Stam DK PvP rotation?

Draxund

I'm running a meta-ish Magicka DK right now in PvP (mostly Cyrodiil), with the cookie cutter burst rotation of: spam Flames of Oblivion until 3 stacks of Seething Fury, Rocks stun, Leap, Molten Whip. Sometimes I pop Corrosive to get spicy. But for some reason, I'm just not liking it -- I'm not having fun even though it's mostly effective. I think I want to run a more stamina-based style that isn't relying on building stacks of Seething Fury in order to execute. Also to me, the DK just feels like it should be a more stamina-based melee fighter... not sure how to explain it, I know that sounds stupid. After maintaining buffs and bar swaps, managing 3 stacks for Molten Whip in order to execute is more than my big-thumbed, dumb brain wants to do. I'd rather have an execute that hits hard at low HP no matter what.

Would anyone mind sharing with me a DK rotation (stamina preferably) that doesn't involve Molten Whip? Or is that just pointless in this meta? Anything you've been having luck with (and fun with) would be greatly appreciated!

OBJnoob

I think you'll find that any stam setup you do will not be as good. But that doesn't mean it can't be good... And if good is good enough for you, then let's talk.

First of all you'll want to be kinda hybrid I think. All the DK heals and buffs are magic, and so you'll need some off-stat and off-stat recovery. This has always been the way. You can kinda cheese mag recovery on a stamdk with tri-pots used between ultimates... So you don't need too much, but I wouldn't neglect it either.

Now for the bad news. You're prolly gonna end up using Dswing. Not the worst thing in the world-- it still hits like a truck. My last "stamdk" used Dswing and Flamelash-- which you might not like, but its less annoying than molten. This gives you basically two spammables which you can choose from depending on which resource is higher. And when you have someone off balance and you can lash them repeatedly you're basically unkillable on your front bar.

So I guess my FB would look something like this: Dizzy Swing, utility flex spot, utility flex spot, flamelash, executioner, DLeap.

My BB would be something like: fragmented shield, coag, vigor, noxious breath (stam morph for penetration.) Cauterize, Temporal Guard.

Recommendations for front bar flex spots would be fossilize/talons, race against time/shuffle... Stuff like that.

Or maybe cauterize goes on FB for major savagery... Sorry, it's been a while. But I'm sure you can iron out the finer details. I hope what I've given you is decent advice. I think it is, I've got a few good stamdk years under my belt.

Turtle_Bot

cauterize on the front bar is fairly common as is noxious breath, that crit and breach without requiring bar swapping helps a lot. The other option is for crit is to run fighters guild detection skill (forgot name) on the front bar, for crit chance and minor berserk from flank (so basically all the time with how messed up positioning is in cyrodiil) and keep cauterize on back bar for crit on both bars.

Other options that can work nicely are for the flex spots are rally or stampede, (rally is a decent delayed burst heal + major sorcery/brutality and stampede makes you less reliant on leap to chase down enemies and is an ok DoT), other options are vigor or coag on front bar so you don't have to bar swap as often, but they would be better on the back bar.

Also, try to find some room for cinder storm, its a super strong heal over time + super snare and allows for some really fun perma blocking shenanigans.

As for gear set-up, I was running vate 2h + maarselok with trickery, rallying cry or kynmarchers last patch and it did decently well. I also don't recall any of these sets getting a nerf in U36 (lmk if they did) so the build should do fine still.

gariondavey

Hybrid (more stam focused for damage) is stronger than mag dk...a lot of incorrect information here

Throw on master dw, rending slashes, flames of oblivion, noxious breath, fossilize, whip is pretty much what you want to do.

You are welcome to try something else like dizzy in corrosive, but what I listed is pretty much what you should do to be most effective

OBJnoob

Well I'm going to try not to disagree too strongly with Garion because he is a very good man to take advice from... He's helped me take already functional builds and make them better.

But I will offer some "alternative facts" (uh oh,) just in case they are useful.

The DW setup has no heals or utility on front bar and therefore strikes me as being designed for group play or dueling. I think it would be difficult to make that work in a less controlled/supported environment like cyrodiil vX or solo que battlegrounds.

I also question masters DW considering dots were recently nerfed. While the arena weapon turns this skill into a decent spammable and a good dot, I do wonder if under the circumstances it is worth giving up a monster set, mythic, or FB 5-piece bonus, which is what it'll cost you.

Also worth noting OP doesn't want to use whip. Without whip, you're going to want an execute.

On stamdk I've always liked cauterize instead of FoO. Spamming Coag isn't as feasible when you're specced into stam. But the combination of frontbar cauterize and flamelash means you don't have to barswap as often.

Using DLeap as an ultimate, since it can be cast fairly frequently, adds a lot of utility. It helps you sustain without needing to be tanky enough to survive between corrosives. It also frees up your ability bar for more unique utility because things like gap closers and stuns are no longer necessary they're just nice.

Keeping in mind that battlegrounds, for example, is equally about stealing other people's kills as about securing your own, there is a LOT to be said for the DLeap+Executioner combo.

Okay so... Boiling it down I guess I only have two points. 1) If you're not going to use molten whip then use an execute. 2) I would think about your preferred playstyle and what environments you pvp in to decide on pressure or "pop."

If you have a small scale team at your back then maybe your job is to dot everyone up with stinging slashes, spam FOO a few times, and corrosive whip whoever has the lowest health after your team ulti dumps. If you spend a lot of time solo or in disorganized groups then maybe you want to have a rotation with less wind-up and more frequent (not more effective, but more frequent,) windows to kill. Going Corrosive, fossilizing, and whipping is a great way to kill. But fossilize only stuns one target and if anybody else is hitting the same person then you're competing for killing blows. Which, if the whip doesn't do it, basically means you lose. With DLeap you don't just stun the guy you want to kill but you stun some of the other people attacking them too. It's useful.

gariondavey

The dw set up I described has a ton of healing back bar with vigor, coag and rally.

Fossilize gives minor brutality, which is utility. Also, being able to lock someone down every 6 or 7 seconds with a stun and immobilize is cracked. It can also be used to peel people off a teammate.

Master dw is one of the best items in the game for a melee character. It is incredible on dk, stam sorc, and even is used by stamden, hybrid warden, hybrid plar, and probably other specs as well. It is very, very strong.

The trick is using it and back barring a set, using a 5 piece on body, and then choosing trainee/1pc monster+mythic or monster set. Yes, you give up going 5/5/1/1/2 but it is easily worth it, especially on stam dk.

Cauterize is pretty weak as a heal, and flames of oblivion is legit cracked. It does insane amounts of damage. If you aren't using this you are nerfing yourself.

You won't need to spam coag, just use it when below 30 percent, keep up your vigor and rally otherwise and los.

What I will agree with here is if OP doesn't want to run whip (which you are nerfing yourself if you do this, as I already mentioned in my first post here) then yes, running an execute (spin) would be a decent choice. Most people dodge roll after you fossilize or leap them. Spin makes that dodge roll pointless. And you would ideally be running master dw anyways, so you have the right weapon choice to do spin.

Some sets to consider
Master dw
Way of fire
Wretched vitality
Vateshran 2h
Essence thief
Rally cry
Dragon's appetite
Ravager (procs with noxious)
That poison crit proc set that summons the hunger dude after a few seconds (sorry really tired and the name is escaping me
Daedric trickery
Kynemarcher
Serpent's disdain

I will say that I put together a stam/hybrid dk a few days ago (dw + 2h) and it is absolutely insane. So much fun, so much damage. Solo, bgs, ic...really well rounded. I just need some more practice on it, but it is a total blast.

Thecompton73

gariondavey wrote: »

The dw set up I described has a ton of healing back bar with vigor, coag and rally.

Fossilize gives minor brutality, which is utility. Also, being able to lock someone down every 6 or 7 seconds with a stun and immobilize is cracked. It can also be used to peel people off a teammate.

Master dw is one of the best items in the game for a melee character. It is incredible on dk, stam sorc, and even is used by stamden, hybrid warden, hybrid plar, and probably other specs as well. It is very, very strong.

The trick is using it and back barring a set, using a 5 piece on body, and then choosing trainee/1pc monster+mythic or monster set. Yes, you give up going 5/5/1/1/2 but it is easily worth it, especially on stam dk.

Cauterize is pretty weak as a heal, and flames of oblivion is legit cracked. It does insane amounts of damage. If you aren't using this you are nerfing yourself.

You won't need to spam coag, just use it when below 30 percent, keep up your vigor and rally otherwise and los.

What I will agree with here is if OP doesn't want to run whip (which you are nerfing yourself if you do this, as I already mentioned in my first post here) then yes, running an execute (spin) would be a decent choice. Most people dodge roll after you fossilize or leap them. Spin makes that dodge roll pointless. And you would ideally be running master dw anyways, so you have the right weapon choice to do spin.

Some sets to consider
Master dw
Way of fire
Wretched vitality
Vateshran 2h
Essence thief
Rally cry
Dragon's appetite
Ravager (procs with noxious)
That poison crit proc set that summons the hunger dude after a few seconds (sorry really tired and the name is escaping me
Daedric trickery
Kynemarcher
Serpent's disdain

I will say that I put together a stam/hybrid dk a few days ago (dw + 2h) and it is absolutely insane. So much fun, so much damage. Solo, bgs, ic...really well rounded. I just need some more practice on it, but it is a total blast.

Wow, I just finished leveling a hybrid DK named "thousand cut death" in order to run Masters DW and Serpents disdain as one 5 piece, still trying to decide on my other 5. Thinking maybe going 4 piece of a set with SD/WD or armor/health and Faun Larks Clading mythic.
I'm still in the process of getting enough skill points so I haven't taken him into PvP yet but I'm really looking forward to it. I'm going with the Vate ice staff on the BB with Elemental susceptibility
BB gets guaranteed application of chilled, concussed and burning in one quick free cast with the Vate dot. Venom Claw on BB for guaranteed poison status. Since all the status effects on that bar are guaranteed procs I can use double dot poison and a different trait besides charged on the staff.
Front bar DW with one charged and one nirn, magic damage enchant and disease enchant. Whirling blades for physical damage for sundered. Burning talons for another burst and strong dot. FoO for the extra pressure.
Heals are Coag front bar for a burst heal if I get in trouble while I'm on offense plus Vigor BB for a HOT while I block.
I"m thinking get someone all dotted up, then run through them to charm them so they can't heal and then finish with leap and spin to win.

gariondavey

Way better mythic choices imo but the rest is good!

Thecompton73

gariondavey wrote: »

Way better mythic choices imo but the rest is good!

Yeah, looking into it a bit more and realizing it's classed as a hard CC that can be instantly broken takes the shine off a bit. Still wanna try it out just cause the recovery you get each time you charm someone is crazy. Run through a crowd and refill both bars. I'll likely wind up with Bloodlord's for blocking sustain while using the Ice staff then just use a standard CC like leap or fossilize.
With so many options on those 5 pieces I'm exited to try them out and see what works best!

Draxund

OBJnoob wrote: »

Also worth noting OP doesn't want to use whip. Without whip, you're going to want an execute.

Using DLeap as an ultimate, since it can be cast fairly frequently, adds a lot of utility. It helps you sustain without needing to be tanky enough to survive between corrosives. It also frees up your ability bar for more unique utility because things like gap closers and stuns are no longer necessary they're just nice.

...there is a LOT to be said for the DLeap+Executioner combo.

Okay so... Boiling it down I guess I only have two points. 1) If you're not going to use molten whip then use an execute.With DLeap you don't just stun the guy you want to kill but you stun some of the other people attacking them too. It's useful.

I'm liking the sound of this strategy; the combo of Dizzy Swing and Executioner may be what I'm after. I also dig Spin-to-win, but I'm less confident in what else to run in my rotation with DW (e.g., I lose a bit of penetration, so Nox Breath on front would be good). Anyhow, I was almost sold on Dizzy Swing, but I see sooo much hate for it online. Why do people seem to hate this skill nowadays? What am I missing? (I've never run it before)

OBJnoob

The skill has a channel time so it isn't as fast as most spammables. And since the game is a little laggy sometimes and targets tend to be fast sometimes it will say the target is out of range. Dizzy Swing also gets hate because for years (in the past,) Dizzy Swing was SO good that it was sortve a meme and a source of anger to get killed by it.

Dizzy Swing still works on DK in my opinion because DKs have a passive that increases range of melee abilities. Plus it sets people off balance so like I was saying IF you choose to use flamelash (instead of molten whip,) then while a target is off balance you will have excellent self healing and be using a spammable without a cast time.

Two dizzy swings in a row will stun and thereby consume the off balance (I think,) so your attempt to kill someone should look like dizzy--flamelash--flamelash--dleap(stun)--executioner.

It's not the best setup as Garion would tell you, but if you like it and practice it you'll have success.

Some of even most good players might not fall to such a straightforward attack, but if you can incorporate FoO (I know I recommended Cauterize but Garion is probably right that FoO is too good to give up, and if you're getting decent mileage out of flamelash you might not need the healing,) and a DoT or two, some poisons, or a proc set of some kind... Suddenly you're beating most people.

gariondavey

Draxund wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Also worth noting OP doesn't want to use whip. Without whip, you're going to want an execute.

Using DLeap as an ultimate, since it can be cast fairly frequently, adds a lot of utility. It helps you sustain without needing to be tanky enough to survive between corrosives. It also frees up your ability bar for more unique utility because things like gap closers and stuns are no longer necessary they're just nice.

...there is a LOT to be said for the DLeap+Executioner combo.

Okay so... Boiling it down I guess I only have two points. 1) If you're not going to use molten whip then use an execute.With DLeap you don't just stun the guy you want to kill but you stun some of the other people attacking them too. It's useful.

I'm liking the sound of this strategy; the combo of Dizzy Swing and Executioner may be what I'm after. I also dig Spin-to-win, but I'm less confident in what else to run in my rotation with DW (e.g., I lose a bit of penetration, so Nox Breath on front would be good). Anyhow, I was almost sold on Dizzy Swing, but I see sooo much hate for it online. Why do people seem to hate this skill nowadays? What am I missing? (I've never run it before)

The answer of dw spammable is a heavy attack + rending slashes with master dw

Dizzy is meh on dk, imo. Makes running fossilize pointless, which is one of dks strongest aspects.
Also, good luck landing it on movespeed builds.