vampires pure down side

logan68

even at stage one its all penalties. Why are they so pathetic. The abilities should be much stronger considering the penalties instead the only upside is the cost less to use. Why wouldn't they become stronger as the stage increases and the penalties increase. At sage 3 or 4 the vampire abilities should be better then any other ability you can slot.

Snamyap

The passives are tied to your stage.

Frogmother

How the devs designed vampires is unlogical.

the more you feed (higher stage), the worse the penalties are. It should be the opposite, feed to reduce penalties and get more advantages.
currently a half starved vampire has more benefits than a well fed one.

Ragnarok0130

Frogmother wrote: »

How the devs designed vampires is unlogical.

the more you feed (higher stage), the worse the penalties are. It should be the opposite, feed to reduce penalties and get more advantages.
currently a half starved vampire has more benefits than a well fed one.

I agree that it makes no sense that the less you feed the stonger you are, that is completely illogical. BGS had a similar system vampire in Skyrim and I had the same thoughts about that system. I can't remember what vamp was like in Oblivion since I ditched it as soon as I saw that I took constant sun damage during the day and couldn't fast travel.

Molydeus

Yes, ZOS killed vampires due to PvP, and nerfed all their cool and fun abilities into the ground. Their abilities are near useless now, and the only reason I can imagine anyone ever wanting to play a vampire these days is to either be able to run while sneaking or purely for roleplay.

OBJnoob

Vampire was reworked because of PvE. Everybody was a vampire for the recovery passives. The abilities were always useless.

Dr_Con

OBJnoob wrote: »

Vampire was reworked because of PvE. Everybody was a vampire for the recovery passives. The abilities were always useless.

I mean, through that line is a spammable accessible for all classes, but ok. It's not like healing and health recovery aren't already halved for pvp anyways.

OBJnoob

@Dr_Con Oh trust me I know vampire as a whole isn't useless. In fact my magden uses the arterial burst of which you speak. Still though-- the actual reason people are vampires is either for the stealth/damage thing or for undeath, not for the active abilities. And in this way the problem now is the same as the problem then.

I just thought it'd be easier to defend that one small point instead of try to persuade someone that thinks vampire is all downside that it is actually all upside.

Vampire was nerfed years ago because of the 15% increase to mag and stam recovery that all PvErs were using. Then it was nerfed more recently because of PvErs using pale order ring in conjunction with the vampire damage toggle.

Currently it over performs for PVP and most people want it nerfed/reworked. But that hasn't happened yet.

Carcamongus

Stage 1 has a few benefits, it's not just penalties. The one that comes to mind is no slowdown when sneaking. In the old system, feeding lowered your stage, so your vampiric abilities actually grew stronger the less you ate. At least now you need to maintain a healthy diet if you want to remain at more advanced stages. And what changes the most about the stages are the passives. Personally, the costs are too steep for my taste, so I just stick to stage 1. On the other hand, not having to feed to remain at stage 1 was a big improvement for me.

Stefirex

I'm all about that Unnatural Movement passive!

Snamyap

Carcamongus wrote: »

Stage 1 has a few benefits, it's not just penalties. The one that comes to mind is no slowdown when sneaking. In the old system, feeding lowered your stage, so your vampiric abilities actually grew stronger the less you ate. At least now you need to maintain a healthy diet if you want to remain at more advanced stages. And what changes the most about the stages are the passives. Personally, the costs are too steep for my taste, so I just stick to stage 1. On the other hand, not having to feed to remain at stage 1 was a big improvement for me.

Imho, the best way to circumvent the penalties is to use a heavy attack build, with Oakensoul.

Baconlad

I'm a vampire. TBH I have been since I discovered mistform. When they gave us spell damage from out of stealth and sprint to stealth I fully embraced it.

I think it's in a good spot. But I think that they should not have fire damage, you can't do PvE as a full vampire build and compete in endgame, it just doesn't work!

fxeconomisteb17_ESO

OBJnoob wrote: »

Vampire was reworked because of PvE. Everybody was a vampire for the recovery passives. The abilities were always useless.

I removed Vampirism from my characters in the old framework, as they were slipping gradually into stage 4, killing health regen. But in the new framework they're all vampires. Granted, they destroyed Mist Form - could have simply just deleted it form the game - but there is still the Drain... Not as useful as it was before, nerfed damage. Not as useful as it could be - cast while blocking...

Vevvev

All downsides you say? I recommend grabbing the passives to make increasing your stage worth it.

Stage 3 is the most powerful in PvP, and stage 4 is pure PvE cheese with that invisibility sprint. Stage 2 is great for gankers, questers wanting to use stealth, and PvPers who heal after leaving mistform.

Blood for Blood is also PvE cheese as it has no magicka cost, and when coupled with a decent heal over time it's basically free to cast forever. (See the effects of the Pale Order Ring on a vampire build for more on that.) In PvP on certain builds it's great for sustaining, but terrible in group content as it cuts off outside healing.
Arterial Burst is utilized by some magBlade critical gank builds, but it's the magicka cost version.
Both of these melee attacks work better on a Dragonknight as it buffs the range to 7 meters over 5.

The ultimate is also a reset button in PvP, but in PvE it's usefulness is questionable. Great for certain boss fights, overkill for everything else, and lasts too short to be more useful than raw damage dealing abilities.

Vampiric Drain.... it.... kinda depends. 9 times out of 10 you wouldn't ever use it, but for tank builds that don't need to hold block 24/7 it has some versatility. Drain Vigor has a far better healing scaling on it, and Exhilarating Drain can help with ultimate regeneration. If going Exhilarating Drain I recommend a Decisive weapon, light attacking, and combining the ability with Major or Minor Heroism.

Blood Frenzy is more of a PvE thing now. I actually kinda like it, but if you're smart with it's use the Sated Fury morph is like an additional burst heal as you store your HP in basically a hidden away health bar.

Elusive Mist is great in PvP, although Blood Mist is more a troll's tool now. I don't recommend either morph in PvE unless you literally have no other snare/immobilization purging ability.