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Do you think a concept based on adding conditioned stats to sets could help build diversity?
NoticeMeArkay
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Greetings!
I've had this brief idea a while ago but I wrote it down as a "probably dumb idea" and therefore never done the math behind the theory.
But I can't get it out of my head for now and I'd like to see the opinion of players who are very accustom with the ingame stat mechanics.
What if we'd add specific stat classes to sets, depending on their source?
Personally, I'd add a combat-related stat bonus to overland and dungeon/trial sets (I'll get to those later), while craftable sets come with a non-combat related bonus or offer to choose between a minor combat-related bonus and a major non-combat related bonus for craftable DLC sets f.e.
Let the usage of those boni be related to a race or class specific condition and I think we could actually bring in some build diversity into the game that allows players to either even out weaknesses connected to their choses races in relation to their class or enhance their chosen setup further to find themselves on a similar damage level as other combinations without completely dropping their wishes when creating their characters.
I know, that sounds complicated, so let me explain:
Personally, I'd add a minor combat-related stat bonus to overland sets (Condition: race) and a major one to dungeon and trial sets (Condition: Class) (I'll get to those later), while craftable sets come with a non-combat related bonus or offer to choose between a minor combat-related bonus and a major non-combat related bonus for craftable DLC sets f.e. (No condition, just crafting.)
Overland sets: The base game holds 5 zones for each faction to cover as much about the 9 (10) races as possible. The only people who are basically coming short here are imperials but I'll get to them later. Luckily, every overland set in the base game is connected to one specific race. And not just in the base game! DLC zones also come with new overland sets which are always either connected to the race/s inhabiting that specific zone or a guest faction, mostly build by yet another race, that the player may encounter there!
We could take overland sets and add a race specific stat to each of them, depending on which race they are connected to chosen by the zone they drop in. F.e. If we took the set "Sword-Singer" from the Alik'r desert, which is clearly by all means a huge nod towards redguards and their culture (who would have thought, duh), we could add a race specific stat bonus for redguards to this very set. We could add a bonus that enhances the racial passive "Conditioning" and add another bonus of stamina if the set is equipped on a redguard. An increase in max stamina would therefore also increase the damage output and count as a combat-related stat bonus. (Just a wild example to draw the picture here.)
Dungeon/Trial Sets: While slaughtering through thoses masses of newly found enemies with our group, we come into contact with all sorts of classes, played by the enemy and forms of magic cast by them. If you spend 2 minutes to connect the dots, and ignore the slightly lackluster class system in relations to lore in eso for a second, you can point at an enemy and shout: "Hey, that's basically a dragonknight!". - And how often do we find ourselves observing the fighting style of new enemy mobs, casting spells similar to those of our own classes in completely different animations and think: "Man, I'd like to that." - Well, we can't pull out all of these animations at once and include them into the already established class system just like this.
BUT we can easily determine that each dungeon and trial set is either connected to specific enemies casting spells similar to our class or lore-related types of magic which can be shoved into the "Well, that would fit XY most out of all the classes"-corner.
F.e. If we took the set "Caluurion's Legacy" and determined that it's a set fitting for a necromancer for various reasons, we could add a major combat-related stat bonus for necromancers to it.
We could connect it to a class passive or enhance the 5-piece set bonus if worn by an actual necromancer. - Do you see where I'm going with this?
Craftable Sets: Craftable sets are great. Especially for PvP, or so I've heard. And for niche builds especially which serve a purposes outside of combat. Most guild halls are filled with over 100 different crafting tables but are all craftable sets actually being used? How many of them got a thick layer of dust covering their crafting tables?
Maybe we could design collecting attunable stations for guilds more attractive (apart from writs, I mean), by allowing players to add a bonus themselves after crafting a set-related piece.
Now this is were things can go terribly wrong. So I very well understand if this is a bad idea, but:
What if we would allow players to add either a minor combat-related stat or a major non-combat-related stat to a crafted set piece. And they can chose between those two effects, one from each section when craftng. A small example if you will:
F.e.: The set "New Moon Acolythe" allows the player to chose between either 1.) an additional 744 offensive penetration or 2.) +10% additional movement speed when sneaking.
Or, maybe we get funky and replace the non-combat related stat bonus with a weapon related stat bonus. F.e.: 2.) +5% additional damage with 2 equipped daggers. Yes, not just "one-handed weapons, but further specification." (Again: The stats are solely for the purpose of portraying the concept. Don't shoot me, please
)
Craftable sets could serve well to furtherly even out a race+class combinations weaknesses, or maybe even weapon type related weaknesses, or allow them to play further into the structure they've been served upon character creation, because they enjoy the concept they chose right at the beginning.
Honestly, when I chose to play a necromancer, I didn't see myself casting water magic and have my enemies cut themselves on sharp stones this year. Left alone have my staff-wielding berton suddenly handle a greatsword. And I'd really welcome it if I could go back into "playing my chosen concept" by all means next year. My idea isn't meant to force players into following only one concept after chosing their race+class combination, but to allow players who'd rather stick to what they've chosen to not be left behind.
But this is a very rough sketch of a concept and I haven't done the math behind it. Therefore I'd ask players from all corners of the game how they'd view this idea.
What would you add to it? Which problems do you spot on first sight? Please let's have a discussion. Even if it only serves to educate me on stat mechanics in the end.
Thank you for reading. I gotta head out and reach my train to work now. Read y'all later!
I've had this brief idea a while ago but I wrote it down as a "probably dumb idea" and therefore never done the math behind the theory.
But I can't get it out of my head for now and I'd like to see the opinion of players who are very accustom with the ingame stat mechanics.
What if we'd add specific stat classes to sets, depending on their source?
Personally, I'd add a combat-related stat bonus to overland and dungeon/trial sets (I'll get to those later), while craftable sets come with a non-combat related bonus or offer to choose between a minor combat-related bonus and a major non-combat related bonus for craftable DLC sets f.e.
Let the usage of those boni be related to a race or class specific condition and I think we could actually bring in some build diversity into the game that allows players to either even out weaknesses connected to their choses races in relation to their class or enhance their chosen setup further to find themselves on a similar damage level as other combinations without completely dropping their wishes when creating their characters.
I know, that sounds complicated, so let me explain:
Personally, I'd add a minor combat-related stat bonus to overland sets (Condition: race) and a major one to dungeon and trial sets (Condition: Class) (I'll get to those later), while craftable sets come with a non-combat related bonus or offer to choose between a minor combat-related bonus and a major non-combat related bonus for craftable DLC sets f.e. (No condition, just crafting.)
Overland sets: The base game holds 5 zones for each faction to cover as much about the 9 (10) races as possible. The only people who are basically coming short here are imperials but I'll get to them later. Luckily, every overland set in the base game is connected to one specific race. And not just in the base game! DLC zones also come with new overland sets which are always either connected to the race/s inhabiting that specific zone or a guest faction, mostly build by yet another race, that the player may encounter there!
We could take overland sets and add a race specific stat to each of them, depending on which race they are connected to chosen by the zone they drop in. F.e. If we took the set "Sword-Singer" from the Alik'r desert, which is clearly by all means a huge nod towards redguards and their culture (who would have thought, duh), we could add a race specific stat bonus for redguards to this very set. We could add a bonus that enhances the racial passive "Conditioning" and add another bonus of stamina if the set is equipped on a redguard. An increase in max stamina would therefore also increase the damage output and count as a combat-related stat bonus. (Just a wild example to draw the picture here.)
Dungeon/Trial Sets: While slaughtering through thoses masses of newly found enemies with our group, we come into contact with all sorts of classes, played by the enemy and forms of magic cast by them. If you spend 2 minutes to connect the dots, and ignore the slightly lackluster class system in relations to lore in eso for a second, you can point at an enemy and shout: "Hey, that's basically a dragonknight!". - And how often do we find ourselves observing the fighting style of new enemy mobs, casting spells similar to those of our own classes in completely different animations and think: "Man, I'd like to that." - Well, we can't pull out all of these animations at once and include them into the already established class system just like this.
BUT we can easily determine that each dungeon and trial set is either connected to specific enemies casting spells similar to our class or lore-related types of magic which can be shoved into the "Well, that would fit XY most out of all the classes"-corner.
F.e. If we took the set "Caluurion's Legacy" and determined that it's a set fitting for a necromancer for various reasons, we could add a major combat-related stat bonus for necromancers to it.
We could connect it to a class passive or enhance the 5-piece set bonus if worn by an actual necromancer. - Do you see where I'm going with this?
Craftable Sets: Craftable sets are great. Especially for PvP, or so I've heard. And for niche builds especially which serve a purposes outside of combat. Most guild halls are filled with over 100 different crafting tables but are all craftable sets actually being used? How many of them got a thick layer of dust covering their crafting tables?
Maybe we could design collecting attunable stations for guilds more attractive (apart from writs, I mean), by allowing players to add a bonus themselves after crafting a set-related piece.
Now this is were things can go terribly wrong. So I very well understand if this is a bad idea, but:
What if we would allow players to add either a minor combat-related stat or a major non-combat-related stat to a crafted set piece. And they can chose between those two effects, one from each section when craftng. A small example if you will:
F.e.: The set "New Moon Acolythe" allows the player to chose between either 1.) an additional 744 offensive penetration or 2.) +10% additional movement speed when sneaking.
Or, maybe we get funky and replace the non-combat related stat bonus with a weapon related stat bonus. F.e.: 2.) +5% additional damage with 2 equipped daggers. Yes, not just "one-handed weapons, but further specification." (Again: The stats are solely for the purpose of portraying the concept. Don't shoot me, please
)Craftable sets could serve well to furtherly even out a race+class combinations weaknesses, or maybe even weapon type related weaknesses, or allow them to play further into the structure they've been served upon character creation, because they enjoy the concept they chose right at the beginning.
Honestly, when I chose to play a necromancer, I didn't see myself casting water magic and have my enemies cut themselves on sharp stones this year. Left alone have my staff-wielding berton suddenly handle a greatsword. And I'd really welcome it if I could go back into "playing my chosen concept" by all means next year. My idea isn't meant to force players into following only one concept after chosing their race+class combination, but to allow players who'd rather stick to what they've chosen to not be left behind.
But this is a very rough sketch of a concept and I haven't done the math behind it. Therefore I'd ask players from all corners of the game how they'd view this idea.
What would you add to it? Which problems do you spot on first sight? Please let's have a discussion. Even if it only serves to educate me on stat mechanics in the end.
Thank you for reading. I gotta head out and reach my train to work now. Read y'all later!
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The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭NoticeMeArkay wrote: »Greetings!F.e. If we took the set "Caluurion's Legacy" and determined that it's a set fitting for a necromancer for various reasons, we could add a major combat-related stat bonus for necromancers to it.
We could connect it to a class passive or enhance the 5-piece set bonus if worn by an actual necromancer. - Do you see where I'm going with this?
Yeah, in a direction that I’m opposed to for the reason that all sets should be great on all classes, if built into them. A change like this would pigeon people into specific sets even more than the game already does.
Set imbalance is a real issue that I believe the balance team haven’t touched yet, as they are focused on standardizing abilities first, only stopping to bandaid fix certain set outliers that are egregiously offending.
There’s a massive talk about an Overland update coming next year, and the hopes are that when this update drops, they will finally revisit the sets they introduced with One Tamriel, as they would have to be one of the major drives for people to get back into that content from years ago.
I’ve also noticed you talking about Necromancer needing love, it does, but not through sets, through the class itself, several abilities are underperforming, as they are on Sorcerer too.
I’ve proposed a potential solution to this on a different forum, feel free to stop by and leave your opinion.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/624025/conjured-pet-reworks#latest1 -
Nihilr✭✭✭No, because conditionary sets and checks are more load on the servers and our PCs. It's why many conditionary sets were changed to "accumulating counters" styles. Counters are easier on processors than "Check every 1 second for x condition to be true"1 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No thanksPC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
NoticeMeArkay✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, what can I say. Thread closed for good. If anybody needs me, I'll be wandering the endless archives.0