Do you actually like dungeons?

flizomica

Yes

"I also see a lot of “dungeon people” move to trials, and overall ignoring of dungeons when it comes to endgame."

Per that specific point, I used to be much more into DLC dungeons when the challenger achievements actually gave awesome rewards, like personalities and skins. Now I've only done a few of the recently released HMs and honestly can't keep track of which title is from which hard mode or trifecta. I bet endgame interest in them would be reignited if they gave cool rewards like they used to.

LunaFlora

Yes

i Love some dungeons a lot and im certainly not bothered by doing new or old dungeons.
dungeons are way easier and funner to do than trials to me especially because i can solo a lot of them.

my favourite dungeons are Red Petal Bastion, Earthen Root Enclave, Shipwright's Regret, and Moongrave Fane.


i do however dislike any of the dungeons filled with arthropods like spiders and insects in Cradle of Shadows and Lair of Maarselok.
and i dislike that there's no way to ensure nobody fakes tank and heal roles in random dungeon queues

WhiteCoatSyndrome

DLC

The newer Dungeons have interesting mechanics once you figure them out (or have them explained to you; shout out to the wonderful person who told me what I was doing wrong during my Frostvault run the other day) and the devs are gradually getting better at conveying the story without having to make the player stop dead to talk to an NPC while everyone else rushes ahead.

Sometimes there are bad groups, but that is not usually the fault of the dungeon.

(Full disclosure, I run the DLC dungeons on normal, so if there is anything wildly different in Vet I’m missing out on it.)

colossalvoids

Yes

Guess you can say I "main" dungeons nowadays, new pack comes out and we're in.

Honestly speaking I probably enjoy trials more being a huge group effort and trifectas feeling a lot "bigger" effort to pull off, but after some unfortunate updates the group is no more and those of us who left are doing dungeons only nowadays, which I also love. Arenas are in the same basket, just wish there were more of, or reasons to go back were not just of improving your previous score.

Soarora

DLC

flizomica wrote: »

"I also see a lot of “dungeon people” move to trials, and overall ignoring of dungeons when it comes to endgame."

Per that specific point, I used to be much more into DLC dungeons when the challenger achievements actually gave awesome rewards, like personalities and skins. Now I've only done a few of the recently released HMs and honestly can't keep track of which title is from which hard mode or trifecta. I bet endgame interest in them would be reignited if they gave cool rewards like they used to.

For sure, me too. I’m rather vocal and passionate about dungeon rewards. I think other parts of the issue are that dungeons don’t have score like trials so once you have trifecta there’s no point in returning unless to help others, for mask, or for fun. Also that most of the dungeons even on HM just aren’t as difficult as trials once you’re settled as an endgamer. The newer ones are much better scaled but I think having an UltraHM version of older dungeons with new associated achievements would bring more life back into them.

KlauthWarthog

Situational. I like engaging mechanics, like the grenades to avoid attros on ICP, or the ghosts on Graven Deep, or the "pokeball" on Scalecaller and so forth.
I dislike fake mechanics like arbitrary DPS checks and "you lag, you die" cheap-shots.

Nihilr

Soarora wrote: »

I’m pleasantly surprised by the results so far. Really was starting to feel like I was alone in this, glad to see that may not be the case.

@Nihilr in my experience, people don’t really get judgy in dungeons to peoples face unless things go wrong (dps is low, tank keeps dying, etc.) and if someone is judgy, the other members don’t appreciate it. It doesn’t happen very often, either. But I can understand not wanting to interact with people because judgy people are out there. Also not being able to fully listen to dialogue. I’d consider doing a DLC dungeon on normal, with any amount of players, as still enjoying them though.

In our experience people in DF queue for DLC dungeons get angry when dps isn't high enough, even if we're doing mechanics well enough. The issue is that we don't want to rely on copy-paste builds to be viable and complete story content. We want to try new sets that aren't meta. We want to use abilities that match our needs, not a role's needs in a 4-12 player group.

As I said already, you can gut the rewards for this content and we'd still be happy as long as we don't have to adjust our playtime for speedrunners and treasurehunters just trying to rush the dungeons to get gear they want for sets/stickerbooks. It's not even that we're bad at playing the mechanics, but the players that want to skip mechanics through dps burn is a lot more frequent than players who can, so it sets the bar higher than we would like.

Telling us "play other content then" is unacceptable too, because we subscribe and purchase these dungeons (or used to), until this last year because what's the point anymore? It's all about who can do so much damage with the same rotation/sets that it becomes the standard expectation for everyone to achieve.

Nestor

Yes

I love Dungeons. I range from indifferent to Rage Quit with Pugs.

Soarora

DLC

Nihilr wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I’m pleasantly surprised by the results so far. Really was starting to feel like I was alone in this, glad to see that may not be the case.

@Nihilr in my experience, people don’t really get judgy in dungeons to peoples face unless things go wrong (dps is low, tank keeps dying, etc.) and if someone is judgy, the other members don’t appreciate it. It doesn’t happen very often, either. But I can understand not wanting to interact with people because judgy people are out there. Also not being able to fully listen to dialogue. I’d consider doing a DLC dungeon on normal, with any amount of players, as still enjoying them though.

In our experience people in DF queue for DLC dungeons get angry when dps isn't high enough, even if we're doing mechanics well enough. The issue is that we don't want to rely on copy-paste builds to be viable and complete story content. We want to try new sets that aren't meta. We want to use abilities that match our needs, not a role's needs in a 4-12 player group.

As I said already, you can gut the rewards for this content and we'd still be happy as long as we don't have to adjust our playtime for speedrunners and treasurehunters just trying to rush the dungeons to get gear they want for sets/stickerbooks. It's not even that we're bad at playing the mechanics, but the players that want to skip mechanics through dps burn is a lot more frequent than players who can, so it sets the bar higher than we would like.

Telling us "play other content then" is unacceptable too, because we subscribe and purchase these dungeons (or used to), until this last year because what's the point anymore? It's all about who can do so much damage with the same rotation/sets that it becomes the standard expectation for everyone to achieve.

Ah, yeah I could see that. I don't really run into it much because of how I go about random vets nowadays but I understand the problem. I quite like doing mechanics too and don't like just dpsing. What's the point in doing content and not just standing at a dummy if there's no mechanics? So I find people who just want to burn through everything frustrating too even though it doesn't usually affect me. I really think the normal dungeon queue would benefit from having more sources of transmute or a speedrun queue. The current system does not treat players very nicely, to the point that I HATE doing random normals and will always do veteran if I can.

Dojohoda

Yes

They are okay.

pelle412

Yes

Dungeons are for me the most enjoyable instanced content. When I run a random normal I hope for DLC as they are not so mind-numbingly dull. I would not pug a veteran DLC as for that I want reliable players.

AvalonRanger

No

As a tank mainly, it's a painful job rather than enjoying the game.

Sometimes, brain dead DPS ignore situation control and let everyone die.
And gathering gear collection is painfully tedious.

Just first time I can enjoy DLC dungeon, but after that, it's a just daily mandatory.
I prefer solo story mission of DLC area than dungeon.

El_Borracho

Yes

Probably play dungeons more than any other content in this game. That being said, there are some pretty awful dungeons out there. Looking at you, Cradle of Shadows.

Jaimeh

Yes

Yes, they are extremely well designed, the NPCs and stories are great (and so many quotable awesome lines), the dlcs in particular have very interesting and involved mechanics, and they are on the whole well balanced content--also it's great that there are different levels of difficulty for different kinds of groups.

spartaxoxo

Yes

Dungeons are fun when you have a good group.

Tommy_The_Gun

No

I find dungeons to be kinda boring & repetitive. You do them once, for the story and skill points. Then, if you are interested in the gear sets you do them again and again and again and again... Have. Bloody. Mercy.

Worst part is that, it is that way "by design". Dungeons are designed to be done over & over again, except... it feels like an afterthought as each play through is the same ! Maybe add some kind of diversity ?

If you want the gear, you need to do that specific, repetitive and boring content. And it is not just you. There are other players doing this content too. So, after a while everyone gets frustrated and it gets kinda toxic.

I know that situation improved when they added curated gear drops, but still... how many times one need to do one dungeon ? Too many times imho. Oh and don't even get me started about mythic leads that drop from dungeons that have A PERCENTAGE DROP CHANCE. Whyyy ?

For the most part, I dislike the dungeons. Especially the ones that can't be soloed. I absolutely hate it. If I solo the dungeon, sure it takes longer, but you can skip a lot off mobs (and often bosses) and you are not running into other people that are frustrated by the grind.

I only buy DLC dungeon when I know it meets 2 conditions:
1. It has gear that I am interested in.
2. If it has gear, then I login to PTS and see if I can solo it.

If answer to both of those is "Yes", then and only then I may buy the DLC dungeon.

tincanman

Obigatory other.

I have been fond of dungeons in the past but, after running them a lot, I'm much less inclined to do so now. I prefer random vet if I ever queue, usually pre-formed group but will sometimes solo queue. I'll run random normals if levelling a new character for skill points and xp.

I can solo the base game vet dungeons that don't have some sort of blocking group mechanic, like direfrost but vet dlc solo is too much effort. I had no idea of the story or even a lot of the ambience of design until I was able to solo these dungeons. Even pre-made groups prefer to get it over with as fast as possible for transmutation crystals, xp and gear.

I used to rush to try out new dungeons on launch but not so much these days. If there's necessary gear I'll do them but I find myself thinking about other stuff and am not really interested as much anymore.

With AwA there's even less of a point - it used to be that each character would get associated achievements which provided some incentive to doing dungeons mutliple times but with AwA there's no point.

Soarora

DLC

tincanman wrote: »

Obigatory other.

I have been fond of dungeons in the past but, after running them a lot, I'm much less inclined to do so now. I prefer random vet if I ever queue, usually pre-formed group but will sometimes solo queue. I'll run random normals if levelling a new character for skill points and xp.

I can solo the base game vet dungeons that don't have some sort of blocking group mechanic, like direfrost but vet dlc solo is too much effort. I had no idea of the story or even a lot of the ambience of design until I was able to solo these dungeons. Even pre-made groups prefer to get it over with as fast as possible for transmutation crystals, xp and gear.

I used to rush to try out new dungeons on launch but not so much these days. If there's necessary gear I'll do them but I find myself thinking about other stuff and am not really interested as much anymore.

With AwA there's even less of a point - it used to be that each character would get associated achievements which provided some incentive to doing dungeons mutliple times but with AwA there's no point.

AwA definitely hurt dungeons. I know someone who was going to do each trifecta at least 3x— one on each role. Not anymore. I think I get where you’re coming from, I hate non dlc in my random vet because I’ve run them too many times and, importantly, they lack interesting mechanics. I could see that happening to even DLC after enough runs, though. I see myself becoming more picky with the dungeons I run now.

Papasears1982

Yes

Nihilr wrote: »

This is a bit of a tricky one. I like dungeons, I like puzzles, and mechanics, but I hate 4-player and 12-player content. I'd love to play content more if there was a co-op or solo rebalance for dungeons, with even weaker drops. This way my husband and I can just enjoy the quest, explore, do side bosses, etc--but without the elitists getting mad that we get the same gear.

Heck, if they had "white-rarity" gear, 80% fewer drop rates-- yet full mechanics, same health/armor on enemies, and overland-level amount of damage they dealt, we'd be happier.

We don't like being forced to play with people who get judgy about our builds or roles and their preemptive expectations, people who demand we practice on target dummies just to compete with players who care more about burning through boss mechanics entirely rather than completing those mechanics, or those who rush through the dungeon while we have to wait for dialogue to finish before getting the next step in a quest for the dungeon...

The list can go on forever.
Forcing people to join guilds and socialize, or to group with strangers who have a different expectation for what dungeons are, is why PUGs fall apart.


TL;DR: My husband and I play together, but shouldn't lose out on the quests and story of a dungeon in how it ties into the DLCs and chapters because other players are the worst parts about playing dungeons/trials.

edit: Think about how fewer "fake" roles would infiltrate 4-player dungeon finder queues if those players could just play the dungeon solo, slightly easier difficulty to balance for not having additional support like a dps/tank/healer (unless you count companions).

i would love to see duo dung runs, im hoping this "endless dungeon" thing helps with that

disintegr8

Needed a neutral option; I don't run them for fun, but don't mind doing them, provided I have a reason to do them. I also think some of the DLC dungeons are too long and can be troublesome for random groups with newer players.

As someone who completed every available dungeon (as well as most trials), in both normal and vet modes, before the sticker book existed, I feel a bit screwed over that all of the gear I picked up and got rid of over the years has to be re-farmed if I want it for the sticker book. Makes them seem more like a chore.

Necrotech_Master

Yes

i like dungeons, both to run in a group and as a solo challenge

i have different kind of pet peeves with dungeons, both with themselves, or when trying to do them in a random group

dungeons themselves:

• secret bosses or areas that require a minimum number of people to access
• mechanics that require a group
• dungeon itself requiring a group (example: direfrost pressure plates, ICP levers)
• invulnerability phases or extremely gimmicky mechanics

random groups:

• speedsters who just try to rush the group
• speedsters who ignore the group and run ahead (then proceed to blame the group when they die pulling 40 enemies after them)
• fake tanks without taunt (i dont care about them if they at least have taunt and attempting to do what a tank would do)
• fake heals without 1 aoe heal (even if all they use is echoing vigor, to me that is still performing the role by having a non-self heal)

M0ntie

Yes

Yes I love dungeons, and I especially like DLC dungeons.
The new ones have been great with beautiful scenery and interesting mechanics. ZoS seem to be listening by making the new ones have side bosses so the group can do a fast or slow option at their choice.

AvalonRanger

No

Tanking is just huge frustration because of brain dead DPS. Tanking is just for gear farming.
Tanking is just for saving my queue time.

Well, I want to be "Dragon Born" once again. Why? Because Dragon Born can do every role.

AvalonRanger

No

M0ntie wrote: »

Yes I love dungeons, and I especially like DLC dungeons.
The new ones have been great with beautiful scenery and interesting mechanics. ZoS seem to be listening by making the new ones have side bosses so the group can do a fast or slow option at their choice.

Agree...but there're no chance for the tank or healer to enjoy scenery...(/._.\).

Soarora

DLC

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Tanking is just huge frustration because of brain dead DPS. Tanking is just for gear farming.
Tanking is just for saving my queue time.

Well, I want to be "Dragon Born" once again. Why? Because Dragon Born can do every role.

AvalonRanger wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

Yes I love dungeons, and I especially like DLC dungeons.
The new ones have been great with beautiful scenery and interesting mechanics. ZoS seem to be listening by making the new ones have side bosses so the group can do a fast or slow option at their choice.

Agree...but there're no chance for the tank or healer to enjoy scenery...(/._.\).

Tanking has let me see more things than I have ever seen on any other role, though I only really get to see the scenery once everything is dead no matter role. I switched to my solo queues only being as tank and I have met some great players, both skilled and unskilled. Although there are streaks of bad pugs I take that as time to stop for a while. If you want to be Dovahkiin, go play Skyrim.

AcadianPaladin

Non-DLC

I love soloing group dungeons - no respawns on my head if I dawdle, unlimited time to smell the roses and loot everything, fun combat, savor the ambiance on my own timing, run to the bathroom/get a drink/change skills between fights, no other players in the way. All these things make group dungeons superior to publics or delves. Since I can solo almost a dozen non-DLC dungeons, those are the ones I love. Since I can't solo DLC dungeons, I ignore them completely.

I am grateful for the nice spectrum of 'challenge' afforded by group dungeons. That some are not appropriate for my playstyle is no problem since there are other players who enjoy the really hard ones and the game is big enough to allow tons of fun things to do even after filtering out things my character doesn't enjoy.

AvalonRanger

No

Receiving group healing skill many times, but can't survive longer than DPS.
That's fake tank regardless taunt or not. Can't become pure DPS in those situation.

ESO group dungeon is terrible contents for the fair DPS players.
I usually encounter fake tank or fake healer "3 per1 rate" in random normal run. And wiped.
So I don't play random by DPS character mostly. Because it's a time wasting.

Solo story contents is pure entertainment for me than group dungeon.

vsrs_au

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I love soloing group dungeons - no respawns on my head if I dawdle, unlimited time to smell the roses and loot everything, fun combat, savor the ambiance on my own timing, run to the bathroom/get a drink/change skills between fights, no other players in the way. All these things make group dungeons superior to publics or delves. Since I can solo almost a dozen non-DLC dungeons, those are the ones I love. Since I can't solo DLC dungeons, I ignore them completely.

I am grateful for the nice spectrum of 'challenge' afforded by group dungeons. That some are not appropriate for my playstyle is no problem since there are other players who enjoy the really hard ones and the game is big enough to allow tons of fun things to do even after filtering out things my character doesn't enjoy.

Exactly the same here, same approach to dungeons and same reasons. My list of soloed group dungeons is very modest, only 8 so far, but I'm looking forward to one day soloing some more. These dungeons also typically have some very nice scenery, so I take numerous screenshots while I'm in one I haven't entered before.

isadoraisacat

No

As of a few nights prior doing normal ones with my friendly guild I’d say yes.

As of tonight, trying my first non dlc vet dungeon in the finder I’d say no. I may never do them again after my experience.

They voted to kick someone out, i didn’t vote because we were almost done why take away the rewards just because someone is learning ?

Anyway when that person was gone the one random guy proceeds to mock my cp level and tell me I’m “terrible”

I just got off work a really really bad day at work I work 7 friggin days a week. And I figured I’d get a pledge done to get the last few transmutes I need to add a better trait to my stave and this happens.

From here in I can’t see myself being able
To improve my gear or progress into higher content in fear of being mocked.

I’ve been a solo player since 2018. I just started in the last month doing group content and joining guilds. Prior I just did solo story and that’s it I didn’t even attempt world bosses. (Now I can solo most of them).

At this rate it has me really discouraged and makes me want to go back to turning my status offline and just playing the chapter stories, and never improving my gear.

This is the reason I avoided the multiplayer aspects of the game. Guild members are great but these random dungeon players are about as toxic as the way rest sewers I met them in.

KaosWarMonk

Yes

I just wish they weren't group-walled, see above.