Make Templar usefull as support please

lQrukl

With the introduction of hybridization, you no longer need even one Templar in a group, because Minor Sorcery is overshadowed by DK's Minor Brutality

E.g. Sun Fire:

Blast an enemy with a charge of radiant heat, dealing 1161 Flame Damage, and an additional 3470 Flame Damage over 20 seconds. Upon activation you and your allies gain Major Savagery and Major Prophecy for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 2629.

So templar could be a nice alternative for support slot (since its damage potential is lower than DK or necro and he is not shine as DD anymore)
Especially with the popularity of heroism potions

FeedbackOnly

Aren't the minor buffs still with each class?

Amottica

Templars are great in the support role. Also, we already get major savagery and prophecy from spell power potions which anyone half serious about raiding will be using in a raid already, making such a change redundant.

This is not how class balancing should be performed, since that seems to be the justification for the suggestion.

lQrukl

Aren't the minor buffs still with each class?

Minor Brutality from DK replaces Minor Sorcery from templar, so you don't need templar if you have DK in your group.
You only need to replace the enchantments on the jewelry

Templars are great in the support role. Also, we already get major savagery and prophecy from spell power potions which anyone half serious about raiding will be using in a raid already, making such a change redundant.

I don't know any viable slot for templar support in PvE raids. The only way is play support in PvP cyro ball group because of Radiant Aura.
And you obviously isn't even by a quarter serious in trial gaming if you say that
Now any self-respecting raid uses heroism potions which does not provide Major Intellect or Prophecy, so dd gets it from maintank (Igneous Weapons) and passives (like DK's Flames of Oblivion - one of the reasons why DK is so popular as damage dealer - or Camouflage/Inner Light)
E.g

Dr_Con

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Aren't the minor buffs still with each class?

yes except for necro (which has major vuln so pick your poison)

if a DK is in the group giving brutality for group benefit, a templar can be in the group giving sorcery for group benefit- i'm not sure what the other poster is fuming about, but sorcery is a spell damage modifier, brutality is the weapon damage modifier. one doesn't necessarily negate the other

certain minor buffs are harder to come by and aren't really comparable to major buffs- there's many sources of major prophecy, brutality, sorcery, and savagery, but there's few sources of the minor variants

xthrshx

Dr_Con wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Aren't the minor buffs still with each class?

if a DK is in the group giving brutality for group benefit, a templar can be in the group giving sorcery for group benefit- i'm not sure what the other poster is fuming about, but sorcery is a spell damage modifier, brutality is the weapon damage modifier. one doesn't necessarily negate the other

You don’t need both since the hybridization changes to damage scaling. Weapon/spell damage buffs are redundant. The only problem here is that potions haven’t been hybridized. All this means is that organized raids bring just one class for the buff and people swap out glyphs/pots as needed.

Dr_Con

xthrshx wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Aren't the minor buffs still with each class?

if a DK is in the group giving brutality for group benefit, a templar can be in the group giving sorcery for group benefit- i'm not sure what the other poster is fuming about, but sorcery is a spell damage modifier, brutality is the weapon damage modifier. one doesn't necessarily negate the other

You don’t need both since the hybridization changes to damage scaling. Weapon/spell damage buffs are redundant. The only problem here is that potions haven’t been hybridized. All this means is that organized raids bring just one class for the buff and people swap out glyphs/pots as needed.

If the Templar provides the buff for spell damage and the argument is that it doesn't matter because it's hybridized, then the argument can also be said that a DK isn't needed since a templar is present. Both arguments are silly imo.

WrathOfInnos

Dr_Con wrote: »

xthrshx wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Aren't the minor buffs still with each class?

if a DK is in the group giving brutality for group benefit, a templar can be in the group giving sorcery for group benefit- i'm not sure what the other poster is fuming about, but sorcery is a spell damage modifier, brutality is the weapon damage modifier. one doesn't necessarily negate the other

You don’t need both since the hybridization changes to damage scaling. Weapon/spell damage buffs are redundant. The only problem here is that potions haven’t been hybridized. All this means is that organized raids bring just one class for the buff and people swap out glyphs/pots as needed.

If the Templar provides the buff for spell damage and the argument is that it doesn't matter because it's hybridized, then the argument can also be said that a DK isn't needed since a templar is present. Both arguments are silly imo.

DK is needed for several reasons though, including Engulfing Flames, Stagger, Igneous Weapons and Minor Brutality. Giving one up has significant consequences, while giving up the Templar has almost none (lose a unique synergy with Purify for Alkosh). Basically you always need a DK in group, and once you have one the Templar is redundant.

xthrshx

Try finding any trifecta group running a Templar and no DK. Whether you think the argument is silly or not isn’t the point. The point is that this is how end game raids are organized, whether you like it or not, and it results in fewer opportunities for Templars. They simply are not optimal because the classes are not balanced.

Captain_Devildog

Templar is not a Templar anymore..

Pet

Templar has plenty - minor sorcery, 60 seconds of minor sustain buffs to anyone within a massive range of you (and it has no cost to cast either), the purify synergy which everyone can access rather than only one person on top of being a fat heal, they can also uniquely provide minor breach, minor expedition as an AoE; honestly the list goes on. Templar is fine.

lQrukl

Pet wrote: »

Templar has plenty - minor sorcery, 60 seconds of minor sustain buffs to anyone within a massive range of you (and it has no cost to cast either), the purify synergy which everyone can access rather than only one person on top of being a fat heal, they can also uniquely provide minor breach, minor expedition as an AoE; honestly the list goes on. Templar is fine.

1) minor sorcery == minor brutality, if you have DK in you group (DK must have in any group), you dont need minor sorcery
2) "60 seconds of minor sustain buffs" => wardens have it also, and much more other stuff, as well as sorc (Empowered Ward)
3) "the purify synergy" => and what? did heals lose their purge ablities so it became must-have? it's just a regular synergy that provides nothing unique
4) "they can also uniquely provide minor breach" => ahahah, "uniquely"? Mele taunt always can provide it. New frost blockade will provide it also in area for 14 seconds, check PTS
5) "minor expedition as an AoE" => noone use it, Charging Maneuver instead. Also, Ritual of Rebirth morph is better for group PvP
6) "Templar is fine" - no, it is not, check PTS threads

K9002

@lQrukl
2 - It's also on Nightblade's Refreshing Path, along with a strong heal and Major Expedition. Warden also provides irreplaceable Minor Toughness.
4 - Warden's Shalks also have major + minor Breach as AoE on magicka morph.
5 - Minor Expedition can also be sourced from restoration staff's Quickening Siphon, which further syngergizes with the Vateshran staff.

Whatever Templars can do, other classes or even weapons can do twice as good.

Soarora

Templar is still useful (such as in AS) but yeah, it's sad to see templar healers be knocked down from their reign. I think it's a matter of reflecting the "stam" DPS meta as now the group healer is nightblade. If we go back to magicka, then I'm sure templar will be used more. So really, to disconnect supports from the DPS meta then nightblade and templar both have to give minor prophecy and savagery (I think those are the right buffs?). The "unique minor buff" doesn't provide class identity like ZOS wants it to, it just limits choice of supports. Class identity has to do with HOW classes are played...

Akasha_Mei

Fact is that real magic power is going down in effectiveness. The whole thing is getting brutal power. They can change shield cost from stamina to magic (mitigation of the brutality era of combat metrics), but that doesn't change the fact that melee weapons are being overwhelmed X magic/skills and staffs, results. Pretty akward for a fantasy game.

Minno

updates lately are missing that sweet mix of Top-down/bottom-up design that makes games what they are.

Many aspect of ESO have seen more bottom-up design that is missing core elder scrolls lore/mechanics. The latter being very important in adding more creative avenues for players to find uses for even the most underused builds. For example, they should go back to the old Templar lore books and find some way to add that value into the kit. And those additions can be more or less adding value to open world/cyro/bgs/dungeons/raids and less broad spectrum design. Like for example it makes sense to see base spells as more open world application abilities that you then pick a more niche use via one of the morphs. So if we extend the example to purfying light, the base spell should see use in broad spectrum open world (maybe that is one you can apply over and over again but then you pick the spell pen one for pvp bgs and the purfying light adds more tank/bg healing application by being something that adds HUGE single target value.

Stuff like that. I should go over the list and make a suggestion on changes. Once I get my newborn on a better sleep schedule lol.

p00tx

Templar still makes a fantastic healer. Healing strength alone is through the roof, and the extra synergy they provide is invaluable in groups using Alkosh. No, it's no longer the go-to in all content healer, but Warden is honestly the only class that fits that bill, and who knows for how much longer. Once the new class drops, we may see a wild shift in meta comps.

MEBengalsFan2001

This update has seriously killed Templars in both PVP and PVE....

Devs should just delete templars from the game or better yet any players with a templar have that character be able to select another class that isn't a templar.