Let's Talk About War Song

Personofsecrets

I'm just giving a play by play to bring to light how incredibly problematic War Song is from a gameplay perspective. As we get to that, I should also bring up my assumptions. My assumption with any games that test skill is that dumb luck should be minimized. A meme coming out of Hearthstone was that dealing with chances is a form of skill too and it may be. There are many forms of skill and we could have competitions to judge them. Who can open a letter the fastest without ripping an envelope with just their bare hands? Who can pull start the old lawn mower with bad oil and questionable spark plugs in the fewest number of tries? Who can win the most games of Rock Paper Scisors? Hopefully you get the picture by now. It's that testing skill with minimal chance is a superior form of testing skill compared to testing skill with relatively more chance. Adding more chances causes one to descend into the gritty world of all of that other "skill" testing that I just mentioned. Okay, maybe you can run to the mailbox faster than everyone else in the neighborhood, but who cares? And who cares if you lose when you get unlucky or win when you get lucky?

So onto War Song. I've had these games alot where, for starters, war song diminishes the value of the extra gold gain by second player. Because of War song, the waters are mudied with regards to starting the game with a small advantage as second player to help cancel out the advantage that first player has via their first pick. Maybe first player has the first pick, but second player should get the first chance at a more expensive play if it is available. War song prevents that.

War song also screws up crucial turns for the rest of the game when one is struggling to get a small advantage. In my recent game, I purchased Scratch to match my opponents Scratch. We both started with War Song in our opening hand. For them, it didn't end up mattering, but I was prevented from also making a writ of coin and turning that extra gold as second player into something real.

This is where things get interesting. My opponent, who I believe I beat around 80% of the time, then made what I consider to be a mistake by purchasing a power generating card in the form of Deepwoods Ritual. I consider this move to be a mistake because Blackfeather Knight is also in the tavern and by purchasing an additional card, they lower their chances of being able to purchase Blackfeather Knight by alot.

Neither one of us is able to capitalize on our 3rd turn because neither one of us combos our scratch. And when I do draw the writ of coin that I made on my second turn, it is unfortunately in a hand with, you guessed it, War Song. So I'm still unable to develop my cards in the way that I would like on my fourth turn. On their fifth turn, the opponent finally combos their scratch and that is essentially where they won the game.

If it hadn't been for War Song's power generation messing up several of my turns, then I probably would go on to win the game. And while I'm not entitled to win a game, I think that the person making better decisions, like not picking up power generators in a gold race, shouldn't be able to lose a game because of such dumb luck like this. While card games will always have an aspect of dumb luck, it should be minimized and there are few better places to start than with a loathsome single power generating card that ends up in way more games than is enjoyable because of Red Eagle being a compulsive pick for many players.

Meji

And then you get a game where you don't pick up War Song in favour of a economy card, only to open up another War Song then watch your opponent combo the War Songs 3 times back to back.

It's both dangerous card and poor card if it appears early in a match.

spartaxoxo

Meji wrote: »

And then you get a game where you don't pick up War Song in favour of a economy card, only to open up another War Song then watch your opponent combo the War Songs 3 times back to back.

It's both dangerous card and poor card if it appears early in a match.

War song is this card



I think you may be thinking of Midnight Raid

Meji

Oh yeah wow derp. It's 3:34am, you'll have to excuse me.

Yeah that card is extremely problematic and I will writ of coin it 99% of the time unless I need to wrestle Ansei Hunding Patron

Meji

In saying that picking up Hunding and Pelin to mitigate Player 1 picking Grand Larceny/Pounce and Profit their first turn is a viable move. Other than that I absolutely dislike the starting power cards.

Personofsecrets

Meji wrote: »

In saying that picking up Hunding and Pelin to mitigate Player 1 picking Grand Larceny/Pounce and Profit their first turn is a viable move. Other than that I absolutely dislike the starting power cards.

I've done just that a number of times. One of those games, you still even got Pounce first turn! Unfortunately, I really don't like using those patrons even though they do counter that specific first pick...

Meji

I do agree, those power starts are awful most of the time. Even denying someone Pounce and Profit and they still get 5 coins on turn one just hurts haha

Personofsecrets

Meji wrote: »

I do agree, those power starts are awful most of the time. Even denying someone Pounce and Profit and they still get 5 coins on turn one just hurts haha

Especially when their next play, as enabled by pounce, is buying Marketplace.

Necrotech_Master

ive sometimes had matches where patrons included both pelin and reach, which both have starter cards with +power instead of +coin

against npcs they refuse to convert these cards (or any of the starter cards) to writ of coin which significantly hampers their economy, i usually try to convert them asap unless im able to buy a really good card from the tavern lol

rbfrgsp

The contest starts as soon as the first player picks their first deck. So if I don't want to get annoyed by a power starter card, I'll often go Hunding so that at least it's possible to convert two of them into one coin. The Hunding starter itself giving you the versatility to choose power or coin dependant on how favourably the cards have fallen. It's irritating, sure. But it's a fun kind of irritating - it keeps the game unpredictable.

Grandma

if pelin isnt in play whats the difference? if there's pelin and warsong then yeah its an issue. you could also just writ warsong turn 1 in that situation. sucks but prevents tbe situation you mentioned past turn 2.

Personofsecrets

Grandma wrote: »

if pelin isnt in play whats the difference? if there's pelin and warsong then yeah its an issue. you could also just writ warsong turn 1 in that situation. sucks but prevents tbe situation you mentioned past turn 2.

Yes, I should have turned the war song into a writ turn 1, by the same effect given the opponent their second scratch, and virtually lost for that reason alone rather than hope that I can pickup the blackfeather knight on my third turn and possibly win through Crow card superiority.

WitchyKiki

Would you suggest turning War Song into a writ of coin as soon as possible?

Personofsecrets

WitchyKiki wrote: »

Would you suggest turning War Song into a writ of coin as soon as possible?

Generally speaking, yes. When a power card shows up, a player just needs to consistently be able to buy it. That single power and combo potential can add up sometimes, I guess, but being able to buy a game dominating 6 drop like Dreaming Cave or Plunder is more important. There are some players who do well who don't do that, but I don't necessarily think that they are right.

spartaxoxo

Personally how I handle Warsong is I keep it if an Archer or Midnight raid is available to combo with really early. If not, it gets turned into a writ.

WitchyKiki

Personofsecrets wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

Would you suggest turning War Song into a writ of coin as soon as possible?

Generally speaking, yes. When a power card shows up, a player just needs to consistently be able to buy it. That single power and combo potential can add up sometimes, I guess, but being able to buy a game dominating 6 drop like Dreaming Cave or Plunder is more important. There are some players who do well who don't do that, but I don't necessarily think that they are right.

I see, can't say I've ever tossed it and I have a good win rate. BUT, I have witnessed it be a hinderance to my own moves many times.