The Necromancer needs a complete overhaul.

Melzo

Six conflicting skills to each other do not give any advantage to the necromancer. A bunch of skills to reduce mana costs and increase its recovery, but there are no normal passives to increase damage. There are no stuns or movement slowdowns. There is no mobility. Necromancer is blastbones, ghost and direct healing. Even a bomb build can be done without harmony and synergy.

This class needs a significant overhaul of skills. Anything a necromancer can do, a warden can only do better.

Players playing without harmony do not use the first branch, except for blastbones. -_-

In the second branch, two morphs for two skills are useless. They are too weak. And the totem just do buggy. In the third branch, mass healing is much weaker than that of the templar, but at the same time you spend both mana and nearby corpses.

I don't know how you can treat the class so badly?? You have 6 classes in total, but you can't even make them playable. Funny and sad

CameraBeardThePirate

I disagree on the healing portion. Necromancer has a fantastic healing kit - certainly not the best but still great. I don't really think their healing needs much change, if at all.

However Necro does lack in a lot of other areas. Their class offense is almost non-existent. They don't have class access to Sorcery/Brutality nor do they have class access to Prophecy/Savagery. The spammable is pretty bad, with a far too slow projectile, buggy animation that makes weaving difficult, very underwhelming secondary effects, and decent but far from great damage. They're labeled as a DoT class, but only have 2 class DoTs, neither of which are "sticky" DoTs which hinders their viability in PvP and more mobile PvE fights. The Arcanist/Archer were recently stealth nerfed by 50%, and not given any meaningful changes to compensate. In addition, these skills have horrible targeting, sometimes not attacking an enemy at all despite being in range, and worst of all they count as direct damage, meaning they aren't buffed by the DoT passive and can be blocked. The Colossus ultimate, while strong, becomes less useful with each patch that adds a way to obtain Major Vulnerability. This isn't a huge issue as it is still a good ultimate, but should be noted because it takes away from the utility of having a necro in a group.

Their Bone Tyrant skill line is full of utility abilities that are extremely situational. The change to Ruinous Scythe was great, but it was shortly followed by other changes that hurt this skill line. The most glaring change was to Empowering Grasp - they tried to buff this skill by allowing it to buff Blastbones but then they deleted Empower from PvP and hindered its usefulness in PvE without giving this skill anything else in return. Besides the Empower issue (which is something that needs to be addressed game-wide as many abilities were made useless by this change), the skill is impossible to use as intended. It should give its pet buff either passively while slotted or when casted (regardless of whether you hit the pets or not). The other morph of Grave Grasp is utterly useless. Agony Totem is an alright ability with a decent synergy, but Necro needs an on demand stun in PvP, something that every other class in the game has. Remote Totem is much less useful.

In the healing tree, the biggest glaring issue imo was a recent bug introduced to the Animate Blastbones ult. This ult is already extremely difficult to use, as the tracking on the blastbones are non-existent and they cannot be commanded with the pet keybind. With the latest patch, the ultimate became even harder to use because it is no longer being counted as a corpse consumption ability as it should, which means unless you have a second corpse consumption ability on your bar, you won't be able to see the corpses you need to target with the ultimate. To be honest this morph of the ultimate could use a bit more love to make it more consistent, but when it works it's an extremely powerful offensive tool. The rest of this skill line doesn't really need much love, but there are a few heavily underutilized morphs. Blood Sacrifice and Braided Tether aren't used nearly as much as their counterparts for example.

Melzo

The totem works from 4 seconds.

Deaden Pain/ A useless skill that requires you to stand still for 15 seconds to get a damage reduction buff for 6 seconds..

Ghostly Embrace. useless morph. No one in any content anywhere, under any circumstances, this *** is not used. I have never seen.

Bone armor. the worst skill among all classes that give an analogous buff.


Enduring Undeath. Explain to me why the extension for 5 seconds?? I don't understand this. This especially applies to the fact that you can apply this skill for up to 30 seconds. Who in their right mind would stand still for 30 seconds?? And who can collect so many corpses??

expunge. A skill to troll players in Cyrodiil when you are building a tank build. Another skill that I do not understand why is it ?? The templar has a similar skill, but it still massively heals and gives synergy, and with your skill you only kill yourself. Any necromancer will understand that using this ability is the same as doing hara-kiri.

CameraBeardThePirate

Melzo wrote: »

The totem works from 4 seconds.

Deaden Pain/ A useless skill that requires you to stand still for 15 seconds to get a damage reduction buff for 6 seconds..

Ghostly Embrace. useless morph. No one in any content anywhere, under any circumstances, this *** is not used. I have never seen.

Bone armor. the worst skill among all classes that give an analogous buff.


Enduring Undeath. Explain to me why the extension for 5 seconds?? I don't understand this. This especially applies to the fact that you can apply this skill for up to 30 seconds. Who in their right mind would stand still for 30 seconds?? And who can collect so many corpses??

expunge. A skill to troll players in Cyrodiil when you are building a tank build. Another skill that I do not understand why is it ?? The templar has a similar skill, but it still massively heals and gives synergy, and with your skill you only kill yourself. Any necromancer will understand that using this ability is the same as doing hara-kiri.

Deaden Pain doesn't have any sort of requirement to stand still - not sure where you're getting that from. You suck up corpses and get the buff based on how many corpses you sucked up. It isn't as useful as the Potency morph with the nerf to major protection a while ago, and could maybe use a slight duration buff, but adding easy access to major protection is dangerous.

I have heard the first stun tick of Totem is currently bugged and not working - I haven't tested this myself as I never use the ability but if that's true it should be fixed. Regardless, necro needs an on demand stun anyways.

Bone armor is a little lacking compared to others, but the Bone Tyrant passives it gives (15% DoT resistance) plus the sustain from summoners or the defensive power of beckoning shouldn't be understated. I wouldn't argue a slight buff but the class has many more pressing issues than its defensive kit.

Enduring Undeath (and Renewing Undeath for that matter) is one of the most efficient healing skills in the game. In other words, for the magicka the ability costs it heals more than any other skill in the game. In PvE, especially more stationary fights, the 30 second duration is fantastic. In PvP, fights around flags or in tight areas are great for this ability - regardless of whether you're using the entire 30 sec duration or if you're using the purify morph. It really isn't that difficult to get that many corpses at all either. Blastbones gives a corpse every few seconds, intensive mender gives a corpse every 4 seconds, and your armor will ensure at least one is on the ground at pretty much all times. If you don't have at least two corpses for this ability you need to practice your corpse management.

You're just wrong about Expunge. Expunge is a fantastic skill giving you more sustain (even MORE sustain with the Modify morph). Hexproof removes more negative effects than any other purge in the game, and only for a measly 1800 or less health - a cost that is nothing when considering you should have at least a couple of HoTs going at all times. Think of it this way - if you have 6 dots each ticking for 500 dps, that's 3k dps you're taking. One cast of Hexproof is less damage per second than you'd take leaving the DoTs on you, and now you don't have any DoTs on you.

Editing to add: you also can't look at these skills in a vacuum. Necros healing/defensive kit is and will pretty much always be strong for two simple reasons: Resistant Flesh and the crit heal passive. Resistant Flesh is one of the best burst heals in the game, giving tons of Armor to whomever is healed and being juiced up immensely by the crit heal passive. Used in tandem with things like Renewing Undeath, Hexproof, and Mortal Coil can make necro really durable with very little effort. Necro really only needs help offensively - they need class access to one or both of the offensive buffs, an on demand stun, and their offensive class skills need quite a bit of love.

Melzo

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

The totem works from 4 seconds.

Deaden Pain/ A useless skill that requires you to stand still for 15 seconds to get a damage reduction buff for 6 seconds..

Ghostly Embrace. useless morph. No one in any content anywhere, under any circumstances, this *** is not used. I have never seen.

Bone armor. the worst skill among all classes that give an analogous buff.


Enduring Undeath. Explain to me why the extension for 5 seconds?? I don't understand this. This especially applies to the fact that you can apply this skill for up to 30 seconds. Who in their right mind would stand still for 30 seconds?? And who can collect so many corpses??

expunge. A skill to troll players in Cyrodiil when you are building a tank build. Another skill that I do not understand why is it ?? The templar has a similar skill, but it still massively heals and gives synergy, and with your skill you only kill yourself. Any necromancer will understand that using this ability is the same as doing hara-kiri.

Deaden Pain doesn't have any sort of requirement to stand still - not sure where you're getting that from. You suck up corpses and get the buff based on how many corpses you sucked up. It isn't as useful as the Potency morph with the nerf to major protection a while ago, and could maybe use a slight duration buff, but adding easy access to major protection is dangerous.

I have heard the first stun tick of Totem is currently bugged and not working - I haven't tested this myself as I never use the ability but if that's true it should be fixed. Regardless, necro needs an on demand stun anyways.

Bone armor is a little lacking compared to others, but the Bone Tyrant passives it gives (15% DoT resistance) plus the sustain from summoners or the defensive power of beckoning shouldn't be understated. I wouldn't argue a slight buff but the class has many more pressing issues than its defensive kit.

Enduring Undeath (and Renewing Undeath for that matter) is one of the most efficient healing skills in the game. In other words, for the magicka the ability costs it heals more than any other skill in the game. In PvE, especially more stationary fights, the 30 second duration is fantastic. In PvP, fights around flags or in tight areas are great for this ability - regardless of whether you're using the entire 30 sec duration or if you're using the purify morph. It really isn't that difficult to get that many corpses at all either. Blastbones gives a corpse every few seconds, intensive mender gives a corpse every 4 seconds, and your armor will ensure at least one is on the ground at pretty much all times. If you don't have at least two corpses for this ability you need to practice your corpse management.

You're just wrong about Expunge. Expunge is a fantastic skill giving you more sustain (even MORE sustain with the Modify morph). Hexproof removes more negative effects than any other purge in the game, and only for a measly 1800 or less health - a cost that is nothing when considering you should have at least a couple of HoTs going at all times. Think of it this way - if you have 6 dots each ticking for 500 dps, that's 3k dps you're taking. One cast of Hexproof is less damage per second than you'd take leaving the DoTs on you, and now you don't have any DoTs on you.

Editing to add: you also can't look at these skills in a vacuum. Necros healing/defensive kit is and will pretty much always be strong for two simple reasons: Resistant Flesh and the crit heal passive. Resistant Flesh is one of the best burst heals in the game, giving tons of Armor to whomever is healed and being juiced up immensely by the crit heal passive. Used in tandem with things like Renewing Undeath, Hexproof, and Mortal Coil can make necro really durable with very little effort. Necro really only needs help offensively - they need class access to one or both of the offensive buffs, an on demand stun, and their offensive class skills need quite a bit of love.

Deaden Pain doesn't require you to stand still but can you absorb at least 4 corpses?? how fast do you get so many corpses?? No one uses it like all fights are mobile. There are no necromancers standing still. This skill is simply worse than Resolving Vigor. I have not seen any build with this skill. You don't have the ability to buff at least 10 percent of the entire fight. I have tried many times to use it and in most cases I have only overlaid for 4 seconds. Moreover, all the corpses that you call in modern times disappear and you can calculate this for a maximum of 4-6 seconds every 12-15 seconds, and this is provided that you fight on the spot. In 90 percent of cases, this skill is useless, but even within these 5-10 percent, the Mortal Coil or Vigor skill will be more useful. Objectively, this is a mediocre skill. If he didn't give those measly 3% defense and ult buff, you could increase the healing and duration by 1 second. It's such a useless skill. He seems to be a jack of all trades, but in some particular area he lags behind. This is a major weakness of the skill. That's why no one uses.

Bone armor does nothing. You summon a ghost every 18 seconds. Does he need those 15 percent?? Skeleton mage just do not call. And blastbones already reduces itself by 50 percent. I don't care about those 100 mana. This skill could give a stun on demand but gives complete garbage.

Enduring Undeath. Seriously 5 corpses?? Are you going to collect 5 corpses from blastbones?? Heals rarely use blastbones and such necromancers don't use heals. Vicious circle. Standing under the door in Cyrodiil you can count on 1-2 corpses from a ghost or blastbones on a guard. Stand still and get healed for 30 seconds?? Are you laughing? Show at least one necromancer in pvp who was able to achieve this and at the same time it was useful. I can also use this skill after the bomb, but do you need it at this moment? I need 6 corpses for 30 seconds and the templar doesn't need to fulfill any requirements and with one click they get 30 seconds of mass healing. Tritely not a fair approach to class development. Two analogous skills only for a necromancer are mana costs and another condition that is not so easy to fulfill. And pve you can count on 5-10 seconds. Don't tell stories. Necromancers spam this skill instead of holding it and don't use blastbones that often....

expunge. I'm just pissing with boiling water from happiness. The best skill in the game ///. Some do, no doubt, but does it help? I, being a dk, will use my claws on you, and you will die from my skill and yours. Two dots??? Seriously? If he shot all 4 and got the resources, then okay, but 2? Templar removes 5 pillboxes and heals the area and grants synergy. A bunch of templars use it. But how many necromancers use expunge? Skills that you can only use 0.1% of the time are useless. The meaning of this skill is if it is used by only 10-20 people among all necromancers. It doesn't give you any advantage. Remove two pillboxes, they will impose on you more. The longer you press this skill, the more problems you accumulate. And in doing so, you take the slot. This skill will not replace any healing skill, which is why it is useless. I have been playing eso for about 4 years and have seen many different builds. Yes, the same expunge can be useful, but do you have free space on the panel??? And even if there is, can you take a skill that restores your health and not expunge?

CameraBeardThePirate

Melzo wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

The totem works from 4 seconds.

Deaden Pain/ A useless skill that requires you to stand still for 15 seconds to get a damage reduction buff for 6 seconds..

Ghostly Embrace. useless morph. No one in any content anywhere, under any circumstances, this *** is not used. I have never seen.

Bone armor. the worst skill among all classes that give an analogous buff.


Enduring Undeath. Explain to me why the extension for 5 seconds?? I don't understand this. This especially applies to the fact that you can apply this skill for up to 30 seconds. Who in their right mind would stand still for 30 seconds?? And who can collect so many corpses??

expunge. A skill to troll players in Cyrodiil when you are building a tank build. Another skill that I do not understand why is it ?? The templar has a similar skill, but it still massively heals and gives synergy, and with your skill you only kill yourself. Any necromancer will understand that using this ability is the same as doing hara-kiri.

Deaden Pain doesn't have any sort of requirement to stand still - not sure where you're getting that from. You suck up corpses and get the buff based on how many corpses you sucked up. It isn't as useful as the Potency morph with the nerf to major protection a while ago, and could maybe use a slight duration buff, but adding easy access to major protection is dangerous.

I have heard the first stun tick of Totem is currently bugged and not working - I haven't tested this myself as I never use the ability but if that's true it should be fixed. Regardless, necro needs an on demand stun anyways.

Bone armor is a little lacking compared to others, but the Bone Tyrant passives it gives (15% DoT resistance) plus the sustain from summoners or the defensive power of beckoning shouldn't be understated. I wouldn't argue a slight buff but the class has many more pressing issues than its defensive kit.

Enduring Undeath (and Renewing Undeath for that matter) is one of the most efficient healing skills in the game. In other words, for the magicka the ability costs it heals more than any other skill in the game. In PvE, especially more stationary fights, the 30 second duration is fantastic. In PvP, fights around flags or in tight areas are great for this ability - regardless of whether you're using the entire 30 sec duration or if you're using the purify morph. It really isn't that difficult to get that many corpses at all either. Blastbones gives a corpse every few seconds, intensive mender gives a corpse every 4 seconds, and your armor will ensure at least one is on the ground at pretty much all times. If you don't have at least two corpses for this ability you need to practice your corpse management.

You're just wrong about Expunge. Expunge is a fantastic skill giving you more sustain (even MORE sustain with the Modify morph). Hexproof removes more negative effects than any other purge in the game, and only for a measly 1800 or less health - a cost that is nothing when considering you should have at least a couple of HoTs going at all times. Think of it this way - if you have 6 dots each ticking for 500 dps, that's 3k dps you're taking. One cast of Hexproof is less damage per second than you'd take leaving the DoTs on you, and now you don't have any DoTs on you.

Editing to add: you also can't look at these skills in a vacuum. Necros healing/defensive kit is and will pretty much always be strong for two simple reasons: Resistant Flesh and the crit heal passive. Resistant Flesh is one of the best burst heals in the game, giving tons of Armor to whomever is healed and being juiced up immensely by the crit heal passive. Used in tandem with things like Renewing Undeath, Hexproof, and Mortal Coil can make necro really durable with very little effort. Necro really only needs help offensively - they need class access to one or both of the offensive buffs, an on demand stun, and their offensive class skills need quite a bit of love.

Deaden Pain doesn't require you to stand still but can you absorb at least 4 corpses?? how fast do you get so many corpses?? No one uses it like all fights are mobile. There are no necromancers standing still. This skill is simply worse than Resolving Vigor. I have not seen any build with this skill. You don't have the ability to buff at least 10 percent of the entire fight. I have tried many times to use it and in most cases I have only overlaid for 4 seconds. Moreover, all the corpses that you call in modern times disappear and you can calculate this for a maximum of 4-6 seconds every 12-15 seconds, and this is provided that you fight on the spot. In 90 percent of cases, this skill is useless, but even within these 5-10 percent, the Mortal Coil or Vigor skill will be more useful. Objectively, this is a mediocre skill. If he didn't give those measly 3% defense and ult buff, you could increase the healing and duration by 1 second. It's such a useless skill. He seems to be a jack of all trades, but in some particular area he lags behind. This is a major weakness of the skill. That's why no one uses.

Bone armor does nothing. You summon a ghost every 18 seconds. Does he need those 15 percent?? Skeleton mage just do not call. And blastbones already reduces itself by 50 percent. I don't care about those 100 mana. This skill could give a stun on demand but gives complete garbage.

Enduring Undeath. Seriously 5 corpses?? Are you going to collect 5 corpses from blastbones?? Heals rarely use blastbones and such necromancers don't use heals. Vicious circle. Standing under the door in Cyrodiil you can count on 1-2 corpses from a ghost or blastbones on a guard. Stand still and get healed for 30 seconds?? Are you laughing? Show at least one necromancer in pvp who was able to achieve this and at the same time it was useful. I can also use this skill after the bomb, but do you need it at this moment? I need 6 corpses for 30 seconds and the templar doesn't need to fulfill any requirements and with one click they get 30 seconds of mass healing. Tritely not a fair approach to class development. Two analogous skills only for a necromancer are mana costs and another condition that is not so easy to fulfill. And pve you can count on 5-10 seconds. Don't tell stories. Necromancers spam this skill instead of holding it and don't use blastbones that often....

expunge. I'm just pissing with boiling water from happiness. The best skill in the game ///. Some do, no doubt, but does it help? I, being a dk, will use my claws on you, and you will die from my skill and yours. Two dots??? Seriously? If he shot all 4 and got the resources, then okay, but 2? Templar removes 5 pillboxes and heals the area and grants synergy. A bunch of templars use it. But how many necromancers use expunge? Skills that you can only use 0.1% of the time are useless. The meaning of this skill is if it is used by only 10-20 people among all necromancers. It doesn't give you any advantage. Remove two pillboxes, they will impose on you more. The longer you press this skill, the more problems you accumulate. And in doing so, you take the slot. This skill will not replace any healing skill, which is why it is useless. I have been playing eso for about 4 years and have seen many different builds. Yes, the same expunge can be useful, but do you have free space on the panel??? And even if there is, can you take a skill that restores your health and not expunge?

Ok first of all relax because your spelling is starting to take a hit and I'm not even sure what you're trying to say in a lot of these sentences.

Deaden Pain is the inferior morph to Potency, but either way you're trying to compare the skill to a HoT when it should not be used as a HoT. Necrotic Potency paired with Intensive Mender is the highest amount of ult gen in the game. Neither Potency nor Deaden Pain are supposed to be as good of heals as Vigor or Coil because that's not their intended function - they are utility skills and not healing skills. The heal is just a nice bonus. Again, you don't have to fight on the spot to utilize this skill either, just suck up the corpses whenever you rebuff. If you're good at positioning you should easily get at least 3 corpses with it whenever you rebuff, even in mobile fights.

Like I said, Bone Armor is a little underwhelming but it really doesn't need to be insanely powerful. The Bone Tyrant passives alone are good and not every skill needs to be stronger than other class' counterparts.

For Enduring Undeath, you seem to be under the misconception that you need to consume 5 corpses to get the most use out of the ability, but the fact of the matter is that you don't. Even just 1 or 2 corpses for either morph still makes it one of the most efficient healing skills in the game for magicka:health healed. The big difference between Plar's big healing circle is that that circle is just the HoT+Synergy - Renewing Undeath is a burst heal, HoT, and purify all in one. Enduring Undeath is a ludicrously cheap Burst Heal and HoT for how much health it heals. It doesn't matter that you won't be standing in the circle 100% of the time, you will get use out of the HoT if you're positioning well. It is one of the best aoe heals for group healers in small group PvP.

Hexproof takes (edit)4 effects off of you, not 2. Expunge and Modify takes fewer effects but gives you near infinite sustain. If you're killing yourself with either ability, you're using them wrong. Kind of just a learn to play issue at that point.

Zekka

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hexproof takes 6 effects off of you, not 2. Expunge and Modify takes fewer effects but gives you near infinite sustain. If you're killing yourself with either ability, you're using them wrong. Kind of just a learn to play issue at that point.

?
Hexproof purges 4 effects, not 6. It's not a bad skill but it's a good example of what is wrong with necro skills, all it does is purge when templar's ritual is 5 effects purges + massive AoE HoT + triggers good passives (mending, light weaver, sacred ground) + free full purge for all your teammates. No templar goes without it while the only place you see a necro use Hexproof is Alik'r where they can afford the skill slot.

I agree with you though, necro needs help with its offense, not defense.

CameraBeardThePirate

Zekka wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hexproof takes 6 effects off of you, not 2. Expunge and Modify takes fewer effects but gives you near infinite sustain. If you're killing yourself with either ability, you're using them wrong. Kind of just a learn to play issue at that point.

?
Hexproof purges 4 effects, not 6. It's not a bad skill but it's a good example of what is wrong with necro skills, all it does is purge when templar's ritual is 5 effects purges + massive AoE HoT + triggers good passives (mending, light weaver, sacred ground) + free full purge for all your teammates. No templar goes without it while the only place you see a necro use Hexproof is Alik'r where they can afford the skill slot.

I agree with you though, necro needs help with its offense, not defense.

You're right on the 4 from hexproof. Even still, you're severely undervaluing the fact that it doesn't cost Magicka. It means both Mag and Stam tools can utilize it, as well as being able to combo it with other mag heals. Block casting Hexproof/Expunge with Resistant Flesh is an extremely strong defensive tool. It also doesn't "just purge" as it reduces the cost of all your abilities while slotted.

Also not fair to compare Expunge to Templar’s purge. The fair comparison would be Renewing Undeath, which is just as strong as it also provides a large burst heal.

LittlePinkDot

I'm enjoying my DD stam Necro.
Poison skull/poison injection/endless hail/acid spray/blast bones/
Barbed trap/Pestilent Colossus/rally/Unnerving boneyard
Gives me most of the DoTs buffs/debuffs I need. Just need to slot a weapon crit potion.

The only thing that bothers me is sustain.
It's too easy to run out of stamina, even wearing wretched vitality.

Zekka

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Even still, you're severely undervaluing the fact that it doesn't cost Magicka. It means both Mag and Stam tools can utilize it, as well as being able to combo it with other mag heals. Block casting Hexproof/Expunge with Resistant Flesh is an extremely strong defensive tool. It also doesn't "just purge" as it reduces the cost of all your abilities while slotted.

Yet most necros pass on it while no sane templar pass on Ritual, maybe it's not that strong?

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Also not fair to compare Expunge to Templar’s purge. The fair comparison would be Renewing Undeath, which is just as strong as it also provides a large burst heal.

It's not unfair, the main function which is stated first in the tooltips of Ritual and morphs and Expunge and morphs is purging.
While the Renewing Undeath morph main function is healing and gets the (conditional) purge as a secondary effect.

Melzo

It's strange to me that you tie the damage reduction from pillboxes to the skill that gives armor. All classes have passive skills and the necromancer is no exception. As if this passive is so cool that you can neglect the entire second skill line. This passive is good but other classes don't have it or even better? Reduced mana cost by 3 skills, two of which are used only once every 18 seconds and a blastbone which is already reduced to 1000 mana. 15 percent of 1000-2000 is 150-300 mana. This skill is not just the worst skill among all classes, it's just a disgrace. If I didn't need monster sets I would always go with Mighty Chudan.

CameraBeardThePirate

Melzo wrote: »

It's strange to me that you tie the damage reduction from pillboxes to the skill that gives armor. All classes have passive skills and the necromancer is no exception. As if this passive is so cool that you can neglect the entire second skill line. This passive is good but other classes don't have it or even better? Reduced mana cost by 3 skills, two of which are used only once every 18 seconds and a blastbone which is already reduced to 1000 mana. 15 percent of 1000-2000 is 150-300 mana. This skill is not just the worst skill among all classes, it's just a disgrace. If I didn't need monster sets I would always go with Mighty Chudan.

I tie in the damage reduction from the passives because if you drop Bone Armor you arent getting those passives - none of the other abilities will have anywhere near a 100% uptime. If you were to run Chudan you'd be missing out on the DoT damage reduction - and no, none of the other classes have a flat DoT reduction in their passives.

Again, I'm not saying Summoner's isn't underwhelming, but Necro is doing just fine defensively and really needs help offensively. I'd rather see developer resources focused there.

Melzo

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

It's strange to me that you tie the damage reduction from pillboxes to the skill that gives armor. All classes have passive skills and the necromancer is no exception. As if this passive is so cool that you can neglect the entire second skill line. This passive is good but other classes don't have it or even better? Reduced mana cost by 3 skills, two of which are used only once every 18 seconds and a blastbone which is already reduced to 1000 mana. 15 percent of 1000-2000 is 150-300 mana. This skill is not just the worst skill among all classes, it's just a disgrace. If I didn't need monster sets I would always go with Mighty Chudan.

I tie in the damage reduction from the passives because if you drop Bone Armor you arent getting those passives - none of the other abilities will have anywhere near a 100% uptime. If you were to run Chudan you'd be missing out on the DoT damage reduction - and no, none of the other classes have a flat DoT reduction in their passives.

Again, I'm not saying Summoner's isn't underwhelming, but Necro is doing just fine defensively and really needs help offensively. I'd rather see developer resources focused there.

Your answer would be relevant if there were no other skills in this thread, but they are. There are three skills that you can spam. And the fact that they are not taken means that they are *** and not skills. In the last patch I did an empowering grasp build, in this patch I did a scythe build. I have no problem accessing this passive. In addition to armor, you have as many as 4 skills and an ultimate. This passive also doesn't help much, given that dot damage is not the game's strong point. He was simply nerfed. I also don't see the point of you putting this passive on the pedestal of this skill line. I don’t even need this passive for nothing if the skill line is adequate and useful. And most importantly, this passive is far from the best in the game. Tritely go to another class and you will find cooler passives. And unlike the necromancer, they have more of them.

CameraBeardThePirate

Melzo wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

It's strange to me that you tie the damage reduction from pillboxes to the skill that gives armor. All classes have passive skills and the necromancer is no exception. As if this passive is so cool that you can neglect the entire second skill line. This passive is good but other classes don't have it or even better? Reduced mana cost by 3 skills, two of which are used only once every 18 seconds and a blastbone which is already reduced to 1000 mana. 15 percent of 1000-2000 is 150-300 mana. This skill is not just the worst skill among all classes, it's just a disgrace. If I didn't need monster sets I would always go with Mighty Chudan.

I tie in the damage reduction from the passives because if you drop Bone Armor you arent getting those passives - none of the other abilities will have anywhere near a 100% uptime. If you were to run Chudan you'd be missing out on the DoT damage reduction - and no, none of the other classes have a flat DoT reduction in their passives.

Again, I'm not saying Summoner's isn't underwhelming, but Necro is doing just fine defensively and really needs help offensively. I'd rather see developer resources focused there.

Your answer would be relevant if there were no other skills in this thread, but they are. There are three skills that you can spam. And the fact that they are not taken means that they are *** and not skills. In the last patch I did an empowering grasp build, in this patch I did a scythe build. I have no problem accessing this passive. In addition to armor, you have as many as 4 skills and an ultimate. This passive also doesn't help much, given that dot damage is not the game's strong point. He was simply nerfed. I also don't see the point of you putting this passive on the pedestal of this skill line. I don’t even need this passive for nothing if the skill line is adequate and useful. And most importantly, this passive is far from the best in the game. Tritely go to another class and you will find cooler passives. And unlike the necromancer, they have more of them.

I dont think you're understanding my point.

To get the DoT damage reduction (which is a phenomenal passive, especially in PvP), you need a Bone Tyrant ability with a duration - the only ability that will have a long enough uptime is the Bone Armor. Hence, if you want that passive, you need the Bone Armor. Empowering Grasp does not activate this passive (and I've already discussed the issues with this skill above). Hungry Scythe needs to be spammed to keep it up (Ruinous Scythe will not activate it at all). The only other ability that will give you a good uptime is Totem, and while Agony Totem provides a fantastic damage synergy for your teammates, it is far more practical to use the Armor to keep this passive up. You're also underestimating the impact of DoT damage - even with the nerfs, Proc DoTs were not touched. Things like the Master's DW and Maarselok are some of the strongest procs in the game right now, and many powerful ultimate abilities have powerful DoTs tied to them like Dawnbreaker.

Other Bone Tyrant abilities are still plenty useful. Ruinous Scythe was given a great buff recently, Hungry Scythe is used by PvE tanks, Necrotic Potency is an incredible tool for ult gen in both PvE and PvP. These abilities would also be even more useful if Necro had more bar space - something that could be achieved by giving their offensive abilities the tools/buffs they currently need to outsource to other skill lines. If their offensive kit was buffed, they'd be able to fit more of their utility skills/defensive kit on their bar.

Melzo

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

It's strange to me that you tie the damage reduction from pillboxes to the skill that gives armor. All classes have passive skills and the necromancer is no exception. As if this passive is so cool that you can neglect the entire second skill line. This passive is good but other classes don't have it or even better? Reduced mana cost by 3 skills, two of which are used only once every 18 seconds and a blastbone which is already reduced to 1000 mana. 15 percent of 1000-2000 is 150-300 mana. This skill is not just the worst skill among all classes, it's just a disgrace. If I didn't need monster sets I would always go with Mighty Chudan.

I tie in the damage reduction from the passives because if you drop Bone Armor you arent getting those passives - none of the other abilities will have anywhere near a 100% uptime. If you were to run Chudan you'd be missing out on the DoT damage reduction - and no, none of the other classes have a flat DoT reduction in their passives.

Again, I'm not saying Summoner's isn't underwhelming, but Necro is doing just fine defensively and really needs help offensively. I'd rather see developer resources focused there.

Your answer would be relevant if there were no other skills in this thread, but they are. There are three skills that you can spam. And the fact that they are not taken means that they are *** and not skills. In the last patch I did an empowering grasp build, in this patch I did a scythe build. I have no problem accessing this passive. In addition to armor, you have as many as 4 skills and an ultimate. This passive also doesn't help much, given that dot damage is not the game's strong point. He was simply nerfed. I also don't see the point of you putting this passive on the pedestal of this skill line. I don’t even need this passive for nothing if the skill line is adequate and useful. And most importantly, this passive is far from the best in the game. Tritely go to another class and you will find cooler passives. And unlike the necromancer, they have more of them.

I dont think you're understanding my point.

To get the DoT damage reduction (which is a phenomenal passive, especially in PvP), you need a Bone Tyrant ability with a duration - the only ability that will have a long enough uptime is the Bone Armor. Hence, if you want that passive, you need the Bone Armor. Empowering Grasp does not activate this passive (and I've already discussed the issues with this skill above). Hungry Scythe needs to be spammed to keep it up (Ruinous Scythe will not activate it at all). The only other ability that will give you a good uptime is Totem, and while Agony Totem provides a fantastic damage synergy for your teammates, it is far more practical to use the Armor to keep this passive up. You're also underestimating the impact of DoT damage - even with the nerfs, Proc DoTs were not touched. Things like the Master's DW and Maarselok are some of the strongest procs in the game right now, and many powerful ultimate abilities have powerful DoTs tied to them like Dawnbreaker.

Other Bone Tyrant abilities are still plenty useful. Ruinous Scythe was given a great buff recently, Hungry Scythe is used by PvE tanks, Necrotic Potency is an incredible tool for ult gen in both PvE and PvP. These abilities would also be even more useful if Necro had more bar space - something that could be achieved by giving their offensive abilities the tools/buffs they currently need to outsource to other skill lines. If their offensive kit was buffed, they'd be able to fit more of their utility skills/defensive kit on their bar.

You put this passive on a pedestal and didn't say a word about his other passives. Yes, this passive is useful, but other classes don't have passives?? Trite, from the sorcerer you can get an 8% bonus to maximum health. But he has an adequate skill that gives the armor speed and damage. And the necromancer has a ridiculous cost reduction bonus for three skills, two of which have a duration of 18 seconds. I think that most necromancers will be happy to get rid of this passive, as long as they give normal skills. All classes have similar passive skills. For example, a bonus to healing for a dk or 8 to health for a sorcerer. Yes, everyone has such passives. This does not justify the fact that the totem does not work and the grip is useless, the skill that gives armor does not give anything else. Are you trying to justify with your 15 percent that half of the skill trees are useless??

Nihilr

Stamina:
Necromancer should be the class with most disease damage morphs, because you know: death.

Magicka:
Necromancer should use magic damage and/or frost damage, not fire damage. I'm kinda split on the shock damage, because Frankenstein's monster.

Healing:
At least one of the healing should be health-cost, because blood-sacrifices.

That is all.

Xarc

totem must be reworked
grasp too.

Zekka

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Necromancer

• Grave Lord
  • Boneyard
    Graverobber (morph): Reduced the damage of this synergy by approximately 47% to ensure it is of similar power to other synergies of its ilk, such as Conduit or Combustion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIYGNf-PTNw

Don't get me wrong, harmony removed from the game is a good thing but necro really needed something in compensation as non harmony necro is simply abysmal.

Rex-Umbra

Necro been getting nerfed every update while the classes it competes with get buffs so unfair.

yadibroz

He need a skull companion

Perashim

I agree. I really wish they would overhaul all 3 skill lines.

Imo, the Necromancer needs more undead raising skills, and blastbones to be replaced with something else (Including the Morph for Reanimation). Something actually useful.

CameraBeardThePirate

Perashim wrote: »

I agree. I really wish they would overhaul all 3 skill lines.

Imo, the Necromancer needs more undead raising skills, and blastbones to be replaced with something else (Including the Morph for Reanimation). Something actually useful.

Hard disagree on the last part. Stalking Blastbones, even with the target weirdness, is still one of the best delayed burst abilities.

I think both morphs just need a little boost given the tracking limitations (since I doubt they can fix these given how much they've tried).

Perashim

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

I agree. I really wish they would overhaul all 3 skill lines.

Imo, the Necromancer needs more undead raising skills, and blastbones to be replaced with something else (Including the Morph for Reanimation). Something actually useful.

Hard disagree on the last part. Stalking Blastbones, even with the target weirdness, is still one of the best delayed burst abilities.

I think both morphs just need a little boost given the tracking limitations (since I doubt they can fix these given how much they've tried).

Doesn't Stalking Blastbones not really get any benefit from it's increased damage per second chasing since it jumps at the target?

Perashim

I would love it if one of the skills (maybe in Bone Tyrant) was replaced with summoning a skeletal warrior to "tank" for a short amount of time, then swap Animate Blastbones to Animate Dead and have it summon one skeletal mage/archer, one skeletal warrior, and one spirit mender. That way for a short amount of time you could potentially have double the usual undead active and actually feel like a necromancer.

The stamina morph for the skeletal warrior could be a zombie or something that deals disease damage.

CameraBeardThePirate

Perashim wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

I agree. I really wish they would overhaul all 3 skill lines.

Imo, the Necromancer needs more undead raising skills, and blastbones to be replaced with something else (Including the Morph for Reanimation). Something actually useful.

Hard disagree on the last part. Stalking Blastbones, even with the target weirdness, is still one of the best delayed burst abilities.

I think both morphs just need a little boost given the tracking limitations (since I doubt they can fix these given how much they've tried).

Doesn't Stalking Blastbones not really get any benefit from it's increased damage per second chasing since it jumps at the target?

This is a misconception. It gets at minimum a 10% damage buff to the tooltip, as the timer starts as soon as the ability casts (i.e., even the blastbones climbing out of the ground counts as time spent chasing the target).

In practice, you actually see this buff gained a LOT, especially in PvP. In PvP you will frequently get 30-50% boosted blastbones because of how the tracking works. It allows Stalking Blastbones to hit MUCH harder than Blighted, and is the only saving grace of the class in PvP.

CameraBeardThePirate

Perashim wrote: »

I would love it if one of the skills (maybe in Bone Tyrant) was replaced with summoning a skeletal warrior to "tank" for a short amount of time, then swap Animate Blastbones to Animate Dead and have it summon one skeletal mage/archer, one skeletal warrior, and one spirit mender. That way for a short amount of time you could potentially have double the usual undead active and actually feel like a necromancer.

The stamina morph for the skeletal warrior could be a zombie or something that deals disease damage.

I also heavily disagree here. Animate Blastbones has the potential to be a really powerful and really fun Ultimate as is. When it works, it is the highest damage burst ultimate in the game, capable of wiping entire groups in an instant. The issue with it is that the blastbones can't be commanded and pick targets at random. If they made the targeting on this ultimate more consistent, this ultimate would be on every necromancer's bar in PvP

Perashim

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

I would love it if one of the skills (maybe in Bone Tyrant) was replaced with summoning a skeletal warrior to "tank" for a short amount of time, then swap Animate Blastbones to Animate Dead and have it summon one skeletal mage/archer, one skeletal warrior, and one spirit mender. That way for a short amount of time you could potentially have double the usual undead active and actually feel like a necromancer.

The stamina morph for the skeletal warrior could be a zombie or something that deals disease damage.

I also heavily disagree here. Animate Blastbones has the potential to be a really powerful and really fun Ultimate as is. When it works, it is the highest damage burst ultimate in the game, capable of wiping entire groups in an instant. The issue with it is that the blastbones can't be commanded and pick targets at random. If they made the targeting on this ultimate more consistent, this ultimate would be on every necromancer's bar in PvP

But what about replacing one of the Bone Tyrant skills with a summonable skeletal/zombie warrior? Something like replacing the Bone Totem.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

I agree. I really wish they would overhaul all 3 skill lines.

Imo, the Necromancer needs more undead raising skills, and blastbones to be replaced with something else (Including the Morph for Reanimation). Something actually useful.

Hard disagree on the last part. Stalking Blastbones, even with the target weirdness, is still one of the best delayed burst abilities.

I think both morphs just need a little boost given the tracking limitations (since I doubt they can fix these given how much they've tried).

Doesn't Stalking Blastbones not really get any benefit from it's increased damage per second chasing since it jumps at the target?

This is a misconception. It gets at minimum a 10% damage buff to the tooltip, as the timer starts as soon as the ability casts (i.e., even the blastbones climbing out of the ground counts as time spent chasing the target).

In practice, you actually see this buff gained a LOT, especially in PvP. In PvP you will frequently get 30-50% boosted blastbones because of how the tracking works. It allows Stalking Blastbones to hit MUCH harder than Blighted, and is the only saving grace of the class in PvP.

Hmm. I thought that the boost didn't start until the Blastbones was fully animated. That makes more sense on why they haven't changed it now. I still feel a 10%-20% boost at most could use a bit of work, but if its pathfinding in PvP is that bad to where it gets a boost that high: Probably shouldn't touch it then.

CameraBeardThePirate

Perashim wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

I would love it if one of the skills (maybe in Bone Tyrant) was replaced with summoning a skeletal warrior to "tank" for a short amount of time, then swap Animate Blastbones to Animate Dead and have it summon one skeletal mage/archer, one skeletal warrior, and one spirit mender. That way for a short amount of time you could potentially have double the usual undead active and actually feel like a necromancer.

The stamina morph for the skeletal warrior could be a zombie or something that deals disease damage.

I also heavily disagree here. Animate Blastbones has the potential to be a really powerful and really fun Ultimate as is. When it works, it is the highest damage burst ultimate in the game, capable of wiping entire groups in an instant. The issue with it is that the blastbones can't be commanded and pick targets at random. If they made the targeting on this ultimate more consistent, this ultimate would be on every necromancer's bar in PvP

But what about replacing one of the Bone Tyrant skills with a summonable skeletal/zombie warrior? Something like replacing the Bone Totem.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Perashim wrote: »

I agree. I really wish they would overhaul all 3 skill lines.

Imo, the Necromancer needs more undead raising skills, and blastbones to be replaced with something else (Including the Morph for Reanimation). Something actually useful.

Hard disagree on the last part. Stalking Blastbones, even with the target weirdness, is still one of the best delayed burst abilities.

I think both morphs just need a little boost given the tracking limitations (since I doubt they can fix these given how much they've tried).

Doesn't Stalking Blastbones not really get any benefit from it's increased damage per second chasing since it jumps at the target?

This is a misconception. It gets at minimum a 10% damage buff to the tooltip, as the timer starts as soon as the ability casts (i.e., even the blastbones climbing out of the ground counts as time spent chasing the target).

In practice, you actually see this buff gained a LOT, especially in PvP. In PvP you will frequently get 30-50% boosted blastbones because of how the tracking works. It allows Stalking Blastbones to hit MUCH harder than Blighted, and is the only saving grace of the class in PvP.

Hmm. I thought that the boost didn't start until the Blastbones was fully animated. That makes more sense on why they haven't changed it now. I still feel a 10%-20% boost at most could use a bit of work, but if its pathfinding in PvP is that bad to where it gets a boost that high: Probably shouldn't touch it then.

I wouldn't be against it, but honestly with how terrible the pet targeting is on Arcanist, Archer, and Blastbones I'd rather them incorporate damage in the form of actual sticky DoTs that the class can use on mobile targets, and maybe have that sticky dot have some sort of lifesteal/mitigation for tanks