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Running around in PVP

LannStone
LannStone
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I'm mainly a long-time PVE player trying to learn PVP (CP Cyro), dying a lot.
It seems to me the main thing I need to learn is how to keep running around while still hitting the right action keys.
So, do any of you PC PVPers hit the auto run to keep moving so you don't have to hold down W-Shift or whatever?
It's not something I've seen addressed in any PVP guide.
Thanks
  • Lebkuchen
    Lebkuchen
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    You can jump around and try to stay behind your enemies, so they have a hard time hitting you. Especially when there is a lot of lag. You should hide behind objects (walls, trees, big rocks, friendly players...) to get out of your enemies line of sight from time to time, so they can't hit you. You should move out of siegeweapons, ulti dumps, plague infected NPCs and all the other deadly scenarios that will kill you very fast. But just running around with "auto run" will most likely not do any good for you.

    It will take some time to learn how to move in Cyrodiil. The right movement is a very important skill in PvP. Learning to die and not care about it is probably the most important skill if you want to have fun in PvP. A lot of people still can't do it after years of playing...
  • LannStone
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    Lebkuchen wrote: »
    Learning to die and not care about it is probably the most important skill if you want to have fun in PvP.
    I've got that part down - now I just think I'm in it for the AP for the transmute crystals, and it doesn't matter how many times I have to die to get there, lol.
    EDIT: But I gotta admit, I would like to get in a few kills like everybody else before I go down!
    So autorun is not gonna help, good to know.
    Thanks for the advice
    Edited by LannStone on January 23, 2023 6:41PM
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    If you have the disposable income and the willingness to learn, I'd recommend getting an MMO mouse. I use one and have all of my active abilities+bar swap bound to it, so the only time I have to remove my hands from the movement keys is popping a consumable. It lets you focus a lot more on your movement.

    Edit: also practice your speed hopping/bunny hopping. If you sprint, jump, and press block, you'll carry your momentum while in the air (usually your speed drops when jumping). If you have major expedition, you can cover a large distance all while being able to block+cast abilities. It will save your life more times than you can count, as you'll be able to cover a distance to an area of cover while popping a heal or rebuffing and blocking incoming damage.
    Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on January 23, 2023 6:49PM
  • LannStone
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    If you have the disposable income and the willingness to learn, I'd recommend getting an MMO mouse. I use one and have all of my active abilities+bar swap bound to it, so the only time I have to remove my hands from the movement keys is popping a consumable. It lets you focus a lot more on your movement.

    Doesn't that take quite a bit of dexterity to hit all the right buttons on the mouse?
  • LittlePinkDot
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    LannStone wrote: »
    I'm mainly a long-time PVE player trying to learn PVP (CP Cyro), dying a lot.
    It seems to me the main thing I need to learn is how to keep running around while still hitting the right action keys.
    So, do any of you PC PVPers hit the auto run to keep moving so you don't have to hold down W-Shift or whatever?
    It's not something I've seen addressed in any PVP guide.
    Thanks

    PS5 controller.

    I don't know why anybody would want to use a mouse and keyboard for this kind of game. The horror...
    Edited by LittlePinkDot on January 23, 2023 11:07PM
  • AdamLAD
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    Mouse and key players get eso on easy mode when it comes to movement and rotations.Try doing it on a controller.
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    LannStone wrote: »
    I'm mainly a long-time PVE player trying to learn PVP (CP Cyro), dying a lot.
    It seems to me the main thing I need to learn is how to keep running around while still hitting the right action keys.
    So, do any of you PC PVPers hit the auto run to keep moving so you don't have to hold down W-Shift or whatever?
    It's not something I've seen addressed in any PVP guide.
    Thanks

    PS5 controller.

    I don't know why anybody would want to use a mouse and keyboard for this kind of game. The horror...

    Better precision, more keybindings, ability to use an MMO mouse like stated earlier, and other things like that.

    Although if you do care for your hands and arms the controller is probably the better choice lol. I had to buy and use an MMO mouse so I stopped destroying my left hand while trying to move and cast skills at the same time, although getting light attacks and ability casts in is something I'm still trying to get the muscle memory down for with the new mouse.

    I put all the skills, ultimate, potion, mount and dismount, auto run, bar swap, and sheath/unsheath weapon bindings on the 12 button mouse <.<
    Edited by Vevvev on February 2, 2023 9:28PM
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Thecompton73
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    LannStone wrote: »
    I'm mainly a long-time PVE player trying to learn PVP (CP Cyro), dying a lot.
    It seems to me the main thing I need to learn is how to keep running around while still hitting the right action keys.
    So, do any of you PC PVPers hit the auto run to keep moving so you don't have to hold down W-Shift or whatever?
    It's not something I've seen addressed in any PVP guide.
    Thanks

    PS5 controller.

    I don't know why anybody would want to use a mouse and keyboard for this kind of game. The horror...

    I play with a gamepad on PC because my "game-station" is my front room 55" OLED TV and comfy recliner and a keyboard in my lap just doesn't work. But I have the setting for control type on automatic so I can grab my mouse to aim when on siege since the camera rotation isn't locked to the siege turn speed like it is with thumb-sticks. So I can imagine if your at a desk playing with a mouse & KB while actually fighting it also makes spinning the direction you face to track a target much quicker and more precise.
    But even if I had a desk I don't know if I could get used to how spread out all the keys are for different actions, I'd probably wind up hitting the wrong button most of the time in the middle of fights.
  • Kaysha
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    LannStone wrote: »
    I'm mainly a long-time PVE player trying to learn PVP (CP Cyro), dying a lot.
    It seems to me the main thing I need to learn is how to keep running around while still hitting the right action keys.
    So, do any of you PC PVPers hit the auto run to keep moving so you don't have to hold down W-Shift or whatever?
    It's not something I've seen addressed in any PVP guide.
    Thanks

    Having read your question and your reply to the given answers, I think you might need a more "basic" answer.

    Generally you have to be able to fight while moving without having to think about where you have to put your fingers.
    This takes some time and for most of us here it became so natural that nobody really talks about it. But here we go:

    I will try to explain my finger positioning, which is likely to be very similar to what everyone else is doing here.

    left hand:
    middle finger: W (move foreward) and S (move backward). nothing else. my middle finger is nearly constantly pressing one of these buttons
    little finger middle (not tip): strg and shift for crouching and sprint
    ring finger: A (strafe left), Q (drinks), 1 (action key 1), 2 (action key 2)
    index finger: D (strafe right), E (use), R (Ultimate, my key has a modified structure so I can feel it without looking), 3 (Action key 3), 4 (action key 4)
    thumb: space and alt

    right hand:
    index finger: left mouse button (light/heavy attack), wheel up (action key 5), wheel down (bash/interrupt)
    middle finger: right mouse button (block)
    thumb: mouse button 3 (roll dodge), mouse button 4 (weapon swap)

    By this, it is very easy to do animation canceling by bar swaping, because I do it with different hands while still being able to move completly unhindered. Or a vigor into dodge roll is solely done with the right hand (mouse wheel up+mouse button 3) while I´m still completely able to move and use other skills with the left hand.

    I don´t know if this was too basic, but I had the impression it might help. Good luck and keep up the good spirit in PvP!
  • Soraka
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    I second gaming mouse. I also have my roll dodge bound to v. Just what I've always done and works for me lol.
  • Janni
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    Honestly you don't need fancy hardware to help with this problem... UNLESS you specifically have a physical disability hindering you. It all comes down to muscle memory though. You can learn to move and play in any configuration given time.

    @LannStone I'd suggest looking up some streamers and youtube videos of popular ESO PvPers and watching for a bit. But pick one that plays in a way you like and focus on them. Then just watch and try to put yourself in the mental state that you were playing. Then when you go into the game, try to mimic some of the actions you see them take. After a few sessions of this you'll be amazed to find that you can actually start to develop a feel for the person you are watching. Like, you can actually FEEL when they get stunned and interrupted. You can tell exactly what is happening even without playing yourself and you'll start to predict their reactions to certain actions before you even see it. This will carry over to your gameplay. You really get a sort of ghost sensation, a real feeling, for when things are happening to your character. And you'll start to develop habits and memories on how to instantly react to them.
  • Udrath
    Udrath
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    Use sprint in a short burst right after gaining snare immunity if you need some distance or to avoid something. You can go 3 Swift too, it helps a lot. Biggest advice I can give you is to always switch targets to whoever is attacking you instead of running, and cc them and attack them back asap. Don’t get stuck playing Defense. It’s pretty easy to tell whose focusing you hard, even in big fights. Most of the time they’ll either Dodge away from you or go defensive after putting some pressure on them. Then moving around comes natural after a while.

    Also make sure to keybind Dodge roll and Break free and turn off the double click Dodge roll. I use shift to sprint but have break free and Dodge roll keybinded to my mouse buttons. Hope this helps
    Edited by Udrath on February 3, 2023 3:19AM
  • LannStone
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    Thanks for all the suggestions.
    I've been a mouse and keyboard player for half a century and will doubtless stick with that - with my tendency toward repetitive motion intolerance, I don't think my right thumb could tolerate the repetitive motion of all the little mouse buttons
    Lots of good advice given, thanks again
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    I only ever auto run when I am just going from keep to keep and being lazy, even then, most to of the time, I dont bother with it.

    You are correct that movement and positioning is very importing. Line of Sight is one of the most powerful defense tools in ESO. When you see one or two guys tower humping or whatever you call it while fighting a dozen pugs, line of sight is their best defense.
    LannStone wrote: »
    Thanks for all the suggestions.
    I've been a mouse and keyboard player for half a century and will doubtless stick with that - with my tendency toward repetitive motion intolerance, I don't think my right thumb could tolerate the repetitive motion of all the little mouse buttons
    Lots of good advice given, thanks again

    Also, there is no better tool for ESO than a good MMO mouse. Yes it takes some getting used to, but it objectively superior to any other setup from a control/function standpoint. My DPS jumped 50% in a week after I got one. Now admittedly, I got one right about the time I started putting effort into a rotation, so i wont say it was all the mouse, but it made the learning curve so much easier.

    If you are just breaking into PVP, I cant recommend a good MMO mouse strong enough. Razer makes some excellent ones. You really don't need to use all 12, but after a week, you wont know what you did without them.

    For example, I have 1-5 set to skills. That allows me to weave LA (LMB) and cast skills with just my right index finger and thumb. I use 6-7 for Dodge, Break Free. I use 8-12 for quickslots.

    My ring, middle, and index finger on my left hand is almost 100% devoted to movement while in combat, other than things like pressing E for quests, movement pretty much all they do. I do use my left index finger to cast my ultimate (I bind to R), and my left ring finger to press Q for consumables (can also do consumables from my mouse, just a habit to sometimes still hit q), but I have never found that to be detrimental to my ability to move around.

    I came from a 3 button (on the side) mouse that I used for shooters for years. It really wasn't that much of a learning curve. I have used a left hand gamepad/Mini keyboard for almost 20 years now. I also like have a few buttons easily available to my left thumb. I use it for Jump, Bar Swap, and a few other things as well. I can kill a target dummy with only using 4 fingers, index and thumb on each hand, certainly my fingers with the most dexterity.

    If you have the means, give it a try.
    Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on February 3, 2023 4:58PM
  • Aces-High-82
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    Biggest selling point for m/k is that you can macro basically anything.
  • Brrrofski
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    You may do it already in PvE, but something I find helpful in PvP is using the same buttons from the same things.

    So, wether I'm playing a DK or Templar, I always assign a heal on the same button. Spammable on same button. CC insane button. Mobility skill on same button etc.

    So if you jump around classes like I do, it's one thin less to worry about. Especially for healing. If you panic and press what you use to heal on one class, you'll always heal, regardless of what class you're playing.
    Edited by Brrrofski on February 17, 2023 8:04AM
  • MEBengalsFan2001
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    Jumping is done to avoid ground attacks along with having players lose LoS.

    Here are my thoughts on jumping, if you jump more than 2x in a row it should cost the same amount of stamina as blocking an attack. In addition, if you are in the air and an attack hits the player they should automatically be knocked down. Being in the air and being hit should not trigger immunity and if you have immunity it doesn't work in the air just like the damage on the ground does hurt you, meaning if you get hit again while in the air you are knocked down again. Being in the air like that should have it consequences like getting knocked down.
  • Caribou77
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    I like your suggestions BengalsFan. They make sense.

    However, I cannot begin to imagine this working properly given the quality standards of pvp in this game.
  • StaticWave
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    AdamLAD wrote: »
    Mouse and key players get eso on easy mode when it comes to movement and rotations.Try doing it on a controller.

    Everyone else on PC can do it, so the game becomes fast paced. I wouldn't call it easy mode, just different environment.
    Platform:
    PC NA

    Main:
    Static Wave - AD stamsorc

  • StaticWave
    StaticWave
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    Jumping is done to avoid ground attacks along with having players lose LoS.

    Here are my thoughts on jumping, if you jump more than 2x in a row it should cost the same amount of stamina as blocking an attack. In addition, if you are in the air and an attack hits the player they should automatically be knocked down. Being in the air and being hit should not trigger immunity and if you have immunity it doesn't work in the air just like the damage on the ground does hurt you, meaning if you get hit again while in the air you are knocked down again. Being in the air like that should have it consequences like getting knocked down.

    Jumping by itself isn't going to do much. It's jumping with high movement speed that's going to save you. You'd have to make it harder to stack movement speed for that to be effective.
    Platform:
    PC NA

    Main:
    Static Wave - AD stamsorc

  • MEBengalsFan2001
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    StaticWave wrote: »
    Jumping is done to avoid ground attacks along with having players lose LoS.

    Here are my thoughts on jumping, if you jump more than 2x in a row it should cost the same amount of stamina as blocking an attack. In addition, if you are in the air and an attack hits the player they should automatically be knocked down. Being in the air and being hit should not trigger immunity and if you have immunity it doesn't work in the air just like the damage on the ground does hurt you, meaning if you get hit again while in the air you are knocked down again. Being in the air like that should have it consequences like getting knocked down.

    Jumping by itself isn't going to do much. It's jumping with high movement speed that's going to save you. You'd have to make it harder to stack movement speed for that to be effective.

    I find it interesting that I had players fly by my Warden when I had her maxed out with speed and anything to make it so I could stay free and simply run circles around other players. Yet in PVP other players simply did that to me even with the following.

    My Warden is a wood elf that had the ring of the wild hunt, all 3 jewelry set to swift, Steed Mundus, and celerity.

    My gear sets were DFiord's Legacy and Jailbreaker. I used Birds of Prey to remove snares and what not.

    Even when I spirited enemies players easily caught up to me like I wasn't moving at all. I gave up worrying about speed after I tried out my Warden.

    The thing for me is jumping should have consequence in battle. I know when I fight someone I wouldn't be jumping around like a bunny rabbit because chances are I would end up on my back from an attack.

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