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BIG WEAKNESS IN ACIEVEMENT
Almakor
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I've experienced a big weakness during this event's runs in vSS. There are bad dps that leach off their group, then use the vet achiement to get into future groups.
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Androrix✭✭✭✭I really don't like threads that are basically "players aren't up to my standard and should not get to do group content". Way too elitist. Players who feel they are better than others should make a great player club to do content.36
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beer781993✭✭✭✭Don't know when achievements were a guarantee for skill or experience.
People complaining about Pug groups shouldn't pug. All that matters is helping each other and if you still can't complete the content, you build a new group without making others feel bad.
You can always join a guild if you want more experienced players.Edited by beer781993 on February 7, 2023 2:40PM12 -
essi2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Almost like using a digital sticker as proof of fitness is a bad idea...."The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood, Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar
** Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-EU) - Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-NA) **
*** https://www.youtube.com/@essi2 - https://www.twitch.tv/essi2 ***8 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Are you saying that the Sunspire Conqueror achievement was used as the only metric to gauge whether or not someone could get an invite into a group, and they didnt perform as expected? Well, I can see where that might be an issue.
That achievement just states that you have done it. That's all. It doesnt tell you anything other than a person was present in some capacity when the group cleared. Its not a flaw with the achievement, its an issue with depending on it to determine one's skill level/competence.
I ran a total of 12 vSS during the event. 2 were guild runs. Of the remaining 10 we never asked for the achievement. Some people gave it anyway, but we never asked. Out of those 10 only 1 didnt clear and only 1 went over an hour. People put too much stock into that achievement sometimes.Edited by Agenericname on February 7, 2023 3:14PM11 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Everything is fine, until you get 3+ deadweight in the same run.
Exactly why dps meter display should be a feature (put anonymous option if you want zos)1 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭✭The problem here is using the achievement as some sort of performance criteria. A lot of people buy or get carried and get such an achievement. This isn't a fault with the achievement system but a problematic raid organization. If you want clean trial runs, you need to be more selective on who you bring.5 -
Katheriah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭That's the risk of pugging. You never know under which circumstances an achievement is gained.
Don't like it? Don't pug.
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ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really don't like threads that are basically "players aren't up to my standard and should not get to do group content". Way too elitist. Players who feel they are better than others should make a great player club to do content.
You put 8 deadweight in the same group they can’t clear vss. All they will do is tormenting the poor support mains like me.
Vss only requires mediocrity. However the ones doing less than 20k dps in a trial are not even close to mediocrity.
Not everyone can be average, a line has to be drawn somewhere.1 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Everything is fine, until you get 3+ deadweight in the same run.
Exactly why dps meter display should be a feature (put anonymous option if you want zos)
You have the option of forming your own group and setting whatever criteria you'd like. Theres really no need for ZOS to do anything.3 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Everything is fine, until you get 3+ deadweight in the same run.
Exactly why dps meter display should be a feature (put anonymous option if you want zos)
You have the option of forming your own group and setting whatever criteria you'd like. Theres really no need for ZOS to do anything.
So your suggestion is people should only form own group, which is already happening (often higher reqs to make it go faster), instead of demanding just mediocrity from zone pugs?
How inclusive.0 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've experienced a big weakness during this event's runs in vSS. There are bad dps that leach off their group, then use the vet achiement to get into future groups.
Why don't you kicked him and pick another one?- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem here is using the achievement as some sort of performance criteria. A lot of people buy or get carried and get such an achievement. This isn't a fault with the achievement system but a problematic raid organization. If you want clean trial runs, you need to be more selective on who you bring.
this
the same can be said for someones CP
ive seen a cp 300 play better than a cp1200, could be for many reasons, but the same lesson goes, dont judge a book by its cover lolplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most often when a trial group fails DPS isn't the problem. The problem is lack of awareness and proper mechanics. A guild I am in has a few different levels of trial groups. We were running with several players that were mostly new to trials and as a group we were struggling. One of our tanks had to leave so we got a replacement. The tank that left is an absolutely great tank so he wasn't the problem.
The replacement we got runs with a group that goes for trifectas and leader board numbers. He isn't a better tank in the game play part of tanking. Where he made a huge difference was how he was able to describe the fight and then during the fight really guide the entire group in what we should be doing. If he saw a player positioned wrong he would tell them. A couple of people later mentioned he was kind of pushy.
He wasn't rude or negative just controlled what the group was doing and was very positive when things went well. As you might have guessed by now we finished the trial actually fairly easy. He stayed calm so we stayed calm. He kept us all on point so everything went smooth.
Sometimes when a player is struggling it isn't because of a lack of skill. It is because they are unsure what then need to do.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."5 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭Our guild ran a ton of vSS during the event. A lot of first timers... and I mean A LOT, now have a skin and an achievement. If you are a Craglorner forming or participating in a PUG, and you are asking for people to link a clear, xx DPS parse min requirements, or telling them discord is required then I'm sorry to say you have no room to complain about "lackluster" DDs with an achievement being in your PUG. Back in the day, people were requiring 30-35k DPS for vSS and happened to get by just fine.0 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »this
the same can be said for someones CP
ive seen a cp 300 play better than a cp1200, could be for many reasons, but the same lesson goes, dont judge a book by its cover lol
Agree. We had a CP 222 main tank in many of our vSS groups, and CP 2000+ mopping the floor with their bodies.
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Androrix✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Everything is fine, until you get 3+ deadweight in the same run.
Exactly why dps meter display should be a feature (put anonymous option if you want zos)
You have the option of forming your own group and setting whatever criteria you'd like. Theres really no need for ZOS to do anything.
So your suggestion is people should only form own group, which is already happening (often higher reqs to make it go faster), instead of demanding just mediocrity from zone pugs?
How inclusive.
That is very tortured logic. You are talking about excluding players from content because they don't meet your standards. Private and exclusive country clubs all aorund the world just cheered. I assume some DPS somewhere let you come along when you were a less impressive support player. Nobody is "deadweight". Help them improve, or if you don't want to do that find yourself a group of players you believe are your peers.2 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Everything is fine, until you get 3+ deadweight in the same run.
Exactly why dps meter display should be a feature (put anonymous option if you want zos)
You have the option of forming your own group and setting whatever criteria you'd like. Theres really no need for ZOS to do anything.
So your suggestion is people should only form own group, which is already happening (often higher reqs to make it go faster), instead of demanding just mediocrity from zone pugs?
How inclusive.
Yes, thats what Im suggesting. If youre unhappy with the performance of PUGs, form your own group and set your own standards. Solved.2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not a weakness in achievements, it's a weakness in using flawed data as a metric of performance. If one wants a group at a certain performance levels, you need stuff like parses or prior experience with that person.
Anyone can get the achievement. Not everyone can parse high. So if one wants to make a group of only high DPS, they'll need to form it themselves and require parse information.Edited by spartaxoxo on February 7, 2023 8:15PM4 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Everything is fine, until you get 3+ deadweight in the same run.
Exactly why dps meter display should be a feature (put anonymous option if you want zos)
You have the option of forming your own group and setting whatever criteria you'd like. Theres really no need for ZOS to do anything.
So your suggestion is people should only form own group, which is already happening (often higher reqs to make it go faster), instead of demanding just mediocrity from zone pugs?
How inclusive.
That is very tortured logic. You are talking about excluding players from content because they don't meet your standards. Private and exclusive country clubs all aorund the world just cheered. I assume some DPS somewhere let you come along when you were a less impressive support player. Nobody is "deadweight". Help them improve, or if you don't want to do that find yourself a group of players you believe are your peers.
Your suggestion is in fact excluding more players. The pug runs currently accept mediocrity, will become scheduled runs that at least demand good.
So in reality your suggestion just take opportunities away from mediocre players. See how little vcr1 or vrg you get from crag pug. My suggestion actually give mediocre players more opportunities.0 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Everything is fine, until you get 3+ deadweight in the same run.
Exactly why dps meter display should be a feature (put anonymous option if you want zos)
You have the option of forming your own group and setting whatever criteria you'd like. Theres really no need for ZOS to do anything.
So your suggestion is people should only form own group, which is already happening (often higher reqs to make it go faster), instead of demanding just mediocrity from zone pugs?
How inclusive.
Yes, thats what Im suggesting. If youre unhappy with the performance of PUGs, form your own group and set your own standards. Solved.
Ok, so screw the mediocre players and cater to the dead weight. Got it.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »make your own group and you can decide who goes.
This
It is also why running with organized groups, especially those part of a guild, is superior. Such groups have requirements to help ensure the goals of the group are met. Such requirements do vary greatly as different groups have different goals but any well-run group will have some sort of requirement.
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Everything is fine, until you get 3+ deadweight in the same run.
Exactly why dps meter display should be a feature (put anonymous option if you want zos)
You have the option of forming your own group and setting whatever criteria you'd like. Theres really no need for ZOS to do anything.
So your suggestion is people should only form own group, which is already happening (often higher reqs to make it go faster), instead of demanding just mediocrity from zone pugs?
How inclusive.
Yes, thats what Im suggesting. If youre unhappy with the performance of PUGs, form your own group and set your own standards. Solved.
Ok, so screw the mediocre players and cater to the dead weight. Got it.
The group could be comprised of the players you speak of. There are guilds and groups at all levels, with some that specialize in helping players learn different raids and improve their playing ability. But none will nor should cater to someone who is truly a dead weight.
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Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭I've experienced a big weakness during this event's runs in vSS. There are bad dps that leach off their group, then use the vet achiement to get into future groups.
Y'know, at the start of the event I've stolen someone's achievement in Craglorn on NA to go PUG vSS. Just because I've already finished my vSS collection on EU and didn't have a chance to join a guild group on NA that week. So I knew well what to do, did my 11% of damage and worked in a portal. Did I leach off that group, you think? I even hadn't had an achievement before that run, as you mentioned, yes?
Let's go further, during the event I worked in a portal 80% runs and tombed 90% runs. One time I ended up in a guild group which had 3 Godslayers in it. Those people were crazy, I really admire their skills. That was one of 2 times I did pity 7% damage. But... only one of those titled guy went portal and died 2 times of 3. Did I leach off that group? Yes, sure, if we mention only damage. But you know, any group doesn't finish the run if portal is failed, whatever damage they have. Think about it.
Let's go further. At least twice I saw a group where only me wanted to do tombs. No any other of 7 dps. Groups break after 7-8 minutes of desperate waiting their tomb-raiders. That was real leaching, I think. Those people just stood and waited somebody do the job instead of them.
As for trial clear achievement as is, I totally agree with people above. It is not a quality mark or dps meter.
It is even not a quarantee that player knows what to do in that trial.
It is just a mark that player was in the group who finished the trial at least once. Also it is a chance (not 100%) that player saw with his own eyes how the group did it. Nothing else.
So if player managed to join the group and get to the end, well, he has this mark now.0 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Everything is fine, until you get 3+ deadweight in the same run.
Exactly why dps meter display should be a feature (put anonymous option if you want zos)
You have the option of forming your own group and setting whatever criteria you'd like. Theres really no need for ZOS to do anything.
So your suggestion is people should only form own group, which is already happening (often higher reqs to make it go faster), instead of demanding just mediocrity from zone pugs?
How inclusive.
Yes, thats what Im suggesting. If youre unhappy with the performance of PUGs, form your own group and set your own standards. Solved.
Ok, so screw the mediocre players and cater to the dead weight. Got it.
If thats the way that you would prefer to run a group, sure. The world is your oyster.
I prefer a more pragmatic approach personally. Like stacking the deck so-to-speak to where key supports and at least a partial portal are there. Then you have the freedom to allow for first timers without too much of a hassle.
But, if its your group, do whatever makes you happy.1 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Everything is fine, until you get 3+ deadweight in the same run.
Exactly why dps meter display should be a feature (put anonymous option if you want zos)
You have the option of forming your own group and setting whatever criteria you'd like. Theres really no need for ZOS to do anything.
So your suggestion is people should only form own group, which is already happening (often higher reqs to make it go faster), instead of demanding just mediocrity from zone pugs?
How inclusive.
Yes, thats what Im suggesting. If youre unhappy with the performance of PUGs, form your own group and set your own standards. Solved.
Ok, so screw the mediocre players and cater to the dead weight. Got it.
If thats the way that you would prefer to run a group, sure. The world is your oyster.
I prefer a more pragmatic approach personally. Like stacking the deck so-to-speak to where key supports and at least a partial portal are there. Then you have the freedom to allow for first timers without too much of a hassle.
But, if its your group, do whatever makes you happy.
First timer and dead weight are two different sets. First timer don’t necessarily need a carry. And people with completion don’t necessarily pull their own weight.
Instead of having 2 spots both open to mediocre players, your method has 1 spot dedicated to good players, and the other spot mediocre players have to compete against deadweight on who sign up faster.
Exactly as what I described, screw mediocre players, cater to deadweight.
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