How come Knight Slayer is never recommended for Heavy Attack builds?

Goxis

I've been looking at a lot of HA builds and the sets I always see are Sergeants Mail and either Storm Master or Noble Duelist. I never see Knight Slayer but doesn't Knight Slayer do more damage than all three to most mobs? Also, it does Oblivion damage, isn't that better for PVP? I couldn't find much information about the set other than some posts on Reddit saying it wasn't a good set but I don't understand why.

pikHz

Knight Slayer has gotten somewhat popular in PVP for tank busting due to being Oblivion damage yea. For PVE, Oblivion damage can't crit and Knight Slayer only procs on the fully charged tick of the heavy. PVE heavy attack builds typically use lightning staves which tick I believe 3 times. Sergeant's, Storm Master, and Noble affect all ticks not just the fully charged one. Since they're not capped like KS is and can crit, they'll dish out way more PVE damage after Empower, CP, and whatever else scales up heavy attack damage.

DC137

I'm trying to get into pvp but its very hard, what sets would people pair with knight slayer? At the moment it'll be 2046 when get legate black :P

Goxis

I didn't know about not critting. Wish it would say that in the set description. I'll try out Noble Duelist then since it does more damage than Storm Master. Not sure what would go well with Knight Slayer in PVP.

Finedaible

Knight Slayer requires your opponent to have a minimum Health of 100,000 in order to deal 8,000 damage, which at that point it's relatively chip damage, and as mentioned previously Knight Slayer cannot crit and is not affected by any damage done or damage taken amplifiers at all.

As for Noble Duelist, it now strictly names its bonus against "monsters" as of a few updates ago, meaning the set has no effect whatsoever in PvP anymore.

Goxis

Finedaible wrote: »

Knight Slayer requires your opponent to have a minimum Health of 100,000 in order to deal 8,000 damage, which at that point it's relatively chip damage, and as mentioned previously Knight Slayer cannot crit and is not affected by any damage done or damage taken amplifiers at all.

As for Noble Duelist, it now strictly names its bonus against "monsters" as of a few updates ago, meaning the set has no effect whatsoever in PvP anymore.

That's a good point for PVP but is that a new update because I still see Noble Duelist in build videos as recent as recent as 2 weeks ago.

Finedaible

Goxis wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Knight Slayer requires your opponent to have a minimum Health of 100,000 in order to deal 8,000 damage, which at that point it's relatively chip damage, and as mentioned previously Knight Slayer cannot crit and is not affected by any damage done or damage taken amplifiers at all.

As for Noble Duelist, it now strictly names its bonus against "monsters" as of a few updates ago, meaning the set has no effect whatsoever in PvP anymore.

That's a good point for PVP but is that a new update because I still see Noble Duelist in build videos as recent as recent as 2 weeks ago.

You did mention PvP in the original post so that's what I assume you were talking about. If the videos you are referring to are for PvE builds then Noble Duelist will still scale better than Knight Slayer because it can crit and it can be affected by other amplifiers (like damage done, vulnerability, Berserk, Empower, etc.).

Goxis

Finedaible wrote: »

Goxis wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Knight Slayer requires your opponent to have a minimum Health of 100,000 in order to deal 8,000 damage, which at that point it's relatively chip damage, and as mentioned previously Knight Slayer cannot crit and is not affected by any damage done or damage taken amplifiers at all.

As for Noble Duelist, it now strictly names its bonus against "monsters" as of a few updates ago, meaning the set has no effect whatsoever in PvP anymore.

That's a good point for PVP but is that a new update because I still see Noble Duelist in build videos as recent as recent as 2 weeks ago.

You did mention PvP in the original post so that's what I assume you were talking about. If the videos you are referring to are for PvE builds then Noble Duelist will still scale better than Knight Slayer because it can crit and it can be affected by other amplifiers (like damage done, vulnerability, Berserk, Empower, etc.).

Ah I figured it out. There's a passive that makes heavy attacks splash all damage. So Noble Duelist works in PVP if you hit a non player such as a pet. Splashing the damage to owner and others around.

Thecompton73

Goxis wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

Knight Slayer requires your opponent to have a minimum Health of 100,000 in order to deal 8,000 damage, which at that point it's relatively chip damage, and as mentioned previously Knight Slayer cannot crit and is not affected by any damage done or damage taken amplifiers at all.

As for Noble Duelist, it now strictly names its bonus against "monsters" as of a few updates ago, meaning the set has no effect whatsoever in PvP anymore.

That's a good point for PVP but is that a new update because I still see Noble Duelist in build videos as recent as recent as 2 weeks ago.

You still see build videos with the set because people are making what are basically lighting staff PvE heavy attack builds then taking them into PvP and targeting player pets like matriarch, storm atro, wardens bear, engine guardian or Enemy NPC guards when enemy players are nearby. The splash damage from Tri-focus is 100% of the damage to the original target, and since the modifiers like empower and sets like Noble boost the damage to that target the human player also takes the boosted damage amount.

Stx

Other sets that are good for heavy attack PvP builds are mechanical acuity for burst, or deadly strike for sustained damage since deadly boosts lightning channels. I would pair one of these with knight slayer for a heavy attack build.

Necrotech_Master

Goxis wrote: »

I didn't know about not critting. Wish it would say that in the set description. I'll try out Noble Duelist then since it does more damage than Storm Master. Not sure what would go well with Knight Slayer in PVP.

oblivion dmg cannot crit, because it is scaled hp% dmg

there are some other non-oblivion procs which cannot crit, because they are also scaling dmg (zaans, relequen, dark convergence, the explosion on plaguebreak, are all examples of stuff that cannot crit either due to the dmg being scaled up)