This game so badly needs to allow account transfer between PC, Xbox and PS

Tandor

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

You can't even transfer a character from PC-NA to PC-EU. This has nothing to do with Sony or Microsoft. It is clear that the megaserver databases were designed to be completely independent from each other and to reuse unique keys.

It is kind of like how it is fine for Joe in Accounting to transfer to Sales even if there is already a Joe in Sales. They may have same name but will have different Employee IDs. So you can unlink them from Accounting and link them to Sales, but based on unique Employee ID, all their other information will come along without a problem (salary history, expense reports, vacation days, retirement plan, health insurance, etc., etc.).

But if Joe at Amazon goes to work for Google, you can't transfer all that history easily. Joe might be Employee #1234 at Amazon, but Sally is already Employee #1234 at Google. So even if they use same HR software, you have database key conflicts. So you can't just throw Joe's records into the Google database or else you will not be able to tell which are Sally's and which are Joe's.

You could try to change Joe's number ahead of time, in some kind of temporary storage before finally writing to Google database. But there may be hundreds or thousands of database records with Joe's ids in them. And it is never a single database key. These keys often cascade. Like in ESO, you might have a unique account number and a unique character number and a unique guild number and a unique house number (i.e., a number that differentiates my copy of Gold Coast Manor from other players' Gold Coast Manors), and unique housing storage container numbers (i.e., what differentiates my copy of "Fortified Oaken Chest" from another player) and on and on and on. So you have item #1234 linked to storage container #2345 linked to house #3456 linked to character #4567.

So you don't have to just change #1234 to a different number in a single place. You likely have to change dozens of numbers in thousands of places and make sure all the new numbers are properly linked together. It is like a spider web of links going back and forth and up and down and all around the database. It is a mess and easy to goof up. And often hard to see. Like you can get a housing storage container number wrong, and suddenly Joe's inventory is mixed in with Sally's. And Sally may just say, "Oh. I did not realize I had a gold Lady Thorn mask. I thought it was still purple." Then she takes it out and starts wearing it. But that was Joe's gold Lady Thorn mask. And now he can't find his gold Lady Thorn mask. Or maybe he never really wears that mask and does not even notice it is missing for weeks or months.

This is not easy stuff. It is called a "database merge". I have worked with multi-billion dollar companies that have devoted huge teams and millions of dollars to doing database merges and it is still difficult, tedious, time consuming work.

Is it possible? Yes. But it is a lot more complicated than, "Just add _PC to the end of my character name!"

And there will be executives saying, "If you spend 2 million and 4 months on this, will it make more than 2 million in server transfer fees? And if it would turn a profit, would it be a larger profit than spending 2 million dollars and 4 months on something else?"

This is one of those few posts that can be truly said to have won the internet for the day. It should be automatically stickied at the top of every thread that complains about the lack of server transfers. And it doesn't even touch on the contractual problems affecting platform transfers!

SpacemanSpiff1

just run a cable from one server to another to another.

BretonMage

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

You can't even transfer a character from PC-NA to PC-EU. This has nothing to do with Sony or Microsoft. It is clear that the megaserver databases were designed to be completely independent from each other and to reuse unique keys.

It is kind of like how it is fine for Joe in Accounting to transfer to Sales even if there is already a Joe in Sales. They may have same name but will have different Employee IDs. So you can unlink them from Accounting and link them to Sales, but based on unique Employee ID, all their other information will come along without a problem (salary history, expense reports, vacation days, retirement plan, health insurance, etc., etc.).

But if Joe at Amazon goes to work for Google, you can't transfer all that history easily. Joe might be Employee #1234 at Amazon, but Sally is already Employee #1234 at Google. So even if they use same HR software, you have database key conflicts. So you can't just throw Joe's records into the Google database or else you will not be able to tell which are Sally's and which are Joe's.

You could try to change Joe's number ahead of time, in some kind of temporary storage before finally writing to Google database. But there may be hundreds or thousands of database records with Joe's ids in them. And it is never a single database key. These keys often cascade. Like in ESO, you might have a unique account number and a unique character number and a unique guild number and a unique house number (i.e., a number that differentiates my copy of Gold Coast Manor from other players' Gold Coast Manors), and unique housing storage container numbers (i.e., what differentiates my copy of "Fortified Oaken Chest" from another player) and on and on and on. So you have item #1234 linked to storage container #2345 linked to house #3456 linked to character #4567.

So you don't have to just change #1234 to a different number in a single place. You likely have to change dozens of numbers in thousands of places and make sure all the new numbers are properly linked together. It is like a spider web of links going back and forth and up and down and all around the database. It is a mess and easy to goof up. And often hard to see. Like you can get a housing storage container number wrong, and suddenly Joe's inventory is mixed in with Sally's. And Sally may just say, "Oh. I did not realize I had a gold Lady Thorn mask. I thought it was still purple." Then she takes it out and starts wearing it. But that was Joe's gold Lady Thorn mask. And now he can't find his gold Lady Thorn mask. Or maybe he never really wears that mask and does not even notice it is missing for weeks or months.

This is not easy stuff. It is called a "database merge". I have worked with multi-billion dollar companies that have devoted huge teams and millions of dollars to doing database merges and it is still difficult, tedious, time consuming work.

Is it possible? Yes. But it is a lot more complicated than, "Just add _PC to the end of my character name!"

And there will be executives saying, "If you spend 2 million and 4 months on this, will it make more than 2 million in server transfer fees? And if it would turn a profit, would it be a larger profit than spending 2 million dollars and 4 months on something else?"

If it is complicated, but legally possible, then why not just charge an appropriate amount for a character transfer? If I were relocating internationally, I'm sure paying $100, or maybe even more, to preserve my character after years of work would be worth it. And ZOS would get to keep a subscribing player too.

Also, would it be similarly complicated if the items were not transferred? Does each character's collectibles have unique IDs too? I can't imagine having to grind the stickerbook all over again.

kargen27

JMadFour wrote: »

Cross-Save and Cross-Play should be the standard, full-stop.

It is 2023. It's time for MMOs to modernize.

You should be able to log into any platform that the game is on and have access to your same characters, guilds, and friends.

Don't give me excuses for why it can't be done when plenty of other games do it just fine.

(especially if your excuse is "but the guild trader economy." I literally do not care.)

Can you provide examples of games that do so with the server configuration ZoS uses? The games I can think of that do this have much smaller player populations on each server. Also any of these games released in 2014?

Amottica

kargen27 wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

Cross-Save and Cross-Play should be the standard, full-stop.

It is 2023. It's time for MMOs to modernize.

You should be able to log into any platform that the game is on and have access to your same characters, guilds, and friends.

Don't give me excuses for why it can't be done when plenty of other games do it just fine.

(especially if your excuse is "but the guild trader economy." I literally do not care.)

Can you provide examples of games that do so with the server configuration ZoS uses? The games I can think of that do this have much smaller player populations on each server. Also any of these games released in 2014?

The only game I play that has crossplay is not an MMORPG. OW2 tried to have crossplay but the original design did not work. They did not permit consoles to have targeting assist when playing with PC players which put them at a huge disadvantage.

When they gave consoles their targeting assist they separated the queues. I think they are playing with PC only when grouped with PC players because since that change I have always been in a PC only queue.

We would have the same issue in ESO. Consoles would be at a disadvantage without addons and probably without a targeting assist. It seems they will be getting add-ons and should not ahve targetting assist. So probably a bad idea to even try.

Gray_howling_parrot

Not even necessarily a paid transfer of accounts/characters - they need to modernize their severs and allow for cross-save and cross-platform play in my opinion. It'd be much easier to manage 2 mega severs than 6. It's not like they don't have the funds to do it either, the housing community alone could fund it lol.

DMuehlhausen

Maybe it does, but no other game really allows it and most of the time it's Sony blocking it from happening. This isn't a ZoS thing

blktauna

Jaustink wrote: »

Not even necessarily a paid transfer of accounts/characters - they need to modernize their severs and allow for cross-save and cross-platform play in my opinion. It'd be much easier to manage 2 mega severs than 6. It's not like they don't have the funds to do it either, the housing community alone could fund it lol.

Modernising servers has nothing to do with database transfer nor the architecture of the game. When this was written is is obvious they broke up the systems into distinct, small, whole unto themselves dbs. It was not written to be crossplay because that wasn't a thing then. The databases for the consoles may not even be st up the same way as for the PC. Thats a nightmare I would not ant to do a merge on.

Thecompton73

After restarting from scratch and spending the last year leveling up 3 toons and getting to over 1000CP on PC after having every class leveled and over 1600CP on the PS server it honestly would probably annoy me more than please me if they made it happen now.
I would really like to be able to have access to all the things I bought for crowns on all my accounts though.

Amottica

Jaustink wrote: »

Not even necessarily a paid transfer of accounts/characters - they need to modernize their severs and allow for cross-save and cross-platform play in my opinion. It'd be much easier to manage 2 mega severs than 6. It's not like they don't have the funds to do it either, the housing community alone could fund it lol.

The servers struggle to handle the population on six separate servers and the suggestion is to bring it all together on two servers, essentially tripling the population.

That would be a train wreck of titanic proportions. Not even with the hardware upgrades they are doing.

kargen27

blktauna wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

Not even necessarily a paid transfer of accounts/characters - they need to modernize their severs and allow for cross-save and cross-platform play in my opinion. It'd be much easier to manage 2 mega severs than 6. It's not like they don't have the funds to do it either, the housing community alone could fund it lol.

Modernising servers has nothing to do with database transfer nor the architecture of the game. When this was written is is obvious they broke up the systems into distinct, small, whole unto themselves dbs. It was not written to be crossplay because that wasn't a thing then. The databases for the consoles may not even be st up the same way as for the PC. Thats a nightmare I would not ant to do a merge on.

Even if the were the same and it could work I don't want it for a purely selfish reason. I don't want my character "Fred the Great" to be renamed "Fred the GreatPC" because someone on Xbox stole my characters name.

Amottica

kargen27 wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

Not even necessarily a paid transfer of accounts/characters - they need to modernize their severs and allow for cross-save and cross-platform play in my opinion. It'd be much easier to manage 2 mega severs than 6. It's not like they don't have the funds to do it either, the housing community alone could fund it lol.

Modernising servers has nothing to do with database transfer nor the architecture of the game. When this was written is is obvious they broke up the systems into distinct, small, whole unto themselves dbs. It was not written to be crossplay because that wasn't a thing then. The databases for the consoles may not even be st up the same way as for the PC. Thats a nightmare I would not ant to do a merge on.

Even if the were the same and it could work I don't want it for a purely selfish reason. I don't want my character "Fred the Great" to be renamed "Fred the GreatPC" because someone on Xbox stole my characters name.

That is a good point, but not one Zenimax would be to concerned about.

The stronger point is that this thread is a week old and is still on its second page even with multiple people posting multiple times. That demonstrates there is a very limited interest which shows this is not desperately needed.

Stx

I desperately want to play ESO on my ps5 on my big TV from my couch.

But I absolutely refuse to start from scratch without all my crown store purchases. I’ve played this game since launch, and although I don’t often buy crowns, I play with ESO plus and have accumulated a lot of mounts, armor skins, costumes, weapon packs etc from the crown store.

I am absolutely not giving those up.

I would be more than happy to buy the game for console. Hell I would even be willing to start from scratch leveling characters and skills etc. But losing all that cash value from cosmetics? No way.

SpacemanSpiff1

Stx wrote: »

I desperately want to play ESO on my ps5 on my big TV from my couch.

But I absolutely refuse to start from scratch without all my crown store purchases. I’ve played this game since launch, and although I don’t often buy crowns, I play with ESO plus and have accumulated a lot of mounts, armor skins, costumes, weapon packs etc from the crown store.

I am absolutely not giving those up.

I would be more than happy to buy the game for console. Hell I would even be willing to start from scratch leveling characters and skills etc. But losing all that cash value from cosmetics? No way.

you can use a pc on a big tv. and with a gamepad.

Jeirno

one massive issue with server transfers or crossplay would be economy. Since it player-driven, someone from PC/EU could transfer to the console for whatever reason and the value of their gold would more than quadruple. As there is way more gold on PC/EU than lets say xbox EU, and the value of items is vastly different. Same goes for transferring from Xbox to PC, you would more than quadruple the value of your crafting materials for example and become much richer instantly. The latter in a sense isn't a problem.

XSTRONG

Jeirno wrote: »

one massive issue with server transfers or crossplay would be economy. Since it player-driven, someone from PC/EU could transfer to the console for whatever reason and the value of their gold would more than quadruple. As there is way more gold on PC/EU than lets say xbox EU, and the value of items is vastly different. Same goes for transferring from Xbox to PC, you would more than quadruple the value of your crafting materials for example and become much richer instantly. The latter in a sense isn't a problem.

And Guildtraders, Imagine a PC guild competing against a console guild over Guildtraders lol.

If they ever do crossplay real i think they need to delete all gold in game and not many would like that hehe but the Gold grind after that would be insane.

They would also need to up the In game gold sources and then nerf it when economy is more stable.

Maddoghalo1

Absolutely. This is the only reason I quit ESO. I’m not starting all over again on PC. Destiny 2 I can play on Xbox, then hop right on my PC and continue where I left off. I can also be on Xbox and play with friends on both ps4 and steam or with random from all platforms. That easy, cross save. I dont like destiny 2 nearly as much but till ESO can figure it out I won’t be subbing ESO+ or buying any new expansions. Won’t re buy everything I have and crown store stuff along with collectibles and ya you know. EVERYTHING.

If ESO had serious plans to really continue this game into the future they would do this hands down. It’s the new standard. When I stopped playing game numbers were heavily dwindling and the world was constantly empty except for events or new releases.

But I have a feeling they will never make this happen as they will just milk ESO funds as much as they can till they decide it’s time to pull the plug on this.

Tandor

Maddoghalo1 wrote: »

If ESO had serious plans to really continue this game into the future they would do this hands down. It’s the new standard. When I stopped playing game numbers were heavily dwindling and the world was constantly empty except for events or new releases.

But I have a feeling they will never make this happen as they will just milk ESO funds as much as they can till they decide it’s time to pull the plug on this.

Game numbers may or may not have been dwindling on Xbox, I wouldn't know, but they certainly haven't been dwindling on PC which is one of the prime reasons why console transfers to PC won't happen - the servers simply couldn't cope with the extra population. There are plenty of other reasons, of course, almost certainly including contractual restrictions relating to poaching of accounts between the platform providers - quite apart from the cost of creating the software capability and hardware capacity.

ZOS will continue to develop the game all the while it remains popular and commercially viable, which it clearly still is despite all the prophecies of doom which have never let up since launch 9 years ago!

Dr_Con

Achievements and quest progression, probably not. If I had a dime for every person who came from console who has griffinheart but doesn't barswap or know mechs for a +1 clear I'd have a lot of dimes. Also no to inventory, including gold... so much botting has happened on console that they have ruined economies. Names, obviously not because people on PC would have them already.

Motifs and Stylepages I'm a bit iffy about but learned style pages should be allowed to be transferred, motifs probably not as they are character bound.

CP levels, stickerbook, and transmutes- sure. This should be enough to pick up where you left off.

Elsonso

Maddoghalo1 wrote: »

If ESO had serious plans to really continue this game into the future they would do this hands down. It’s the new standard. When I stopped playing game numbers were heavily dwindling and the world was constantly empty except for events or new releases.

Why would XBox want people moving off of XBox? Now, granted, if PC people were clamoring to move over to XBox, I am sure that XBox would be more than happy to allow that. PSN might even get on board with that. The reverse? Heh.

SkaiFaith

https://youtu.be/KWIGZiO8fDU

In this recent Nefas' video he comments a new interview to ESO Devs in which they hint at cross-progression MAYBE in the works, but saying we won't likely see cross-play.
I think even just cross-progression would already be a huge benefit.

Eradrann

I'd love to transfer from the EU server to the NA server!

Also, if I could get my beta monkey from the PC to console... (I originally missed the transfer)

Khrogo

Dr_Con wrote: »

Achievements and quest progression, probably not. If I had a dime for every person who came from console who has griffinheart but doesn't barswap or know mechs for a +1 clear I'd have a lot of dimes. Also no to inventory, including gold... so much botting has happened on console that they have ruined economies. Names, obviously not because people on PC would have them already.

Motifs and Stylepages I'm a bit iffy about but learned style pages should be allowed to be transferred, motifs probably not as they are character bound.

CP levels, stickerbook, and transmutes- sure. This should be enough to pick up where you left off.

I don’t quite understand what you’re saying about console players. Do you mean people that came from console that allegedly earned Gryphon Heart on PC? As someone who now plays on the Xbox and PC servers, I seem to encounter more clearly bought achievement titles on PC. Nothing like watching a Gryphon Heart run away with the fire in a nCR run. Lol.

I think you are right about the economy. The console and PC economies are vastly different. PC players have way more gold, and allowing them to transfer wealth to console would be destabilising. Also, the crown-to-gold exchange rate on console is 1:100. On PC, it is 1:2000. Selling crowns before a transfer would give PC players unreasonable liquidity. That said, I’m not sure many people would rush to transfer to console, but still.

drakhan2002_ESO

There is probably little incentive for them to do so other than the financial incentive of a *few* players wanting to transfter. I am sure that Sony and MS/Xbox get a cut of the profits of the sub and crown store purchases which may account for more money than the transfer option. Moreover, even though there was a transfer option when the consoles launched, I am sure there may be other technical issues going from console -> PC.

I don't really have a dog in the fight, but I just don't see it happening any time soon. Best to start a new account on PC and re-grind everything...it will probably be faster than waiting for a transfer option.