thoughts on hybridization....

Sparxlost

How do we feel about hybridization going into 2023, now that we have had it for awhile??

WuffyCerulei

we love it!

I definitely like having more choices to my rotation as a magsorc, since our rotations have barely changed over the years. I can understand other classes' gripes tho, especially the DK issue of whip having a stam and mag cost. I also like having way more sets to use than what we had before.

Soarora

we love it!

I hate struggling with sustain and I feel like it achieved the goal of opening up new options. I’m of the belief that the dagger frontbar meta isn’t entirely the blame of hybridization though I could see how armor choice may be… I don’t remember the old passives, though.

WuffyCerulei

we love it!

Soarora wrote: »

I hate struggling with sustain and I feel like it achieved the goal of opening up new options. I’m of the belief that the dagger frontbar meta isn’t entirely the blame of hybridization though I could see how armor choice may be… I don’t remember the old passives, though.

Double dagger front bar's been meta for the minmaxing parse monkeys long before the hybridization. "Magicka" dps going all medium and using almost all stam abilities is new tho.

WrathOfInnos

It is a little weird but not terrible..

Mostly love it, many new and interesting options, but they really need to finish out the last few details. Hybrid potion buffs, updating unique class minor buffs (sorcery, brutality, savagery, prophecy), hybrid jewelry glyphs (spell/weapon damage), warrior and apprentice mundus (should be combined like Thief).

Sustain is also in a weird spot from hybridization. Hybrid builds have infinite sustain with no effort, while any pure magicka or stamina build has become impossible to sustain. Basically hybrids have double the sustain by utilizing both pools, so there's no incentive to go for single-stat. This resulted in groups dropping sets like hollowfang, stone talker and worm, since 9/10 players have no need. There's no easy fix to this problem, I think long term it may need to be a system where all skills cost magicka and stamina is reserved for block/dodge/roll/bash/break free.

colossalvoids

It is a little weird but not terrible..

I don't think it's fleshed out enough still to start the talk, but mostly it's a good fundament for the future if the game would address issues that ironically are making hybridisation an issue currently for a lot of folks.

Nihilr

we love it!

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

... There's no easy fix to this problem, I think long term it may need to be a system where all skills cost magicka and stamina is reserved for block/dodge/roll/bash/break free.

My husband told me that this was how the game started out as, and then they made physical damage "feats" cost stamina. I'm not sure this would be the right way to go back to though, adding stamina to a build would be more useless or niche then.

chessalavakia_ESO

My characters are more effective but, they generally have less of a unique identity to them.

This was also magnified by Oakensoul.

So, while this has opened up more possibilities for the characters in the short term, I think a pretty good chance exists I'll be burned out of ESO by this time next year if we don't see significant additions next year.

VaranisArano

I'm weirded out by some of the choices that came with it.

Hybridization was supposed to open up more skill choices and make it less punishing for diverging from the strict Magicka/Stamina build style we'd been in for a long time.

But then there's the recent design choice to incentivize Wardens to use Ice Staves.

Like...how does giving one class a buff for using a specific magicka-based weapon square with hybridization?

I dunno. For a Dev team who's tried to standardize so much, that one befuddles me.

Nihilr

we love it!

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm weirded out by some of the choices that came with it.

Hybridization was supposed to open up more skill choices and make it less punishing for diverging from the strict Magicka/Stamina build style we'd been in for a long time.

But then there's the recent design choice to incentivize Wardens to use Ice Staves.

Like...how does giving one class a buff for using a specific magicka-based weapon square with hybridization?

I dunno. For a Dev team who's tried to standardize so much, that one befuddles me.

It's because people have begged for the latter also, almost as much as others wanted the former.

The only way for people to truly be happy with all of the changes movong forward would be to break the classes up. If we could choose any skills from any classes, limited by the how many skill types we can select (direct damage, DoTs, HoTs, Stuns, etc), then it would still be balanced and we could create even more unique identities. Certain abilities like Shadowcloak would need to meet a "minimum" criteria like "you must choose all other 4 Shadow skilltree abilities before unlocking Shadowcloak for your character" upon character creation.

Starting skills should also not put users to struggle using magicka abilities when they are building for stamina. Stamina choices shouldn't impede on magicka users, and vice versa. The solution:

Level 1 skills/abilities should start out using either Stamina OR magicka (whichever is the higher resource), then the morphs should be a stamina or magicka option with their respectable perks.

WrathOfInnos

It is a little weird but not terrible..

Nihilr wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

... There's no easy fix to this problem, I think long term it may need to be a system where all skills cost magicka and stamina is reserved for block/dodge/roll/bash/break free.

My husband told me that this was how the game started out as, and then they made physical damage "feats" cost stamina. I'm not sure this would be the right way to go back to though, adding stamina to a build would be more useless or niche then.

Yep, it definitely started out more like that. Although IIRC even in the early days the stamina weapon skills cost stamina, while all class skills and staff skills were magicka. The general trend over the years was to add more and more stamina skills and morphs, allowing many builds to invest entirely into stamina for both skills and utility. This direction made a lot of sense at the time, but as soon as hybridization hit it became pointless. Now there is no harm in dagger or bow builds spending magicka, everything scales with highest stats. Maybe there is a better solution for balancing sustain in the hybrid meta, I haven't thought of one.

Sparxlost

It is a little weird but not terrible..

i agreee with most of you on this even though i WAS opposed to the idea before it went live...

Turtle_Bot

My vote is for "It's not finished yet".

So much has been left out, same goes for reworking the rest of the abilities to fit the new damage/healing formula that works better off max damage instead of max stats, it's just not finished yet.

Once everything has been finished and both morphs of all abilities balanced out to provide distinct but viable options to builds I will say it will be a good thing.

Zama666

It is a little weird but not terrible..

Now that we have had it for a while.
I would like to go back with some changes.

Maybe instead of an 80/20 split. Put everything into stam and your magicka get 20% bonus?
I would like to see health scaled differently -as a third option. Maybe health should determine more direct damage with certain weapons?

But I have been enjoying the not worrying about. the whole put 64 Atrrib points into this skill and get all the bonuses...that is fine for now.

Any of that make sense?

merpins

It is a little weird but not terrible..

Been playing since beta. It's fine. I like having more options when playing the game, and being able to use any skill if I have the resources is nice. I wish they'd actually finish the hybridization, though. There's a ton of abilities and stuff in the game that isn't hybrid, and it just makes certain builds or playstyles not work. Potions, some passive buffs, usually unique buffs, heck I'd say even the new changes to Warden with the frost staff requirement are stepping on the toes of hybridization. They need to pick one or the other and actually commit to it, otherwise it just feels unfinished and wonky.

xthrshx

we hate it!

I don’t hate hybridization in principle, but the execution is horrible.

First, it’s nowhere near completely implemented. There are many areas where hybridization has been neglected (potions, several skills), and honestly it’s well past the point where this should have been done.

Second, it reduces build diversity rather than enhancing it. Because skills are poorly balanced, there is generally an obvious choice for which skills to run. This leads to certain morphs being useless and reduces the impact of build decisions. Nearly every class runs an almost identical setup. This is a consistent feature of the hybridization approach. Another way this bears out is in race selection. Giving orcs spell damage and high elves physical damage buffs is a ridiculous consequence of hybridizing everything.

The worst fallout, to me, is that hybridization has destroyed the need to diversify the roster in end game trials. Because spell damage and weapon damage are the same thing, two classes can now do what once took four. And because sets scale both damage types, this means you have 8 DDs of the same class, running the same skills, all in the same gear. It’s boring. And it’s not the fault of players for adopting the meta when chasing difficult achievements; it’s the fault of a poorly implemented system that actively discourages build and roster diversity.

Luede

we hate it!

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I definitely like having more choices to my rotation as a magsorc, since our rotations have barely changed over the years. I can understand other classes' gripes tho, especially the DK issue of whip having a stam and mag cost. I also like having way more sets to use than what we had before.

is this from a pve, or pvp point of view? i just can't think of any skill that can be used on a mag sorc that wasn't possible before (from a pvp point of view). the most i would think of here is bound armaments, which however has better alternatives on a mag sorc.

fred4

Well, the results of this poll are confirming my bias. It's neither better nor worse, just a huge pointless exercise considering the amount of work that went into it.

Sparxlost

It is a little weird but not terrible..

fred4 wrote: »

Well, the results of this poll are confirming my bias. It's neither better nor worse, just a huge pointless exercise considering the amount of work that went into it.

i think what we learned is that more things are viable for hybrids but the game STILL suffers from a lack of viability overall..

LittlePinkDot

we love it!

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I definitely like having more choices to my rotation as a magsorc, since our rotations have barely changed over the years. I can understand other classes' gripes tho, especially the DK issue of whip having a stam and mag cost. I also like having way more sets to use than what we had before.

I'm loving being able to use haunting curse and endless fury as a stam sorc.

Araneae6537

we hate it!

In regards to armor, I hate it. Why do any armor passives give increased damage or pen anyway??? Shouldn’t it all be about protection and whether and how it effects movement, including combat core abilities and stealth?

I don’t mind medium armor being viable for mag dps, but now it is absolute meta and the arbitrary downsides to light armor don’t even give you anything commensurate. I think damage, including crit/pen should be the same from the armor weights alone, but rather they vary in protections and moving around the battlefield. There’s nothing wrong with Relequens and I wouldn’t ask to see it nerfed, only it’s frustrating and boring that should be BiS for ALL DPS builds in group PvE.

Sparxlost

It is a little weird but not terrible..

Araneae6537 wrote: »

In regards to armor, I hate it. Why do any armor passives give increased damage or pen anyway??? Shouldn’t it all be about protection and whether and how it effects movement, including combat core abilities and stealth?

I don’t mind medium armor being viable for mag dps, but now it is absolute meta and the arbitrary downsides to light armor don’t even give you anything commensurate. I think damage, including crit/pen should be the same from the armor weights alone, but rather they vary in protections and moving around the battlefield. There’s nothing wrong with Relequens and I wouldn’t ask to see it nerfed, only it’s frustrating and boring that should be BiS for ALL DPS builds in group PvE.

freedom of movement can have a factor on your ability to deal damage.. the lighter you are the less resistance you will have to swing a weapon and thus increasing penetration.... i doubt they had this in mind when making up passives but heavy armor doesnt really provide any damage buffs and still outperforms both medium and light a majority of the time imo... the type and quality of defense an armor type provides should determine its potential offense?? idk it is an entirely different topic to talk about..

that being said i do believe that raw damage and penetration should be flipped for med and light armors and that light armor should get a healing buff..

kojou

we love it!

I like the overall direction, I just wish they would do a better job making everything consistent, and address unintended side effects.

francesinhalover

It is a little weird but not terrible..

Weapons shouldnt had been hybridized hibridised hibrcjcjfgvv

It just kills iddntity. Mages with bow and two handed. Yeah... Great.

Kappachi

we love it!

Fits elder scroll's philosophy of becoming what you want to be, along with picking & choosing your item sets class building in this game feels truly free and more limitless than any other MMO out there which is exactly what an elder scrolls title should strive to be, especially with the CP system on top of the typical skill trees.

LittlePinkDot

we love it!

francesinhalover wrote: »

Weapons shouldnt had been hybridized hibridised hibrcjcjfgvv

It just kills iddntity. Mages with bow and two handed. Yeah... Great.

Destruction staff passives need a buff.