Class Change Tokens - A REAL Proposal
Richard_Arisen
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Preface
About two-and-a-half years ago, now, in May of 2020, the Greymoor chapter was released. With it came the Alliance Change Token—the first since the Appearance, Race, and Name tokens hit the scene all the way back in August 2016, a couple months before the release of One Tamriel and the earnest beginning of ESO's "play your own way" mindset.
In October of 2020, several months after the Alliance Change Token's arrival, I made a post pointing out the fact that we now had the power to change every formerly concrete decision we made pre-game—except, of course, for a character's class. And I made the case for the addition of Class Change Tokens. Over two years later, here we are again.
The Proposal
My original post received much support and some very valid critiques. Among those critiques was the question of how exactly such a change would be implemented. At the time, I had no clear answer, and threw out some half-baked ideas in my responses to the commenters.
And because no one likes hearing complaints without solutions, I've come up with a very simple one:
As for the Crown cost, that's really up to the people in charge, but I think it makes the most sense just to have it cost the same as a Race Change Token, or perhaps slightly more expensive.
Addressing Concerns
There were several other concerns raised in the responses to my original post. Rather than go back and reply to two-year-old comments with my new perspectives, I'll address them here. I'm putting it under a spoiler to stop this post from being too lengthy on its face. But if you have any concerns of your own, check here first, in case you plan to raise a similar point.
Preemptive Q&A
I'm sure, even if I've covered the logistical side of things well enough, a number of personal criticisms will still be raised, as they were in my last post. I'll take a few of the ones I'm anticipating now, and try to give some insight into why this particular solution is preferable to the other options currently available to me (and to others who feel the same).
About two-and-a-half years ago, now, in May of 2020, the Greymoor chapter was released. With it came the Alliance Change Token—the first since the Appearance, Race, and Name tokens hit the scene all the way back in August 2016, a couple months before the release of One Tamriel and the earnest beginning of ESO's "play your own way" mindset.
In October of 2020, several months after the Alliance Change Token's arrival, I made a post pointing out the fact that we now had the power to change every formerly concrete decision we made pre-game—except, of course, for a character's class. And I made the case for the addition of Class Change Tokens. Over two years later, here we are again.
The Proposal
My original post received much support and some very valid critiques. Among those critiques was the question of how exactly such a change would be implemented. At the time, I had no clear answer, and threw out some half-baked ideas in my responses to the commenters.
And because no one likes hearing complaints without solutions, I've come up with a very simple one:
Upon use of the Class Change Token:
1. Automatically refund all skillpoints invested in that character's class skill trees.
2. Reset all class skill tree levels to 1 and all skill progress to the beginning.
1. Automatically refund all skillpoints invested in that character's class skill trees.
2. Reset all class skill tree levels to 1 and all skill progress to the beginning.
As for the Crown cost, that's really up to the people in charge, but I think it makes the most sense just to have it cost the same as a Race Change Token, or perhaps slightly more expensive.
Addressing Concerns
There were several other concerns raised in the responses to my original post. Rather than go back and reply to two-year-old comments with my new perspectives, I'll address them here. I'm putting it under a spoiler to stop this post from being too lengthy on its face. But if you have any concerns of your own, check here first, in case you plan to raise a similar point.
1. Meta Chasers
In my previous post, one of the criticisms I received was that having Class Change Tokens would make it far too easy for min-maxers to "chase the meta" and immediately jump into a new build.
On top of just being the simplest solution, completely resetting class skill tree levels and skill progress would delay these supposed meta-chasers from instantly having the new best build. Some previous commenters suggested adding time or quantity limits to the use of Class Changes, but I really don't think that's necessary.
Besides, I've since found this counterargument to be almost wholly irrelevant, as you already can fairly easily chase the meta, if you're so inclined. In fact, I would argue that the current arrangement makes it easier to chase the meta than if the opposite were true (i.e. if there were only Class Change Tokens and no Race Change Tokens).
As it is currently, if you want to be as efficiently meta as possible, you theoretically only need to level 6 characters—one for each class—and then swap the races with tokens whenever a new best-in-slot combination occurs. Whereas, if we had Class Changes but no Race Changes, you might need to level a character of each race (10) just in case the best-in-slot class meta for a particular race changes.
In short, having both kinds of tokens just doesn't really affect much. We're talking about a very fringe group of hardcore players who might only go down these paths in theory and would still have to spend tons of money to do so. And it's no more "pay-to-win" to swap a class to match a race than it is to swap a race to match a class.
2. Cost-Benefit Analysis
Another point that was raised against my last post was the idea that it made no financial sense for the people in charge to add Class Changes unless they were really expensive.
The argument was that, since you could theoretically only play one character and just change the class and race at will, you would never have to make alts in order to get different experiences. And since you would never have have to make alts, you would never have to buy Skyshards, riding lessons, and skill lines since you'd only have to max them out once.
But like... Even if you do have alts, you're not obligated to spend Crowns to build them. I have 18 characters on my main account/server and have never bought any of those aforementioned upgrades, and don't intend to.
Plus, the Change Tokens themselves would still (presumably) cost money. If you're changing a character's class or race to chase the meta, you're still paying for it. If you're a roleplayer who's changed one of those things, you might want some appearance or name changes to go with it. They're still getting their money.
Or... You can just make a whole new character and do all those things for free anyway. Again, you're not obligated to spend money. Class Changes would just give you another option to do so.
And these things are literally only mutually exclusive if you play only one character. Most people have multiple. And it's totally viable for someone to want to change the class of a main character and pay to skip getting some Skyshards on an alt.
3. All the Single Characters
In a similar vein to some of the arguments in the last point, there were some commenters who were concerned that Class Change Tokens would incentivise the playing of only one character, and that this would somehow be concerning to the devs.
But, again, I find this claim dubious. For starters, as long as one is actively playing the game, I don't think it matters to the people in charge whether that person is investing time into 1 character or 18.
People who are inclined to make multiple characters are going to do so. People who only have the time or desire to play just one character will do just that. Some people only use alts for item muling, or Crafting Writs, or alternate dungeon roles. And nobody's going to just delete dungeon alts and drop 3k+ Crowns on a class change when asked to swap from a tank to a healer. (Plus, under my proposal, you wouldn't even have any class skills ready to use, then.)
In my previous post, one of the criticisms I received was that having Class Change Tokens would make it far too easy for min-maxers to "chase the meta" and immediately jump into a new build.
On top of just being the simplest solution, completely resetting class skill tree levels and skill progress would delay these supposed meta-chasers from instantly having the new best build. Some previous commenters suggested adding time or quantity limits to the use of Class Changes, but I really don't think that's necessary.
Besides, I've since found this counterargument to be almost wholly irrelevant, as you already can fairly easily chase the meta, if you're so inclined. In fact, I would argue that the current arrangement makes it easier to chase the meta than if the opposite were true (i.e. if there were only Class Change Tokens and no Race Change Tokens).
As it is currently, if you want to be as efficiently meta as possible, you theoretically only need to level 6 characters—one for each class—and then swap the races with tokens whenever a new best-in-slot combination occurs. Whereas, if we had Class Changes but no Race Changes, you might need to level a character of each race (10) just in case the best-in-slot class meta for a particular race changes.
In short, having both kinds of tokens just doesn't really affect much. We're talking about a very fringe group of hardcore players who might only go down these paths in theory and would still have to spend tons of money to do so. And it's no more "pay-to-win" to swap a class to match a race than it is to swap a race to match a class.
2. Cost-Benefit Analysis
Another point that was raised against my last post was the idea that it made no financial sense for the people in charge to add Class Changes unless they were really expensive.
The argument was that, since you could theoretically only play one character and just change the class and race at will, you would never have to make alts in order to get different experiences. And since you would never have have to make alts, you would never have to buy Skyshards, riding lessons, and skill lines since you'd only have to max them out once.
But like... Even if you do have alts, you're not obligated to spend Crowns to build them. I have 18 characters on my main account/server and have never bought any of those aforementioned upgrades, and don't intend to.
Plus, the Change Tokens themselves would still (presumably) cost money. If you're changing a character's class or race to chase the meta, you're still paying for it. If you're a roleplayer who's changed one of those things, you might want some appearance or name changes to go with it. They're still getting their money.
Or... You can just make a whole new character and do all those things for free anyway. Again, you're not obligated to spend money. Class Changes would just give you another option to do so.
And these things are literally only mutually exclusive if you play only one character. Most people have multiple. And it's totally viable for someone to want to change the class of a main character and pay to skip getting some Skyshards on an alt.
3. All the Single Characters
In a similar vein to some of the arguments in the last point, there were some commenters who were concerned that Class Change Tokens would incentivise the playing of only one character, and that this would somehow be concerning to the devs.
But, again, I find this claim dubious. For starters, as long as one is actively playing the game, I don't think it matters to the people in charge whether that person is investing time into 1 character or 18.
People who are inclined to make multiple characters are going to do so. People who only have the time or desire to play just one character will do just that. Some people only use alts for item muling, or Crafting Writs, or alternate dungeon roles. And nobody's going to just delete dungeon alts and drop 3k+ Crowns on a class change when asked to swap from a tank to a healer. (Plus, under my proposal, you wouldn't even have any class skills ready to use, then.)
Preemptive Q&A
I'm sure, even if I've covered the logistical side of things well enough, a number of personal criticisms will still be raised, as they were in my last post. I'll take a few of the ones I'm anticipating now, and try to give some insight into why this particular solution is preferable to the other options currently available to me (and to others who feel the same).
1a. "Why do you want to change your characters' classes so badly in the first place?"
Primarily, for roleplay reasons. One of my characters started off as a blank slate. She developed into a pious, righteous soldier with a big heart for her allies and a deep reverence for the Divines—a character much more suited to being a Templar than a Sorcerer, the latter of which I did not have in my roster, at the time. The other character was always meant to have a connection with the shadows through her birthsign; however, in an effort to maintain class/race diversity within my roster, I went with what I considered to be the next closest thing, which was also a Sorcerer—and it really just isn't the same.
My tastes for the various classes/races have also evolved over the years and I learned that I'm okay with having more of some things than others. Unfortunately, while I still have enough class diversity to do basically everything, my ideal balance is currently unable to be realised.
1b. "Why can't you still use them as they are outside of roleplay?"
Cognitive dissonance. Yes, I am well aware that this is very much a "me" problem, but it wouldn't be a problem at all if we just had that final change token to complete the set.
It just feels wrong using class abilities on these characters that clash with their roleplay skills and backstories. And so I simply don't use them very often. They feel like dead-weight item mules on my roster, which two CP characters with a lot of maxed skill lines shouldn't feel like. Whenever I am on them, I can't be for very long, or else I get too disheartened that my holy warrior is summoning Daedra, or that my Shadow-born can't disappear into the shadows, and then I want to stop playing altogether.
2. "Why can't you just delete and remake your characters? There in an Account-Wide Achievement system now. You can just buy back your progress with Crowns. Or you can just grind for it again, like you said you've done with every character."
I shouldn't have to. As of writing this, the /played command tells me that I've invested over 30 days of combined playtime on one and almost 77 days on the other since making them in 2017 and 2016 respectively. One of them has 2 bonus outfit slot unlocks; the other has 4. I could go on and on about the progress I'd lose on each of them if I had to delete and remake them just to play them as different classes...
Not all skill lines or progress can be bought. The resources I spent raising their crafting skills? Wasted. Their PvP ranks (the actual titled ranks, not the skill lines) that took hours upon hours to achieve? Back to 0. The brutal Antiquities grind that I've done at least 8 times now because it fits thematically with a bunch of my characters' backstories? I don't see that anywhere in the Crown Store. Neither do I see the weapon and armour skill lines that I've maxed out, nor a way to get the skillpoints from main quests, Group Events, and Group Dungeon quests back...
For people who want to change the class of their mains or only have one character, the issue is even worse. These characters are their crafters, their questers, their PvX'ers, their completionists, their everything—characters that simply cannot be deleted and remade on a whim.
That's one of the reasons they gave us all the other change tokens—so that we didn't have to give up all of our progress if we wanted to make a character's hair a different colour—or if we wanted to swap to our favourite race once we unlocked the "Any Race, Any Alliance" perk—or if we wanted to give our hastily made first character a proper lore name.
We can make all of those changes without having to rebuild our characters, or re-dye their entire wardrobes, or worry about banking all of their items and currency like we're setting the affairs of a dying person in order. Why should changing class be excluded from that convenience?
Primarily, for roleplay reasons. One of my characters started off as a blank slate. She developed into a pious, righteous soldier with a big heart for her allies and a deep reverence for the Divines—a character much more suited to being a Templar than a Sorcerer, the latter of which I did not have in my roster, at the time. The other character was always meant to have a connection with the shadows through her birthsign; however, in an effort to maintain class/race diversity within my roster, I went with what I considered to be the next closest thing, which was also a Sorcerer—and it really just isn't the same.
My tastes for the various classes/races have also evolved over the years and I learned that I'm okay with having more of some things than others. Unfortunately, while I still have enough class diversity to do basically everything, my ideal balance is currently unable to be realised.
1b. "Why can't you still use them as they are outside of roleplay?"
Cognitive dissonance. Yes, I am well aware that this is very much a "me" problem, but it wouldn't be a problem at all if we just had that final change token to complete the set.
It just feels wrong using class abilities on these characters that clash with their roleplay skills and backstories. And so I simply don't use them very often. They feel like dead-weight item mules on my roster, which two CP characters with a lot of maxed skill lines shouldn't feel like. Whenever I am on them, I can't be for very long, or else I get too disheartened that my holy warrior is summoning Daedra, or that my Shadow-born can't disappear into the shadows, and then I want to stop playing altogether.
2. "Why can't you just delete and remake your characters? There in an Account-Wide Achievement system now. You can just buy back your progress with Crowns. Or you can just grind for it again, like you said you've done with every character."
I shouldn't have to. As of writing this, the /played command tells me that I've invested over 30 days of combined playtime on one and almost 77 days on the other since making them in 2017 and 2016 respectively. One of them has 2 bonus outfit slot unlocks; the other has 4. I could go on and on about the progress I'd lose on each of them if I had to delete and remake them just to play them as different classes...
Not all skill lines or progress can be bought. The resources I spent raising their crafting skills? Wasted. Their PvP ranks (the actual titled ranks, not the skill lines) that took hours upon hours to achieve? Back to 0. The brutal Antiquities grind that I've done at least 8 times now because it fits thematically with a bunch of my characters' backstories? I don't see that anywhere in the Crown Store. Neither do I see the weapon and armour skill lines that I've maxed out, nor a way to get the skillpoints from main quests, Group Events, and Group Dungeon quests back...
For people who want to change the class of their mains or only have one character, the issue is even worse. These characters are their crafters, their questers, their PvX'ers, their completionists, their everything—characters that simply cannot be deleted and remade on a whim.
That's one of the reasons they gave us all the other change tokens—so that we didn't have to give up all of our progress if we wanted to make a character's hair a different colour—or if we wanted to swap to our favourite race once we unlocked the "Any Race, Any Alliance" perk—or if we wanted to give our hastily made first character a proper lore name.
We can make all of those changes without having to rebuild our characters, or re-dye their entire wardrobes, or worry about banking all of their items and currency like we're setting the affairs of a dying person in order. Why should changing class be excluded from that convenience?
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Eric_Prince✭✭✭✭Nothing to add really, you presented your ideas perfectly and I completely agree with everything you said. I think it would be a good, balanced solution for an old problem.
And since we share stories...When I first started playing at the end of Elsweyr year, I started playing as a necromancer. And since I don't like to rush things, I was investing time and resources in this character for a year or so before I started making alts. By that time my main was a crafter with a lot of learned motifs, he completed almost all story quests, gathered every single skyshard and discovered every single wayshrine.
Then suddenly I found out that necromancer was probably the worst class I could possibly choose. It just didn't feel as good as any other class for me (except for warden). I tried to change my main (a few times, actually), but nothing could replace my first character in my heart. I played less and less until I was just logging in for the daily reward and maybe a few quests.
And every time I thought for myself: 'If only I could change the class of my main. It would probably reignite my passion to play...'.
I hope it will happen, sooner than later, and for a very reasonable price.To be the Chosen One really sounds like lots of fun,
But in the end you'll just be someone's lunch (c)2 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is no real need for class change. Make a new character. Go out to Alikir pop a xp scroll, and during this even the breda drink, boom 50 in a couple of hours. Then just run around a couple zones and do the Habroage quest and you have all the skill points you need
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lardvader✭✭✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »There is no real need for class change. Make a new character. Go out to Alikir pop a xp scroll, and during this even the breda drink, boom 50 in a couple of hours. Then just run around a couple zones and do the Habroage quest and you have all the skill points you need
It's not getting to lvl 50. It's about maxed out horses, all guilds, pvp ranking, scrying etc.
I was sure we would get class change tokens before alliance change tokens... It's about time!CP 1200+ PC EU EP2 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Concur completely. I'd love a class change token. Those who prefer to simply start an additional character can still do so - complete with the joys of mount training, leveling up psijic, excavation, rapport for all companions. . . .PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo2 -
LadyLavina✭✭✭✭✭
✭The reason this will probably never happen boils down to it meaning less money for ZOS from the sale of other crown items (the other tokens, as a probable example)PC - NA @LadyLavina 1800+ CP PvP Tank and PvP Healer0
