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Eat this, drink that. ESO provision thoughts and a table with stat densities
f047ys3v3n
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As with most decisions in ESO, food balancing has been done at many times, presumably by many people, and with an eye towards the specific issues of that time and with little or no systematic overarching plan. Years later now, and especially with the added changes of hybridization (and if your not running a hybrid build your not paying attention) this means a lot of those decisions no longer make much sense. They also mislead a lot of folks because you see a provision that is purple or gold and has things you need and think that must be better than the blue one that has things you need. This would make sense, but is not always so. In this case, it probably doesn’t make sense. You are very likely consuming the wrong provision.
I frankly couldn’t figure it all out without a spread sheet because of what a mess they have made all their balance now and the fact they never had a cogent plan when it comes to provisions. Here is the spreadsheet though. It lists what each food gives you at max level and also the stat density that represents in standard set piece bonuses. I have also given a second stat density column with health regen removed as that is likely a bonus with near zero value unless you are one of those fairly unusual regen tank builds. I have also added dollar signs if it takes a rare alchemy ingredient and double signs if it takes perfect roe.
Of course, I can’t really help you make your decision beyond this as what your build needs may be quite different from another. This is especially true in the post-hybridization wildly unbalanced state the game is currently in. Do pay attention to the density values though as it is pretty easy to loose a couple full set piece equivalents of value by running something that looks like it should be good but has been nerfed to the basement such as the very attractive mag and stam 3-way drinks which have an abysmal 7.6 stat density value.
Some general observations:
1) Purple and gold designations are meaningless. They do not correlate 100% with either food duration (the blue leveling foods are also long duration) or stat density (the attractive looking 3-way options for mag and stam are actually super weak). Color is supposed to be the designator helping casual players make good decisions but it’s just misleading here. I would bet ZOS still thinks they need to nerf Witchmothers because I would bet their metrics tell them folks are still using it. They are using it because you are misleading them, not because it is good. It is not.
2) It’s better, I mean a lot better, to not need regen as ZOS will take you to the stat woodshed if you try to get some from provisions. Right now builds differ hugely on their sustain. Pure mag and stam builds are far from sustaining and hybrids, especially on the DK and Necro, are effectively infinite sustain. Regen is quite costly in terms of stat density to get with provisions. This is partially because base drinks were made initially lower in stat density but has been exacerbated by ZOS throwing the nerf hammer at most of the more attractive options containing both resources and sustain. If anything, food balance is just exacerbating other imbalances in this regard today. It is simply super expensive to add sustain to a build either yourself or though group buffs with the way balance is right now so take advantage of those builds that don’t need any.
3) Don’t overlook the two leveling foods from Wrothgar. These guys won’t give you max dps for a raid build but they are the only resource + regen provisions with full base provision stat density. You are actually getting full blue food health value and blue drink mag or stam value from these. They are great provisions for PVP and I have always liked them best for leveling new toons as they scale up with the level of the toon the later DLC and holiday recipes do. Because they have full stat density, these are also about the only foods you can swap out with others to change your build in the event a group has garbage buffs. EG, you can normally run a base blue food for + health and + stam and if the group has garbage buffs you can take a dps hit for sustain, switch to Orzorga Tripe and keep the right amount of health and a good stat density.
4) We have enough foods for build flexibility but we don’t have any without huge fluxuations on stat density. If a purple food meant say a stat density of 8 and you could mix and match ingredients to chose where you were in terms of resources and regen in a way more similar to the alchemy system that would be amazing. Certainly we have enough bloody ingredients for it. Of course, it’s not that way, there are stock recipes, almost all are redundant, and deviate from resources to regen and you usually give up at least a set piece in stat density and probably two. Not much flexibility and very uninspiring choices.
5) Stam parse food is a half a stat bonus better than mag. That’s quite a big difference and this is interesting given the 3-ways and blue bases are the same. Don’t give me any line about it being a food instead of a drink either. That is also true of the stam leveling food and it’s identical to the magica drink one.
6) There is not a stam equivalent to Artaeum fish. Of course, you get a grand total of .018 more stat bonus with it than with a base blue food despite it costing a kings ransom but it is at least an interesting fact. Incidentally, both the mag and stam 2-way gold foods have been nerfed to give significantly less buff density than a base blue food despite buffing the same resources. There now gimmick RP foods for vamps and werewolves.
7) For some reason holiday recipes that do exactly what base ones do are weaker. EG Witch PP is more than a stat bonus behind Pinot Noir. Both purple, both drinks, same buffs, just a bunch weaker in all ways. Totally without reason.
8) Don’t forget that you get 36% more stat density from the 3-way hakeijo enchant than from straight resource enchants. You are generally greatly rewarded when getting all three stats at once from either food or enchants. Of course, it is also best to remember that only one of those stats is a multiplier for your damage. You may be using both mag and stam resources but your damage only actually scales from one.
9) When ZOS nerfs hybrid sustain as they run around chasing their tail, don’t forget Jewels gives you a stat density of 8.79 with Health, mag regen and stam regen. Not a bad number for a food with regen in it.
Hope this helps you guys make better choices in the maze of ZOS balancing.
Edited by f047ys3v3n on January 10, 2023 10:14PM I frankly couldn’t figure it all out without a spread sheet because of what a mess they have made all their balance now and the fact they never had a cogent plan when it comes to provisions. Here is the spreadsheet though. It lists what each food gives you at max level and also the stat density that represents in standard set piece bonuses. I have also given a second stat density column with health regen removed as that is likely a bonus with near zero value unless you are one of those fairly unusual regen tank builds. I have also added dollar signs if it takes a rare alchemy ingredient and double signs if it takes perfect roe.
Of course, I can’t really help you make your decision beyond this as what your build needs may be quite different from another. This is especially true in the post-hybridization wildly unbalanced state the game is currently in. Do pay attention to the density values though as it is pretty easy to loose a couple full set piece equivalents of value by running something that looks like it should be good but has been nerfed to the basement such as the very attractive mag and stam 3-way drinks which have an abysmal 7.6 stat density value.
Some general observations:
1) Purple and gold designations are meaningless. They do not correlate 100% with either food duration (the blue leveling foods are also long duration) or stat density (the attractive looking 3-way options for mag and stam are actually super weak). Color is supposed to be the designator helping casual players make good decisions but it’s just misleading here. I would bet ZOS still thinks they need to nerf Witchmothers because I would bet their metrics tell them folks are still using it. They are using it because you are misleading them, not because it is good. It is not.
2) It’s better, I mean a lot better, to not need regen as ZOS will take you to the stat woodshed if you try to get some from provisions. Right now builds differ hugely on their sustain. Pure mag and stam builds are far from sustaining and hybrids, especially on the DK and Necro, are effectively infinite sustain. Regen is quite costly in terms of stat density to get with provisions. This is partially because base drinks were made initially lower in stat density but has been exacerbated by ZOS throwing the nerf hammer at most of the more attractive options containing both resources and sustain. If anything, food balance is just exacerbating other imbalances in this regard today. It is simply super expensive to add sustain to a build either yourself or though group buffs with the way balance is right now so take advantage of those builds that don’t need any.
3) Don’t overlook the two leveling foods from Wrothgar. These guys won’t give you max dps for a raid build but they are the only resource + regen provisions with full base provision stat density. You are actually getting full blue food health value and blue drink mag or stam value from these. They are great provisions for PVP and I have always liked them best for leveling new toons as they scale up with the level of the toon the later DLC and holiday recipes do. Because they have full stat density, these are also about the only foods you can swap out with others to change your build in the event a group has garbage buffs. EG, you can normally run a base blue food for + health and + stam and if the group has garbage buffs you can take a dps hit for sustain, switch to Orzorga Tripe and keep the right amount of health and a good stat density.
4) We have enough foods for build flexibility but we don’t have any without huge fluxuations on stat density. If a purple food meant say a stat density of 8 and you could mix and match ingredients to chose where you were in terms of resources and regen in a way more similar to the alchemy system that would be amazing. Certainly we have enough bloody ingredients for it. Of course, it’s not that way, there are stock recipes, almost all are redundant, and deviate from resources to regen and you usually give up at least a set piece in stat density and probably two. Not much flexibility and very uninspiring choices.
5) Stam parse food is a half a stat bonus better than mag. That’s quite a big difference and this is interesting given the 3-ways and blue bases are the same. Don’t give me any line about it being a food instead of a drink either. That is also true of the stam leveling food and it’s identical to the magica drink one.
6) There is not a stam equivalent to Artaeum fish. Of course, you get a grand total of .018 more stat bonus with it than with a base blue food despite it costing a kings ransom but it is at least an interesting fact. Incidentally, both the mag and stam 2-way gold foods have been nerfed to give significantly less buff density than a base blue food despite buffing the same resources. There now gimmick RP foods for vamps and werewolves.
7) For some reason holiday recipes that do exactly what base ones do are weaker. EG Witch PP is more than a stat bonus behind Pinot Noir. Both purple, both drinks, same buffs, just a bunch weaker in all ways. Totally without reason.
8) Don’t forget that you get 36% more stat density from the 3-way hakeijo enchant than from straight resource enchants. You are generally greatly rewarded when getting all three stats at once from either food or enchants. Of course, it is also best to remember that only one of those stats is a multiplier for your damage. You may be using both mag and stam resources but your damage only actually scales from one.
9) When ZOS nerfs hybrid sustain as they run around chasing their tail, don’t forget Jewels gives you a stat density of 8.79 with Health, mag regen and stam regen. Not a bad number for a food with regen in it.
Hope this helps you guys make better choices in the maze of ZOS balancing.
I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.
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Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's also worth pointing out that with the changes that came with hybrid builds people are running max mag and stam regen or max stam and mag regen but we have no equivalent for witch mother or dubious (max health, max mag, stam regen or max health, max stam, mag regen)0 -
Diatonic✭✭Plenty to chew on here. Thank you so much for putting the effort in. Hopefully ZOS can borrow it as a basis to spice things up!1
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Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Artaeum Broth should have 3080 for stam. Typo? Would it affect the stats? Would be surprised if it did. Tried it, didn't feel like an improvement over Ozorga's tripe trifle pocket.
Useful analysis tho. Tnx for putting it together.Edited by Muizer on January 10, 2023 11:25AMPlease stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!0 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Artaeum Broth should have 3080 for stam. Typo? Would it affect the stats? Would be surprised if it did. Tried it, didn't feel like an improvement over Ozorga's tripe trifle pocket.
Useful analysis tho. Tnx for putting it together.
Yea, typo. Thanks for the catch, it absolutely matters. Means that stam favoring builds have both the better parse food and a bit better 3-way option as well. Your still better off going with one of the hybrid builds that needs no resources added but this is an option that does matter.It's also worth pointing out that with the changes that came with hybrid builds people are running max mag and stam regen or max stam and mag regen but we have no equivalent for witch mother or dubious (max health, max mag, stam regen or max health, max stam, mag regen)
I spitballed that some on the pts with a +stam / mag regen food. Stam is undoubtedly the better resource to be max in as you will get a set bonus from perfect rele that your stuck with either way as it's the best dps set. You basically waste that buff if your max resources are mag. In a maximized group environment your also better off in medium armor because there is more you can do about being over crit damage cap through the champ point system (a med problem) than being over pen cap (a light problem.) Of course being heavily medium can lead you to run short on mag regen leading to you looking for regen in your food. For what it is worth, the split +stam / mag regen has the same low stat density as the mag parse food and not the significantly better stat density of the stam parse food.I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.0 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Citrus Filet is one of the best food buffs imo, but the perfect roe makes it not the perfect recipe >_<1
