Are One Handed Weapons faster than Staves and 2H weapons for Light Attacks?

Zama666

Any1 know?
And by how much faster?

I would think so - they are smaller and do less damage.

Just wonder if two LA from a 1H i just as good damage/pen as a 2H or Staff...

Help?

Thanks,

Z

SkaraMinoc

All light attacks have a 0.7s cooldown.

Calculating the damage difference isn't straightforward. In general, two handed light attacks (including bows/staves) do more damage than one handed because the base weapon damage is higher. Melee light attacks scale slightly better than ranged as detailed in the coefficients. But this doesn't mean that melee light attacks always do more damage. Weapon passives affect light attack damage as well.

https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php

aaisoaho

Plus all skills (with some exceptions like the templar's execute beam skill) have under a 1 second cast duration and all skills share a 1 second cooldown. This means that the weapon skills cannot be casted faster than once a second, just like any other skill.

KilianDermoth

If you use light attack weaving = you cancel the light attack with a skill so that all weapons need exactly 0 time, because you can immediately cast the skill after the light attack was triggered, no matter if the animation has completed or not (animation canceling) the damage still gets through (+ the damage of the skill). You can repeat this every second (cooldown of the skill, not the light attack, because it just doesnt matter).

Zama666

KilianDermoth wrote: »

If you use light attack weaving = you cancel the light attack with a skill so that all weapons need exactly 0 time, because you can immediately cast the skill after the light attack was triggered, no matter if the animation has completed or not (animation canceling) the damage still gets through (+ the damage of the skill). You can repeat this every second (cooldown of the skill, not the light attack, because it just doesnt matter).

My timing sucks for LA weaving....combat metrics usually shows my skill triggering, but almost never my LA...

guess I practice more...

ESO_Nightingale

Zama666 wrote: »

KilianDermoth wrote: »

If you use light attack weaving = you cancel the light attack with a skill so that all weapons need exactly 0 time, because you can immediately cast the skill after the light attack was triggered, no matter if the animation has completed or not (animation canceling) the damage still gets through (+ the damage of the skill). You can repeat this every second (cooldown of the skill, not the light attack, because it just doesnt matter).

My timing sucks for LA weaving....combat metrics usually shows my skill triggering, but almost never my LA...

guess I practice more...

That's the attitude that i like to see! rather than complaining it's cheating and that it should be removed from the game because you can't be bothered to practice, you're saying to yourself that you should practice more to improve at it! There's too many people that don't do that. And for some people i understand being frustrated due to hand injuries etc, but for the rest of them there's no excuse. Heavy attack builds work pretty well now too so there's always that option open to them.

Necrotech_Master

ranged weapons sometimes feel slower because they are also accompanied by projectile travel times, which is noticeable if your doing a light weave from range, but less noticeable if your in melee range

aaisoaho

Zama666 wrote: »

KilianDermoth wrote: »

If you use light attack weaving = you cancel the light attack with a skill so that all weapons need exactly 0 time, because you can immediately cast the skill after the light attack was triggered, no matter if the animation has completed or not (animation canceling) the damage still gets through (+ the damage of the skill). You can repeat this every second (cooldown of the skill, not the light attack, because it just doesnt matter).

My timing sucks for LA weaving....combat metrics usually shows my skill triggering, but almost never my LA...

guess I practice more...

That might be you trying to go too fast. If skills are casted faster than once a second, they queue, which means the next skill will cast itself as soon as the global cooldown of skills ends, overriding any other action you took - mainly the light attack.

To get it right, you need to cast a light attack instantly followed by a skill cast and then wait. To practice weaving, all you need to do is tap-tap - press two buttons back to back. Like imagine pressing two different buttons fast back to back. When your first finger releases the first button, your next finger should be about to press the second button. Now replace the first button with your light attack key/button and the second button with the skill you want to cast. Tap-tap. Then you wait for about a second to time the skill casts one second apart from each other. Tap-tap. Wait. Tap-tap. Wait.

You can practice the tap-tap part separately by making the waiting time as long as you want. When it starts to come naturally, you start to shorten the waiting time to get the skill casts closer. Just do not try to go too fast at the beginning, since that will cause the skills queueing.

El_Borracho

Zama666 wrote: »

KilianDermoth wrote: »

If you use light attack weaving = you cancel the light attack with a skill so that all weapons need exactly 0 time, because you can immediately cast the skill after the light attack was triggered, no matter if the animation has completed or not (animation canceling) the damage still gets through (+ the damage of the skill). You can repeat this every second (cooldown of the skill, not the light attack, because it just doesnt matter).

My timing sucks for LA weaving....combat metrics usually shows my skill triggering, but almost never my LA...

guess I practice more...

I think staves are easier to LA with because the animation is more obvious for when to cancel the animation than a 2H. Its not a speed thing, its more a rhythm. Most who are "bad" at it try to cram too many LA and skills together. The key is to allow the animation of the skill to occur before hitting the next LA. Its more of a heartbeat rhythm than a straightforward 1-2

Yazrz

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Zama666 wrote: »

KilianDermoth wrote: »

If you use light attack weaving = you cancel the light attack with a skill so that all weapons need exactly 0 time, because you can immediately cast the skill after the light attack was triggered, no matter if the animation has completed or not (animation canceling) the damage still gets through (+ the damage of the skill). You can repeat this every second (cooldown of the skill, not the light attack, because it just doesnt matter).

My timing sucks for LA weaving....combat metrics usually shows my skill triggering, but almost never my LA...

guess I practice more...

That's the attitude that i like to see! rather than complaining it's cheating and that it should be removed from the game because you can't be bothered to practice, you're saying to yourself that you should practice more to improve at it! There's too many people that don't do that. And for some people i understand being frustrated due to hand injuries etc, but for the rest of them there's no excuse. Heavy attack builds work pretty well now too so there's always that option open to them.

The key point is that not everyone appreciates LA weaving. Saying "there's no excuse" is a bit silly, where people may just not like it. In a game where playing your own way with allowing all weapons on all classes, forcing everyone into a very specific way of playing seems contrary to the core idea of ESO.

Zama666

LA is a skill and needs to be learned.
That is what makes the game fun!

Oddly, I really had not idea about it because this game is about discovery, not a 'here's the handbook'

I have watched some videos. Trying to do it with Power Slam and LA....guess I will go beat on that dummy again.

Jabs and LA were even worse for me!

Using an Xbox controller on my PC.
Or is keyboard better?

Yazrz

It should not be a need to learn it, but rather an option, as the definition of fun is very different from person to person.

Having a diverse set of possible builds using varying APM and/or timing needs would seem to make much more sense, especially in a game that is advertised as one where the player can define their own way of playing to a large extent.

ESO_Nightingale

Yazrz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Zama666 wrote: »

KilianDermoth wrote: »

If you use light attack weaving = you cancel the light attack with a skill so that all weapons need exactly 0 time, because you can immediately cast the skill after the light attack was triggered, no matter if the animation has completed or not (animation canceling) the damage still gets through (+ the damage of the skill). You can repeat this every second (cooldown of the skill, not the light attack, because it just doesnt matter).

My timing sucks for LA weaving....combat metrics usually shows my skill triggering, but almost never my LA...

guess I practice more...

That's the attitude that i like to see! rather than complaining it's cheating and that it should be removed from the game because you can't be bothered to practice, you're saying to yourself that you should practice more to improve at it! There's too many people that don't do that. And for some people i understand being frustrated due to hand injuries etc, but for the rest of them there's no excuse. Heavy attack builds work pretty well now too so there's always that option open to them.

The key point is that not everyone appreciates LA weaving. Saying "there's no excuse" is a bit silly, where people may just not like it. In a game where playing your own way with allowing all weapons on all classes, forcing everyone into a very specific way of playing seems contrary to the core idea of ESO.

they don't have to do it, but the point is, that the people that complain and want it removed from the game are the problem when there are ways around it.

Yazrz

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Yazrz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Zama666 wrote: »

KilianDermoth wrote: »

If you use light attack weaving = you cancel the light attack with a skill so that all weapons need exactly 0 time, because you can immediately cast the skill after the light attack was triggered, no matter if the animation has completed or not (animation canceling) the damage still gets through (+ the damage of the skill). You can repeat this every second (cooldown of the skill, not the light attack, because it just doesnt matter).

My timing sucks for LA weaving....combat metrics usually shows my skill triggering, but almost never my LA...

guess I practice more...

That's the attitude that i like to see! rather than complaining it's cheating and that it should be removed from the game because you can't be bothered to practice, you're saying to yourself that you should practice more to improve at it! There's too many people that don't do that. And for some people i understand being frustrated due to hand injuries etc, but for the rest of them there's no excuse. Heavy attack builds work pretty well now too so there's always that option open to them.

The key point is that not everyone appreciates LA weaving. Saying "there's no excuse" is a bit silly, where people may just not like it. In a game where playing your own way with allowing all weapons on all classes, forcing everyone into a very specific way of playing seems contrary to the core idea of ESO.

they don't have to do it, but the point is, that the people that complain and want it removed from the game are the problem when there are ways around it.

I would say that the problem is rather that there is not enough ways around it, if people going far enough to requesting it to be removed. (And I am not sure that there actually are that many that do state this)

I understand that changing the current skills would not be appropriate, but it would not be too difficult to add new sets that enable new and interesting rotations.

ESO_Nightingale

Yazrz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Yazrz wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Zama666 wrote: »

KilianDermoth wrote: »

If you use light attack weaving = you cancel the light attack with a skill so that all weapons need exactly 0 time, because you can immediately cast the skill after the light attack was triggered, no matter if the animation has completed or not (animation canceling) the damage still gets through (+ the damage of the skill). You can repeat this every second (cooldown of the skill, not the light attack, because it just doesnt matter).

My timing sucks for LA weaving....combat metrics usually shows my skill triggering, but almost never my LA...

guess I practice more...

That's the attitude that i like to see! rather than complaining it's cheating and that it should be removed from the game because you can't be bothered to practice, you're saying to yourself that you should practice more to improve at it! There's too many people that don't do that. And for some people i understand being frustrated due to hand injuries etc, but for the rest of them there's no excuse. Heavy attack builds work pretty well now too so there's always that option open to them.

The key point is that not everyone appreciates LA weaving. Saying "there's no excuse" is a bit silly, where people may just not like it. In a game where playing your own way with allowing all weapons on all classes, forcing everyone into a very specific way of playing seems contrary to the core idea of ESO.

they don't have to do it, but the point is, that the people that complain and want it removed from the game are the problem when there are ways around it.

I would say that the problem is rather that there is not enough ways around it, if people going far enough to requesting it to be removed. (And I am not sure that there actually are that many that do state this)

I understand that changing the current skills would not be appropriate, but it would not be too difficult to add new sets that enable new and interesting rotations.

they recently made heavy attack builds far stronger so i'm sure thats on the radar.

Yazrz

Agreed, that is a step in the right direction to add more options!

Zama666

Yazrz wrote: »

It should not be a need to learn it, but rather an option, as the definition of fun is very different from person to person.

Having a diverse set of possible builds using varying APM and/or timing needs would seem to make much more sense, especially in a game that is advertised as one where the player can define their own way of playing to a large extent.

That is an interesting point @Yazrz
if it it was an option and some1 chose to use it, should they get less rewards? Easy mode less, expert more?
Would that be fair to the expert (in PvP)

In the olden days..... there were different regions of difficulty. I remember going to a level 40+ area when I was not ready and got smoked. I think now I could do it with a level 20+ character...Why...skill.

I look at I like school for a bad example...everyone starts somewhere, and some thing require more and more knowledge and skill. Those skill usually get higher rewards.

Or professional sport - there is a difference in kids playing and .. the major leagues.

What would you propose?

A beginner version of ESO? And Expert?

If you don't mine - how long have you been playing?

Just a real interesting response you provided!

Thanks for that!

Z

Yazrz

Zama666 wrote: »

Yazrz wrote: »

It should not be a need to learn it, but rather an option, as the definition of fun is very different from person to person.

Having a diverse set of possible builds using varying APM and/or timing needs would seem to make much more sense, especially in a game that is advertised as one where the player can define their own way of playing to a large extent.

That is an interesting point @Yazrz
if it it was an option and some1 chose to use it, should they get less rewards? Easy mode less, expert more?
Would that be fair to the expert (in PvP)

In the olden days..... there were different regions of difficulty. I remember going to a level 40+ area when I was not ready and got smoked. I think now I could do it with a level 20+ character...Why...skill.

I look at I like school for a bad example...everyone starts somewhere, and some thing require more and more knowledge and skill. Those skill usually get higher rewards.

Or professional sport - there is a difference in kids playing and .. the major leagues.

What would you propose?

A beginner version of ESO? And Expert?

If you don't mine - how long have you been playing?

Just a real interesting response you provided!

Thanks for that!

Z

Maybe I should have prefaced my comment to clarify that I was speaking about PvE. PVP is a different ball-game, and I have no opinions on how that should be balanced.

But for PVE, I definitely do not think basing rewards on skill (in general) makes sense, it would lock too many people out of content (and therefore the content in question would get less focus). Of course there could always be specific rewards and achievements for pulling off difficult tasks, and having end game trials/arenas being locked behind skill can also make sense.

But either the game needs to scale over time to allow more people to access that content over time, or having different difficulty settings like Veteran / Hard mode to ensure that those that want a challenge can get it. But that being said, there needs to be a balance in scaling e.g. for damage. As I have said elsewhere, allowing increased DPS with increased skill in performing a rotation is a valid gameplay balance, but the difference needs to be reasonable between low and high skill. And as said above, just having LA weaving and/or high APM being the skill in question is a bit too limited, there are other ways to make rotations interesting.

I have been playing ESO for 3 years or so, but MMOs in general for 15 years.