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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Can we get a serious nerf to Druid King?
Lord_Archaic
✭✭✭
Period. It's too [snip] powerful. We need the same types of active effects on other decks or a complete removal of that system completely. If I go against a deck stacked with it.....I lose, everytime. And vice versa if I stack my deck.
Rajhin does nothing to it, Ive played a game with half my deck of 40 cards be bewilderment cards and still won by a large margin. [snip]
[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 27, 2023 5:39PM Rajhin does nothing to it, Ive played a game with half my deck of 40 cards be bewilderment cards and still won by a large margin. [snip]
[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]
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Stinkyremy✭✭✭✭✭I found that you pretty much have to both fight over druid, it seems that is what the deck is designed for because of the chimera adding druid cards, it is technically an infinite deck, so when it is in a game, you both have to buy the druid cards, fight over the patron and use it to get rid of druid cards so the opponent cannot get them.
I have seen no other counter to it, unlike other decks who have a hard counter by another deck.
Best to pair it with the gold deck so that you can sacrifice cards so your deck does not become too stacked as end game you will want to get rid of the lower currency cards.0 -
NeKryXe✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not needed. Nothing needs to be nerfed in ToT because you can use it too.
Even if Druid King is powerful (and I think Crows are way more powerful) you can always use it too.
I don't own the Druid King deck, so, obviously I never selected it, but when someone does, I just use it. The same goes to Orgnum. I hate it, I never select it as my choice, but when someone brings it to the table I use it. That's the beauty of ToT, No one is too powerful, because you play the same cards.3 -
Lord_Archaic✭✭✭It's not needed. Nothing needs to be nerfed in ToT because you can use it too.
Even if Druid King is powerful (and I think Crows are way more powerful) you can always use it too.
I don't own the Druid King deck, so, obviously I never selected it, but when someone does, I just use it. The same goes to Orgnum. I hate it, I never select it as my choice, but when someone brings it to the table I use it. That's the beauty of ToT, No one is too powerful, because you play the same cards.
Crows require you to stack your deck. All Druid requires is that both players stack their decks with agents. Druids needs to only proc off it's own cards, not the opponents.1 -
NeKryXe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Archaic wrote: »It's not needed. Nothing needs to be nerfed in ToT because you can use it too.
Even if Druid King is powerful (and I think Crows are way more powerful) you can always use it too.
I don't own the Druid King deck, so, obviously I never selected it, but when someone does, I just use it. The same goes to Orgnum. I hate it, I never select it as my choice, but when someone brings it to the table I use it. That's the beauty of ToT, No one is too powerful, because you play the same cards.
Crows require you to stack your deck. All Druid requires is that both players stack their decks with agents. Druids needs to only proc off it's own cards, not the opponents.
Exactly. Each deck requires something.0 -
Lord_Archaic✭✭✭Lord_Archaic wrote: »It's not needed. Nothing needs to be nerfed in ToT because you can use it too.
Even if Druid King is powerful (and I think Crows are way more powerful) you can always use it too.
I don't own the Druid King deck, so, obviously I never selected it, but when someone does, I just use it. The same goes to Orgnum. I hate it, I never select it as my choice, but when someone brings it to the table I use it. That's the beauty of ToT, No one is too powerful, because you play the same cards.
Crows require you to stack your deck. All Druid requires is that both players stack their decks with agents. Druids needs to only proc off it's own cards, not the opponents.
Exactly. Each deck requires something.
The point of that is that you can't use your own agent's abilities, without giving the opponent a bunch of gold the next turn. The one druid that gives gold should be reduced to Your agents other than this card. If you can't see that it is too damaging to the landscape, You're just lying. Simple as that.Edited by Lord_Archaic on January 27, 2023 9:46PM0 -
NeKryXe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Archaic wrote: »Lord_Archaic wrote: »It's not needed. Nothing needs to be nerfed in ToT because you can use it too.
Even if Druid King is powerful (and I think Crows are way more powerful) you can always use it too.
I don't own the Druid King deck, so, obviously I never selected it, but when someone does, I just use it. The same goes to Orgnum. I hate it, I never select it as my choice, but when someone brings it to the table I use it. That's the beauty of ToT, No one is too powerful, because you play the same cards.
Crows require you to stack your deck. All Druid requires is that both players stack their decks with agents. Druids needs to only proc off it's own cards, not the opponents.
Exactly. Each deck requires something.
The point of that is that you can't use your own agent's abilities, without giving the opponent a bunch of gold the next turn. The one druid that gives gold should be reduced to Your agents other than this card. If you can't see that it is too damaging to the landscape, You're just lying. Simple as that.
I understand. But you have the option not to activate your agents. It annoys me less than the infinite Crows' combos. So, as you can see there'll be always something to annoy someone. If they nerf Druid I want Crows nerfed, if they nerf Crows, someone will want Orgnum nerfed... and so on.
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Rouz✭✭✭" found that you pretty much have to both fight over druid"
This is every primary deck in the game for the most part. Hell every s-tier card in general. If an armory or rally drops, you HAVE to get it. You have to fight over it. You HAVE to fight over every crow card.
A built out crow deck, green deck, or pelin deck can fight against druid king just fine. I've done it many times before.
Rahjin is not meant to stand up to druid king on its own. Its more of a support deck. It has little to no power generation. Its whole purpose is to slow the roll of an enemy player. If you tried to win a game by purely relying upon rahjin, yeah of course its not gonna happen.
The real issue with this game is the Tavern. Because the tavern moves at a snails pace and you don't get new cards every turn, both players end up fighting over scraps. What ends up happening is usually one player has the opportunity to actually build out a strategy and a deck while the other player can't. As a result it rarely is a close game in deck advantages. So one side builds up a druid king advantage, but you may not have had the chance to counter it properly because you didn't have the chance to build out a deck in defense.
Balance of power being too focused on either singular cards in a card OR the snowball being too powerful too soon (crow) is one part of the issue with this mini game. The other part is the tavern system that extends matches, creates one sided matches, prevents strategies from being employed, and promotes general unhealthy style of plays. Druid king needing a nerf is not needed. Its easy to fight if you actually have the chance to build a deck.
But its 5 months since the last balance update to this game. We probably wont see them touch the balance for till either the next dungeon release (6 months since last balance pass) or potentially the next chapter release. I'm guessing the low participation rate of this activity means they're not dedicating as many people into the management of it.0 -
Stinkyremy✭✭✭✭✭" found that you pretty much have to both fight over druid"
This is every primary deck in the game for the most part. Hell every s-tier card in general. If an armory or rally drops, you HAVE to get it. You have to fight over it. You HAVE to fight over every crow card.
Not really, for eg crow, you get the blue deck and it pretty much negates the deck as you take away all the crow agents.
Yes we all fight over the best cards, but say crow, you could just completely neglect it while the other player gets all the crow cards and just stack another deck. A full gold deck or red deck is just as powerful as a full crow deck.
What I am saying is druid, both players need to fight over it and look to stack the deck or the other player will in no time have pretty much a 100% full druid deck that will ruin you, specifically because of the chimera passive.0 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just keep knocking out your opponent's agents. The Rajhin deck has some good cards for doing that.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!1 -
Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yesterday i had a match where my opponent choose Druid deck and to make synergy with it i choose Psijic deck.
All i can say is that toss mechanic and gaining power whenever a card is put into cooldown pile is just pure broken. Basically whoever manages to buy that two gold costing Druid card wins the game. I do not even count where you can also get Forest Spirit allowing you two get two power per card that is put into cooldown. Not sure if this is intended or not but you can make nasty combos with this.0 -
WitchyKiki✭✭✭lmao druid isnt half as problematic as decks like crow. I dont understand the endless complaining over this deck when crow is braindead and still manages to win games in a blink.1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crow has more weaknesses than Druid King. It's counterplay is more clear cut and it has less other decks it synergizes well with.
Druid King is good at generating both coin and power, it's combos more reliable since it relies on agents rather than cards ending up in your hand at the same time and it auto creates more Druid King cards without you needing to buy them, its patron is consistently useful, and it synergizes well with most decks since it can do some of everything.Edited by spartaxoxo on February 10, 2023 6:04AM0 -
WitchyKiki✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Crow has more weaknesses than Druid King. It's counterplay is more clear cut and it has less other decks it synergizes well with.
Druid King is good at generating both coin and power, it's combos more reliable since it relies on agents rather than cards ending up in your hand at the same time and it auto creates more Druid King cards without you needing to buy them, its patron is consistently useful, and it synergizes well with most decks since it can do some of everything.
Crow helps all decks, all it does is draw cards endlessly. Keep drawing your whole deck, doesnt matter what cards you have, power, coin, druid, rahjiin - they all benefit from crow. I have seem people legit draw out their whole deck, 90 seconds each turn. Its so annoying, at least druid finishes games with its power generation.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Crow has more weaknesses than Druid King. It's counterplay is more clear cut and it has less other decks it synergizes well with.
Druid King is good at generating both coin and power, it's combos more reliable since it relies on agents rather than cards ending up in your hand at the same time and it auto creates more Druid King cards without you needing to buy them, its patron is consistently useful, and it synergizes well with most decks since it can do some of everything.
Crow helps all decks, all it does is draw cards endlessly. Keep drawing your whole deck, doesnt matter what cards you have, power, coin, druid, rahjiin - they all benefit from crow. I have seem people legit draw out their whole deck, 90 seconds each turn. Its so annoying, at least druid finishes games with its power generation.
Yeah. You can get those big draws, but a lot of times if you're buying up other cards it breaks up the crow combos. So usually you want to buy up all the crows and focus less on the other decks with the exception of S tier cards like Currency Exchange.
It's also slow enough to get those combos going that stuff like Pelin can just rush it down before it happens. It also doesn't generate additional crow cards, so your opponent can buy them up from you or use tavern churns on them.
Druid King benefits everything in addition to be being benefited by everything.
For example, Pelin adds little to crow because while crow has good agents, it is not reliant on them. DK is heavy reliant on agents and Pelin protects it's agents.
Etc etc.Edited by spartaxoxo on February 11, 2023 4:23AM0 -
WitchyKiki✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Crow has more weaknesses than Druid King. It's counterplay is more clear cut and it has less other decks it synergizes well with.
Druid King is good at generating both coin and power, it's combos more reliable since it relies on agents rather than cards ending up in your hand at the same time and it auto creates more Druid King cards without you needing to buy them, its patron is consistently useful, and it synergizes well with most decks since it can do some of everything.
Crow helps all decks, all it does is draw cards endlessly. Keep drawing your whole deck, doesnt matter what cards you have, power, coin, druid, rahjiin - they all benefit from crow. I have seem people legit draw out their whole deck, 90 seconds each turn. Its so annoying, at least druid finishes games with its power generation.
Yeah. You can get those big draws, but a lot of times if you're buying up other cards it breaks up the crow combos. So usually you want to buy up all the crows and focus less on the other decks with the exception of S tier cards like Currency Exchange.
It's also slow enough to get those combos going that stuff like Pelin can just rush it down before it happens. It also doesn't generate additional crow cards, so your opponent can buy them up from you or use tavern churns on them.
Druid King benefits everything in addition to be being benefited by everything.
For example, Pelin adds little to crow because while crow has good agents, it is not reliant on them. DK is heavy reliant on agents and Pelin protects it's agents.
Etc etc.
Pretty sure you just proved my point.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Crow has more weaknesses than Druid King. It's counterplay is more clear cut and it has less other decks it synergizes well with.
Druid King is good at generating both coin and power, it's combos more reliable since it relies on agents rather than cards ending up in your hand at the same time and it auto creates more Druid King cards without you needing to buy them, its patron is consistently useful, and it synergizes well with most decks since it can do some of everything.
Crow helps all decks, all it does is draw cards endlessly. Keep drawing your whole deck, doesnt matter what cards you have, power, coin, druid, rahjiin - they all benefit from crow. I have seem people legit draw out their whole deck, 90 seconds each turn. Its so annoying, at least druid finishes games with its power generation.
Yeah. You can get those big draws, but a lot of times if you're buying up other cards it breaks up the crow combos. So usually you want to buy up all the crows and focus less on the other decks with the exception of S tier cards like Currency Exchange.
It's also slow enough to get those combos going that stuff like Pelin can just rush it down before it happens. It also doesn't generate additional crow cards, so your opponent can buy them up from you or use tavern churns on them.
Druid King benefits everything in addition to be being benefited by everything.
For example, Pelin adds little to crow because while crow has good agents, it is not reliant on them. DK is heavy reliant on agents and Pelin protects it's agents.
Etc etc.
Pretty sure you just proved my point.
I'm not sure how I did that when the point of my post is that crow is easier to stop than Druid King. Would you please elaborate?Edited by spartaxoxo on February 11, 2023 8:25PM0 -
WitchyKiki✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Crow has more weaknesses than Druid King. It's counterplay is more clear cut and it has less other decks it synergizes well with.
Druid King is good at generating both coin and power, it's combos more reliable since it relies on agents rather than cards ending up in your hand at the same time and it auto creates more Druid King cards without you needing to buy them, its patron is consistently useful, and it synergizes well with most decks since it can do some of everything.
Crow helps all decks, all it does is draw cards endlessly. Keep drawing your whole deck, doesnt matter what cards you have, power, coin, druid, rahjiin - they all benefit from crow. I have seem people legit draw out their whole deck, 90 seconds each turn. Its so annoying, at least druid finishes games with its power generation.
Yeah. You can get those big draws, but a lot of times if you're buying up other cards it breaks up the crow combos. So usually you want to buy up all the crows and focus less on the other decks with the exception of S tier cards like Currency Exchange.
It's also slow enough to get those combos going that stuff like Pelin can just rush it down before it happens. It also doesn't generate additional crow cards, so your opponent can buy them up from you or use tavern churns on them.
Druid King benefits everything in addition to be being benefited by everything.
For example, Pelin adds little to crow because while crow has good agents, it is not reliant on them. DK is heavy reliant on agents and Pelin protects it's agents.
Etc etc.
Pretty sure you just proved my point.
I'm not sure how I did that when the point of my post is that crow is easier to stop than Druid King. Would you please elaborate?
I am pretty sure i did earlier, by mentioning that combos from crow by drawing cards also trigger combos from other decks, and even if it doesnt you still get the added benefit of drawing extra cards to pull in more money and more power. Truth be told, if you see crow you HAVE to pick it up, because if the other person gets enough of them you will be sitting there fighting a losing game. Pelin also benefits from crow, I would say, it tremendously does. Your argument doesnt really prove this otherwise. Not sure I can further elaborate to make it simpler.Edited by WitchyKiki on February 11, 2023 9:33PM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Crow has more weaknesses than Druid King. It's counterplay is more clear cut and it has less other decks it synergizes well with.
Druid King is good at generating both coin and power, it's combos more reliable since it relies on agents rather than cards ending up in your hand at the same time and it auto creates more Druid King cards without you needing to buy them, its patron is consistently useful, and it synergizes well with most decks since it can do some of everything.
Crow helps all decks, all it does is draw cards endlessly. Keep drawing your whole deck, doesnt matter what cards you have, power, coin, druid, rahjiin - they all benefit from crow. I have seem people legit draw out their whole deck, 90 seconds each turn. Its so annoying, at least druid finishes games with its power generation.
Yeah. You can get those big draws, but a lot of times if you're buying up other cards it breaks up the crow combos. So usually you want to buy up all the crows and focus less on the other decks with the exception of S tier cards like Currency Exchange.
It's also slow enough to get those combos going that stuff like Pelin can just rush it down before it happens. It also doesn't generate additional crow cards, so your opponent can buy them up from you or use tavern churns on them.
Druid King benefits everything in addition to be being benefited by everything.
For example, Pelin adds little to crow because while crow has good agents, it is not reliant on them. DK is heavy reliant on agents and Pelin protects it's agents.
Etc etc.
Pretty sure you just proved my point.
I'm not sure how I did that when the point of my post is that crow is easier to stop than Druid King. Would you please elaborate?
I am pretty sure i did earlier, by mentioning that combos from crow by drawing cards also trigger combos from other decks, and even if it doesnt you still get the added benefit of drawing extra cards to pull in more money and more power. Truth be told, if you see crow you HAVE to pick it up, because if the other person gets enough of them you will be sitting there fighting a losing game. Pelin also benefits from crow, I would say, it tremendously does. Your argument doesnt really prove this otherwise. Not sure I can further elaborate to make it simpler.
And my rebuttal to that was saying that
often a player is generally better off just taking crows and limiting the other cards they take on from other decks so as not to break up the crow combo. Which does not prove that point.
The Pelin deck isn't really being helped by being largely ignored except for like the S-Tier cards like Rally, which everyone is gonna want to take or deny regardless of the deck you choose (and other decks are better at giving it to you more frequently). Honestly, Pelin is one of the best decks at countering crows.
The broken combos are why Red Eagle is usually paired with it to get rid of cards.
Druid King on the other hand can convert cards from any deck into coin or power. So that even it's trash cards can become worth a grab depending on the circumstances. I've won games with low quality trash cards in the tavern just because I had that card that let you turn any card into your cooldown into power and used it to rush to 40.Edited by spartaxoxo on February 11, 2023 10:55PM0 -
WitchyKiki✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Crow has more weaknesses than Druid King. It's counterplay is more clear cut and it has less other decks it synergizes well with.
Druid King is good at generating both coin and power, it's combos more reliable since it relies on agents rather than cards ending up in your hand at the same time and it auto creates more Druid King cards without you needing to buy them, its patron is consistently useful, and it synergizes well with most decks since it can do some of everything.
Crow helps all decks, all it does is draw cards endlessly. Keep drawing your whole deck, doesnt matter what cards you have, power, coin, druid, rahjiin - they all benefit from crow. I have seem people legit draw out their whole deck, 90 seconds each turn. Its so annoying, at least druid finishes games with its power generation.
Yeah. You can get those big draws, but a lot of times if you're buying up other cards it breaks up the crow combos. So usually you want to buy up all the crows and focus less on the other decks with the exception of S tier cards like Currency Exchange.
It's also slow enough to get those combos going that stuff like Pelin can just rush it down before it happens. It also doesn't generate additional crow cards, so your opponent can buy them up from you or use tavern churns on them.
Druid King benefits everything in addition to be being benefited by everything.
For example, Pelin adds little to crow because while crow has good agents, it is not reliant on them. DK is heavy reliant on agents and Pelin protects it's agents.
Etc etc.
Pretty sure you just proved my point.
I'm not sure how I did that when the point of my post is that crow is easier to stop than Druid King. Would you please elaborate?
I am pretty sure i did earlier, by mentioning that combos from crow by drawing cards also trigger combos from other decks, and even if it doesnt you still get the added benefit of drawing extra cards to pull in more money and more power. Truth be told, if you see crow you HAVE to pick it up, because if the other person gets enough of them you will be sitting there fighting a losing game. Pelin also benefits from crow, I would say, it tremendously does. Your argument doesnt really prove this otherwise. Not sure I can further elaborate to make it simpler.
And my rebuttal to that was saying that you're generally better off just taking crows and limiting the other cards you take on from other decks so as not to break up the crow combo. Which does not prove that point. The Pelin deck isn't really being helped by being largely ignored except for like the S-Tier cards like Rally, which you're gonna want to take regardless of the deck you choose (and other decks are better at giving it to you more frequently). Honestly, Pelin is one of the best decks at countering crows.
The broken combos are why Red Eagle is usually paired with it to get rid of cards.
Druid King on the other hand can convert cards from any deck into coin or power. So that even it's trash cards can become worth a grab depending on the circumstances. I've won games with low quality trash cards in the tavern just because I had that card that let you turn any card into your cooldown into power and used it to rush to 40.
(: ok.0
