keep the siege / repair on their end. AD can't repair it while it's being damaged, and the camp allows them to insta-spawn on their safety side and stop any attack.

As for the towns: First off, this is a different matter all together, but I'll address it anyway. The towns are not balanced either. Not joking. Vast, and Crops allows EP, a d DC a backdoor straight to AD home keeps. AD home keeps are hit way more often than EP, or DC. It's all day, everyday. In fact, I would like Zos to do the analytics on how often AD home keeps are being hit vs EP, and DC. The other two towns Chorrol, and Cheydinhal don't count as a capture / spawn point. Only AD has the extra burden of the backdoor open to their home keeps.

The towns are not balanced either, but one thing at a time. The milegate issue is most alarming because people are abusing them as I've described several times already.

This should be fixed. It is unbalanced.

Flangdoodle

VvwvenomwvV wrote: »

I don't want to upset anyone, especially Zos. I would like to just humbly request a look at the Milegate situation. Heck, removing the destructible Milegates, and bridgedes might help with some lag as well?

I don't think they should remove them, I just think they should make the repair kits more expensive - or make them not unrepairable for a lot more time. It takes about 10-20 times more effort to knock them down than it takes to repair them. It's silly.

Flangdoodle

Oop - this is what happens when you jump to another thought before finishing your sentence - should have either said "make them not repairable" OR "make them unrepairable"

Dr_Con

Dojohoda wrote: »

Related screen shot.
I took this a few minutes ago as can be seen by the timestamp which I moved to the map area.

this is what the map looks like when you look at cyrodiil while not in cyrodiil. you can still see the location of scrolls and what keeps/outposts/towns are lit, but you can't see the status of the milegates/bridges accurately.

You can further tell it's taken from outside of cyrodiil because the map realistically wouldn't look this way if the gates and milegates were all broken, breaking them is a defensive strategy- there's no reason to break the ash, priory, and chorrol milegates when you control ash, nikel, and aleswell, or carmala and rayles