Should we be able to buy furnishing mats at a vendor?

tincanman

LadyLethalla wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

Price aren't anywhere near outrageous if you farm them for yourself.

It took me 18 months to amass 1600 or so Dec Wax, Mundane Runes and Heartwood each. I bought Moon Sugar Meadow recently to make a wedding reception venue and I have less than 100 Dec Wax and Heartwood left each, and 500 or so Mundane Runes left, with less than 10 furnishing slots remaining. AND I bought a lot of items with gold from both guild traders and furnishing merchants, and also some items from the Crown Store.

Today, like every other day, I have been collecting every rune and wood node I have seen, and I've found less than 10 Mundane Runes and Heartwood.

So yeah... it IS cheaper if you farm them yourself, except it takes a hell of a long time, and it disappears all too quickly.

Farming results for furniture mats is random but I think you'd have to be incredibly and unbelievably unlucky to get 10 furniture mats after days or even a single day of grabbing every node in passing.

Still agnostic about a mat vendor but I'd be more in favour of extending the transmutation system to allow mats to be changed to create what you need from what your have. I think this latter approach would be more generally useful than just for furniture mats.

kargen27

"Liquidity of supply of common items would increase, liquidity of funds to buy them would increase, prices would actually behave like they would in a market that involves all players, rather than a subset of the playerbase with crimped levels of supply."

The items in question are not common items. That is the point. They are semi rare items and take time to gather. That is why they cost what they do. Making them available in the vendor takes away all incentive to farm for them and that isn't healthy for the game.

tincanman

Spent an hour this evening grabbing nodes in passing, digging up some antiquities to clear the backlog before they expire and some treasure maps.

Results(small sample sizes so please don't read too much into %):

• alchemical resin 22 (~17% of total alchemy resources collected)
• bast 13 (~5% of raw cloth collected)
• decorative wax 2 (incidental from mudcrabs)
• heartwood 14 (~7% of total raw wood collected)
• mundane rune 18 (~8% of total runes collected)
• ochre 8 (~6% of total platinum dust collected)
• regulus 21 (~6% of total metal ore collected)

Subjectively, I didn't think I had collected that much furniture mats so was surprised by the actual amounts; usually it 'feels' like I get more in passing.

In the short term, regardless of anything else that might happen like an npc vendor, it wouldn't hurt to nudge those drop rates up a bit.

Northwold

.

tincanman wrote: »

LadyLethalla wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

Price aren't anywhere near outrageous if you farm them for yourself.

It took me 18 months to amass 1600 or so Dec Wax, Mundane Runes and Heartwood each. I bought Moon Sugar Meadow recently to make a wedding reception venue and I have less than 100 Dec Wax and Heartwood left each, and 500 or so Mundane Runes left, with less than 10 furnishing slots remaining. AND I bought a lot of items with gold from both guild traders and furnishing merchants, and also some items from the Crown Store.

Today, like every other day, I have been collecting every rune and wood node I have seen, and I've found less than 10 Mundane Runes and Heartwood.

So yeah... it IS cheaper if you farm them yourself, except it takes a hell of a long time, and it disappears all too quickly.

Farming results for furniture mats is random but I think you'd have to be incredibly and unbelievably unlucky to get 10 furniture mats after days or even a single day of grabbing every node in passing.

Still agnostic about a mat vendor but I'd be more in favour of extending the transmutation system to allow mats to be changed to create what you need from what your have. I think this latter approach would be more generally useful than just for furniture mats.

Just a note that since transmutation crystals can only be obtained from content that is notionally at least group, and primarily from PvP content, that is unlikely to help many of the players for whom furnishing mats are a problem. It would simply make even worse the sense that housing is an endgame hobby rather than a gameplay activity in its own right.

Northwold

kargen27 wrote: »

"Liquidity of supply of common items would increase, liquidity of funds to buy them would increase, prices would actually behave like they would in a market that involves all players, rather than a subset of the playerbase with crimped levels of supply."

The items in question are not common items. That is the point. They are semi rare items and take time to gather. That is why they cost what they do. Making them available in the vendor takes away all incentive to farm for them and that isn't healthy for the game.

Again, why? Making them available for the vendor makes them as available as furnishing recipes seem to assume they are. They're clearly not *supposed* to be semi rare otherwise furnishing recipes wouldn't involve a truckload of mundane runes to build a small section of wall, for example.

I'm not sure what isn't "healthy for the game" in that. That other people can do what they want to do but farmers might have to farm something else or take a pay cut? Is there some specific reason why that kind of selling activity should be protected at all costs versus what every other player wants from the game?

VaranisArano

The last time I tracked my farming habits in any great detail over 10 hours, I was getting an average of 14 heartwood per hour of farming my Craglorn loop. That's enough to make roughly one epic/legendary item, per hour.

So as someone who makes a fair bit of gold from selling the heartwood and mundane runes I harvest (without the Craft Bag, fyi), I'd like to suggest that the best way for ZOS to make housing materials more accessible AND keep the economy in good order is to increase the drop rates for housing mats specifically. If I farm more, I can sell more, and an increased supply makes it easier to fill y'all housing decorators insatiable appetites so prices eventually fall.

Alternatively, if ZOS wanted to be more selective, I'd think it'd be easier to lower the recipe costs for the most expensive materials. I think about the New Life writs, where I don't even bother doing them because the reward isn't worth the material cost.

However, that assumes that ZOS wants to make furnishing crafting easier and cheaper. From the introduction of Housing, my assumption has been that ZOS wants it to be a long, slow process of gathering mats, crafting furnishings, and decorating our houses over time. Like, when Homestead launched, I remember being overwhelmed by the amount of recipes to learn and the number of materials needed to craft...and that hasn't substantially changed since 2017. Its not like its a problem for ZOS that players have to spend a long time farming for housing mats or the gold to buy them.

katanagirl1

I would think that most players selling furnishing mats are not housing enthusiasts (except for @VaranisArano above, surprisingly) and are farming to sell since so many mats are needed for housing. It would be hard to get enough for one’s own needs and farm the length of time required if housing were the goal. If you aren’t into housing, you could make a good amount of gold so there is great appeal if you can stand endless hours of grinding. The same probably goes for furnishing plans too, which is why prices have skyrocketed in the last couple of chapters. I cannot make a lot of gold from selling plans anymore because the drop rate is so low and I learn the first of every plan for myself.

This may be the game economy at work, but the players selling the mats and making gold are doing so at the expense of housing players due to the extremely low drop rates and high mat requirements for housing.

I say that and I do farm all my mats myself, which means I don’t get to do actual housing nearly as much as I would like.

VaranisArano

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I would think that most players selling furnishing mats are not housing enthusiasts (except for @VaranisArano above, surprisingly) and are farming to sell since so many mats are needed for housing. It would be hard to get enough for one’s own needs and farm the length of time required if housing were the goal. If you aren’t into housing, you could make a good amount of gold so there is great appeal if you can stand endless hours of grinding. The same probably goes for furnishing plans too, which is why prices have skyrocketed in the last couple of chapters. I cannot make a lot of gold from selling plans anymore because the drop rate is so low and I learn the first of every plan for myself.

This may be the game economy at work, but the players selling the mats and making gold are doing so at the expense of housing players due to the extremely low drop rates and high mat requirements for housing.

I say that and I do farm all my mats myself, which means I don’t get to do actual housing nearly as much as I would like.

I consider myself fairly casual with Housing, but admittedly part of that is I don't want to put in the enormous effort it would take to craft the items myself. So ironically, my method of engaging with housing is to farm a bunch of materials from Craglorn, sell that for gold, and then just buy the furniture that other people have crafted or farmed. I think the last house I furnished, Strident Springs with a bunch of clockwork stuff for my Dwemer/Clockwork enthusiast character, cost around 3 million by the time I was done with it? So that would've been *roughly* 30 hours of farming materials at the time, not counting the cost of buying the house.

On one level, that doesn't sound so expensive/lengthy as a time sink. On the other hand, that's in the 90th percentile of gold on PC based on old stats from Rich Lambert. With 3 million to throw at furnishings, I'm actually pretty rich compared to the vast majority of players. Moreover, most players don't want to spend 30 hours running Craglorn loops. I find it relaxing, but I'm weird like that.

If I'd wanted to craft the items myself instead of just hitting up all the guild traders, I'd be looking at a much greater time investment/expense to do so. Like, if I was gathering enough heartwood for one furnishing an hour, that's a lot of hours for the heartwood furnishings that go into a 600-slot house. The actual time investment that went into my house including the players who learned the recipes and crafted them to make the furnishings I bought is way higher than 30 hours.


On the bigger scale, is that a good thing for Housing?

I'd argue that Housing is an expensive time sink for most players who engage with it casually. As for the players who engage seriously, its even more of an expensive time sink. And its even worse for the crafters who want to craft the items themselves, who make it possible for us more casual decorators to have access to those crafted furnishings.

The supply of materials feels really low compared to the demand which is great for me as a seller of materials, but not great for me as a crafter. Since I do casually engage in Housing, some of that high profit from selling housing mats has to get plowed back into the higher costs of furnishings.

I think it would benefit players to have Housing materials be more readily available, thus making Housing more accessible to casual players and serious enthusiasts alike. Yeah, I'd take a hit in terms of profit from selling housing mats like heartwood and mundane runes, although I'd make back some of that in the lower costs for furnishings when I next decide to decorate a house for an alt.

But I suspect increasing the drop rates of materials/reducing material costs would diminish Housing's value as an expensive time sink with extensive monetization options in the Crown Store for ZOS.

Paralyse

Increasing the drop rate of furnishing materials earned when farming nodes would be an expedient solution to help make furnishings more affordable.

Another change that I would like to see is allowing the use of Crown Mimic Stones when crafting furnishings, not just only weapons/armor/jewelry.

The guild trader system is a part of the game, whether you choose to use it or not. If I don't want to run trials, I don't get to complain about how unfair it is that I don't have trial gear. Why is that any different?

Another suggestion I have would be to join a larger guild that is active and friendly; if you ask nicely, you can usually get some of the furnishing mats and trait items donated by other members, or at least sold to you at a discounted rate. A couple of months ago, I mentioned in one of mine that I needed like 4 Culanda Lacquer to finish a couple of Alinor DIsplay Stands, and ended up getting sent about 40 of them in total from 5 or 6 different players.

kargen27

Northwold wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

"Liquidity of supply of common items would increase, liquidity of funds to buy them would increase, prices would actually behave like they would in a market that involves all players, rather than a subset of the playerbase with crimped levels of supply."

The items in question are not common items. That is the point. They are semi rare items and take time to gather. That is why they cost what they do. Making them available in the vendor takes away all incentive to farm for them and that isn't healthy for the game.

Again, why? Making them available for the vendor makes them as available as furnishing recipes seem to assume they are. They're clearly not *supposed* to be semi rare otherwise furnishing recipes wouldn't involve a truckload of mundane runes to build a small section of wall, for example.

I'm not sure what isn't "healthy for the game" in that. That other people can do what they want to do but farmers might have to farm something else or take a pay cut? Is there some specific reason why that kind of selling activity should be protected at all costs versus what every other player wants from the game?

It isn't that this specific type of farming and selling should be protected. It is about getting players out there in the world doing things. If these materials are available from vendors that takes away incentive for both buyers and sellers to be out in the world. That isn't good for the game.
If you look at posts I've made in the past you will see I am generally opposed to changes that have a chance of decreasing players doing a variety of content many times.

katanagirl1

I wonder what it has cost me to decorate my homes. I craft all the items myself so I have to buy the plans too.

Yesterday I spent 1.3 mil gold for the High Isle Fountain, Wall because I have been unable to farm it myself and there was only one plan for sale in the traders on PS NA.

That’s just one plan. It is one of the stupidly rare ones, but still.

everseeing_njpreub18_ESO

<opinion>

I say no.

I would think either slightly increasing drop rates or item break down rewards, or maybe adding another way to gather them. Add a slight chance to certain monsters to drop some, put them in treasure chests, allow them to drop from surveys, etc.

Ways to get more people into the world to play the game, not just a merchant to but them from.

</opinion>

Somber97866

Why does it say answered when I don't feel like it is? Remind me to not aska question

Wolf_Eye

I agree, but only for the basic building mats such as heartwood, mundane rune, decorative wax, etc.

I've been struggling lately to furnish a number of houses. And the lack of easy ways to get heartwood, especially, has been draining my desire to keep going.

Don't get me wrong, I love decorating. But when I see how many of my houses I haven't even started on, and I see how it takes millions of millions of gold just to make a few wooden furnishings, it wears me down. It should not cost 30K to make a single basegame wooden chair.

I have such a backlog of houses now, that this was one of the reasons why I skipped buying Seaveil Spire. It was a pretty house, but I just don't have the energy to pursue furnishing it because it's becoming demotivating.

Given the inflated price of gold mats, there seems to be a TON of gold floating around. Putting the basic furnishing mats (such as heartwood, mundane rune, etc) into an NPC will help sellers and buyers by decreasing the rampant inflation.

Inflation is not good for any economy, because it eventually leads to the markets destabilizing and for new players (who are necessary for MMOs) to become demotivated to play. We need more gold sinks.

Besides, sellers can still sell gold mats (dreugh wax, etc) and crafting mats (rubedite ore, etc), which they would be getting anyways if they're harvesting building mats (heartwood, etc). Since this will only affect the building mat prices, sellers who farm are not losing out on a way to make money as they still have gold mats and crafting mats to fall back on.

I do not think it should affect special mats, such as style mats like shimmering sand, because there are a more limited amount of furnishings that require such materials and it acts as an encouragement to participate in PvE activities such as fighting mobs and running daily quests (encouraging a healthy population for daily boss quests so that players can team up).

Come to think of it, this might help players get less popular furnishings too. I remember running into a problem where I wanted a particular base game furnishing, but didn't have the recipe for it. I also couldn't find it anywhere, because the amount of heartwood required to make it was in disporportion for how unpopular it was. Basically, no one was making it, because no one wanted to waste precious expensive heartwood on it. So I had to wait a whole month before a recipe would appear.

If the restrictions around building mats were removed or even lessened, then such furnishings would see the light of day again. And it wouldn't just be the latest and greatest recipes.

Lumenn

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

I agree, but only for the basic building mats such as heartwood, mundane rune, decorative wax, etc.

I've been struggling lately to furnish a number of houses. And the lack of easy ways to get heartwood, especially, has been draining my desire to keep going.

Don't get me wrong, I love decorating. But when I see how many of my houses I haven't even started on, and I see how it takes millions of millions of gold just to make a few wooden furnishings, it wears me down. It should not cost 30K to make a single basegame wooden chair.

I have such a backlog of houses now, that this was one of the reasons why I skipped buying Seaveil Spire. It was a pretty house, but I just don't have the energy to pursue furnishing it because it's becoming demotivating.

Given the inflated price of gold mats, there seems to be a TON of gold floating around. Putting the basic furnishing mats (such as heartwood, mundane rune, etc) into an NPC will help sellers and buyers by decreasing the rampant inflation.

Inflation is not good for any economy, because it eventually leads to the markets destabilizing and for new players (who are necessary for MMOs) to become demotivated to play. We need more gold sinks.

Besides, sellers can still sell gold mats (dreugh wax, etc) and crafting mats (rubedite ore, etc), which they would be getting anyways if they're harvesting building mats (heartwood, etc). Since this will only affect the building mat prices, sellers who farm are not losing out on a way to make money as they still have gold mats and crafting mats to fall back on.

I do not think it should affect special mats, such as style mats like shimmering sand, because there are a more limited amount of furnishings that require such materials and it acts as an encouragement to participate in PvE activities such as fighting mobs and running daily quests (encouraging a healthy population for daily boss quests so that players can team up).

Come to think of it, this might help players get less popular furnishings too. I remember running into a problem where I wanted a particular base game furnishing, but didn't have the recipe for it. I also couldn't find it anywhere, because the amount of heartwood required to make it was in disporportion for how unpopular it was. Basically, no one was making it, because no one wanted to waste precious expensive heartwood on it. So I had to wait a whole month before a recipe would appear.

If the restrictions around building mats were removed or even lessened, then such furnishings would see the light of day again. And it wouldn't just be the latest and greatest recipes.

A lot of good points here, the main one that stuck out with me is I too, have held off buying houses due to the difficulty of obtaining furniture mats. Granted I'm on record as thinking ESO housing is... limited..as is. There are other games that scratch that itch MUCH better, and the scarcity of building mats is one of the main pain points in ESO for me. I probably have 7-8 homes ATM that I haven't touched yet. Zos is losing crown sales(at least with some of us) I don't like spending $15-$20 on every piece of furniture, and despite actually having millions in gold(on Xbox) I wouldn't keep very much of it buying housing mats in the quantities needed. I can farm it myself yes, but as noted earlier in the discussion I'll be ready to start in 18 months. My last house cost me 5m in gold and probably about 10k from my crown stash.( I had drained my mat supply from doing a house a month before this one.) I'm in a decent place in my life, but how many players have those resources on hand? Should housing be restricted to those of us with money? It honestly feels like you either buy each piece from the crown store, be one of the billion gold in bank team, or have your own teams of bots(that have taken over Xbox na) that can farm 24/7 in multiple locations so you have no problem with supply. Selling them like the style pieces in the crafting vendors zos would help, and might encourage more people to buy your $120 prefabricated houses.(we need more open spaces to build our own)

VaranisArano

Somber97866 wrote: »

Why does it say answered when I don't feel like it is? Remind me to not aska question

If you posted it as a Question, then "answered" means you got a response.

If you find an acceptable answer, you should have an option to accept that comment as an answer, which will pin that comment at the top of the thread so everyone else can see it.

Ironically, the Ask a Question option doesn't necessarily fit open-ended, opinion questions like this, though I certainly see the source of the confusion.

maximusrex45

Somber97866 wrote: »

I think we should be able to! One to lower the outrageous prices and second to stimulate more gameplay through building of more housing items for construction of bigger and better housing projects.

[edited for name in thread title]

The game needs gold sinks, and this would be a great one that would also help inflation.

Somber97866

I gotta quit asking questions and just post a discussion lol

Starbridge84

No, we shouldn't be able to. Gathering these materials is how some players make their gold. It's an easy way for NEW players to make some gold to help them get items they are looking for and shouldn't be taken away.

We SHOULD, however be able to decon furnishings though. Bound or not bound we should be able to get something out of them if we don't need/want them any more other than just "dropping" them.

Alphawolf01A

BlueRaven wrote: »

I don’t think we need a vendor, but I would be ok if surveys dropped furnishing mats.

I 100% agree!

Necrosaro_123

I think that the moment the furniture has a crown price on them....we are doomed to have these super low drop rates in crafting materials and plans. Its not good for business to have them so common.
Not only Heartwood and Decorative Wax are super rare (because i farm them daily), but also trying to get some paintings from chests (Western Skyrim) is super hard. I have so far opened more than 200+ chests in Nchunthkarst and not a single drop from them.
House decoration is doomed to be super slow and hard in order to make us buy the furniture by using crowns. (specially for people with no time). But it is also a source of income for the devs.
I would love to see this design chance, since is already hard to decorate one single house and now....we have so many of them, that decorating them all is almost impossible. I hope they chance the design, because house decoration is starting to feel not only boring and low rewarding but also pointless in the long term (we can't use the beds, wardroves, chests, bookcases, etc for anything other than just decoration). Housing system needs a rework badly. Specially because for new players is a big let down the moment they see the gold they have to spend in buying a house, the gold to buy the plans and the amount of gold they have to invest (or time) to get the materials to craft the furniture.

For me, house decoration is slowly turning into a chore. I don't feel the same excitement that i have by making my house in ES Skyrim than the excitement i have making one for ESO.

Making the furniture materials more accesible could be a solution (better drop rates), but also making the house itself more usefull by:

1. Allowing us to use the beds to increase the enlightened rate we earn xp or cp.
2. Allow us to use the "mirrors" as outfit stations
3. Allow the houses to have storage (lets say a 100 storage space for a Large house. So the storage space is based on the house size), so we can use furnitures like desks, wardroves or chests as a way to access the house storage system (it can storage in the same way as a bank)
4. Allow us to consume the decoration food for a "basic" food buff or a "special" food buff.
5. Create weapon racks or armor dummies
6. Create NPC vendors that we could assign what they sell for people who visit out houses

ThelerisTelvanni

Necrosaro_123 wrote: »

Allow the houses to have storage (lets say a 100 storage space for a Large house. So the storage space is based on the house size), so we can use furnitures like desks, wardroves or chests as a way to access the house storage system (it can storage in the same way as a bank)

That seems like a good Idea if the storage is shared with all houses and each house increases the over all storage space. That way getting all the houses will add an additional progression with gameplay value, for players like me that the just get everything and hate to throw anything away the deem "maybe someday useful".

Somber97866

First of all I never said anything about a crown store buy. I was mainly registering to Gold ingame buying. Just so we can go ahead and clear that up now

Starbridge84

No. I don't think there should be an easy road to building furnishings. The only change I would make to mats and furnishings would be the ability to break down furnishings we don't want into mats that we can use on other things.

30% / 45% / 60% based on skill level (adding in a new skill for each craft)

So many furnishings I know I'll never use that I wish I could turn into something else.

EDIT
Farming up furnishing mats is a good way for newer players to earn gold. You want to take that away from them?

AndreNoir

Starbridge84 wrote: »

Farming up furnishing mats is a good way for newer players to earn gold. You want to take that away from them?

Newer players have no clue about furnishing and about it's mats in a first place

VaranisArano

Starbridge84 wrote: »

No. I don't think there should be an easy road to building furnishings. The only change I would make to mats and furnishings would be the ability to break down furnishings we don't want into mats that we can use on other things.

30% / 45% / 60% based on skill level (adding in a new skill for each craft)

So many furnishings I know I'll never use that I wish I could turn into something else.

EDIT
Farming up furnishing mats is a good way for newer players to earn gold. You want to take that away from them?

There's always farming potion reagents and kuta and fish. That's what I sold when I was new.

As it is, anything new players make from selling furnishings mats will get plowed back into the cost of buying furnishings if/when they get into housing.

Jaimeh

If not mats (because I don't think zos would ever go there), then we should be able to buy more basic furniture at the housing vendors, like tables, chairs etc., because for new players crafting furnishings (or buying them from traders) is extremely expensive, so if they could at least buy some cheaper furniture from vendors they could venture into their first housing project without gold being such a limiting factor.

Daedralist

Here's what will solve everyone's problem: ZoS should create a consumable similar to that Hissmir drink that increase rare fish drops. Call it Artisans Luck Brew. Make it an alcoholic drink, that increase Max Stam, Stam Regen, and increase furnishing item drops from crafting nodes. To make it it costs barley, sugar, berve juice, some new mat that drops in Apocrypha. Boom.

People can make money selling the drinks and mats for it. People can drink it and farm for it. It should decrease the price for those who don't want to farm them. But also the farmers still get rewarded for their time by selling the new stuff to offset the decreased pricing of the furniture mats.

SeaGtGruff

You know, I love the idea of the traders telling the furnishing crafters to farm the materials themselves. Yes! Put the traders out of business by taking their business away!

Oh, the irony of their advice.

kind_hero

I don't like how tedious is to gather enough materials to decorate a medium house, not to speak about large 700 slots ones.

I have several "manor" like houses, and most of them are 1/3 filled with stuff, even though I roughly know what I would like to build there. Thing is, I don't have enough time, patience or gold to gather everything I need in a reasonable time, so I can enjoy each housing project. Usually, it takes me longer than a year to finish or to get to a point where it's almost done. After a year, the current theme changes to the next chapter, and the enthusiasm is mostly gone.

That's why I stopped playing to the point that I only do some dailies or endeavors. I am a veteran player, I know how the game works, what to sell and most of the tricks. But it just is too much of a grind.

In my opinion, critical mats such as mundane runes, decorative wax, or heartwood, should drop more often from crafting related activities: survey maps, reward caches, or if you have a perk active (from champion points), get way more furnishing mats from heavy sacks and treasure chests. Also, events should have some daily for crafters or some boon to increase the amount of runes (etc) found in the world.

I also think that vendors should provide very basic furnishings, mainly stone and wood platforms, and basic blocks. The rest should be craftable. This has been done to some extent in Summerset, where you can buy various marble like blocks.